18 replies to this topic

[Luminosity]

HSBC imposes restrictions on large cash withdrawals

24 January 2014

By Bob Howard Reporter, Money Box, BBC

Some HSBC customers have been prevented from withdrawing large amounts of cash because they could not provide evidence of why they wanted it, the BBC has learnt. Listeners have told Radio 4's Money Box they were stopped from withdrawing amounts ranging from 5,000 to 10,000. HSBC admitted it has not informed customers of the change in policy, which was implemented in November.
The bank says it has now changed its guidance to staff.

Stephen Cotton went to his local HSBC branch this month to withdraw 7,000 pounds from his instant access savings account to pay back a loan from his mother. A year before, he had withdrawn a larger sum in cash from HSBC without a problem. But this time it was different, as he told Money Box: "When we presented them with the withdrawal slip, they declined to give us the money because we could not provide them with a satisfactory explanation for what the money was for. They wanted a letter from the person involved.

Mr. Cotton says the staff refused to tell him how much he could have: "So I wrote out a few slips. I said, 'Can I have 5,000 pounds?' They said no. I said, 'Can I have 4,000 pounds?' They said no. And then I wrote one out for 3,000 pounds and they said, 'OK, we'll give you that.' "
He asked if he could return later that day to withdraw another 3,000 pounds, but he was told he could not do the same thing twice in one day.

Peter from Wiltshire, who wanted his surname withheld, had a similar experience. He wanted to take out 10 000 pounds cash from HSBC, some to pay to his sons and some to fund his long-haul travel plans. Peter phoned up the day before to give HSBC notice and everything seemed to be fine. The next day he got a call from his local branch asking him to pay his sons via a bank payment and to provide booking receipts for his holidays. Peter did not have any booking receipts to show. The following day he spoke to HSBC again and this time, having examined his account, it said he could withdraw the 10,000 . . .

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-25861717

According to Wikipedia, HSBC is one of the largest banks in the world.

[Layberinthius]

A common practice here in Australia.

[Jeoshua]

In America, it's over $15,000. Pretty similar to that 10,000 GBP figure there. What do you think banks keep in their vaults, money?

[methuselah67]

Sounds like a good way to prevent a rush on the bank before it collapses.  Just another reason to scrap it all and start over.  

 

Show me a happy citizen and I will show you one that is ill informed.

[niner]

Sounds like a good way to prevent a rush on the bank before it collapses.  Just another reason to scrap it all and start over.  

 

Show me a happy citizen and I will show you one that is ill informed.

 

The vast majority of financial transactions are electronic, not cash in the form of paper bills.  The bank was not restricting electronic transactions, it was trying to avoid having to stock its branches with large quantities of paper cash in case some nut dropped in asking them to fill up his suitcase.  Funny you should mention people being ill informed, because this story is popular among ill informed conspiracy theorists, the guys who are building bunkers in the wilderness while their stores of gold and silver decline in value.

 

There's very likely an anti-drug / anti-terror component to this as well, since cash is harder to trace.

[methuselah67]

Haha, I love it when people throw that word around like it is a unicorn or something.  Didn't we just have major financial institutions near collapse due to mismanagement?

 

I would be curious to know how many people know that the Federal Reserve is not part of the government but a private corporation owned by outside interests.

[Luminosity]

Nut job conspiracy theorists like people who think the government would collect all your phone calls, emails, and texts?    

 

See:  "NSA Spying: Still Think I'm a Wack Job" 

http://www.longecity...ob/#entry665362

 

I'm sure, based on their past history, that the banking industry would never do anything wrong.

 

Chinese medicine can help with temperament problems.   

Edited by Luminosity, 29 May 2014 - 06:04 AM.

[niner]

Haha, I love it when people throw that word around like it is a unicorn or something.  Didn't we just have major financial institutions near collapse due to mismanagement?

 

I would be curious to know how many people know that the Federal Reserve is not part of the government but a private corporation owned by outside interests.

 

Which word, "ill informed"?  "Conspiracy theorist"?  "Suitcase"?  We just had major financial institutions near collapse for a lot of reasons, one of which was a mistaken belief that corporations left to their own devices would "police themselves".   I think every financial institution that is too big to fail is too big to exist, and should be broken up.  I don't think any financier is too big to jail.  There's no reason not to put some CEOs in stripes, other than the fact that they pay for all those attack ads that are needed to get stupid people to vote for the wrong person.   I'm probably on the same side of these issues as you and Lumosity, except I like to base my opinions on the facts rather than a collection of ill-informed conspiracy theories.

 

The Fed is not "a private corporation owned by outside interests".   Here's an explanation, there's also an extensive article on the Fed in wikipedia.

[methuselah67]

I was referring to conspiracy.  The word has been demonized by the 'owned' media to become synonymous with 'nut job', crazy, etc.

 

But as in the article you referenced, it is independent in the government, but really this just word play.  As far as congressional oversight, really, these are the same nitwits that have, in the case of Mitch McConnell, have voted 6 times to give himself a raise.  That is like having the fox guard the hen house.

 

As far as the banking mess, Iceland did the right thing.  We ran the other direction.   

Edited by methuselah67, 29 May 2014 - 01:55 PM.

[niner]

Nut job conspiracy theorists like people who think the government would collect all your phone calls, emails, and texts?    

 

See:  "NSA Spying: Still Think I'm a Wack Job" 

http://www.longecity...ob/#entry665362

 

I'm sure, based on their past history, that the banking industry would never do anything wrong.

 

This has nothing to do with the NSA or the financial crisis.  The banking industry is full of politically connected thieves, but the fact that a bank puts restrictions on large untraceable cash withdrawals is not wrong, nor is it a sign of anything wrong with the bank.  Why mess with stupid stuff like this when Goldman Sachs is using elaborate high speed trading schemes to front-run the people trading your 401k account, thus legally skimming profit from you?

[methuselah67]

I am not sure where you are coming from niner.  The US banking industry is BUILT on conspiracy.  You stated 'politically connected theives', um, that is how conspiracies get started.  Criminals conspiring to commit more crimes.  It is my belief that the limit will only get lower.

 

Simply put, is it my money?  Yes or no?  Why should they be able to limit my access to it?  Doesn't matter what the reasoning is, it is still my money.  If I want to use it to light my grill or sleep in it, my call not theirs.  They are a business, not my babysitter.  If I want to start passing out every dollar I have to everyone I meet, just giving it away willy-nilly.  That is my right!

[Brafarality]

I am not sure where you are coming from niner.  The US banking industry is BUILT on conspiracy.  You stated 'politically connected theives', um, that is how conspiracies get started.  Criminals conspiring to commit more crimes.  It is my belief that the limit will only get lower.

 

Simply put, is it my money?  Yes or no?  Why should they be able to limit my access to it?  Doesn't matter what the reasoning is, it is still my money.  If I want to use it to light my grill or sleep in it, my call not theirs.  They are a business, not my babysitter.  If I want to start passing out every dollar I have to everyone I meet, just giving it away willy-nilly.  That is my right!

Agree 100%. Something about this is troubling. But, the bank will probably just say that displeased patrons can take their accounts and business elsewhere, which leads to a search for banks that do not do this. Not sure. Never made such a large withdrawal! In the unlikely event I have that much in my account, I'll maybe try and see what happens.

[methuselah67]

Ahh, there in lies the heart of the matter.  Here in the states, who oversees the banks?  The not so 'Federal' Reserve.  

 

As far as making such a large withdrawal, I have never had that much in the bank at one time!  

 

From what I understand they will just tell you no.  But if you were fortunate enough to hit the lottery, you may be able to get around that for a not so small fee.  The real golden rule -  He who has the gold makes the rules.

[niner]

Would it make you guys feel better if the bank warned you up front that large CASH withdrawals would be subject to scrutiny?  You seem to be confusing cash with money here.  I can transfer large sums of money between accounts at the click of a mouse.   If I shuffled into my financial institution's facility acting like a drug dealer, I'd expect to be questioned.   Large sums of cash are a rather silly thing to be using in this day and age.  Smart people don't keep much money in community banks; they go where interest rates are better, like an internet bank, or they're in more lucrative markets.

[Luminosity]

Well, said, Methuselah.

 

Niner, you're drawing lines that puzzle other people.  You're also not seeing connections that I think are plain to see, like how my statements relate to the subject matter.    

 

"The banking industry is full of politically connected thieves, but the fact that a bank puts restrictions on large untraceable cash withdrawals is not wrong, nor is it a sign of anything wrong with the bank.  Why mess with stupid stuff like this when Goldman Sachs is using elaborate high speed trading schemes to front-run the people trading your 401k account, thus legally skimming profit from you?

 -- Niner    emphasis added

 

Most people in America have $1,000 or less in savings, Niner, so it's definitely not their 401k's you're referring to.  I think it's been amply shown here how that bank's behavior is shady and alarming.  You may transfer your money by computer, but your gardener probably doesn't.  There are plenty of non-drug dealers who don't think cash is shady.  As the government grows increasingly desperate and irresponsible, they are doing things like seizing tax refunds on flimsy pretexts.  They are readying themselves to further tax real estate transactions to fund "Obamacare."  More and more respectable people are avoiding government involvement in their financial lives, if they can.  

 

Sometimes I think you just disagree with my posts to be disagreeable.  You vaunt yourself up as the voice of authority, condemning frivolous nonsense.  We've seen on this thread how true that is or is not.  If your posts lack a response from me in the future, that could be why.   

 

Edited by Luminosity, 05 June 2014 - 06:50 AM.

[niner]

Most people in America have $1,000 or less in savings, Niner, so it's definitely not their 401k's you're referring to.  I think it's been amply shown here how that bank's behavior is shady and alarming.  You may transfer your money by computer, but your gardener probably doesn't.  There are plenty of non-drug dealers who don't think cash is shady.  As the government grows increasingly desperate and irresponsible, they are doing things like seizing tax refunds on flimsy pretexts.  They are readying themselves to further tax real estate transactions to fund "Obamacare."  More and more respectable people are avoiding government involvement in their financial lives, if they can.

The Median net worth of American households as of 2011 was $68,828. As you know, the median means half have more and half have less. Subtracting home equity, the median financial wealth was about $17,000. So in fact most Americans households have a hell of a lot more than $1000, and the level of stock ownership is much higher than you seem to think. It hasn't been shown here that bank behavior is shady and alarming, unless you're a drug dealer.  We both agree that banks do things that are wrong, but this just isn't one of them.

Luminosity, if my gardener (assuming I had one) were to be making ten thousand dollar cash withdrawals, it would be time for him or her to learn how to use the financial system.  Maybe it's time for you and your Tea Party pals to learn something about it too.  Something factual, that is, rather than the conspiracy theories you seem to favor.

[PWAIN]

I'm pretty sure net worth includes assets - family car, some furniture, clothes....not all realisable at their marked value - usually quoted at replacement cost. Seriously, these are stats, only relevant with proper analysis.

[Luminosity]

O.K., let's take your figures, the median financial holding of $17,000 isn't much at all.  Medians are misleading because you have averaged out the rich and the poor creating a mythical hybrid. The mean is a better measure, the amount the largest number of people have.  

 

The rest of it has been addressed earlier.      

[niner]

O.K., let's take your figures, the median financial holding of $17,000 isn't much at all.  Medians are misleading because you have averaged out the rich and the poor creating a mythical hybrid. The mean is a better measure, the amount the largest number of people have.

Much confusion here. I defined the median in my last post. You're confusing it with the mean. The thing you're calling the mean is actually the mode. It's hard to distill something like wealth distribution into a single number without being misleading, but I think the median is the best thing we have.

Maybe we should have a discussion about distribution of wealth, a much much more serious problem than restriction of cash withdrawals.