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CL-994: capable of removing traumatic memories and persisting anxiety? (And resulting persistent attention problems?)

cl-994 epigenetic anxiety disorder trauma ptsd memory add group buy anxiety

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#241 Junipersun

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 05:21 AM

As someone with OCD, I'm wondering if it'd be more effective to exterminate our fear of superstition in general rather than targeting specific triggers while on an HDACi. Would that be efficient?

 

Perhaps it'd address many problems at once, in theory it'd possibly be attacking the nature of the disorder itself?

 

The problem is: I don't see a viable way to do exposure therapy with some abstract idea like "the fear of superstition". It's much more simple and I think more effective to target the different triggers. That said, you can work with CBT on something more general like your fear of superstition, and I'd recommend to do so. 


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#242 tolerant

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 08:21 AM

Has anyone been able to roughly gauge bioavailability of oral/sublingual/intranasal administration, and also the differences between the onset of action with these three routes?

 

Another question I have is this: does it make you feel "like a kid again" while you're on it, or does that feeling last. That is, do you find that you're more resilient to stress in general well after after you have taken a dose?


Edited by tolerant, 29 November 2016 - 08:40 AM.


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#243 musicman4534

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 05:31 PM

As someone with OCD, I'm wondering if it'd be more effective to exterminate our fear of superstition in general rather than targeting specific triggers while on an HDACi. Would that be efficient?

 

Perhaps it'd address many problems at once, in theory it'd possibly be attacking the nature of the disorder itself?

 

 

This is an interesting subject and something I thought a lot about before trying vorinostat and also since I've tried it. I focused on things like this for my first vorinostat session, which I based around meditations on various triggers, fears and anxieties I had, both specific and non-specific. Some of the specific ones are based on general fears and anxieties I have as well. It seems that visualizing situations that would normally bring up my general anxiety helped combat the basic problem, and that there was indeed overlap between situations later on. Some of the situations I visualized were not even real, but made up specifically to put myself into a situation where my basic, deep-seated fears would have to surface and be overcome. I've done this before, but the fears always resurface. Trying this while on vorinostat, however, let them stick, and the following days were markedly different (and still are). It seems that if you've identified a basic fear or anxiety, like the fear if responsibility, or power, then you can indeed focus on these things and aim at the basic problem, which will overlap into a multitude of situations. However, if you haven't fully identified the root problem, them I believe vorinostat could allow you to focus on specific triggers at first, scraping away the top layer of fear/anxiety to then allow you to more easily see deeper and more basic issues in fear and anxiety. It is because of these things that I believe it is often necessary to go through several vorinostat sessions to allow a thorough evening out of one's self and getting to the deeper parts of one's fears and anxieties.

 

Has anyone been able to roughly gauge bioavailability of oral/sublingual/intranasal administration, and also the differences between the onset of action with these three routes?

 

Another question I have is this: does it make you feel "like a kid again" while you're on it, or does that feeling last. That is, do you find that you're more resilient to stress in general well after after you have taken a dose?

 

For me, the child-like feeling of learning exists only during administration, as this is when vorinostat is able to directly affect learning, but also, and neuralis said this also, it seems that after three vorinostat sessions I was almost primed to be able to go more into that state without vorinostat, and, in addition, I felt like I had more room to think and be myself with some of my fears and anxieties gone.



#244 WillMatte

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 12:25 AM

I dunno, something is suspicious about the first-hand accounts on this thread. Honestly, what you guys are saying sounds too good to be true, and I suspect mania. If a drug worked as well as you guys are describing there would be MUCH more information available. Where are people buying this drug?


Does vorinostat have any acute psychoactive (anxiolytic specifically) effects?



#245 Lunast

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 12:33 AM

I dunno, something is suspicious about the first-hand accounts on this thread. Honestly, what you guys are saying sounds too good to be true, and I suspect mania. If a drug worked as well as you guys are describing there would be MUCH more information available. Where are people buying this drug?

Does vorinostat have any acute psychoactive (anxiolytic specifically) effects?


Hey WillMatte,

I feel the need to answer this post, directly. At the risk of losing credibility in this thread, let me start out by saying that I am diagnosed type 2 bipolar. I have had notable manias throughout my life, followed by severe, soul crushing depressions where I had no desire to go on living.
I am in my mid-thirties and have had enough experience with this illness to know what mania and/or hypomania feel like. What Vorinostat has helped bring into my life is quite milder than that. I can feel my thoughts sometimes naturally climbing into a manic manner, but I feel able to reign them back into reality. This sounds insane but it almost seems that I'm able to regulate the exitablility of the glutamate in my brain by Just realizing that it is happening again and allowing my brain to calm down.
I realize that this may sound manic. And I am not %100 certain that is not some sort of mania. But I will say that it surely doesn't feel like what I have experienced in the past.
Now, I'm not saying that Vorinostat is any type of cure-all Or "miracle" medicine. But I can say that since it's administration a few times, I am able to look people in the eye when they are speaking to me (something I haven't been able to do in years), rather than dissociatimg and running away. And I have incredibly less ammounts of overall life anxiety. At least one other person that has tried Vorinostat I know for a fact has received similar benefit.

The reason that there isn't a ton of definitive information on Vorinostat's off-label benefits is because they are still considered such. Research is being done on the compound and it's potential helpfulness in trauma therapy. Recovery from anxiety that comes from alcoholic abstinence. And there is even a doctor researching the mood stabilizing qualities of HDAC inhibitors in mood disorders such as bipolar.

This compound hasn't cured me. And I'm still quite a damaged person. But somehow it has helped me become less self-punishing of my faults and more accepting.

As far as where to buy Vorinostat, I don't feel the most qualified to suggest. Its not my place to direct you to anyone. But hang around this thread and maybe someone will come to you.

I'm not as intelligent as some of these other folks on here. But would be glad to help with answering any questions that I can.

Edited by Lunast, 30 November 2016 - 01:10 AM.

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#246 tolerant

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 12:38 AM

I dunno, something is suspicious about the first-hand accounts on this thread. Honestly, what you guys are saying sounds too good to be true, and I suspect mania. If a drug worked as well as you guys are describing there would be MUCH more information available. Where are people buying this drug?


Does vorinostat have any acute psychoactive (anxiolytic specifically) effects?

 

I think I can sort of hear what you and gedanken are saying. 

 

I think it's not so much suspicious, but subtle and intricate. I guess both you and I would be more comfortable if people would actually come out and say something like "I had anxiety/OCD/PTSD for this long, and after trying one hundred substances, I have found the one that works for me by calming me down". The closest we have is neuralis saying that for the majority of fears, no psychological work is required -- the drug just works. Tree has also speculated that people with generalised anxiety might not have to do any cognitive work. I think both neuralis and musicman, or at least one of them have said that it "shaves the top off the anxiety", so you can then look at everything, including the source of your anxiety, more clearly. I think this is the closest it has come to vorinostat being an "anxiolytic".


Edited by tolerant, 30 November 2016 - 12:41 AM.


#247 WillMatte

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 01:47 AM

 

I dunno, something is suspicious about the first-hand accounts on this thread. Honestly, what you guys are saying sounds too good to be true, and I suspect mania. If a drug worked as well as you guys are describing there would be MUCH more information available. Where are people buying this drug?


Does vorinostat have any acute psychoactive (anxiolytic specifically) effects?

 

I think I can sort of hear what you and gedanken are saying. 

 

I think it's not so much suspicious, but subtle and intricate. I guess both you and I would be more comfortable if people would actually come out and say something like "I had anxiety/OCD/PTSD for this long, and after trying one hundred substances, I have found the one that works for me by calming me down". The closest we have is neuralis saying that for the majority of fears, no psychological work is required -- the drug just works. Tree has also speculated that people with generalised anxiety might not have to do any cognitive work. I think both neuralis and musicman, or at least one of them have said that it "shaves the top off the anxiety", so you can then look at everything, including the source of your anxiety, more clearly. I think this is the closest it has come to vorinostat being an "anxiolytic".

 

 

I'm sorry, but the way you wrote this is somewhat hard to follow. Are you saying that Vorinostat has no proven acute anxiolytic effects, and the only evidence for such effects are anecdotal reports from two members on this forum?

 

This is problematic because if the drug has no anxiolytic effects, and only works by re-organizing memories, it would be just as likely (if not more likely) to reinforce a phobia than cure it. Why is no one focusing on the mechanism of action Vorinostat is using to cause the acute anxiolytic effects these posters claim to feel during CBT? That should be the first question anyone would ask because if the effects these guys are describing are real, Vorinostat would be the most efficacious anxiolytic known to man. 

 

Powerful research chemicals should be analyzed more responsibly than what I am seeing here. Things are simply not adding up on this thread, and I can't shake the suspicion that what I am reading on this thread is a combination of mania and BS.



#248 Lunast

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 02:14 AM

I dunno, something is suspicious about the first-hand accounts on this thread. Honestly, what you guys are saying sounds too good to be true, and I suspect mania. If a drug worked as well as you guys are describing there would be MUCH more information available. Where are people buying this drug?

Does vorinostat have any acute psychoactive (anxiolytic specifically) effects?


I think I can sort of hear what you and gedanken are saying.

I think it's not so much suspicious, but subtle and intricate. I guess both you and I would be more comfortable if people would actually come out and say something like "I had anxiety/OCD/PTSD for this long, and after trying one hundred substances, I have found the one that works for me by calming me down". The closest we have is neuralis saying that for the majority of fears, no psychological work is required -- the drug just works. Tree has also speculated that people with generalised anxiety might not have to do any cognitive work. I think both neuralis and musicman, or at least one of them have said that it "shaves the top off the anxiety", so you can then look at everything, including the source of your anxiety, more clearly. I think this is the closest it has come to vorinostat being an "anxiolytic".

I'm sorry, but the way you wrote this is somewhat hard to follow. Are you saying that Vorinostat has no proven acute anxiolytic effects, and the only evidence for such effects are anecdotal reports from two members on this forum?

This is problematic because if the drug has no anxiolytic effects, and only works by re-organizing memories, it would be just as likely (if not more likely) to reinforce a phobia than cure it. Why is no one focusing on the mechanism of action Vorinostat is using to cause the acute anxiolytic effects these posters claim to feel during CBT? That should be the first question anyone would ask because if the effects these guys are describing are real, Vorinostat would be the most efficacious anxiolytic known to man.

Powerful research chemicals should be analyzed more responsibly than what I am seeing here. Things are simply not adding up on this thread, and I can't shake the suspicion that what I am reading on this thread is a combination of mania and BS.


#249 tolerant

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 02:25 AM

Lunast,

 

May I ask you, and other people who have tried it: has vorinostat in any way helped you or anyone you know with depression, or is it only for anxiety/mania?



#250 Lunast

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 02:40 AM

Lunast,

May I ask you, and other people who have tried it: has vorinostat in any way helped you or anyone you know with depression, or is it only for anxiety/mania?


It's been a long, helacious crawl out of this last depression and I've used all types of weapons against it, not the least of these being a dedicated regime of aerobic exercise. It's difficult to pin down what ultimately relieved my depression. And I don't know that its removal is owed to one, singular thing So, I'm not sure if Vorinostat has had any direct antidepressant effect or if it would on anyone else. But I can state the obvious response that depression and anxiety often go hand in hand. If the ordinary motions of daily life did not feel so burdened by anxiety and the discouragement it brings, one could be freer to connect in a positive way.

#251 gedanken

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 04:47 AM

 

As someone with OCD, I'm wondering if it'd be more effective to exterminate our fear of superstition in general rather than targeting specific triggers while on an HDACi. Would that be efficient?

 

Perhaps it'd address many problems at once, in theory it'd possibly be attacking the nature of the disorder itself?

 

 

This is an interesting subject and something I thought a lot about before trying vorinostat and also since I've tried it. I focused on things like this for my first vorinostat session, which I based around meditations on various triggers, fears and anxieties I had, both specific and non-specific. Some of the specific ones are based on general fears and anxieties I have as well. It seems that visualizing situations that would normally bring up my general anxiety helped combat the basic problem, and that there was indeed overlap between situations later on. Some of the situations I visualized were not even real, but made up specifically to put myself into a situation where my basic, deep-seated fears would have to surface and be overcome. I've done this before, but the fears always resurface. Trying this while on vorinostat, however, let them stick, and the following days were markedly different (and still are). It seems that if you've identified a basic fear or anxiety, like the fear if responsibility, or power, then you can indeed focus on these things and aim at the basic problem, which will overlap into a multitude of situations. However, if you haven't fully identified the root problem, them I believe vorinostat could allow you to focus on specific triggers at first, scraping away the top layer of fear/anxiety to then allow you to more easily see deeper and more basic issues in fear and anxiety. It is because of these things that I believe it is often necessary to go through several vorinostat sessions to allow a thorough evening out of one's self and getting to the deeper parts of one's fears and anxieties. 

 

 

 

Man, I need to completely apologize, what I meant to say in my original post was that *while* on an HDACi like vorinostat if it'd be more effective to target the root problems of OCD vs only attacking the specific triggers (while also on vorinostat). I really blundered the punctuation on that one, badly. You answered the question I intended to ask regardless, nice!  Again, apologies and appreciate the response.

I'd like to add, that's one of the primary reasons I had for jumping in the group buy for this substance. I've been meditating for over a year now and had a realization that while thoughts are major part of the problem, there are those "primal pulls/instincts/responses" that trigger an anxiety response which meditation just doesn't get to, even after rationalizing things and knowing it's just a thought. Pretty much the fear portion of it. Those are the kind of things I've been interested in addressing for a long time and something that I never thought was possible until reading up on vorinostat and other HDACi.


Edited by gedanken, 30 November 2016 - 04:56 AM.


#252 neuralis

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 06:09 AM

I just wanted to say that I can totally understand how my posts can come off as manic. I am really excited about the things that are happening in my life right now. Vorinostat has helped me, to change myself, for the better, beyond what I ever thought possible. I know what it has done for me and I don't have to prove anything to anyone. 
 
Actually I have decided to stop using Vorinostat all together. I have been healing without it's help for some time now and I see no reason to continue taking it. I have roughly the same amount I've used on myself left and I will keep it for one another person. 
 
Also this will most likely be my last post in this thread. I have said everything I have to say about the benefits Vorinostat has brought me. Like I said, I have no need to prove anything to anyone, and I have no intention on beating this dead horse into the ground. Take my experiences for what they are worth. Though I may or may not start a journal on psychological recovery, we will see.
 

Edited by neuralis, 30 November 2016 - 06:11 AM.

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#253 tolerant

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 11:00 PM

 

This is a very interesting topic. I noticed my anxiety really started going out of control after taking methylB12 during a very stressful time thanks to a "great recommendation" by my doctor. This was followed by a situation in which I had a viral heart infection which went undiagnosed until after the fact. My pulse was above 100 all day and night for 3 weeks and my startle reflex was elevated for over a month. Now I am in what appears to be the late stages of adrenal fatigue (3C or D on Dr. Lam's scale if you buy into that sort of thing), and I have fear conditioning to so goddamn many stimuli-- including the basic idea of trying to accomplish anything.

So, uh, yeah, if I took this or say high dose NaButyrate for a few weeks in conjunction with some potent anxiolytics while trying to live my life and experience a bunch of stuff that now makes me anxious, do you think it might work?

I am also concerned about the viral reactivation issue.... hmmm... CMX001 group buy?

 

No, I don't think this would work. Even if NaButyrate can do the trick, you simply can't take potent anxiolytics in your exposure training if you want to experience fear extinction.

 

Maybe I undstand what your plan was: If you remember the fearful memory under the influence of anxiolytics, your brain might learn "Hey, there is the memory, I have no fear - everything is safe - so anxiety is bullshit in that case". Or do you want to use anxiolytics to get in situations you'd be too scared for otherwise?

 

The fearful memory must be activated - this gives you a timeframe in which modification of that memory can take place. But as far as I know, anxiolytics prevent an adequate activation of the fear memory, which would make extinction or modification during reconsolidation impossible. It seems like you actually NEED to feel the anxiety that comes with the memory. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I've been thinking about this. If your anxiety is totally out of control, taking something for it would not prevent the fearful memory from being reactivated and, logically, would increase the possibility of extinction. However, it may also induce tolerance to the anxiolytic -- see the studies I've been posting in this thread.



#254 tolerant

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 11:24 PM

I've been doing pretty well on a combo of cal/mag butyrate, high potency CBD oil, and 1.5 mg c60oo. My long term memory has been firing like nuts, though that might be due to some other stuff I'm going through.

 

For the purposes of HDAC inhibition, doesn't it have to be Sodium Butyrate, or will Calcium/Magnesium Butyrate do just as well?



#255 musicman4534

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 04:37 PM

Sorry I haven't been active in this thread lately, I've been busy.

 

 

I dunno, something is suspicious about the first-hand accounts on this thread. Honestly, what you guys are saying sounds too good to be true, and I suspect mania. If a drug worked as well as you guys are describing there would be MUCH more information available. Where are people buying this drug?


Does vorinostat have any acute psychoactive (anxiolytic specifically) effects?

 

 

WillMatte, and anyone else with basic questions about the effects of HDAC inhibitors and how they work, please read my HDAC introduction article on Reddit and the studies I link to from there, and take a look at the studies in the HDAC discussion thread to first familiarize yourself with HDAC inhibitors before disrespectfully jumping to claiming mania, etcetera is the cause of these experience reports. HDAC inhibition's use for its mental effects is a very new field of research with the bulk of research taking place within the last decade, it is brand new to the nootropics and Longecity communities, there is a lot of information on it, and the field of research is still quickly growing. It is true that the experience reports in this thread are simply single anecdotes and do not hold much weight research-wise, but it is also important to realize that HDAC inhibition is a very unique mechanism of action that causes very unique and powerful effects. HDAC inhibition works differently than any other kind of compound we see on Longecity. It does not directly affect neurotransmitters, or anything upstream of actual DNA transcription in the cell for that matter, nor does it bind directly with DNA. It holds open transcription for a bit longer than normal after HAT opens it by blocking a bit of HDAC, which is what closes transcription after HAT opens it. Again, to save from making this post needlessly long and redundant, anyone wanting to find out why the experience reports surrounding HDAC inhibitors are so unique, please start by reading what I link to above.

 

We also want to start with the studies to prevent vorinostat from being blown up into a magical, cure-all compound, and keep to what is shown in the studies until we have a larger amount of anecdotes surrounding its more subtle and specific effects. The main ones are fear extinction, long-term memory enhancement, child-like learning abilities, and addiction and addictive behavior cessation. These are the more well studied subjects. Anxiety and depression are also beginning to be touched on by research.

 

Evan



#256 musicman4534

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 05:17 PM

It is overall important to remember that, evolutionarily, it is very hard to continue to change habits, especially ones surrounding danger, fear, anxiety, as we get older like a child can. Fears, anxieties, habits, addictions, even subconscious ones, specifically get engrained in our brains through the purposeful strengthening of neural pathways to protect us from danger over time, and studies on HDAC inhibition and PTSD show that there are some forms of fear and anxiety that can persist through any amount of clinical or exposure therapy. For some fears, they are so engrained that they will always resurface and there will be a relapse no matter what. This is why the most common "cure" for a lot of these issues is medicine that blunts emotions (propranolol), especially negative ones, or pushes neurotransmission associated with positive thought (increase serotonin). One can often times even see that this fear or anxiety doesn't make sense, but the feeling and memory persist nevertheless. This is where HDAC inhibition comes in. It is an actual cure, due to it strengthening the memories being formed in the present, allowing us to finally overcome past fears and reach new horizons mentally. This happens, from the point of view of our consciousness, instantaneously and in the background. It feels as though the anxiety has just disappeared, but what really happened was the present moment was put in priority, giving you a "blank slate" to work with. It does not dull any emotions, it simply puts priority on the present. Thought and action that was previously blocked by the built up fears/anxieties in us are now recorded stronger than the fear memories and are open to us to see, use, and grow from. Feelings of calm, happiness, intrigue, etcetera are no longer thwarted by the old fear that had built up, and can be felt again. When you read the studies and see how the mechanism of action works, you see that when neuralis says the anxiety was all of a sudden gone and he could actually think about the problem, learn and grow by himself, that he is literally describing the way in which HDAC inhibition's mechanism works. It works not through blunting, or changing, but through enhancing memory in a unique way, which levels the playing field. Please read the links above in my last post to delve more into this.

 

To change the subject a bit, HDAC inhibitors have been shown to affect memory and fear to different degrees depending on their combination of HDAC protein inhibition. As in, depending on how vorinostat specifically inhibits HDAC1, 2, 3, etc. it will affect long-term memory more, or addiction more, or fear extinction more, while having at least a small affect on all of these things, as they are all connected. In my few experiences I didn't get a grasp on this, mainly because I didn't know as much as I know now about HDAC inhibitors, but has anyone that has taken vorinostat noticed its memory-enhancing effects? They have been studied. This is something I wish to explore more with my next batch, because HDAC 1, 2, 3, and 6, the HDACs vorinostat mainly targets, are highly implicated not just in fear extinction but in memory formation and learning, allowing us to theoretically learn a language or instrument as a child could!

 

Concerning butyrate, I looked this up when I was exploring all the different HDAC inhibitors and making sure vorinostat was the one I wanted to go with, butyrate is an HDAC inhibitor, but a weaker one, and it also has many other effects other than HDAC inhibition, making it hard to take a high enough dose to get the effects we're exactly looking for without its other effects giving us weird side-effects. It would be beneficial to supplement, as it is used by our gut and body (it is actually produced by our gut bacteria), but we won't be able to get the clinical effects seen in the studies as easily from butyrate, especially the fear extinction. There are a good bit of studies on butyrate and learning, however, and since it is a weaker HDAC inhibitor you can take it daily, so I'd definitely recommend supplementing it or supplementing resistant starch to increase butyrate day-to-day or for when you need to get a little boost while studying. Metformin also increases butyrate by affecting our gut bacteria if anyone is interested in that. I've been taking metformin for a couple weeks now and notice a sort of clarity of mind, similar to what I saw with intranasal insulin but more subtle yet more wholesome. I should start a metformin thread, actually, because there's a lot of interesting studies with it... don't want to clog this thread with it lol.



#257 musicman4534

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 09:10 PM

 

 

This is a very interesting topic. I noticed my anxiety really started going out of control after taking methylB12 during a very stressful time thanks to a "great recommendation" by my doctor. This was followed by a situation in which I had a viral heart infection which went undiagnosed until after the fact. My pulse was above 100 all day and night for 3 weeks and my startle reflex was elevated for over a month. Now I am in what appears to be the late stages of adrenal fatigue (3C or D on Dr. Lam's scale if you buy into that sort of thing), and I have fear conditioning to so goddamn many stimuli-- including the basic idea of trying to accomplish anything.

So, uh, yeah, if I took this or say high dose NaButyrate for a few weeks in conjunction with some potent anxiolytics while trying to live my life and experience a bunch of stuff that now makes me anxious, do you think it might work?

I am also concerned about the viral reactivation issue.... hmmm... CMX001 group buy?

 

No, I don't think this would work. Even if NaButyrate can do the trick, you simply can't take potent anxiolytics in your exposure training if you want to experience fear extinction.

 

Maybe I undstand what your plan was: If you remember the fearful memory under the influence of anxiolytics, your brain might learn "Hey, there is the memory, I have no fear - everything is safe - so anxiety is bullshit in that case". Or do you want to use anxiolytics to get in situations you'd be too scared for otherwise?

 

The fearful memory must be activated - this gives you a timeframe in which modification of that memory can take place. But as far as I know, anxiolytics prevent an adequate activation of the fear memory, which would make extinction or modification during reconsolidation impossible. It seems like you actually NEED to feel the anxiety that comes with the memory. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I've been thinking about this. If your anxiety is totally out of control, taking something for it would not prevent the fearful memory from being reactivated and, logically, would increase the possibility of extinction. However, it may also induce tolerance to the anxiolytic -- see the studies I've been posting in this thread.

 

 

Yes, since an HDAC inhibitor has a unique method of eradicating fear memories, I think it is most safe to take one's first sessions with an HDAC inhibitor alone, as, like tolerant and others have found out and been saying, HDAC inhibitors interact with conventional anxiolytics in exceptional ways, some of which is not fully understood. This is discussed in the HDAC discussion thread. Tolerant has looked into it as have I, and the idea is to simply bring up a normally fear-causing memory or situation, and the HDAC inhibitor takes care of the rest. We must think about it differently than, say, propranolol or xanax... HDAC inhibitors do not intrinsically change the way you think, blunt any emotion, or forcibly squash feelings for them to pop back up later... they actually change the priority of memories directly, so the less they are messed with while on an HDACi the better. HDACi are not anxiolytic, they are, at their basis, memory enhancers, but unlike any other nootropic or memory enhancer we know.



#258 musicman4534

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 09:19 PM

Very interesting article shared with me by oldmustysad on Reddit.

 

Link to the full PDF below.

 

The potential use of histone deacetylase inhibitors in the treatment of depression

Abstract

Numerous preclinical studies demonstrate that changes in gene expression in the brain occur in animal models of depression using exposure to stress, such as social defeat and leaned helplessness, and that repeated administration of antidepressants ameliorates these stress-induced changes in gene expression. These findings suggest that alteration in gene transcription in the central nervous system in response to stress plays an important role in the pathophysiology of depression. Recent advances in epigenetics have led to the realization that chromatin remodeling mediated by histone deacetylase (HDAC) is closely involved in the regulation of gene transcription. In this context, we first review several preclinical studies demonstrating the antidepressant-like efficacy of HDAC inhibitors. We then suggest the efficacy of HDAC inhibitors in treatment-resistant depression based on the mechanism of action of HDAC. Finally, we discuss the possibility of using HDAC inhibitors in patients with treatment-resistant depression.

→ source (external link)

 

Full Study PDF

 

 

Thought of after reading this comment by Lunast:

 

 

Lunast,

May I ask you, and other people who have tried it: has vorinostat in any way helped you or anyone you know with depression, or is it only for anxiety/mania?


It's been a long, helacious crawl out of this last depression and I've used all types of weapons against it, not the least of these being a dedicated regime of aerobic exercise. It's difficult to pin down what ultimately relieved my depression. And I don't know that its removal is owed to one, singular thing So, I'm not sure if Vorinostat has had any direct antidepressant effect or if it would on anyone else. But I can state the obvious response that depression and anxiety often go hand in hand. If the ordinary motions of daily life did not feel so burdened by anxiety and the discouragement it brings, one could be freer to connect in a positive way.

 

 

 

Also gedanken's last comment on meditating but having parts of the psyche still be unreachable and unchangeable... This sort of thing is what first got me interested in HDAC inhibitors to begin with as well. Its ability to grant us the power to change and grow. What I'm really wondering about is HDACi's use after one's anxiety/fear/depression is cured... it has the potential to not only pull one out of anxiety, etcetera, but then grant us the ability to learn like a child would. The studies on butyrate show people being able to learn language and instruments better, and this is just an example from a study. These tools when applied to our own lives in different ways have much more potential. To help learn a move to a new city, learn a new language, learn social skills beyond that which you've ever known... The memory-enhancing effects of HDACi sessions could grant us the ability to progress not only out of anxiety, etc. but into a state of wholesomeness that we've never experienced before. HDAC inhibitors are nootropics in this way. One benefits from them whether they have a problem or not, due to them enhancing learning and memory in their unique way.


Edited by musicman4534, 02 December 2016 - 09:21 PM.


#259 SoundsAboutRight

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 07:32 AM

This thread seems to have died off. I was curious if there was a gb happening or anyone knew about a potential source since it has been a few months?



#260 Guest_Funiture2_*

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Posted 13 April 2023 - 10:41 AM

I realize that this is a very old thread....but does anyone know where I can buy Vorinostat in 2023? It seems all the group buys are long over.

 

Or if you were involved with a past group buy, do you remember where Vorinostat was sourced from? (Apart from lclabs.com which seems to only supply to legitimate research institutions).



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#261 Meggo

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Posted 14 April 2023 - 06:02 AM

If you don't find a source you can also try Valproate. It is over the counter in many countries and has similar pharmacodynamics.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: cl-994, epigenetic, anxiety disorder, trauma, ptsd, memory, add, group buy, anxiety

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