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Best Nootropic Stack for 'Cold Approach Pickup'?

nootropic stacks racetams aniracetam confidence anxiety

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#1 jroseland

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 08:28 PM


What combination of Nootropics would consistently make me better at making the magic happen with the ladies?
Promote social confidence
Boost verbal ability
Make me more playful, less logical
Make me more more horny and sexually intent full
Getting rid of anxiety, specifically 'approach anxiety'
Obviously men have been using alcohol for thousands of years to get laid because it has these effects. So I'm looking for something that's going to be more effective than alcohol, but less expensive as a habit and healthy. If MDMA wasn't illegal and debatably really bad for you I would just take that.

I'd like something I can take before I go to bars, nightclubs, parties or on dates that will put me into the 'social zone' for 4-6 hours. It's not something I'm going to be taking daily, I'll take it 2-4 times a week when I'm going out...

I'm a very moderate social drinker, I actually partied for 6 months completely sober. I'm not planning on drinking but sometimes making magic happen with the fairer sex requires taking a shot with them or having a glass of wine. So I don't want to take a Nootropic that's going to make me completely retarded if I consume a very moderate amount of alcohol on it...

I've heard good things about Aniracetam as a 'social smart drug'... Other suggestions?
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#2 Adaptogen

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 09:08 PM

oxytocin, phenibut, beta blockers, high dose piracetam..induced hypomania would likely be particularly effective.

If the only reason you aren't picking up women is approach anxiety, then it seems like overcoming this would solve the vast majority of your problems..However, that's not necessarily an easy feat, and i think the best way to treat this kind of problem is exposure therapy. Just treating life as a stage, so to speak. You might be interested in reading Neil Strauss's The Game. I found it interesting but never put it in to practice, nor did i particularly have a desire to. Combining exposure therapy with general nootropics for quicker reactions and enhanced experiential learning would probably be an effective combination.

Edited by Adaptogen, 19 February 2014 - 09:16 PM.

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#3 Jeoshua

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 02:53 PM

While reading The Game and taking Oxiracetam, I ended up approaching, dating, and having a child with a woman. I currently have child support payments.

YMMV
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#4 jroseland

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 05:39 PM

oxytocin, phenibut, beta blockers, high dose piracetam..induced hypomania would likely be particularly effective.

If the only reason you aren't picking up women is approach anxiety, then it seems like overcoming this would solve the vast majority of your problems..However, that's not necessarily an easy feat, and i think the best way to treat this kind of problem is exposure therapy. Just treating life as a stage, so to speak. You might be interested in reading Neil Strauss's The Game. I found it interesting but never put it in to practice, nor did i particularly have a desire to. Combining exposure therapy with general nootropics for quicker reactions and enhanced experiential learning would probably be an effective combination.

I keep hearing amazing things about the book. Hard to find here in Colombia though...

While reading The Game and taking Oxiracetam, I ended up approaching, dating, and having a child with a woman. I currently have child support payments.

YMMV

They need to invent a smart drug that makes you use condoms ALWAYS! LOL
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#5 Strangelove

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 10:57 PM

Your best bet is a combo of nootropics as you said, check some old you tube appearances of David Asprey with some recent ones, there is a big difference on how he comes through.

He takes many things at a time, I have heard him saying how he is on aniracetam, phenylpiracetam, bulletproof coffee, CILTEP at the same time! Although this does not make sense to me, you are going to have best results building a combo, that suits you, specifically. Your personality and the types of personality you are interested attracting.

I would think aniracetam (anxiety) phenylpiracetam (confidence) and nefiracetam (positive vibe) are worth looking into .
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#6 thomasthomas

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 03:32 PM

Confidence nootropics (not necessarily taken together):

Aniracetam: Mood, Verbal fluency, Horniness
Noopept: Confidence, prevention of fear/stress
Phosphytidyl Serine: Prevention of stress hormone cortisol
Inositol: Mood stabilizer
Sulbutiamine: Confidence, The Horn.
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#7 Flex

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 02:24 PM

Would give Buspirone a try, its not directly a nootropic but has´nt, at least for me, any big side effects.

It makes a bit horny, a bit playful and decreases anxiety to some extend

Edited by Flex, 23 February 2014 - 02:39 PM.


#8 jroseland

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 02:16 AM

Confidence nootropics (not necessarily taken together):

Aniracetam: Mood, Verbal fluency, Horniness
Noopept: Confidence, prevention of fear/stress
Phosphytidyl Serine: Prevention of stress hormone cortisol
Inositol: Mood stabilizer
Sulbutiamine: Confidence, The Horn.


Can I drink alcohol on these??

Would give Buspirone a try, its not directly a nootropic but has´nt, at least for me, any big side effects.

It makes a bit horny, a bit playful and decreases anxiety to some extend

Do you recall the dosages involved?

Your best bet is a combo of nootropics as you said, check some old you tube appearances of David Asprey with some recent ones, there is a big difference on how he comes through.

He takes many things at a time, I have heard him saying how he is on aniracetam, phenylpiracetam, bulletproof coffee, CILTEP at the same time! Although this does not make sense to me, you are going to have best results building a combo, that suits you, specifically. Your personality and the types of personality you are interested attracting.

I would think aniracetam (anxiety) phenylpiracetam (confidence) and nefiracetam (positive vibe) are worth looking into .

I guess I'm looking for a stack that's going to produce results consistently for a wide variety of people... As opposed to self experimentation.

#9 Strangelove

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:15 AM

From my experience, I do not think that works this way. There are different issues for each one that are the limiting factors in his game. Each person has a different personality, what he tries to convey and how he responds to substances (especially racetams). The best would be to find somethings that lower anxiety (if needed) without making you dumb, boost energy, confidence and warmth.

But, for example, if you are warm, emotional person by nature, you probably do not need an extra substance for that in your stack. A good general stack would be good to find (I am looking forward to this) but not optimal.

Hopefully, this thread continues with some good ideas. Do you write in a PUA forum? Maybe somehow could involve other people on this?

Also check this thread, if you have not done already, it has some ideas.

http://www.longecity...ch/#entry645716

#10 Flex

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 03:41 PM

Would give Buspirone a try, its not directly a nootropic but has´nt, at least for me, any big side effects.

It makes a bit horny, a bit playful and decreases anxiety to some extend

Do you recall the dosages involved?

I dont remeber exactly, I guess arround 10mg

#11 machete234

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 02:06 PM

Confidence nootropics (not necessarily taken together):

Aniracetam: Mood, Verbal fluency, Horniness
Noopept: Confidence, prevention of fear/stress
Phosphytidyl Serine: Prevention of stress hormone cortisol
Inositol: Mood stabilizer
Sulbutiamine: Confidence, The Horn.


Can I drink alcohol on these??


One glass should be OK and with the aniracetam you will notice how you get drunk quicker and you can stop earlier then.
The thing is when you combine the aniracetam with something stimulant-like like phenylpiracetam then you might not notice that you will get drunk quickly once the stuff wears off.
And never drink a lot because you will regret binge drinking on racetams so fucking much the next day its incredible it will be the hangover of your life.

Something else too: Ashwagandha, Indian herb helps before social situations where you dont feel that confident, takes away some fear and has hardly any side effects.
And it probably makes you horny too, raising testosterone moderately and I think something with lowering prolactine too, that means shorter refractionary period. (penis)

I would think aniracetam (anxiety) phenylpiracetam (confidence)

I tried this combo with small amounts yesterday and its quite good for talking fast and so on, maybe its easier to connect with people too.

Edited by machete234, 01 March 2014 - 02:13 PM.

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#12 toddtrout

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:36 PM

Buspirone usually comes in 30mg bars that you can break into pieces. It often has significant side effects, kind of a nauseous dysphoria, that kick in really hard but then fade out leaving you with reduced anxiety. I took it daily for a year before I adapted to it. 10mg at a time spread through the day is useful to try to avoid the side effects. You can chew them up, doesn't taste great but doesn't taste as bad as pramiracetam.

Klonopin would really knock out the anxiety, but it's very counter to what we want from nootropics, it's terrible on your memory.

I wouldn't recommend drinking with anything intended to reduce anxiety.

Edited by toddtrout, 12 March 2014 - 11:42 PM.


#13 jroseland

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 05:21 PM

Buspirone usually comes in 30mg bars that you can break into pieces. It often has significant side effects, kind of a nauseous dysphoria, that kick in really hard but then fade out leaving you with reduced anxiety. I took it daily for a year before I adapted to it. 10mg at a time spread through the day is useful to try to avoid the side effects. You can chew them up, doesn't taste great but doesn't taste as bad as pramiracetam.

Klonopin would really knock out the anxiety, but it's very counter to what we want from nootropics, it's terrible on your memory.

I wouldn't recommend drinking with anything intended to reduce anxiety.

Buspirone sounds terrible!
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#14 Jeoshua

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 03:23 PM

Honestly, what I found in my life is that the best medicine for approach anxiety is getting turned down repeatedly. Drink some coffee, take some nootropics, get in a good mental space, and just talk to everyone that you see. They don't need to be a "10". They don't even need to be female! Just force yourself out of your comfort zone and get out there talking to people. This isn't, of course, going to net you many dates, but it will get you over the fear of rejection.

Let's be real: If you really really REALLY want a specific girl, you're going to be very nervous approaching her. What if you fuck this up? But if you've practiced talking to anyone and everyone, you're going to have a much better chance when you walk up a talk to her that you're not going to be getting too far out of your comfort zone. But if she's the first person you've talked to that day, you're more likely to be a bit flustered, aren't you?

Also, women are attracted to confident men, but that doesn't mean that a shy and flustered guy isn't going to be effective. A lot of women even find this kind of cute, in my experience. Even tho I am pretty confident around women, sometimes I still fall back to my old, shy self. A blush and nervous grin can go a lot farther than a cheesy pickup line.

Edited by Jeoshua, 16 March 2014 - 03:25 PM.

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#15 yborcity

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 06:20 PM

hi jroseland,
i took phenibut for a while to improve my skills on the field and it really helps sorting out some social anxiety problems.
But keep in mind that you should not drink while on phenibut, you will end up crawling on the floor this stuff is more potent than xanax imho and don't over dose since you can develop a tolerance on it.

regards

PS: please keep us informed of your successes with the female gender:)

#16 alpal

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 06:57 AM

I have been experimenting with this for a few years. It's apparent to me that girls response to men is completely based on mens biological profile which is exhibited through their appearance and behaviour. I would go out and test women's sexual responses to me using a different supplements, nootropics, exercises, meditations etc, and then take note of the response. After I had found several methods that gave positive responses from women, I looked at each methods biological effects and looked for overlapping effects that are in common. So for example, if I found a positive effect from high dose olive oil, and also tribulus terrestis, I would see that they both increase luteinizing hormone, then I would try a different supplement that also increases luteinizing hormone and by that confirm that it is the specific biological change that is causing the certain benefit.

I now look around and just see people exhibiting biological profiles and having positive or negative responses from women based solely on it. I still bio-hack friends around me for other benefits like weight loss or mental abilities, but helping people with seduction is more controversial. I wanted to create a supplement for myself so I wouldn't have to down so many different ones and tried to start a company selling them but I couldn't get enough/any people on board to help pay for the manufacturing ($1000 minimum order). I even tried to back it up with research from universities, here are some taken out of context.
Wayne State University Study "…testosterone levels influenced men’s dominance behaviors… and how much thewoman said she ‘clicked' with them" Harvard University Study "…extraverts have better working memory skills than introverts." University of Abertay Dundee Study "Men with low stresslevels are significantly more attractive to women than highly stressed rivals"

Anyways, I'll assume that you have no deficits to begin with that you need to address such as depression (none of my advice will work if this is present) and just tell you what I think you could optimize in order of priority/effectiveness imo.

before going out

1, stablon
2, tilia timmentosa
3, dual n-back for 23 minutes (as long as it doesn't make you too stressed)
4, 5 tablespoons of olive oil
5, Progressive muscle relaxation
6, hot shower
7, PES Erase
8, Meriva SR curcumin

So, I believe that as long as you have no strange predispositions, and that you do not have an adverse reaction to any of these, you should dominate. If you do have an adverse reaction to anything there's always alternatives that can exert the same biological response so its no problem.

I guess i'll end with, im not a doctor or a scientist, just an experimenter with anecdotal experience
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#17 chemicalambrosia

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:33 AM

Interesting post Alpal. Could you give a real quick rundown of what each thing on your list does and why it would help with the opposite sex?

#18 alpal

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 02:11 AM

In general, to produce desirable responses you want to: increase the womans oxytocin, and eliminate all and any depressive symptoms or imbalances in yourself, then increase your luteinizing hormone/testosterone a bit, increase working memory and own oxytocin.

I do not mean real clinical depression. In my opinion everyone has some level of symptoms related to depression, like low serotonin, high cortisol, beta brainwaves, low prefrontal cortex function, etc. so I think if you categorize yourself as an introvert, anal, stressed, controlling, scatterbrained these are symptoms that fall under the depressive umbrella and need to be improved for good responses. And I think they're all easy to improve naturally.

To answer your question directly, stablon increases serotonin and working memory, tilia tomentosa lowers cortisol, dual n back improves working memory, olive oil increases luteinizing hormone and testosterone, progressive muscle relaxation lowers cortisol increases serotonin and improves brainwaves, hot shower increases your own oxytocin and endorphins (increasing your own oxytocin will also increase the oxytocin of women you interact with, and oxytocin lowers your cortisol and increases prosocial behaviour), PES erase lowers your cortisol and estrogen, meriva sr curcumin increases bdnf which is low in depressed people.

Again, not a scientist or doctor, just my observations.
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#19 Luminosity

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 04:58 AM

I am a woman. Women are people. We aren't trophies. We are human beings. If you think your drunk or drugged approaches to us aren't offensive, you are kidding yourselves.

How about concentrating on getting one woman and making her happy and being a decent boyfriend? Just a thought.

As for getting the balls to do that without crutches, just get out there and do it, or consider therapy.
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#20 alpal

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:09 AM

I am a man. Men, like women, are mammals. Both have the biological imperative to procreate. Women are just as guilty of modifying themselves to induce a sexual/dopamine response as men are. Breast implants, make up etc. there is nothing wrong with using alternative methods to achieve your goals as long as you are not harming people. If it is intimacy you are seeking than by all means be transparent but otherwise there are many circumstances where intentions however superficial are aligned by both parties and its their right to act on it.
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#21 Luminosity

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:19 AM

Yeah, having been on the receiving end of these attentions, that's not reality. Men who come up to women to pick them up for sex are demeaning in their intention and often in their specific behavior. It's even worse if they are intoxicated. Most women feel this way. Even women who are horny and are just looking to be picked up, which is a rare thing, in my opinion, often do not appreciate the specific behaviors they find in men who are trying to do this. Those men are often deceptive and manipulative and raise false hopes, or try to mess with the women's heads.

If you are trying to pick someone up just to have sex with them, I think mostly you are disrespectful. Grow up.
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#22 alpal

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:29 AM

It's my experience that women are equally guilty of being deceptive and manipulative especially if they are looking for a husband that can support her and a family financially. Are women upfront with that intention? If you find certain mens behaviour offensive, so be it, but don't conclude that for some reason women's intentions are more noble than mens.
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#23 chemicalambrosia

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 02:56 AM

In general, to produce desirable responses you want to: increase the womans oxytocin, and eliminate all and any depressive symptoms or imbalances in yourself, then increase your luteinizing hormone/testosterone a bit, increase working memory and own oxytocin.

I do not mean real clinical depression. In my opinion everyone has some level of symptoms related to depression, like low serotonin, high cortisol, beta brainwaves, low prefrontal cortex function, etc. so I think if you categorize yourself as an introvert, anal, stressed, controlling, scatterbrained these are symptoms that fall under the depressive umbrella and need to be improved for good responses. And I think they're all easy to improve naturally.

To answer your question directly, stablon increases serotonin and working memory, tilia tomentosa lowers cortisol, dual n back improves working memory, olive oil increases luteinizing hormone and testosterone, progressive muscle relaxation lowers cortisol increases serotonin and improves brainwaves, hot shower increases your own oxytocin and endorphins (increasing your own oxytocin will also increase the oxytocin of women you interact with, and oxytocin lowers your cortisol and increases prosocial behaviour), PES erase lowers your cortisol and estrogen, meriva sr curcumin increases bdnf which is low in depressed people.

Again, not a scientist or doctor, just my observations.


Thanks, good post. Quick searches will reveal that there are some studies behind everything you recommended. I am already taking stablon and meriva curcumin, so confirmation bias leads me to think that your other recommendations are good as well. Do you have a preferred brand for tilia tomentosa? It doesn't seem like there are many products available for it, even though it sounds promising. Five tablespoons of olive oil is 600 calories, do you take that daily?

#24 Flex

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 03:23 AM

Canabidiol (cbd) may also help.
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#25 alpal

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 07:03 AM

Tilia tomentosa gemmo seroyal unda is the brand I use, works great.
My opinion on daily olive oil is in order to have the most pronounced and desirable effect its better to take only when needed (6 hours before outing). My body quickly develops a tolerance to it so even the next day, the same dose has less impact (may be different for other people). I have found a different tolerance development rate for every method on the list and most of them become so tolerated eventually that they lose all noticeable effect, but others maintain a somewhat above baseline effect if the dose is high enough. I'll put them in order of which I find I most quickly build a tolerance to, meaning there is a much higher dose needed to get the same effect as the first dose in the shortest time. olive oil, stablon, curcumin, tilia tomentosa/progressive muscle relaxation, erase, dual n-back, shower. So the further down the list the more effective it can be daily.
I forgot to mention in my last post to increase the womans dopamine too. This can be done through mammalian rewards like high glycemic food, and novelty in any regard. Taking her to new restaurants that are very novel in their atmosphere or appearance, walks in a new (to her) part of the city, and even novel information like a new joke, or information that she did not know before (about people, science, languages, stories, countries... anything). There was a supplement I used to improve my recall of irrelevant interesting facts, I'll look through my notes for it, but it impacted ngf and bdnf.
Your questions are forcing me to flush out my ideas which is great so I have something concise to refer to in the future.
Now for methods of increasing her oxytocin in order of effectiveness.
Eliminate high cortisol in yourself. If it is high it will create a fight or flight response in both parties and suppress all oxytocin (cortisol and oxytocin have an inverse relationship).
Increase your own oxytocin
massage her (especially scalp, scalp massager toys are pretty good)
Stress/cortisol is increased by demands, so don't rush, push, force her, stress her out (these behaviours are adversarial and are an indication that your own cortisol and/or testosterone is too high. If your biology is optimized it will come off as a detached suggestion.), hot bath with epson salt (epsom salt proven to lower cortisol), hot tub, hot shower, be clean/groomed/smell good so, no fear of germs (my experience, not scientific), positive interaction, yoga and meditation, orgasm, see movie like a rom com, chocolate (preferably low caffeine), surprise/unexpected gifts (not expensive or thoughtful, just cute or funny like a teddy bear works), touch, like hand or arm holding while walking and other casual touching like moving hair from her face, hug, dance, sing, warmth like fluffy blankets and pillows on bed, soothing music, dim light or low in blue spectrum, incense (vanila or lavendar, maybe others too)
This list is mostly prioritized right but near the bottom the differences become less drastic. I regularly go on oxytocin binges with girls I see and its a much better experience than typical dating and many of these things can be done under the facade of a typical date if she happens to be traditional. I'd say 95% of my ideas are scientifically founded so if you doubt any just google the method with either the word oxytocin or dopamine and then add the word pubmed. I'm not a doctor or scientist.

Edited by alpal, 21 March 2014 - 07:07 AM.

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#26 Strangelove

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:57 PM

Great posts alpal, nice to have you here, I see why you would suggest all the things you listed, but are they strong enough to make a difference?
If you do not mind asking, what stablon and supplements have done for you on your "level of your game"? If you could also give a description of your personality and the kind of women that you found you have good interactions with, that would be great!

#27 alpal

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 06:53 PM

forgot to add a yoga sun salutation to the original stack post to couple with progressive muscle relaxation in number 5.
forgot to add sleep well (i use melatonin) above "increase own oxytocin"

Yes, definitely, just like diet and exercise can change the composition of your body, biological interventions will significantly alter your behavioural propensities and there are tons of studies on that, also a cool ted talk on the role of oxytocin on behaviour.
Level of game, I never understood this metaphor because it implies affirmative action and even indifference and deceit... But it has helped me have positive interactions with basically anyone. Having the biological profile I aim for gives you the demeanour of a friendly, smart, confident, and healthy person imo... there is very little intentional action happening in the moment of interaction, which is why I think it works. I find "game" is obvious or doesnt work with more self aware women. Bearing that in mind I do actually believe in a few lesser known and subtle psychological tactics, but these have barely any relative value compared to biology.
I grew up an introvert, shy, sensitive, intelligent. I think the combination of lowering my cortisol, improving my working memory and yoga/meditation for 6 months permanently changed me and I am now an ambivert, slightly less intelligent and always even tempered. I think its no surprise that high cortisol and low working memory are associated loosely in studies with introversion. I know it seems contrived that it actually worked as intended, but it did...
In the past I was able to attract only less discerning girls that were very free natured. With optimized biology I can attract more attractive, dismissive, and discerning types like a waitress.
Into the rabbit hole we go. Be warned, even less science (but probably some loose).
There are a few more theories I need to convey to put everything into perspective. Once I organize my thoughts maybe I'll make a little pdf. Alpha male theory. Social situations are competitive and women will be attracted most to the alpha male. My interpretation of what an alpha male is compared to beta and omega is the hormonal profile. Alphas have more testosterone, beta have more cortisol and omegas have less testosterone and likely more estrogen. You can be any variation of these, so you can have both the testosterone and the cortisol and be a semi beta and semi alpha. If there are only omegas in your vicinity then you will dominate, and if there are other betas but they have more cortisol than youyou will dominate. But this is offset with working memory which improves alpha ranking. So a more beta male hormone profile in competition with an alpha hormone profile may dominate if working memory is much better.
So imo social hierarchy is decided by working memory and and alpha type hormone profile, each having an impact on your overall ranking.
I forgot how in depth I experimented until now... I'll look through my notes more and see if theres more valuable (imo) info. I'm not a doctor or scientist.

Edited by alpal, 21 March 2014 - 06:54 PM.

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#28 Flex

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:59 PM

Phosphatidylserine does also lower cortisol, but it should be cycled and only dosed as suggested, because it thinns the blood, i guess, via platelet factor inhibition, which can be dangerous i.e leads to inner bleedings especially when used with a blood thinner like curcumin, ashwagandha and so on.
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#29 Flex

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 10:06 AM

Just to mention one thing; (You never know)
Do never try Coke for those or any purposes.
It takes more than it gives, i.e. cognition,emphaty etc.(some are long term) and increases Anxiety(maybe long term)
regardless what other say, even not once.... I know it.

Edited by Flex, 25 March 2014 - 10:11 AM.


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#30 jroseland

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 06:06 PM

One of my favorite Nootropics for pickup or socializing that hasen't been mentioned up to this point is L-Theanine; it's the Nootropic ingredient in green tea. It has a bunch of effects that make you better at socializing like:

  • Verbal fluency
  • Creativity and banter
  • Relaxation
  • Mildly dampers social anxiety

The reason this is one my favorite Nootropics for pickup is that it's super convenient to drink green tea while doing pickup; you can buy green tea at any grocery store, when you go out put a bag or two in your pocket, at the bar order bottled water instead of booze, then put the green tea in the water. The caffeine in the green tea, will make you more energetic.

 

Here's video I made on Green tea, let me know what you think...


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: nootropic stacks, racetams, aniracetam, confidence, anxiety

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