24 replies to this topic

[basicdude]

I am ADHD-PI (not very hyper, but lost in thought, find difficulty focusing, think too much, over analyze, can't pay attention) and I have anxiety that comes with it. As of late my anxiety is more or less taken care of as I have been on a subscription for Zoloft 100 mg. It works, and now that it's kicked in (a few months) it shows no signs of changing.

I am having a harder time tackling my ADHD symptoms. My mind tends to work so fast and so busily that it's hard to actually organize my thoughts and complete a task. I do end up finishing things, but with great struggle and repetition. This isn't too bad once in awhile, but it is my mental situation for nearly every goal I try to complete. That's an extremely euphemistic way of describing it, I'll leave it at that. It's unsustainable; you ADHD types know how horrible it can be.

I have been on the merry go round for prescription stimulants. All of them are frustratingly unpredictable. Adderall seems to be the most effective, but like all other stimulants it has a price, and I'm never sure when it's going to kick in and work or not.

Here are the supplements and medication I take right now:

Zoloft 100mg
Adderall XR 15mg
Adderall IR 10 mg


Supplements:

'Busy Brain release formula'- just a complex which contains a number of b-vitamins, bacopa, GABA, theanine, Folic Acid, Skullcap, Eleuthero and Lavender. I have taken theanine before and it is very effective for combating the crash of stimulants, but sometimes gives me headaches. This formula is pretty decent but I wonder how much is due to placebo other than the theanine.

Jarrow L-Tyrosine 500 mg, twice a day- I am still utterly confused as to the exact relationship between this and stimulants and I've read so much conflicting information. It works great in alleviating the crash symptoms of the stimulants and gives me plenty of energy and clear-headedness.

I take these occasionally, not every day:

fish oil, magnesium glycinate, vitamin d


My problems are motivation, focus, and keeping calm and not losing organization.

Anyway, now that I've given you that information, I am thinking of moving away from stimulant medication, ditching the adderall, and focusing on more supplements. The theanine and tyrosine are very promising.

I am not looking for the euphoria that people experience (not just people without ADHD) when starting stimulants. THe euphoric effects are random and come at unpredictable moments; they do not go away with tolerance, in fact the hyperfocus effect of stimulants never seems to wear off even after all the years I've taken them.

What I am looking for is something that will keep my brain sharp and energized so my thoughts can flow more orderly and I am able to realize my creative goals.



I am considering phosphatidylserine and phosphatidylcholine... there are a number of complexes out there at the vitamin store that contains these and I've heard a lot about it.

I have read about Alpha GPC and that also sounds wonderful, and also isn't it more effective than the above phosphatidyl groups? I am also considering Citicoline, but I cannot tell the difference between all of these.

Any suggestions are welcome. My stack would look something like this:


Zoloft 100mg
L-Tyrosine 500mg twice a day
Possibly Phosphatidylserine or -choline
Possibly Alpha GPC
Possibly CDP Choline
Fish Oil (or Krill Oil, which is better?)
Valerian Root (sleep aid) or L-Theanine or something that contains theanine


Any recommendations to add or take away from this stack? Any help is appreciated. I am looking for something that helps with motivation and energy.

Edited by basicdude, 16 March 2014 - 06:48 AM.

[GreenLemon]

Hi,

In my opinion you should NOT take L-Tyrosine and other stuff like that.

Reasons regarding Tyrosine:
- With the Adderall , the Tyrosine increases the blood pressure. And many people experience reverse reactions when taken together (even psychotics).....


Zoloft?. Ask your doctor man.
don't be taking it without medical supervision god dam it.






....



------- >>>>>> if you are not getting enough sleep then just forget about it, because even myself begin addicted to Stimulant in the past, and then etc... you just need the right sleep no matter what. no stimulant will work if you don't get enough sleep and you will just end up like a slug without right sleep.

aim for at least 8 hours.... try to get 9-10 hours of sleep. 11 hours if you can.

Edited by GreenLemon, 16 March 2014 - 03:21 PM.

[Jeoshua]

Fish Oil or Krill Oil, there is very little difference between the two. The claim is that since Krill Oil contains EFA-Phospholipid complexes, that it is better for you and better absorbed. This would be true, except Krill Oil doesn't really have a large EFA-PL content, most of it being the more common EFA-Triglyceride complexes, instead. And when reduced, as it is in supplements, most of that is turned into EFA Esters instead of the Phospholipid or Triglyceride forms; it's a natural consequence of the refinement process. Otherwise you would just be taking liver oil pills.

Studies have shown no real difference between any of the forms, in real terms. the esters take longer to absorb, but for a supplement that shows it's true colors after days of administration, a 15 minute absorption rate vs a 1 hour absorption rate doesn't make a huge amount of difference, now does it?

The more important distinction in EFAs is going to be the specific content of which fatty acids you're talking about. DHA, EPA, ALA, EHA, DPA, etc etc ad nauseum. All of them are known for different effects. Personally, I take a 600mg DHA supplement twice daily (and I do have ADHD) to pretty great effect. I don't quite feel "all there" unless I have it, and for me, the DHA content is the most important part of my Fish Oil supplement.

Edited by Jeoshua, 16 March 2014 - 03:13 PM.

[mrd1]

It is unlikely that L-tyrosine will be able to replace a sum of 25 mg/day then alone be of more efficacy.

The first issue is that L-tyrosine would have to be converted to L-dopa then have to be converted to Dopamine then have to not be further converted to norepinephrine and then epinephrine.

The second issue is that even if it did get converted to dopamine just in the brain and didn't get converted further there are many dopamine receptors D1, D2, D3, D4, D5.
D3-5 play a large role in things like movement (hence the use of L-dopa in parkinsons) And, would be of little use to you.

The third issue is your body heavily regulates the amount of dopamine anyway.

Fourth Issue your body could easily break it down for energy via the Kreb (citric Acid cycle)

Fifth issue, L tyrosine has not been able to show a significant effect on mood.

[basicdude]

So the l-tyrosine isn't really having a great effect? I'm not sure about that... but those points do make sense.

What are your opinions on the cholines and phosphatidyls?

[GreenLemon]

So the l-tyrosine isn't really having a great effect? I'm not sure about that... but those points do make sense.

What are your opinions on the cholines and phosphatidyls?

Hi,

It is highly recommended that you do NOT take L-Tyrosine with adderall or other Stimulants.

Why?:
- Increase in blood pressure
- More strain on the heart,etc.

[chemicalambrosia]

So the l-tyrosine isn't really having a great effect? I'm not sure about that... but those points do make sense.

What are your opinions on the cholines and phosphatidyls?

I've read anecdotes that say tyrosine doesn't mix well with certain stimulants, including Adderall. In my personal experience I've noticed that it mixes well with certain stimulants and doesn't with others, confirming for myself what I've read from others. You might try taking breaks from Adderall and using tyrosine on those days. If you don't notice side effects you can use more, doses up to several grams. It is cheap in bulk powder form from a number of vendors and doesn't taste bad. It does mix well with caffeine from my experience and other's, if caffeine is something that you tolerate and notice good effects from.

[basicdude]

Is it worth trying choline and phosphatidylserine (PS?)

[basicdude]

Ah, apparently there is an edit window for your posts.

So the l-tyrosine isn't really having a great effect? I'm not sure about that... but those points do make sense.

What are your opinions on the cholines and phosphatidyls?

I've read anecdotes that say tyrosine doesn't mix well with certain stimulants, including Adderall. In my personal experience I've noticed that it mixes well with certain stimulants and doesn't with others, confirming for myself what I've read from others. You might try taking breaks from Adderall and using tyrosine on those days. If you don't notice side effects you can use more, doses up to several grams. It is cheap in bulk powder form from a number of vendors and doesn't taste bad. It does mix well with caffeine from my experience and other's, if caffeine is something that you tolerate and notice good effects from.

I am getting the impression that using tyrosine as if it were 'stimulant lite' is probably not a successful course of action. It is not going to give me the same effects as a stimulant and many of the noticeable effects I perceive are merely placebo. I am not sure about that; the energy boost effect is definitely repeatable with or without taking adderall. But yes, I have found that it is not a suitable replacement for a stimulant entirely.

I cannot think that it is completely useless as a supplement though; the absorption just takes a longer time and is used all over by the brain, rather than specifically targeting parts of the brain that exhibit ADHD symptoms.

I'm going to try the PS and choline supplements next. Perhaps keep the adderall on an as needed basis.

Edited by basicdude, 17 March 2014 - 06:16 AM.

[mrd1]

Phosphatidylcholine or serine and cholines (so long as they are in forms that can pass the blood brain barrier example alpha gpc or cdp choline) show much greater promise than l-tyrosine.

I use phosphatidylcholine on a daily basis. However, it is NOT for any direct effects of the chemical itself. Rather, I pair it with curcumin which has a hard time being absorbed which is greatly enhanced in the presence of a phosphatidyl- compound by allowing it to get in and if you can't get a drug in the body without being cycled out that really makes it not that useful.

Curcumin is extracted from tumeric and both cross culturally in ancient traditions and modern medicine both the east and the west agree curcumin is a powerful chemical.

If you use curcumin, I then would say phosphatidylcholine is essential.

More specifically a mixture containing 625-1850 mg of Green tea extract (~50% EGCG), Curcumin 625-5000 mg, black bepper supplying 5 -10 mg of biopeprine (roughly 50-200 mg), and phosphatidyl choline in a 0.25-1:1 ratio dependent on the dose of curcumin you consume.
If you use tumeric in the kitchen its roughly 5-10% or so I believe but may have higher bio availability. Which, I used when starting off before buying pure curcumin.

CDP choline or Alpha GPC shows promise on its own by being one of the few supplements to demonstrate (albiet, in rodent so I am not completely sold) synergy with the racetams.

L-tyrosine may not be completely useless as just about anything could be used for something in some field but, at this time I don't think we have the level of expertise on the complex pathways the body has interacting with l-tyrosine and a lack of clear evidence to warrant its use.

Also, while this is purely anecdotal, since I have narcolepsy that may provide a clear cut observable measure of stimulant ability. Even massive amount of nootropics, include the strongest ones like noopept coluracetam sunifiram etc, fail to prevent me from getting catalepsy or falling asleep during the day.

This morning I took,
Adderall XR 30 mg
Nicotine Gum 8 mg
Nuvigil 225 mg
Effexor 150 mg
Strattera 80 mg
Tenex 1 mg

And, it is night and day. As the drugs entire my system I typically get 1-3 brief periods of narcolepsy. During the next 6-8 hours I have roughly zero even hints of narcolepsy followed by 1-2 boughts of narcolepsy then an additional roughly 6 hours of no narcolepsy from the booster 25 mg of adderall XR with more nicotine gum and a some caffeine. With the last like three hours of the day resulting in a reemergence of the narcolepsy that if I am trying to do something predictably goes away from 8-12 mg of nicotine with 2 cups of coffee.

So, while this doesn't provide any evidence for cognitive enhancement, as far as stimulant ability, so long as we agree that the lack of narcolepsy boughts and fatigue are a reasonable measure, it seems clear that Adderall, Provigil, Nicotine, and Caffeine are more probably to be stimulants than other nootropics. However, stimulant activity does not = cognitive enhancement.

Edited by mrd1, 17 March 2014 - 07:09 PM.

[basicdude]

(so long as they are in forms that can pass the blood brain barrier example alpha gpc or cdp choline)

So would the Phosphatidylserine complexes sold by Vitamin shops be of any help then? I am planning on going to the store to find any of these that work. Would DLPA help?

[mrd1]

You'll go broke trying to use physical stores. CDP choline in bulk is likely to help your stack. I like smartpowders but I get my stuff from a bunch of places CDP isn't hard to find so youll have many choices.

[basicdude]

You'll go broke trying to use physical stores. CDP choline in bulk is likely to help your stack. I like smartpowders but I get my stuff from a bunch of places CDP isn't hard to find so youll have many choices.

I am conflicted now about choline and cholinergic substances...



After doing some reading I've thought up an alternate stack:


Dl Phenylalanine and tyrosine
ALCAR (if possible)
Alpha Lipoic Acid
EPA fish oil
Sam-E
Magnesium glycinate


I am trying to deal with the frustrations of thinking too much and too hard as well as the tunnel vision and unpredictability of adderall.

I am also trying to avoid anything that would interact with the zoloft.

Edited by basicdude, 18 March 2014 - 04:32 AM.

[mrd1]

Perhaps your adderall xr dosage is too low or you have something like aspergers, sleep apena, depression, anxiety, or any number of things that could make it worse.

Sam-E has a lot of research behind it

[GreenLemon]

Phosphatidylcholine or serine and cholines (so long as they are in forms that can pass the blood brain barrier example alpha gpc or cdp choline) show much greater promise than l-tyrosine.

I use phosphatidylcholine on a daily basis. However, it is NOT for any direct effects of the chemical itself. Rather, I pair it with curcumin which has a hard time being absorbed which is greatly enhanced in the presence of a phosphatidyl- compound by allowing it to get in and if you can't get a drug in the body without being cycled out that really makes it not that useful.

Curcumin is extracted from tumeric and both cross culturally in ancient traditions and modern medicine both the east and the west agree curcumin is a powerful chemical.

If you use curcumin, I then would say phosphatidylcholine is essential.

More specifically a mixture containing 625-1850 mg of Green tea extract (~50% EGCG), Curcumin 625-5000 mg, black bepper supplying 5 -10 mg of biopeprine (roughly 50-200 mg), and phosphatidyl choline in a 0.25-1:1 ratio dependent on the dose of curcumin you consume.
If you use tumeric in the kitchen its roughly 5-10% or so I believe but may have higher bio availability. Which, I used when starting off before buying pure curcumin.

CDP choline or Alpha GPC shows promise on its own by being one of the few supplements to demonstrate (albiet, in rodent so I am not completely sold) synergy with the racetams.

L-tyrosine may not be completely useless as just about anything could be used for something in some field but, at this time I don't think we have the level of expertise on the complex pathways the body has interacting with l-tyrosine and a lack of clear evidence to warrant its use.

Also, while this is purely anecdotal, since I have narcolepsy that may provide a clear cut observable measure of stimulant ability. Even massive amount of nootropics, include the strongest ones like noopept coluracetam sunifiram etc, fail to prevent me from getting catalepsy or falling asleep during the day.

This morning I took,
Adderall XR 30 mg
Nicotine Gum 8 mg
Nuvigil 225 mg
Effexor 150 mg
Strattera 80 mg
Tenex 1 mg

And, it is night and day. As the drugs entire my system I typically get 1-3 brief periods of narcolepsy. During the next 6-8 hours I have roughly zero even hints of narcolepsy followed by 1-2 boughts of narcolepsy then an additional roughly 6 hours of no narcolepsy from the booster 25 mg of adderall XR with more nicotine gum and a some caffeine. With the last like three hours of the day resulting in a reemergence of the narcolepsy that if I am trying to do something predictably goes away from 8-12 mg of nicotine with 2 cups of coffee.

So, while this doesn't provide any evidence for cognitive enhancement, as far as stimulant ability, so long as we agree that the lack of narcolepsy boughts and fatigue are a reasonable measure, it seems clear that Adderall, Provigil, Nicotine, and Caffeine are more probably to be stimulants than other nootropics. However, stimulant activity does not = cognitive enhancement.

Hello,

May I please ask you took 8mg of Nicotine gum?. was it in all one go or what?. thank you.

[GreenLemon]

Phosphatidylcholine or serine and cholines (so long as they are in forms that can pass the blood brain barrier example alpha gpc or cdp choline) show much greater promise than l-tyrosine.

I use phosphatidylcholine on a daily basis. However, it is NOT for any direct effects of the chemical itself. Rather, I pair it with curcumin which has a hard time being absorbed which is greatly enhanced in the presence of a phosphatidyl- compound by allowing it to get in and if you can't get a drug in the body without being cycled out that really makes it not that useful.

Curcumin is extracted from tumeric and both cross culturally in ancient traditions and modern medicine both the east and the west agree curcumin is a powerful chemical.

If you use curcumin, I then would say phosphatidylcholine is essential.

More specifically a mixture containing 625-1850 mg of Green tea extract (~50% EGCG), Curcumin 625-5000 mg, black bepper supplying 5 -10 mg of biopeprine (roughly 50-200 mg), and phosphatidyl choline in a 0.25-1:1 ratio dependent on the dose of curcumin you consume.
If you use tumeric in the kitchen its roughly 5-10% or so I believe but may have higher bio availability. Which, I used when starting off before buying pure curcumin.

CDP choline or Alpha GPC shows promise on its own by being one of the few supplements to demonstrate (albiet, in rodent so I am not completely sold) synergy with the racetams.

L-tyrosine may not be completely useless as just about anything could be used for something in some field but, at this time I don't think we have the level of expertise on the complex pathways the body has interacting with l-tyrosine and a lack of clear evidence to warrant its use.

Also, while this is purely anecdotal, since I have narcolepsy that may provide a clear cut observable measure of stimulant ability. Even massive amount of nootropics, include the strongest ones like noopept coluracetam sunifiram etc, fail to prevent me from getting catalepsy or falling asleep during the day.

This morning I took,
Adderall XR 30 mg
Nicotine Gum 8 mg
Nuvigil 225 mg
Effexor 150 mg
Strattera 80 mg
Tenex 1 mg

And, it is night and day. As the drugs entire my system I typically get 1-3 brief periods of narcolepsy. During the next 6-8 hours I have roughly zero even hints of narcolepsy followed by 1-2 boughts of narcolepsy then an additional roughly 6 hours of no narcolepsy from the booster 25 mg of adderall XR with more nicotine gum and a some caffeine. With the last like three hours of the day resulting in a reemergence of the narcolepsy that if I am trying to do something predictably goes away from 8-12 mg of nicotine with 2 cups of coffee.

So, while this doesn't provide any evidence for cognitive enhancement, as far as stimulant ability, so long as we agree that the lack of narcolepsy boughts and fatigue are a reasonable measure, it seems clear that Adderall, Provigil, Nicotine, and Caffeine are more probably to be stimulants than other nootropics. However, stimulant activity does not = cognitive enhancement.

Hi,

If you are finding yourself falling alseep in the day or feeling sleepy, have you thought about Strattera causing that?....

And may I please ask, did your doctor prescribe you all the other meds?, how did you ask for the prescription for them? thank you

[Metagene]

mrd1 do you take 1mg tenex for Bp control?

[mrd1]

Good point about the strattera causing drowsiness that happened to my friend. But, this time its actual narcolepsy because I got a full sleep study and I have moderate narcolepsy. Which would make sense because my body would always freeze up or get really weak. Or, id be totally not sleep deprived just sit and be out cold at awkard times. I actually was confusing it with depression because its kinda like sleeping middle of the day, slow body movement,falling asleep in activities I enjoy.

Yes, my General p doc gives me the nuvigil and my psych manages all the other meds. With the lithium left on at my request.

I take tenex to try to help a little with the adhd however, it does seem to make me much less reactive in my body to the negatives of stimulants .

I take nicotine gum as 4 or 8 or 12 mg at once depending on the amount of narcolepsy and adhd medicine in my blood and how urgent it is I stay alert.

[Babychris]

Sorry Mrd but someone has to tell you that you are doing stupid man ! You are taking far too much stuff and I don't think that any doctor has advice you to take that... I'm studiying MD, and trust me bro' you are increasing by yourself your nacoleptic syndrom... 

You should stick on some cup of green tea with 2*20 IR Ritalin BID or TID and THAT'S ALL, if you can't bear the ritalin, adderall should be OK. But seriously your behaviour seems to me very pathological I'm concerned here...

[mrd1]

I appreciate your concern, I am heavily monitored by two doctors and get regular monthly blood work. Perhaps I am acting pathologically, even so I am very happy with my actions. Green tea does have some health and nootropic effects, however, I honestly think it would be a bit odd to have it be one of the main pillars of narcolepsy treatment. With that said, caffeine does seem to have potential along side more powerful drugs for many things depression, painkilling, adhd, etc. Medicine is a massive field good luck juggling psychology medicine and neuroscience. I can barely even scratch the surface of neuroscience by itself.

 

If you can gather any evidence of SNRIs, NRIs, DAT inhibitors, NDRIs, or lithium making narcolepsy worse id be very interested. Especially, regarding the tenex given its interesting mechanism of action.  

[Duchykins]

@ OP

Take your magnesium, calcium, D3, zinc as religiously as your precious stims. Citicoline or phosphatidylserine have been known to help attention deficits. Get a fish or cod liver oil with about twice as much EPA as DHA. Pay attention to your B vitamins, especially B6, B12 and B8. Lysine and taurine, perhaps theanine. Cut back on caffeine and consider tapering off the SSRI, you're already on brain-fucking amphetamines so there is no reason to make things worse. Your musical chairs with stims is the average amphetamine user's experience (as well as getiing on antidepressants after being on amphetamines for a while) because they have little therapeutic use with the average ADHD diagnosis and do more harm than good with long term use, consider tapering off of them unless you absolutely near psychotic without them. There are healthier, less harmful and reversible ways of supporting your dopamine, GABA and serotonin.

Edited by Duchykins, 21 April 2014 - 08:41 PM.

[mrd1]

I agree Omega-3s have been ASSOCIATED (lower on average blood levels does not equal caustion) with ADHD. Some evidence suggests that even with a placebo control omega 3s may cause a SMALL but statistically significant improvement in symptom severity. (Webmd, 2005-2014)

 

I wouldn't try to replace FDA approved on label drug treatments with herbs and dietary supplements because they do NOT require ANY proof of effectiveness or safety. (Webmd, 2005-2014) And, what people on this board take varies from supplements to commercial blends to serious research chemicals and RX drugs imported from other countries. 

 

However, supplements and herbs may be able to improve the results you get with just mainstream medicine. 

 

Zero of the 27 matches for ADHD vitamins and supplements have reached a likely effective level. With Zinc and fishoil being given the rating as possibly effect. (WebMD, 2014) 

 

Amphetamine can and is a FDA approved drug that has been shown to be safe and effective in the long term. In one long term 24 month study "Treatment with MAS XR 20-60 mg/day for adult ADHD was generally well tolerated and was associated with sustained symptomatic improvement for up to 24 months." (** that does not mean it stopped working. Only that the study ended and therefore they couldn't make a conclusion beyond the duration of the study.) (Biederman et al,, 2005) 

 

Also, if you have anxiety and zoloft helps than, I don't see why you'd stop it. Anxiety can be a serious issue every bit as deserving of medication as a "physical" issue. And, it has been shown to work and be generally safe and well tolerated. 

 

 

 

[Duchykins]

I agree Omega-3s have been ASSOCIATED (lower on average blood levels does not equal caustion) with ADHD. Some evidence suggests that even with a placebo control omega 3s may cause a SMALL but statistically significant improvement in symptom severity. (Webmd, 2005-2014)
 
I wouldn't try to replace FDA approved on label drug treatments with herbs and dietary supplements because they do NOT require ANY proof of effectiveness or safety. (Webmd, 2005-2014) And, what people on this board take varies from supplements to commercial blends to serious research chemicals and RX drugs imported from other countries. 
 
However, supplements and herbs may be able to improve the results you get with just mainstream medicine. 
 
Zero of the 27 matches for ADHD vitamins and supplements have reached a likely effective level. With Zinc and fishoil being given the rating as possibly effect. (WebMD, 2014) 
 
Amphetamine can and is a FDA approved drug that has been shown to be safe and effective in the long term. In one long term 24 month study "Treatment with MAS XR 20-60 mg/day for adult ADHD was generally well tolerated and was associated with sustained symptomatic improvement for up to 24 months." (** that does not mean it stopped working. Only that the study ended and therefore they couldn't make a conclusion beyond the duration of the study.) (Biederman et al,, 2005) 
 
Also, if you have anxiety and zoloft helps than, I don't see why you'd stop it. Anxiety can be a serious issue every bit as deserving of medication as a "physical" issue. And, it has been shown to work and be generally safe and well tolerated. 
 
 
 

Indeed, anxiety and depression are every bit as deserving of medication as 'physical'. Speaking as one with PTSD, I always find it amusing when someone assumes I must not take it seriously if I disagree with certain treatment methods. Following that line of reasoning, I'm sure that means that if someone's issues can be as effecively treated with nonprescription drugs then that means their problem is not that serious.

My little brother was diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed amphetamines too, but maybe I don't take that seriously either.

[Ritchie]

Have you looked in to chinese skull cap? One of its alkaloids(Oroxylin A) acts as a potent dopamine reuptake inhibitor akin to Ritalin. Another one of its alkaloids(Wogonin) has a potent anti anxiety effect without causing sedation or muscle relaxation. Both if the studies are in vitro, but hey chinese skullcap is cheap and readily availible so why not give it a shot?

[ModaMinds]

I wouldn't be so bold as to label all amphetamines as "safe and effective in the long term." In the long term, they are shown to be neurotoxic, and not everyone responds well to them. Someone I know, while certainly having more focus for things like school work, ultimately fell into a state of psychosis with frequent hallucinations. It would be unwise to gloss over the effects of a drug just because of what the FDA says.

Edited by ModaMinds, 24 April 2014 - 03:44 PM.