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Curcumin for Mood Disorders

curcumin maoi depression anxiety antidepressant rhodiola brain 2.0

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#1 Mr Kebab

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 08:57 AM


After reading a book late last year called Brain 2.0, I have seriously gotten into curcumin for general health - particularly brain health.

However I am most interested in its effects on monoamines and consequently, mood disorders. In the past I have used SSRIs (for mild anxiety) but can't now due to them interfering with my pain medication. Ditto for SJW.

For the last couple of months I have been taking the BCM95 curcumin, the curcumin phytosome version and piperine for bioavailability. I seem to be getting a definite moderate mood boost which is most evident in terms of improved stress tolerance. However, usually I can keenly feel when my serotonin is getting boosted - there are various telltale sensations I recognize. I don't get this with curcumin - no druggy or "high" feeling. Perhaps curcumin is more of a MAO-B inhibitor? I don't discount placebo either - apart from the fact that I generally have very poor experience with anything "natural" so I don't think I was consciously expecting anything (I could be wrong however).

So I am curious -

1. How would you rate curcumin's potency as an antidepressant (MAOI) versus other options like rhodiola or SJW?
2. Have you seen any difference in effectiveness between variants (BCM95 v others etc)?
3. What has been your personal experience?
4. Can you think of any downsides? (curcumin seems to be suspiciously lacking in adverse effects)

This month I have even started giving curcumin to my elderly dogs to see if there is any improvement in their joint inflammation (only measurable by improvements in gait - as I can't get CRP tests done on them!)

#2 LexLux

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 02:32 AM

I actually make my own using a capsule machine and some turmeric + black pepper. I don't get any noticebale sensations after I take the capsule but looking back over the months I think there has been a small positive before and after difference.

Edited by LexLux, 27 March 2014 - 02:33 AM.


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#3 Godof Smallthings

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 05:06 AM

I've had two bouts of depression in my life. Was on an SSRI (citalopram) the second time. I've also taken curcumin supplementation from three brands (Now Foods, Theracurmin and from a Thai government project). I also chew raw turmeric root now and then, and also heat up turmeric and mortared black pepper in olive oil or coconut oil and eat it with sourdough bread and soft boiled eggs, or over rice.

The effects of citalopram were very noticeable. For me, mostly in a good way - they took the edge of the depression so I could pull myself together enough to continue my studies. When I tapered down my use, I had brain zaps for a few weeks, but apart from that my experience was positive. I had suicidal ideation before I started citalopram, which stopped when I started taking citalopram.

Curcumin supplementation has not produced any tangible sensations or changes that I can say, but as I was not experiencing clinical depression when I started taking it, maybe the usefulness of my observation is limited.

Curcumin has many other benefits though, so I still see taking it as worthwhile.

#4 LexLux

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 12:53 PM

There is some decent evidence for its antidepressant effects (inhibits both MAO A & B) and apparently it even increases BDNF; this is a great read (full text as well!):

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2929771/

Edited by LexLux, 27 March 2014 - 12:59 PM.


#5 Phoenicis

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 01:23 PM

On page 5 of that study they talk about the issue of bio availability and state that in mice a dosage of 2.5mg/kg of piperdine enhanced the antidepressant activities of curcumin (20 and 40 mg/kg). At 20 mg/kg w/ 2.5 mg/kg piperdine there was a significant increase in mono amines compared to curcumin alone.

For the sake of academic discussion (don't rely on these figures) how would that convert into humans (anyone?), I'm getting 20/12 = 1.66 mg/kg curcumin and 2.5/12 = .21mg/kg piperdine for 60 kg human? Im not a doctor, so do not rely on these figures.

I'm not sure what i.p. means?

"The combination of piperine (2.5 mg/kg, i.p., 21 days), a bioavailability enhancer, with curcumin (20 and 40 mg/kg, i.p., 21 days)"

Products on the market have more like 500-1000mg curcumin and 5 mg piperdine right? My calculation came out to more piperdine at 12mg and less curcumin at like 100 -200mg for a 60kg human. So where am I going wrong?

Edited by Phoenicis, 27 March 2014 - 01:53 PM.


#6 Mr Kebab

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 01:22 AM

On page 5 of that study they talk about the issue of bio availability and state that in mice a dosage of 2.5mg/kg of piperdine enhanced the antidepressant activities of curcumin (20 and 40 mg/kg). At 20 mg/kg w/ 2.5 mg/kg piperdine there was a significant increase in mono amines compared to curcumin alone.

For the sake of academic discussion (don't rely on these figures) how would that convert into humans (anyone?), I'm getting 20/12 = 1.66 mg/kg curcumin and 2.5/12 = .21mg/kg piperdine for 60 kg human? Im not a doctor, so do not rely on these figures.

I'm not sure what i.p. means?

"The combination of piperine (2.5 mg/kg, i.p., 21 days), a bioavailability enhancer, with curcumin (20 and 40 mg/kg, i.p., 21 days)"

Products on the market have more like 500-1000mg curcumin and 5 mg piperdine right? My calculation came out to more piperdine at 12mg and less curcumin at like 100 -200mg for a 60kg human. So where am I going wrong?


HI Phenicis,

I believe IP is "intraperitoneal" (http://en.wikipedia....oneal_injection)

Also, my understanding is that due to differences in rodent metabolism v human, it is impossible to convert the dosages like for like.

That curcumin overview is probably the best one freely available on the internet. There is also a university somewhere (I forget where) currently doing a study on curcumin as an antidepressant. Hopefully that becomes available soon.

Curcumin clearly appears to treat depression in mice and clearly appears to inhibit monoamine oxidation, what I can't find is good anecdotal information/personal experiences. Also, another problem is that, due to the mechanism of action, there is no information on binding affinities (like we would get with an SSRI or an antagonist). So I am curious whether curcumin is potent enough to be considered as an alternative to drugs in cases of mild depression or mild anxiety.

Anyway, any comments/discussion appreciated. I am really excited about curcumin however there is still a lack of solid information.

#7 celebes

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 02:34 AM

Curcumin (Curcu-gel form) is one of the most potent mood improvers I've taken. 5-HT1A agonism, 5-HT2C antagonism, increasing BDNF, CREB and neurogenesis and normalising glucocorticoid response are the more prominent mechanisms at ordinary doses.

#8 Vision

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 02:21 AM

This may be a little offtopic, sorry for that..

 

I started to take turmeric (min. 4% curcumin) for my mood yesterday. I took one heaping teaspoon with 5mg of BioPerine. Later a very strange thing happened while I was in the sauna, my eye's frame rate dropped and I had after images, like 10 pictures on top of each other. This lasted only about 3 seconds each time and happened about 5-10 times. I was pretty freaked out so I'd like to know why this happened.

 

- Is curcumin a strong enough NMDA antagonist to cause this effect?

- Is there a bad interaction in my stack? (I take ALCAR, Lion's Mane & other mushrooms, ashwagandha, rhodiola, L-methylfolate, NAC, magnesium and some other basic supplements)

- Some other reason, like blood pressure (= bad interaction?)

 

Curcumin seems to be a very promising supplement and I hope this was just some random thing to happen. I'll keep taking it and report if this continues to happen.

 

 



#9 Godof Smallthings

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 03:08 AM

I don't know the cause of the symptoms you describe, but BioPerine increases bioavailability of many compounds, so if you have not taken it before it is a much more likely candidate for the symptoms than a teaspoon of turmeric (which is very commonly used in South Asian and Middle Eastern cooking).



#10 Duchykins

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 05:47 PM

This may be a little offtopic, sorry for that..
 
I started to take turmeric (min. 4% curcumin) for my mood yesterday. I took one heaping teaspoon with 5mg of BioPerine. Later a very strange thing happened while I was in the sauna, my eye's frame rate dropped and I had after images, like 10 pictures on top of each other. This lasted only about 3 seconds each time and happened about 5-10 times. I was pretty freaked out so I'd like to know why this happened.
 
- Is curcumin a strong enough NMDA antagonist to cause this effect?
- Is there a bad interaction in my stack? (I take ALCAR, Lion's Mane & other mushrooms, ashwagandha, rhodiola, L-methylfolate, NAC, magnesium and some other basic supplements)
- Some other reason, like blood pressure (= bad interaction?)
 
Curcumin seems to be a very promising supplement and I hope this was just some random thing to happen. I'll keep taking it and report if this continues to happen.
 
 


Keywords: "in the sauna"

Reports of temporary visual disturbanes, head rushes, faintness and such while in saunas, baths or showers are pretty common and are directly related to the heat. It doesn't necessarily have to happen regularly. If it never happened to you before, that is meaningless.

You're taking some vasodilators. Their nootropic effects are in part acheived through vasodilation so that is desirable in those substances. No they aren't messing with your vision on their own and under normal circumstances, but they can make you more sensitive to high heat and humidity, while making you more tolerant of cold. Whether this is beneficial or detrimental depends entirely on the environment you place yourself in.

Edited by Duchykins, 29 April 2014 - 05:48 PM.


#11 Arjuna

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 01:45 AM

Curcumin (Curcu-gel form) is one of the most potent mood improvers I've taken. 5-HT1A agonism, 5-HT2C antagonism, increasing BDNF, CREB and neurogenesis and normalising glucocorticoid response are the more prominent mechanisms at ordinary doses.

 

Do you have a source to show curcumin antagonizes 5ht2c??



#12 Kewell357

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 03:08 AM

I took Jarrow Curcumin a couple days ago, a minute dose, and I was the most productive I've been for days. My mood was also elevated. I can't seem to figure out what caused this. I did take this earlier this year and it produced the same effects. Believe it or not but it's the closest thing I've come to Adderall, which sounds ridiculous.

 

I looked it up and the type I took did not contain bioperine.



#13 normalizing

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 03:11 AM

take it from me an experienced depression sufferer. i had all types of low to mild and severe depressions and ive experimented with enough stuff to know which works and which doesnt. ive tried curcumin for depression after all those studies and NOTHING. ive tried around 7 different brands. im starting to think its some marketing ploy since curcumin is the most patented herb on the market now days. curcumin has so many damn patents with various ways of claiming increase bioavailaibity that the companies that sell it now do not support it as simple herb supplement but AN ACTUAL DRUG. so YES, YOU WILL SEE MANY BS STUDIES AND CLAIMS to see this stuff being sold as much as an actual antidepressant would!

if anyone would argue, first i need to speak to an actual person who can positively claim it helped his depression and prove to me he doesnt have association with the marketing assholes.

second, if i tried about as much as 7 brands and someone would claim "BUT UUH U PROLLY DID ONE SHITTY ONEEE UH" uh duh NO. i tried 7 ok, count them, assuming MAYBE 3-4 were cheap bad, fine, but at 7 i can positively say it doesnt work. take it from a person with actual depression too!



#14 Dichotohmy

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 09:00 PM

I'm afflicted with a chronic inflammatory condition, with recurrent bouts of systemic inflammation for kicks, with depression and other mood/pyschological problems as a consistent bonus and recurring problem. I have tried a lot of anti-inflammatories and curcumin (supplementary, whole turmeric, and pastes of oil and turmeric with piperine) has proved very disapointing in my experience.

 

On top of the weak MAO properties, the likely mechanism by which curcumin works for mood disorders is as an anti-inflammatory that can cross the BBB, which is the whole reason I tried it. The other downside to curcumin is that even if it does work effectively, it does not last for longer than 2-3 hours, so you need to find a way to consistently redose (not sure if a proprietary extended release supplement exists).



#15 Golodnyy

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 03:20 PM

I took Jarrow Curcumin a couple days ago, a minute dose, and I was the most productive I've been for days. My mood was also elevated. I can't seem to figure out what caused this. I did take this earlier this year and it produced the same effects. Believe it or not but it's the closest thing I've come to Adderall, which sounds ridiculous.

 

I looked it up and the type I took did not contain bioperine.

Which type of Jarrow Curcumin ?

 

Jarrow Formulas, Curcumin Phytosome

or

Jarrow Formulas, Curcumin 95

?



#16 Khaorg

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 09:19 PM

I am taking Turmeric Phytosome with Meriva almost 1.5 year. I also used to use Theracurmin for about 3 months.

I've never noticed any changes in my mood or any cognitive improvements.
 
Anyway like someone else mentioned here:

 

Curcumin has many other benefits though, so I still see taking it as worthwhile.

 



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#17 normalizing

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 03:31 AM

khaorg if you have no specific reason for taking it, why bother for example here http://nutritionfact...in-or-turmeric/ and i read an interesting study on its pro-oxidant effects but its been a while and i cannot find it so this is something to consider taken directly from the forum http://www.longecity...-a-pro-oxidant/







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: curcumin, maoi, depression, anxiety, antidepressant, rhodiola, brain 2.0

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