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Constant heart palpitations and adrenaline-like symptoms

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#61 6ort

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 09:38 AM

Hi there. Sorry you also have to go through this. It's sure one hell of a burden on everyday life. I didn't think many people shared these symptoms but I guess there are a few of us out there.

 

Anyway, there is one thing and one thing only that I can underline when considering things that help, I am not cured and don't know when I will be but I know what the only things that help me are.

 

Downers, downers, downers.

 

Seriously, it wasn't until I started taking them that I realised how wired and messed up I am even when at rest. You know that mellow, sitting peacefully, nothing's going on, kinda feeling? Haven't had it in well over 2 years! All these things, the constant heart pounding, the 'currents' flowing through my chest, the missed beats, waves of heat and needles and tension coming from the back and shoulders, it all points to one thing, my body is never truly at rest and is constantly in a state of over-excitation.

 

Once I started taking things like valerian and xanax I realised just how much 'off' I felt. These things brougth me a lot closer to that peaceful, normal feeling where I could just sit at rest and feel relaxed. Even my heart was more normal.

 

A couple days ago my doc also put me on a beta blocker, bisoprolol. This had great potential and I was really able to finally enjoy things again and do other things instead of focusing on my symptoms. Then something absurd happened. I started getting mouth ulcers. Within 3 days my mouth had several lesions that were totally inflamed and I could barely eat. I lost at least 5 lbs these past few days due to not being able to eat properly. I bought a preparation with hexetidine in it thinking it was just a bacterial thing, but even after a couple of days of using that it wasn't getting any better. 2 days ago I got what seemed to be a lesion on the inside of my gums that I can't see from the outside but hurts every time I move my mouth. This when I started getting worried and dropped the beta blocker for 2 days now, and my mouth lesions are healing. It's not a listed side effect but I found a few websites stating that beta blockers can cause them. What a shame. And now of course my symptoms seem to be intensifying again.

 

I will ahve to ask for a more cardioselective beta blocker, maybe nebivolol. I have to underline this, you probably should be on some kind of meds. This will NOT go away on its own. I'm here 2 years and still with it. It's a terrible thing. You practically have to force your body to cooperate again. Also, this is NOT just normal anxiety. Normal anxiety has manifestations in behaviour. I have no trouble going to college and interacting with people, no fear from it, hell I enjoy it ... BUT there is a total disconnect between my conscious mind and my body, my mind feels normal but the symptoms have a mind of their own. So nothing what I do consciously helps at all. I exercise, meditate, it's no use. Only the meds help. If you don't wanna go on meds then look for herbs. Start with valerian, it's mellow but punchy. Then work from there. Something ALWAYS works, just takes a while to find it. I wish someone told me these things 2 years ago. Best of luck and you can always come here for advice. I've been through the wringer in these 2 years so I have a good idea of how these problems work, just not good enough to solve them quite yet ;)

 

Also, one other thing that you could experiment with since you're female is progesterone. Look it up. But look for natural bio identical progesterone. I hear the Progest-E formulation by Ray Peat is good and helps quite a few people. If your symptoms are hormonal it's definitely worth a try.


Edited by 6ort, 19 December 2014 - 09:44 AM.


#62 Astroid

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 08:05 PM

A year ago for about 4 months I had this spasm like sensation in my lower left rib cage area.. Odd as heck feeling.. it would come and go.  Finally had an EKG and it was fine.. the MD thought ("Guessed" ) it was the lower back muscle spasms coming around.

 

Like I normally do I searched Muscle Spasms + Nutritional Deficiency, and Muscle

Spasms + Natural Treatments..  

 

Seems Magnesium + the amino acids Taurine and Arginine help prevent spasms.  

 

Just so happen I was already drinking Magnesium Bicarbonate Water.. that I make myself, as well as using up some old weight lifting supplements that had Arginine in it.. So I ordered bulk Taurine, the most abundant amino acid in the body by the way.. Purebulk.com is a good source.. 250 - 500 mg last forever. They also carry Arginine.. 

I added 1/4 teaspoon of Taurine and the spams stopped.. 

 

Then a couple of days I forget to take the Arginine..  and the spams returned.. sitting at my computer at night.  Trying to figure it out.. I remembered the Arginine.. and took it .. the spams stopped in 10 minutes !  Now I take Arginine and Taurine on a regular, but not daily bases. 

 

The odd thing was these spasms never occurred during or immediately after physical activity.. just sitting at the computer usually.  However, I had been getting calf and foot cramps while sleeping... but now they have also stopped. 

 

Taurine is mostly stored in the heart and is required with Magnesium for the muscle firing to work correctly. I believe it is also a Methyl donor.

 

I'd also suggest taking Folate, not folic acid.. or Methyl Pro Folate.. but I was already taking those before my spam events.       



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#63 Monapolis

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 02:22 AM

I'm glad 6ort that you have found temporary relief of the symptoms. I plan to continue finding a natural path for what is going on. I was prescribed Ativan so I'll give it a go for when things get bad. I do want to get my hormone levels tested to see exactly how messed up things are there. I guess since doctors just want to find a quick solution then the process of elimination is how it will go. I have to say though the fact that you've been dealing with this for 2 years and are still here to tell the tale gives me hope. I feel really bad that you have had to suffer through all this. I know when it gets really bad I truly feel like my heart is going to give out. I don't wish it on anyone.

FIGHT!! :D

I have a heart echo plus a stress echo scheduled for Jan. Life goes on... :)

 

Ps- I will do a bit more research on taurine Astroid. I've come across that on past google searches so may take it a bit more seriously. My cramping doesn't come when I exercise It's quite a random occurrence. :(


Edited by Monapolis, 21 December 2014 - 02:26 AM.


#64 6ort

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 02:29 PM

Thanks.

 

I did all those tests you mentioned, they all came back perfectly normal in my case ;-)

 

I am back on the bisoprolol, and I also take some anti-anxiety stuff. I was on xanax but it did not seem that significant in relieving my symptoms. The beta blocker seems to do most of the work. Thankfully, no mouth ulcers this time (yet). I take lavender oil currently, will see if that helps anything.

 

Still, even with all this, I'm still not normal. Still gotta pay some attention to what I eat and I still feel my heart beating, though less. That elusive peace is not quite there yet, I'm afraid.

 

On the other hand my thyroid results came back and my TSH climbed to a whopping 8 since I haven't been on medication. Back to the desiccated thyroid I guess. Not that those pills do much for me, but I still have to take them because having high TSH for a long time is really bad news. So there's that.

 

One other thing I am working on is getting my circadian rhythm in line. I force myself to wake up at 8 AM every day which makes me fall asleep at 10:30-11 PM. Much better than 2-3 AM I say.

 

I don't expect any of those things to bring miracles though I suppose they might have some kind of additive effect over a length of time.

 

In any case I feel better than I felt last year around this time, being able to spend the holidays without all that suffering is a nice thing. However, gonna be a while longer finding my way out of this whole mess I figure. Eh, as long as there's progress, I guess.


Edited by 6ort, 27 December 2014 - 02:31 PM.


#65 Astroid

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 02:51 AM

My spasms never occurred when I was physically active either.  That is one thing that surprised me.  Magnesium, Taurine and Arginine put an abrupt stop to them for me.       


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#66 Wuwei

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 11:44 AM

Hi, I just registered here after reading your thread. I have, in the past, experienced almost identical symptoms to what you described, triggered by an almost identical cause (presentation at university that was stressful) - mine started around one year prior, in late 2011.

 

My treatment approaches on the other hand, have differed greatly to yours - which is probably going to be quite useful, as we've essentially been covering entirely different ground into this 'uncharted territory' and the more understanding there is for others to follow, the better. I don't doubt that a great many people experience these symptoms at some point in life.

 

Something you might not have considered is that what changed on that day was your own awareness - i.e. you began to notice the day-to-day functioning of the body more strongly than you previously did. Prior to this, you may have only noticed the body and it's sensations when under intensely strenuous or emotional circumstances. This is probably how I'd best understand my own experience retrospectively. It's less 'pain' and more constant discomfort/ awareness of the body that wasn't previously there.

 

I personally had little interest in taking straight up anti-anxiety medication, I do not deny it could have helped with the physical symptoms (there is definitely a time and place for these and their effectiveness cannot be overlooked) - more that I felt that with time to explore I'd be able to understand it better and reduce the symptoms myself, the medication could be a later approach if all else failed.

 

Within the first year of the symptoms, my first port-of-call was to find anyone online with any symptoms similar and read up as much as I could about what it might actually be.

 

After a short amount of time I saw a million different explanations in a million different directions. I decided that I'd try to 'put myself in their shoes' and explore some of these possibilities in an attempt to see where they were coming from no matter how obscene or differing to my own worldview it appeared. At the same time I told myself I would remain alert and vigilant enough to be able to immediately disengage from whatever path I was exploring without getting wrapped up in it.

 

Within 3 years or so of digging/searching/scrapping I came across some highly potent insights. Things that entirely blew up my established worldview and how I saw things, gave me relief from the symptoms, if not in the way I intended. The most potent by far psychologically have been the core understandings of eastern philosophy along the lines of Taoism/Zen. As for the physiological aspect - Kundalini has an entire body of understanding on the mind-body that is truly fascinating to read up about. None of these understandings thus-far have required me to meditate in a cave for years - not that I doubt the effectiveness of that, either.

 

It's easy to disregard a lot of this stuff as 'spiritual mumbo-jumbo' and trust me, a lot of it is. A lot of it is spiritual mumbo-jumbo. A good portion of it is spiritual mumbo-jumbo that will lead nowhere (the irony of this will be obvious if you read this back in a few years). But, some of it is pure gold, entirely worth exploring in it's entirety, for the sake of it.

 

So my advice is to take that western empiricism and apply it like you know how, to these routes that you might have not have previously considered.


Edited by Wuwei, 29 December 2014 - 11:47 AM.


#67 6ort

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 06:55 PM

Yeah, it seems you've taken an entirely different approach. At first I wasn't keen on taking much of anything and believed it would resolve by itself, but it soon became apparent that wasn't happening.

 

I've simply gone through way too much pain in these 2 years to be able to take it anymore, it was a choice of either getting on meds or doing something bad to myself. I opted to fight by any means necessary, simply because I believe something as 'stupid' as this should be solvable.

 

As you point out my approach has mainly been the chemical one, simply because I live in a westernized part of the world and my knowledge of eastern medicine/spirituality is limited only to a couple of Chinese herbs that I know are effective.

 

Seeing as you've been exploring these things perhaps you could point me out to what I should start reading/practicing. As I have no idea how to separate the 'spiritual mumbo-jumbo' from the worthwhile stuff.

 

I have tried meditation but that's about it.

 

Aside from meds, the things that seem to help are running (albeit temporarily), and making sure I have a proper bedtime and wake up with daylight seems to be good for the overall disposition as well. However, I am still dependent on the meds to make it through the day. At least something helps now. I was lost with nothing for a very long time.



#68 factsmachine

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Posted 01 January 2015 - 12:11 PM

I must ask, what are beta blockers effects on Sexual performance, such as being able to get hard? 
I have lots of physical anxiety manifestations like pounding heart around people. I want to pound the girls, without a pounding heart rate (;

It sounds like you have an anxiety disorder. Since the tests have ruled out any obvious heart problems, this seems the likely conclusion. being overly aware of your heart rate is not helpful either, and tends to trigger more panic attacks.
anxiety would also make sense as to why taurine seems to help. (gaba agonist -> anxiolytic effects).

Do you exercise regularly? Do you consume cannabis, nicotine, or high amounts of caffeine?

My advice:
1) daily exercise of some form, weight training several times a week, cardio a few times a week. By getting your heart rate up in a healthy and necessary way, you will learn to disassociate a rapid heart rate with feelings of panic.
2) practicing mindful meditation (although it is possible that focusing too closely on your breathing could set off an anxiety attack)
3) nightly magnesium of ~400 mg.

I've had positive results from theanine. It is mild, but unique in its effects, and i think it is worth a try for anxiety, at 250-800mg range.

Beta blockers are not a bad option, but you should keep that in mind as a last resort, and first try to conquer the problem on your own. with a resting pulse of 50-60, beta blockers would probably not bring your HR too much considerably lower than this. Additionally, there have been some studies done in regards to beta blockers and fear extinguishing. The effects stay, even after you stop taking the beta blockers. However, there can be some rebound upon halting use. I do not think they are necessary for your situation.

 



#69 6ort

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Posted 01 January 2015 - 02:54 PM

 

I must ask, what are beta blockers effects on Sexual performance, such as being able to get hard? 
I have lots of physical anxiety manifestations like pounding heart around people. I want to pound the girls, without a pounding heart rate (;

 

None that I have noticed, in other words, everything works the same as it did before.



#70 mag1

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Posted 01 January 2015 - 07:11 PM

It would be worthwhile to consider what the driving force of the anxiety might be. Many of those on this thread have noted that their anxiety problems

began during the college years.

 

The authors of the book Superlearning noted that the current model of learning is entirely outdated and for many students causes extreme levels of stress and serious medical ailments. The book notes that a teacher from the 19th century (or earlier) would have little difficulty finding employment in the 21st century educational system. However, any other professional from that era would find considerable difficulty in competently performing their job. School makes people sick.

 

Why might this be? The learning technology currently used in educational settings is appallingly primitive. A textbook is a completely unprocessed learning resource. Turning a textbook into a useable learning resource ( i.e. processed into flash cards, computerized testing etc.) takes substantial effort. Further, in many courses it is not intended that the entire textbook should be learned. It is only expected that certain aspects of a subject should be studied. Unfortunately for many students it is never clear which specific aspects of the textbook should be focused on. It would be so much more efficient if students were simply given a flash card file as a leaning resource. 

 

What evidence supports the idea that education is currently outdated? One of the more startling examples is the achievement demonstrated by young people with video games. Video games provide a readily accessible platform to acquire a new skill. Video games do not require days of effort to format learning resources as would be required in formatting of a textbook into useable form. It is especially notable that frequently disaffected youth demonstrate extraordinary levels of achievement in playing video games. If education were made into a video game which could intensely engage young people, then a golden age of human accomplishment would almost certainly follow. 

 

I found the traditonal school system very stressful and I experienced many of the medical issues noted on this thread. However, ever since I enrolled in an online university I have noticed a complete change. By being able to control my educational experience ( the pacing, location, etc.) and fit it into my life, the stress problems that I used to have have disappeared. Those who have experienced school related stress should give online learning a try and notice the difference. When I have gone to write proctored examination for my online courses, I have felt absolutely no stress because I have overlearned the course material so much that I know the material extremely well. This is a slow learning approach, though you feel as though you have completely mastered subjects. Try it.



#71 Monapolis

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Posted 03 January 2015 - 04:20 AM

Unfortunately for me i have more symptoms than just those. This morning i was dealing with feeling light headed. About an hour after that my left arm started to feel weak. As the weak feeling started to spread over my arm i started getting pain in my back and to the left of my left breast. The pain is not new and the light headedness is not new either. The week arm however is. So i decided to come to the ER so that i can make sure i'm not hving a heart attack or stroke or anything like that. While here i had a heart rate spike. I started to feel warm and anxious so i took my heart rate and watched as it went from about 80 bpm up to 103 in ten seconds. I got up went to see a nurse, but by the time i managed to see her it had atarred to come down. My HR was about 92 so she just sent me back to the waiting room where i sit now waiting to see a dr. A) Why can the bad stuff never happen when its being monitored and B) What exactly is wrong with me!! :( So here i sit, chest is vibrating now and i still have the back pain. Breast pain keeps flaring up on the left and lower right side of my left breast. Living this life is so exhausting. *sigh*
On a pro-life note, i'm starting yoga. Taking it slow because i'm very physically rigid. No real flexibility. Hoping to work on that. Been doing a lot of reading up on multi vitamins. Also been reading on the bebefits of apple cider vinegar. There are pros and cons to all of this of course. I'll do the research then ask my dr if she sees a probl with me starting vitamins. Until i get really good at eating the foods that have what i need i worry i cery low on the essentials. :) Here's to me freaking out on the inside but moving forward for the better on the outside. :P Happy New Year btw everyone. :)

#72 6ort

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Posted 03 January 2015 - 01:24 PM

You should request a 24 hr holter monitor, that would hopefully pick up the variations in the heart rate, however unless you have something quite off in your heart rate, the prolly won't do jack sh*t about it (speaking from experience, that device does not even see my problem).



#73 StevesPetRat

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 05:34 AM

Oh, hey, I still follow this thread. Based on personal experience, I'd suggest megadosing B1 (you may want to add a B50 for the additional B vitamins to "balance" it, at a minimum get a few mg extra riboflavin) as thiamine mononitrate and / or allithiamine, benfotiamine, or sulbutiamine (another poster already suggested this; be a little more careful with that one as it has more psychoactive effects). Try up to 500 mg x 3 daily. I had good results with the cholinergic stack, but the thiamine really knocked out my autonomic heart rate problem. I had also started to develop mitral valve thickening on my last ECG; hoping this will reverse or halt it. You will need more magnesium if you take it. Try something like magnesium citrate or glycinate; they're still cheap but more bioavailable.

#74 fntms

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 10:32 PM

It might have been me suggesting the sulbutiamine, as it does indeed knock out my palpitations... I think deanol/dmae also worked at a low dose but it affected my mood more negatively than the sulbutiamine (depression). I still take low dose sulbutiamine maybe 90mg daily which has little nootropic or negative mood effects and avoid triggers like cocoa and alcohol. Coffee is fine.

#75 factsmachine

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 07:07 AM

You can get magnesium citrate at smiths as a liquid OTC laxative for a very very low price. I paid 1.05 for 10 ounces, 1.5 grams of magnesium per ounce.

#76 Monapolis

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 03:44 PM

Monday and Tuesday were horrible days for me. The vibrating was 24/7 and i had muscle spasms and cramps (whole body) to go along with that. I was having what i think may be esophagus spasms frequently as well. Plus bad IBS now. On top of that anxiety. I started taking cipralex yesterday, 150 magnesium on Tuesday I believe and am debating starting vit D and B12. I get body rushes (with no real effect to bp or hr), light headed and have SUPER sensory sensitivitly. My phone is about the only thing i can look at without wanting to throw up. Question. I was lying on a chair this morning (ezboy) and noticed my diastolic was down around 58. I got up and did the test a few more times and it came back up above 60. Is it normal to have low bp like that when lying down?

#77 6ort

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 06:37 PM

Not sure about the BP thing, my dyastolic is usually around 65. BP is mostly normal though, it hasn't changed when the symptoms appeared, compared to how it was before.

 

Here's a curious thing that used to (and still does, albeit a LOT less) happen to me, after I stretched, my heart would pound like bonkers, and random muscles would start twitching. This always went together. It lasted about 20-30 seconds.

 

Monapolis, you don't seem to be sure if the vibrating / spasm sensations are your heart or something else in that area? In my case it is very easy to know it is the heart, because my throat and fingertips also pulsate to the same beat, and I can see my chest jumping up and down much more than it should even with my shirt on. So I know this is not just an 'in my head' thing because I can physically see it happening :))

 

 

 

I am also about to start magnesium chloride, and hoping to try some progesterone, see if that helps.

 

I think this could be a good year, 2015, finally. I feel close. I can pinpoint very well exactly what is wrong with me, all the 'feels' that are off and shouldn't be there. My mind is also not as clear and sharp as it should be, I lack some of the focus I had before. I think this is related. The excessive sweating seems a bit tamer the last few days even though it's actually warmer. That's a good sign. I also handled oatmeal pancakes and homemade pizza with only slight issues, which I could not do before.

 

The beta blockers do help somewhat though. I will stay on them for now. The rest of the gameplan is stick to my sleep schedule (11-8 AM), do light exercise, treat my thyroid, take magnesium, try progesterone and try other remaining things I find with time.

 

I would like to work some spiritual stuff in there as well, but not sure where to begin.


Edited by 6ort, 10 January 2015 - 06:40 PM.


#78 6ort

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 08:39 PM

Small update.

 

I have been taking valerian root for all this time since it is the only thing to give relief. Still on the beta blockers as well. Now 3 days ago I tried Kava Kava. It works better than the valerian, a bit. But I won't be able to take it long term due to safety reasons.

 

So I am doing moderately on a daily basis. But this **** still isn't going away. It's been over two years now. Also, I have been meditating for a month now. I do it late at night when  I have a highest chance of concentrating.

 

I feel quite good late at night. Almost normal. My heart also beats the weakest at this time (it's least noticeable). In a way it makes me mad to see what I am missing and how I should be feeling. If I could feel like that all day long that would be perfect. I still feel the worst in afternoons. Not sure the reasons about that, maybe hormones?

 

Really need to find a decent GP who will let me trial some meds. This herbal stuff shows potential but it's just too weak.

 

Anyway, that's all for now.



#79 Bird52

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 06:58 PM

Hello. I've had the same symptoms you continue to have, I never thought I would ever find someone with the same symptoms. I've had them for over 4 years now. I'm a young male just like you, I'm 24. I've had just about every test known to man done (ekgs, stress test, echo, holter monitor, pulmonary tests, MRI of brain, blood tests) and they all tell me its anxiety, but I'm not buying it. Its like its just a pounding heart 24/7, with normal rate and bp. Like you, my symptoms get better at night, my heart almost beats like its normal again and then during the day it feels like its gonna blow up. The bad news is I havent found much relief from it at all but the good news is apparently its not going to kill you. I've had my ups and downs with it and it has really took its toll on me. I just thought I'd message you to let you know you're not alone.

#80 6ort

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 09:24 PM

Thanks, I'm really sorry you have to go through this as well... It doesn't seem like there are many people with these exact same symptoms. What have you tried so far?

 

Here's a thing, if you care to experiment somewhat, would you mind trying a valerian supplement? Preferably a liquid one as they are more potent. I'm really curious whether it would give you relief. I've been really depending on that stuff the past months.And kava-kava seems to be good as well. If you responded to these things as well that would definitely confirm to me that we have something of a similar nature.

 

And, yeah, it won't kill us, that what I've been told all the time... though I'd be lying if I said that sometimes it didn't make me wish I was dead.

 

Hope you stick around, I'd like to hear what you tried so far and maybe we can figure something out.


Edited by 6ort, 09 June 2015 - 09:25 PM.


#81 6ort

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 03:34 PM

Lately I wonder if I have high norepinephrine. Even though the metanephrine tests showed normal I don't think they are very representative of what is going on inside of the nervous system. They are more tuned to detecting adrenal tumors.

 

And, due to my very limited success with beta blockers I believe the problem may be more norepinephrine thatn epinephrine (which is more produced in the adrenals, and the former in the brain).

 

Here is something about Alpha-1 receptors from Wikipedia:

 

Those things closely match to my symptoms. Heart pounding all the time, excessive sweating even in winter, low sodium on blood tests and very high salt cravings (my family thinks I am crazy for salting so much and any food that I've prepared makes them almost sick)



#82 sciack

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 12:36 PM

Hi 6ort,

How are you? I hope you are getting better.

Maybe I can help you. Most of the things you went through have happened to me as well. The only difference is that when it happened to me I was on a different health stage. I was drinking at the time, overweight, not excercising much but, I think we have experienced the same shit anyway.

I will make it short. I also changed completely one day, I mean the day before I was perfect and the day after I wasn't the same.

I also never had problems with anxiety or panic attacks.

I always felt it as a very physical thing happening to me, and strongly refused to accept it as an anxiety related issue.

I fought with doctors who they would said it was anxiety.

Because nothing was passing in my mind that could have triggered those events.

This is a preface just to say that I totally understand how you feel. The difference in my case is that I had a slightly high BP and a resting HR of about 80 bpm.

This has happened to me: my dear grandma passed away and I was very related to her. It was a tremendous shock to me for many reasons also because I wasn't there but overseas and I couldn't get on time. Anyway. The day after I was at a mall having lunch and everything has started, all of the sudden, pounding heart, my eyes couldn't focus properly, sweating, almost a feeling of passing out, it lasted few seconds, but it scared me a lot. Then the next few days same episodes happened.
Then one morning I had to drive for a 2 hours and happened again while I was driving, but with much more violence I had these burning sensations on my chest, shivers, pounding heart, I could hear it in my neck and ears. I managed to drive to an hospital. I stayed three days and they run all the tests, MRI of brain and neck, heart ecg, ekg, holster, everything. After that doctors had two explainations : panic attack (I refused strongly to believe it was in my head) or vagus nerve issues. I have been to several specialists. I researched a lot online, I couldn't believe or accept the anxiety diagnosis. For months I couldn't function properly. Then, two things happened and I am not sure which one almost cured me because I started the two therapies altogether.


I was skeptical for both approach but desperate to find a solution. I have been to a chiropractor to manipulate my neck, I read that the vagus nerve can be somehow compressed in the neck, even if the MRI didn't see any abnormalities. And I started also a cure for anxiety but not with benzos which they don't cure anything but suppress only, but at the core with SSRI (sertraline is the one that less likely impact the heart), nebivolol which is a beta blocker but very selective to reduce the norpinephrine action on the heart and potassium supplements 750 meq twice a day. The doctor suspected that my potassium is the problem at least for the PVC. I forgot to tell you that I had also constant PVC like hundreds a day. With this combined cure, slowly in about 2 months I was almost cured. I don't feel like I am at 100% but almost there.

Few considerations:

Check your potassium levels, even if it is in the normal range Better to have it at 5 then 3.
Regarding anxiety, I learned that is not a mind issue, but this kind is a brain issue. I try to explain what I think it has happened to me and to you. A bigger than expected stress even happened, for me what the death of my grandmother for you the exam/school issue, this great shock caused some kind of imbalances in our brains. Yes the mind can affect the chemistry of our brain and once this happens then it becomes physical no more mental issue. Now we have a brain with this imbalance, probably serotonin (less) and norpinephrine (more than what we need) this imbalance is not easy to recover for some reason. This is why I believe SSRI is the best. I tried them all, stay away to antidepressants that increase norpinephrine of course. Only SsRIs are what we need.

Also nebivolol was great for me, but not sure if it is for you since you have already a low heart rate.

Ok now I'm lost, I have many thing to say but I have to go, if you need mor details let me know. Don't disregard the panic attack issue. It doesn't mean you are mentally unstable, it is physical, it is chemistry in the brain nothing you can do with psychology. You have to correct this imbalance. I never thought I would have ever experienced a panic attack, only after months of curing it then I realized that it was indeed panic attack.

Tell me about your potassium levels as well. Good luck


Edited by sciack, 29 July 2015 - 12:46 PM.

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#83 sciack

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 12:47 PM

sorry I am not english native ;)



#84 6ort

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 05:20 PM

Hi sciack. Thanks for telling your story here and I am sorry about your loss. I believe what you've experienced is in many ways similar and I feel that you understand very well the specifics of this problem.

 

Now...the chiropractor thing is interesting, I have considered at times before going to acupuncture or chiro just for kicks, to see what would happen... I may yet do that.

 

You are on nebivolol. I wanted to be put on that, but they put me on bisoprolol. I have been on this for almost a year now. It has helped me live through this year much easier, but I am still suffering from this.

 

The beta blocker supresses the pounding to the point where I can do some strengh training and cardio. As a result, over the summer I have lost around 4-5 kg and am almost back at the starting weight when all this happened (Nov 2012). I am becoming close to lean now. Without the beta blocker with all that pounding I definitely would not be able to exercise at all because it would just be too stressful and disruptive (and I am afraid of my heart working like that). I ride my bicycle for 90 mins or go wake up in the morning at 7:30 for a walk-jog 60 mins. And eat 1800 calories per day. Now I weigh 70 kg so I am very happy with that.

 

But while the beta blocker has definitely made my life easier the problem is still here and I have to cointinue taking it, but the problem is now I have lost weight and my blood pressure is too low with the beta blocker, and my already low pulse has now gone down to 39-41 so I am very scared about this. Yet even at that low pulse my heart still pounds.

 

So now I need to look for another medication and talk to my doctor. Also I am still taking valerian root. In the meantime I tried some other stuff:

 

-Phenibut

-Picamilon

-Magnesium Glycinate

-Kava Kava

-Berberine

 

This didn't help much. I am still stuck with the only working combo bisoprolol + valerian. When I stop bisoprolol I get worse, which mean ADRENALINE and/or NORADRENALINE are the problem. But they come from the brain. So I want to attack the brain. I want to talk to my doctor about CLONIDINE or GUANFACINE, that will be my next avenue. To see to normalize the peripheral sympathetic nervous system and lower the (nor)epinephrene. That could work. I will post back here about my results.



#85 Wrxdave

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 07:35 PM

I am very sorry you are going through this.

This sounds identical to the hell my sister went through for two years, even being schedule for cardiac ablation surgery and pacemaker implantation (in her early 30s!!) because her cardiologist could not see outside of his specialty (very common among doctors), and the disorder she had - Pheochromocytosis - is very rare, and although it's in the differential diagnosis, in the words of her best-in-his-class cardiologist: "Nobody ever has that"... Well, doc, until they do.

I know that very early on you stated that you had the urine catecholemine screening for it (adrenal tumors), however the urine screening can often be inaccurate, and I would urge you to revisit this issue with a GOOD endocrinologist and ask for the more difficult blood testing.

Pheochromocytosis can be fatal, yet there are also drugs that can suppress and block the effects of adrenaline which may provide you some relief in the interim. As you seem to already be trying natural remedies that have some effects there, you may wish to continue exploring further down that axis - while steering clear of things like the supplements tyrosine, phenylalanine (& aspartame), as both are precursors for norepinephrine.
Personally I would also steer clear of GABA supplementation, as I have some data that its effects in the peripheral nervous system are not the same as its in inhibitory effects in the brain & it can cause the sensation of palpitations (if any of it actually makes it through digestion & first pass metabolism).

Best wishes to you as you continue to seek relief.
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#86 Wrxdave

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 07:46 PM

You may wish to use the more common spelling of Pheochromocytoma when looking it up. The Wikipedia article on it is excellent. In particular the fact that Clonidine, which should solve your problem if it is anything else, is not terribly effective in Pheochromocytoma

#87 youngandold

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 12:08 AM

Low or even low-normal thyroid causes adrenaline excess.

#88 6ort

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 04:29 PM

I tried Clonidine about a month ago after hyping it up for such a long time. It was a complete failure, I felt dreadful on it and it didn't work at all.

 

My thyroid also seems to have taken a turn for the worse as my TSH has again risen up to 8 DESPITE being on 50 mcg Synthroid. I have now dumped the Synthroid and started taking NDT again, as that is the only thing that managed to bring my TSH down to zero before @ 3 grains, though did not help much with the symptoms.

 

However, it's giving me an energy boost and brought me out of the depression I started to fall into after New Year's, and considering my TSH is 8 it's no wonder I felt like I did.

 

Not really sure what to do at this point. I am going to continue treating my thyroid solely for the reason of keeping my TSH at a healthy level even though it doesn't make me feel much better, but I don't know who to go to next to get any sort of real diagnosis.

 

I really hate the afternoon crash I get lately as well, I'll do kinda fine in the morning then 6-9 PM I'm zombie mode, can barely move or think, and I am supposed to code in C++ and I can't think for shit during this time, it's ridiculous...



#89 selfaware

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 09:08 PM

Unfortunately for me i have more symptoms than just those. This morning i was dealing with feeling light headed. About an hour after that my left arm started to feel weak. As the weak feeling started to spread over my arm i started getting pain in my back and to the left of my left breast. The pain is not new and the light headedness is not new either. The week arm however is. So i decided to come to the ER so that i can make sure i'm not hving a heart attack or stroke or anything like that.

 

But you are.

 

You were almost certainly having an Angina attack...aka cardiac vasospasm.

 

Seriously.

 

I realize I'm a year later than your post....but just in case you never found out what is happening to you....

 

It sounds like the left-chest-pain/arm-weird began when you were NOT doing anything physically demanding, in which case it is Prinzmetal's Angina, aka "Atypical Angina". 

 

wiki it

 

I know....I had it too.  EXACT same symptoms.  Perhaps 9 attacks over 6 months.  Sometimes 2/day....then none for 2 or 3 weeks....then one....then a week later 2 in a day again...etc. etc..

 

Vitamin K2-MK7, good calcium intake, alpha-1 adrenergic blocker (e.g. prazosin, doxazosin, many other possibilities).  Beta-blocker might help, a little, but usually not...and they have their own sides.

 

Interesting thing about Prinzmetal's is that, upon exam, they almost always find that the artery is NOT half-blocked with atherosclerotic plaques, as in regular angina.

Yet the anti-atherosclerotic regimen above did work for me....along with some other things.

 

good fortune to you :)


Edited by selfaware, 04 October 2016 - 09:12 PM.


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#90 Majoreu

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:01 PM

Yeah my pulse never goes above 60 at rest. I don't know whose boat I'm in, can't find very many people with this problem...I wish I had some ideas.







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