37 replies to this topic

[castillo]

What is this wonder herb otherwise known as Kanna?  Is it overhyped?  That's how I felt when i ran out to try some Kava.  Kava worked well for an hour but didn't take away all my symptoms and it didn't help with sleep and gave me this heavy chest feeling.  I have tried Bacopa and didn't feel much either.  Same goes for St. Johns Wort.  I think Valerian and passion flower made me feel spacey and drowsy..almost like I'm drunk.  I'm currently trying out Rhodiola but I think it gives me heart palps.  I'm looking for something for my anxious depression and want to avoid being dependent or hooked on anything again.  So onward and upwards....Kanna.  So what is the consensus on these herbs?  Which one worked best for you?  I don't know how to do a poll so I'll just list them.

 

1. St.Johns Wort

2. Kava Kava

2. Theanine

3. Bacopa

3. Valerian

4. Passionflower

5. Kanna

6. Lemon balm

7. Sam-E

[YOLF]

Alot of the psychoactive stuff get over-hyped for their benefits just because they're psychoactive. Some can even be bad for you. IIRC Kava use is associated with either liver or kidney problems. 

[kelka]

St johns wort me very ill. I can't even describe what that did to my head. Theanine has helped me a lot with anxiety and mindfulness helps me with depression. It wasn't enough though so moved on to sulbutiamine and aniracetam. They have been helpful but don't feel like my longterm answer.
Look forward to hearing how you get on with manna.

[GoingPrimal]

1. St.Johns Wort - don't have much experience with it and haven't researched it, so I can't really comment, although it does have a lot of history behind it.

 

2. Kava Kava - much use with this herb. I rather enjoy it and find it very useful for stress, it's very calming. Look into a liquid tincture, pills standardized for kavalactones, or kavalactone paste - it's time consuming to prepare the traditional method and really doesn't taste good. The studies showing it to be harmful to the liver were from products that contain the stem, and not the root. Traditional use hasn't shown any liver problems to my knowledge.

 

2. Theanine - probably my second pick. Very safe, effective, noticeable - it would help with anxiety, but also has a very nice focusing effect, and pairs great with caffeine.

 

3. Bacopa - an awesome herb, but I think for your purposes there are better options.

 

3. Valerian - used more as a sleep aid isn't it?

 

4. Passionflower - tried a few times, does give a bit of a spacey feeling, can't comment on it's effectiveness for anxiety.

 

5. Kanna - had a sample so I've used it a few times. Effects serotonin levels right? It wasn't great in my opinion, I'd look for more GABAergic substances.

 

6. Lemon balm - I do recommend lemon balm - it's very mild, but taken continuously for some time might help.

 

7. Sam-E - I love SAM-e, lots of energy from it, good for so many things. Get some and give it a try, I was over my anxiety by the time I started using it so I can't comment how it affects that directly, but it's a known mood-booster.

 

My top picks would be a good kava extract, theanine and SAM-e. Don't try them all at once, start with whichever you prefer and give it a week or two. Stop use before trying a new one, and only after you've tried their effects independently would I suggest trying combinations.

 

 

[castillo]

Thanks for contributing!  Heres the thing, I have lyme disease so anxiety and depression is an ongoing thing till I can treat the bastard.  I really wanted Kava to work for me but I would have to take it several times a day just to feel relief, not a good long term option with the health warnings.

 

I have heard rave reviews about Theanine, but why do I get headaches from it no matter what brand I use?

 

I was really banking on Sam-e working for me.  I took it for 3 days working up from 25mg to final 100mg, by the time I got to 100mg my tinnitus was blaring and I had an internal vibrating.  I already had tinnitus from my benzo withdrawal but the Sam-e intensified the noise.  I am now off for 2 days and it has died down.  I do have to say that Sam-E did take away my doom and gloom depression though.  Just not great for anxiety I guess or maybe it shouldn't be taken when in benzo withdrawal.  I'm glad I worked my way up and didn't go in straight at 200mg, I can't imagine what kind of effect that would have had.

[KieranA001]

I have been taking kanna snuff 40X for about six months near on every day. It's really good for depression and anxiety but you'll find that it may cause some memory problems and it's a lot harder to recall memories after a couple days use. I feel dumb after taking it, but it defo makes you feel good.

 

I used to take it for my anxiety and depression and believe it has changed my brain chemistry perminantly. I feel anxiety free, or more about to do stuff without giving a rats ass. My personality has changed. It's like I just don't care anymore although I still am very emotional deep down. Memory gets better after stopping it, but you'll have to stop it for about 6 months. So, it's like a year's treatment therapy.

[YOLF]

You should discontinue the Kanna completely. Don't go back to it. As a general rule, don't sacrifice intelligence for anything. You'll always need it.

[renfr]

I have been taking kanna snuff 40X for about six months near on every day. It's really good for depression and anxiety but you'll find that it may cause some memory problems and it's a lot harder to recall memories after a couple days use. I feel dumb after taking it, but it defo makes you feel good.

 

I used to take it for my anxiety and depression and believe it has changed my brain chemistry perminantly. I feel anxiety free, or more about to do stuff without giving a rats ass. My personality has changed. It's like I just don't care anymore although I still am very emotional deep down. Memory gets better after stopping it, but you'll have to stop it for about 6 months. So, it's like a year's treatment therapy.

 

That's because kanna floods your brain with activation of serotonergic receptors, when you withdraw from the drug you experience a lack of serotonin which translates as impaired short term memory for example.

Same thing happens with SSRIs and 5ht2a agonists (lsd, psilocybin, ...).

 

It is a good thing because it causes dopamine dominance and helps with social anxiety notably, however prolonged use will inevitably cause short term memory loss.

There's a solution to that problem and it's taking some eggs the day after taking kanna or some choline.

Choline will inhibit dopaminergic activity and reinforce serotonergic activity, that's because serotonin and dopamine have an inverse relationship, the more dopamine you are the less serotonin you have and so on.

 

Interesting study about that effect :

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17481676

 

That's why SSRIs cause scary symptoms upon withdrawal, it's because your brain is totally depleted of its serotonin, hence why these drugs should only be used on the short term if for example you need a little boost in your dopaminergic function.

Edited by renfr, 15 April 2014 - 01:22 PM.

[castillo]

I have been taking kanna snuff 40X for about six months near on every day. It's really good for depression and anxiety but you'll find that it may cause some memory problems and it's a lot harder to recall memories after a couple days use. I feel dumb after taking it, but it defo makes you feel good.

 

I used to take it for my anxiety and depression and believe it has changed my brain chemistry perminantly. I feel anxiety free, or more about to do stuff without giving a rats ass. My personality has changed. It's like I just don't care anymore although I still am very emotional deep down. Memory gets better after stopping it, but you'll have to stop it for about 6 months. So, it's like a year's treatment therapy.

 

 

Does the 40x kanna have a mg dosage.  Was it 100mg or 500mg?

 

 

I have been taking kanna snuff 40X for about six months near on every day. It's really good for depression and anxiety but you'll find that it may cause some memory problems and it's a lot harder to recall memories after a couple days use. I feel dumb after taking it, but it defo makes you feel good.

 

I used to take it for my anxiety and depression and believe it has changed my brain chemistry perminantly. I feel anxiety free, or more about to do stuff without giving a rats ass. My personality has changed. It's like I just don't care anymore although I still am very emotional deep down. Memory gets better after stopping it, but you'll have to stop it for about 6 months. So, it's like a year's treatment therapy.

 

That's because kanna floods your brain with activation of serotonergic receptors, when you withdraw from the drug you experience a lack of serotonin which translates as impaired short term memory for example.

Same thing happens with SSRIs and 5ht2a agonists (lsd, psilocybin, ...).

 

It is a good thing because it causes dopamine dominance and helps with social anxiety notably, however prolonged use will inevitably cause short term memory loss.

There's a solution to that problem and it's taking some eggs the day after taking kanna or some choline.

Choline will inhibit dopaminergic activity and reinforce serotonergic activity, that's because serotonin and dopamine have an inverse relationship, the more dopamine you are the less serotonin you have and so on.

 

Interesting study about that effect :

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17481676

 

That's why SSRIs cause scary symptoms upon withdrawal, it's because your brain is totally depleted of its serotonin, hence why these drugs should only be used on the short term if for example you need a little boost in your dopaminergic function.

 

 

Doesn't Kanna work on both serotonin, dopamine receptors and others???
 

[KieranA001]

 

I have been taking kanna snuff 40X for about six months near on every day. It's really good for depression and anxiety but you'll find that it may cause some memory problems and it's a lot harder to recall memories after a couple days use. I feel dumb after taking it, but it defo makes you feel good.

 

I used to take it for my anxiety and depression and believe it has changed my brain chemistry perminantly. I feel anxiety free, or more about to do stuff without giving a rats ass. My personality has changed. It's like I just don't care anymore although I still am very emotional deep down. Memory gets better after stopping it, but you'll have to stop it for about 6 months. So, it's like a year's treatment therapy.

 

 

Does the 40x kanna have a mg dosage.  Was it 100mg or 500mg?

 

 

I have been taking kanna snuff 40X for about six months near on every day. It's really good for depression and anxiety but you'll find that it may cause some memory problems and it's a lot harder to recall memories after a couple days use. I feel dumb after taking it, but it defo makes you feel good.

 

I used to take it for my anxiety and depression and believe it has changed my brain chemistry perminantly. I feel anxiety free, or more about to do stuff without giving a rats ass. My personality has changed. It's like I just don't care anymore although I still am very emotional deep down. Memory gets better after stopping it, but you'll have to stop it for about 6 months. So, it's like a year's treatment therapy.

 

That's because kanna floods your brain with activation of serotonergic receptors, when you withdraw from the drug you experience a lack of serotonin which translates as impaired short term memory for example.

Same thing happens with SSRIs and 5ht2a agonists (lsd, psilocybin, ...).

 

It is a good thing because it causes dopamine dominance and helps with social anxiety notably, however prolonged use will inevitably cause short term memory loss.

There's a solution to that problem and it's taking some eggs the day after taking kanna or some choline.

Choline will inhibit dopaminergic activity and reinforce serotonergic activity, that's because serotonin and dopamine have an inverse relationship, the more dopamine you are the less serotonin you have and so on.

 

Interesting study about that effect :

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17481676

 

That's why SSRIs cause scary symptoms upon withdrawal, it's because your brain is totally depleted of its serotonin, hence why these drugs should only be used on the short term if for example you need a little boost in your dopaminergic function.

 

 

Doesn't Kanna work on both serotonin, dopamine receptors and others???
 

 

 

Well the one that I brought was 1 gram and it had a 10mg scoop with it in which you have to take 20mg to achieve the effects.

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item232f76b148
 

[renfr]

 

I have been taking kanna snuff 40X for about six months near on every day. It's really good for depression and anxiety but you'll find that it may cause some memory problems and it's a lot harder to recall memories after a couple days use. I feel dumb after taking it, but it defo makes you feel good.

 

I used to take it for my anxiety and depression and believe it has changed my brain chemistry perminantly. I feel anxiety free, or more about to do stuff without giving a rats ass. My personality has changed. It's like I just don't care anymore although I still am very emotional deep down. Memory gets better after stopping it, but you'll have to stop it for about 6 months. So, it's like a year's treatment therapy.

 

 

Does the 40x kanna have a mg dosage.  Was it 100mg or 500mg?

 

 

I have been taking kanna snuff 40X for about six months near on every day. It's really good for depression and anxiety but you'll find that it may cause some memory problems and it's a lot harder to recall memories after a couple days use. I feel dumb after taking it, but it defo makes you feel good.

 

I used to take it for my anxiety and depression and believe it has changed my brain chemistry perminantly. I feel anxiety free, or more about to do stuff without giving a rats ass. My personality has changed. It's like I just don't care anymore although I still am very emotional deep down. Memory gets better after stopping it, but you'll have to stop it for about 6 months. So, it's like a year's treatment therapy.

 

That's because kanna floods your brain with activation of serotonergic receptors, when you withdraw from the drug you experience a lack of serotonin which translates as impaired short term memory for example.

Same thing happens with SSRIs and 5ht2a agonists (lsd, psilocybin, ...).

 

It is a good thing because it causes dopamine dominance and helps with social anxiety notably, however prolonged use will inevitably cause short term memory loss.

There's a solution to that problem and it's taking some eggs the day after taking kanna or some choline.

Choline will inhibit dopaminergic activity and reinforce serotonergic activity, that's because serotonin and dopamine have an inverse relationship, the more dopamine you are the less serotonin you have and so on.

 

Interesting study about that effect :

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17481676

 

That's why SSRIs cause scary symptoms upon withdrawal, it's because your brain is totally depleted of its serotonin, hence why these drugs should only be used on the short term if for example you need a little boost in your dopaminergic function.

 

 

Doesn't Kanna work on both serotonin, dopamine receptors and others???
 

 

 

It indirectly works on dopamine receptors as well, by increasing their sensitivity.

 

The active compound of Kanna which is mesembrine is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, it is similar to SSRIs, except that it isn't selective at all.

[KieranA001]

 

 

I have been taking kanna snuff 40X for about six months near on every day. It's really good for depression and anxiety but you'll find that it may cause some memory problems and it's a lot harder to recall memories after a couple days use. I feel dumb after taking it, but it defo makes you feel good.

 

I used to take it for my anxiety and depression and believe it has changed my brain chemistry perminantly. I feel anxiety free, or more about to do stuff without giving a rats ass. My personality has changed. It's like I just don't care anymore although I still am very emotional deep down. Memory gets better after stopping it, but you'll have to stop it for about 6 months. So, it's like a year's treatment therapy.

 

 

Does the 40x kanna have a mg dosage.  Was it 100mg or 500mg?

 

 

I have been taking kanna snuff 40X for about six months near on every day. It's really good for depression and anxiety but you'll find that it may cause some memory problems and it's a lot harder to recall memories after a couple days use. I feel dumb after taking it, but it defo makes you feel good.

 

I used to take it for my anxiety and depression and believe it has changed my brain chemistry perminantly. I feel anxiety free, or more about to do stuff without giving a rats ass. My personality has changed. It's like I just don't care anymore although I still am very emotional deep down. Memory gets better after stopping it, but you'll have to stop it for about 6 months. So, it's like a year's treatment therapy.

 

That's because kanna floods your brain with activation of serotonergic receptors, when you withdraw from the drug you experience a lack of serotonin which translates as impaired short term memory for example.

Same thing happens with SSRIs and 5ht2a agonists (lsd, psilocybin, ...).

 

It is a good thing because it causes dopamine dominance and helps with social anxiety notably, however prolonged use will inevitably cause short term memory loss.

There's a solution to that problem and it's taking some eggs the day after taking kanna or some choline.

Choline will inhibit dopaminergic activity and reinforce serotonergic activity, that's because serotonin and dopamine have an inverse relationship, the more dopamine you are the less serotonin you have and so on.

 

Interesting study about that effect :

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17481676

 

That's why SSRIs cause scary symptoms upon withdrawal, it's because your brain is totally depleted of its serotonin, hence why these drugs should only be used on the short term if for example you need a little boost in your dopaminergic function.

 

 

Doesn't Kanna work on both serotonin, dopamine receptors and others???
 

 

 

It indirectly works on dopamine receptors as well, by increasing their sensitivity.

 

The active compound of Kanna which is mesembrine is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, it is similar to SSRIs, except that it isn't selective at all.

 

 

Is their anything I can take OTC to do the opposite. I have noticed it makes my brain fog worse so I need the complete opposite. I also have a non clear mind... It doesn't feel focused on my suroundings and acts quite spacy. and visial images seem to lack quality and my concentration is really bad.
 

[castillo]

 

 

Is their anything I can take OTC to do the opposite. I have noticed it makes my brain fog worse so I need the complete opposite. I also have a non clear mind... It doesn't feel focused on my suroundings and acts quite spacy. and visial images seem to lack quality and my concentration is really bad.
 

 

 

Whoa that seems to be the opposite of how other people describe kanna effects.  Usually you're more clear headed and social and surroundings such as nature looks more vivid.  Goes to show you how different we all are.

 

The pills I ordered are 50mg.  I may need to start off with half a capsule.
 

[Ritchie]

 

 

 

Is their anything I can take OTC to do the opposite. I have noticed it makes my brain fog worse so I need the complete opposite. I also have a non clear mind... It doesn't feel focused on my suroundings and acts quite spacy. and visial images seem to lack quality and my concentration is really bad.
 

 

 

Whoa that seems to be the opposite of how other people describe kanna effects.  Usually you're more clear headed and social and surroundings such as nature looks more vivid.  Goes to show you how different we all are.

 

The pills I ordered are 50mg.  I may need to start off with half a capsule.
 

 

Yes, start of small and see how you react to it. In my experience, kanna is just an SSRI which is stronger than most anti-depressants, except it has a much shorter duration of action. If Kanna doesn't work for you, try giving 5htp a try. Its a serotonin precursor and has been shown to be as effective as anti-depressants in certain cases. Just make sure to also take a dopamine precursor like L-tyrosine with it to balance out the effects(Serotonin supresses dopamine and vice versa)

 

[castillo]

Ok just a little update.  I got my kanna in and started with half a pill which is 25mg at 8 pm last night.  A short while after I notice lights are brighter but it doesn't do anything anxiety wise.  If anything i feel a bit more jittery and sad.  I start feeling a little spacey like my head is a helium balloon.  I actually got tired at night on my own this time without needing melatonin.  This could be a coincidence as I only slept 4 hours night before and I was super tired, but who knows really.  But I woke up sorta startled this morning with my heart slightly pounding after 5 hours of sleep.  I haven't woken up in an anxious state in quite a while so this is a surprising to me.  Is this normal?  Do I stick it out?  Also, has anyone taken kanna with a benzo?? Just in case I get into a bad state with Kanna.

Edited by castillo, 23 April 2014 - 01:46 PM.

[Ritchie]

Ok just a little update.  I got my kanna in and started with half a pill which is 25mg at 8 pm last night.  A short while after I notice lights are brighter but it doesn't do anything anxiety wise.  If anything i feel a bit more jittery and sad.  I start feeling a little spacey like my head is a helium balloon.  I actually got tired at night on my own this time without needing melatonin.  This could be a coincidence as I only slept 4 hours night before and I was super tired, but who knows really.  But I woke up sorta startled this morning with my heart slightly pounding after 5 hours of sleep.  I haven't woken up in an anxious state in quite a while so this is a surprising to me.  Is this normal?  Do I stick it out?  Also, has anyone taken kanna with a benzo?? Just in case I get into a bad state with Kanna.

When trying anything new, always try it on a full night sleep. I have found certain supplements to have no, or even negative effects when sleep deprived. When I was fully rested, however, those same supplements had very positive effects.

[castillo]

Thnx for quick reply.  Well considering I was already lacking sleep and Kanna was suppose to help with sleep i would assume last nights sleep would have been deeper or more comfortable.  Instead it caused restless sleep.  I do vaguely remember I was dreaming alot too.  It has got to be doing something to my brain.  Do you think it's like the start ups of an SSRI antidepressant, where it makes anxiety worse before starting to work? Also do you know whether it can be mixed with benzos like ativan or klonopin in case I do get panic attacks on it?

Edited by castillo, 23 April 2014 - 02:25 PM.

[Ritchie]

Thnx for quick reply.  Well considering I was already lacking sleep and Kanna was suppose to help with sleep i would assume last nights sleep would have been deeper or more comfortable.  Instead it caused restless sleep.  I do vaguely remember I was dreaming alot too.  It has got to be doing something to my brain.  Do you think it's like the start ups of an SSRI antidepressant, where it makes anxiety worse before starting to work? Also do you know whether it can be mixed with benzos like ativan or klonopin in case I do get panic attacks on it?

Kanna is an SSRI just with a stronger effect and shorter duration of action than most prescription SSRIs. Anything that effects serotonin can cause anxiety and vivid dreams, but it depends on you and your specific biochemistry.

Also have you tried 5htp? It has been shown to be as effective as prescription SSRIs in certain cases.

Edited by Ritchie, 23 April 2014 - 10:31 PM.

[castillo]

I have tried 5htp and it gave me heart palps from hell! I tried tryptophan too and it made me so tired followed by heart palps after longer use.

Kanna has a funny effect. So far i feel depression lifting a bit but anxiety is still around. I wonder if this is the stimulation at lower doses and if i up the dose i may feel the sedating effect???

[Ritchie]

I have tried 5htp and it gave me heart palps from hell! I tried tryptophan too and it made me so tired followed by heart palps after longer use.

Kanna has a funny effect. So far i feel depression lifting a bit but anxiety is still around. I wonder if this is the stimulation at lower doses and if i up the dose i may feel the sedating effect???

Some people feel kanna is stimulating, other say it's sedating. It all depends on you and how your brain reacts to it. You can try it at higher doses, just ramp it up very slowly, you may react badly to higher doses.
On a Side note, have you looked at honokiol? It has shown anti depressant as well as analgesic activity. Another thing to look at is chinese skullcap as it contains wogonin which exhibits anti anxiety effects without causing sedation or muscle relaxation. Some of the other alkaloids in chinese skullcap have also exhibited dopamine reuptake activity.

[castillo]

Thanks for the reply.  Just a little update.  I made my way up to 150mg and I found myself having this unbearable feeling like my head is filled with helium.  I felt this even when I was only on 75mg.  I took 150mg yesterday and never slept last night and I'm having panic attacks in my sleep.  This helium head is still with me even after almost 24 hours.  So basically at this dose I am more anxious and more depressed.  Someone said something to me and I seem to ruminate it in my head and in my sleep.  Should I stop it for the day or should I just go down to 50mg?  Can it be taken at night so I avoid the spacey helium brain feeling?  How long does this Kanna effect stay in the body?

 

I think i have tried honokiol in a supplement called Relora.  Its magnolia bark or something like that.  I found it helped with the anxiety and cortisol surges but did nothing for the god awful depression.  Can Relora be taken with Kanna?  They say Relora shouldnt be taken with a ssri and I know that kanna is like an SSRI.  But I swear Relora worked on gaba receptors and cortisol.  I think relora gave me rebound anxiety when it wore off throughout the day.

 

 

[Ritchie]

Thanks for the reply.  Just a little update.  I made my way up to 150mg and I found myself having this unbearable feeling like my head is filled with helium.  I felt this even when I was only on 75mg.  I took 150mg yesterday and never slept last night and I'm having panic attacks in my sleep.  This helium head is still with me even after almost 24 hours.  So basically at this dose I am more anxious and more depressed.  Someone said something to me and I seem to ruminate it in my head and in my sleep.  Should I stop it for the day or should I just go down to 50mg?  Can it be taken at night so I avoid the spacey helium brain feeling?  How long does this Kanna effect stay in the body?
 
I think i have tried honokiol in a supplement called Relora.  Its magnolia bark or something like that.  I found it helped with the anxiety and cortisol surges but did nothing for the god awful depression.  Can Relora be taken with Kanna?  They say Relora shouldnt be taken with a ssri and I know that kanna is like an SSRI.  But I swear Relora worked on gaba receptors and cortisol.  I think relora gave me rebound anxiety when it wore off throughout the day.
 
 

Kanna is a SSRI except that it is stronger than prescription SSRIs and has a shorter duration of action. Everything you listed are common side effects from prescription SSRI. I think you should move away from your serotonin system and look at your GABA system because you said honokiol(a GABA modulator) gave you relief from anxiety.
Just try to cut out the Kanna for now and put it aside. If relora helps than just stick to that for now. Another GABA modulator you can look into is Wogonin. It's found inside chinese skullcap but I wouldn't expect much from the actual herb.You might have to look at buying pure Wogonin. I have to ask, does your depression make you feel extremely tired or unmotivated, like its difficult to get going in the morning? Or are your energy levels fine but you just have an empty feeling of sadness and have troubles sleeping?

Edited by Ritchie, 28 April 2014 - 04:11 PM.

[castillo]

Oh my depression is definitely the type that brings on tiredness and leaving me unmotivated.  My messy room is a reflection of that, I can't even see the color of my floor.  But my depression also brings about anxiety or vice versa.  I am trying to look up interacts between relora and kanna.  I love Kanna for getting me out of depression at a lower dose but I still felt anxiety and cortisol surges.  If I can mix them I think that would be amazing!!!

 

I will look into the skullcap.  Can I mix Kanna with it?

Edited by castillo, 28 April 2014 - 07:55 PM.

[castillo]

I had to laugh at myself..I forgot to mention I am in the middle of benzo withdrawal and am off Celexa for 4 months after a 2 year taper.  So for sure its my GABA system going haywire and I took Kanna hoping it would get rid of depression and anxiety without making it worst..  Its been advised not to take anything to disturb the GABA receptors.  I've tried Bacopa to upregulate GABA but I'm pretty sure it didn't work like Relora.  Because it worked so well..it scared me to think that it may be prolonging my recovery.  I have read a list that Relora is okay for benzo withdrawal but then read many threads where they say Relora works on either GABA A or B receptor.  I'm so confused.

Edited by castillo, 28 April 2014 - 09:18 PM.

[Ritchie]

I had to laugh at myself..I forgot to mention I am in the middle of benzo withdrawal and am off Celexa for 4 months after a 2 year taper.  So for sure its my GABA system going haywire and I took Kanna hoping it would get rid of depression and anxiety without making it worst..  Its been advised not to take anything to disturb the GABA receptors.  I've tried Bacopa to upregulate GABA but I'm pretty sure it didn't work like Relora.  Because it worked so well..it scared me to think that it may be prolonging my recovery.  I have read a list that Relora is okay for benzo withdrawal but then read many threads where they say Relora works on either GABA A or B receptor.  I'm so confused.

Your depression sounds much more dopamine related than serotonin related. Depression caused by dopamine deficiency generally presents with symptoms of unmotivation and fatigues. Depression caused by serotonin deficiency presents with trouble sleeping, high energy, feeling sad etc.
So in your case you need to increase dopamine, not serotonin. Taking kanna would probably worsen your depression. Look into dopamine precursors like tyrosine. Your anxiety also seems like its unrelated to serotonin. I think your anxiety is caused by GABA issues. So look into GABAergic supplements. Kava would be very good for your anxiety. It acts as a GABA agonist and up regulates GABA in the long term. Why didn't kava work for you? Did it just make you feel to sedated/drunk? If that's the case just try to take a much Lower dose.

[castillo]

Well I do feel sad and my sleep is all disrupted.  I go two days with no sleep and then crash and sleep for 12 hours and its just all over the place.  Another thing i suffer from is OCD.  This happened ever since i tried to get off Celexa.  Anything that is dopamine related makes me jittery.  Is Rhodiola a good source for dopamine??  Kanna seems to do better for the depression than Rhodiola.  I may give Kava kava another go.  I couldn't take it cause it made me sedated and gave me this horrible chest pressure like i couldnt take in a breath.  I really really like Relora but so scared to due to the warnings not to take with a SSRI.

Edited by castillo, 29 April 2014 - 03:45 AM.

[Ritchie]

Well I do feel sad and my sleep is all disrupted.  I go two days with no sleep and then crash and sleep for 12 hours and its just all over the place.  Another thing i suffer from is OCD.  This happened ever since i tried to get off Celexa.  Anything that is dopamine related makes me jittery.  Is Rhodiola a good source for dopamine??  Kanna seems to do better for the depression than Rhodiola.  I may give Kava kava another go.  I couldn't take it cause it made me sedated and gave me this horrible chest pressure like i couldnt take in a breath.  I really really like Relora but so scared to due to the warnings not to take with a SSRI.

So just to be clear, you feel sad/empty, have no energy, are unmotivated, have terrible insomnia, have trouble getting up in the mornin, have anxiety, have OCD.

Anything that is dopamine related(tyrosine etc.) makes you angry and jittery.

Anything that is serotonin related(5htp, kanna etc.) gives you heart palps.

Kava makes you feel drunk and made you feel like you couldnt breath out of anxiety.

Relora eliminated your anxiety but not your depression.

 

Is this all correct?

 

[castillo]

Correcto mondo, except that Relora gives me anxiety when it wears off so I was taking it three times a day.  I really think there is something wrong with me.  I thought Kanna would be a breeze considering SSRIs have always agreed with me.  Maybe my CNS is all super sensitive from getting off the drugs?

[Galaxyshock]

Benzo withdrawal is probably the culprit why you can't really tolerate anything. Bacopa could be worth a try to reverse GABA-receptor function and it's also anti-depressive.

[Ritchie]

Correcto mondo, except that Relora gives me anxiety when it wears off so I was taking it three times a day.  I really think there is something wrong with me.  I thought Kanna would be a breeze considering SSRIs have always agreed with me.  Maybe my CNS is all super sensitive from getting off the drugs?

Well, have you had any success with Kanna right now? If it works, stick to it. Now look around for some Kava. Except this time take 1/10 of the dose you took last time. Small doses have an anti anxiety effect without noticeable sedation.

Try to combine a dopamine and serotonin precursor into your regime. But not at the same time. (Tyrosine in the morning, and tryptophan in the evening). But do everything one step at a time and in small doses.