18 replies to this topic

[StevesPetRat]

Well, I guess I'll never learn. Been dealing with some... unusual... health issues lately. Amongst other things I half-broke my liver and that's when I discovered just how acutely sensitive my brain is to inflammation. I experience it as an unrelenting agitation.

Apparently I have developed some kind of food allergy because I find occasionally after I go out to eat that 6 or so hours later I start to get that wound up feeling along with itchy eyes and sometimes skin flushing. I experience soul breaking "anxiety" for up to several days then it fades. But I have goddamn near broken myself from stress over the past several months -- have the autonomic dysfunction of an elderly lady -- and I really can't take much more suffering through this crap. I know I know don't go out to eat.

Well, it's started again. Are there any fast acting agents to help suppress these effects? Just knowing it's an allergic / inflammatory reaction doesn't help all that much. I am trying big (10 mg) doses of melatonin based on what I have learned of its amazing properties but not sure how well that will work during sunlight.

I like this board because this would sound nuts to my friends but pretty reasonable to y'all. Thanks.

[8bitmore]

Would suggest trying out combination of Piracetam and Aspirin as per this thread since Aspirin is a known fast acting anti-inflammatory and Piracetam seems to mitigate its problematic effects. Main thing is to follow what seems to be almost your own advice already - no moderate/beneficial drug intake is going to be able to buffer severe stress, get at the life circumstance that is the causal agent!

[marolysis]

You have an anxiety disorder. If you go to a doctor, she'll prescribe something for you and you'll feel better in a few weeks.

[Rior]

Curcumin is an absolutely fantastic anti-inflammatory. I messed up my ankle skiing a week and a half ago, and I've since found that while Ibuprofen reduces the swelling, Curcumin+ibuprofen reduces it about 3x more. That said, it has been seen in many, many studies (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) and more that have shown its anti-inflammatory properties, and when *dosed appropriately and in the correct manner* it has seen decent bioavilability and decent capacity for crossing the blood-brain barrier. This a particular supplement where the success of it is entirely dependent on the brand and variety you purchase, as pure curcumin has absolutely horrendous bioavailability.  Some people recommend Curcumin+Piperine, as this does increase bioavailability, but I've noticed the best effects from BCM-95.  The brand I use is found here, but the Life-extension brand should probably be strong as well.  The curcumin I take has a pretty pronounced effect though, and if I take too much I've found a racing heart and mild anxiety. While these aren't great effects, they're certainly indicative of the fact that the curcumin I'm taking *is actually bioavailable* and affecting my body. That, and the huge anti-inflammatory effects. The side effects are largely avoidable so long as you aren't taking 8 times the recommended dose, as I was doing for a brief time to help with my ankle. 

 

Aside from Curcumin, as it's been mentioned above, Piracetam has some anti-inflammatory effects that could provide use in also acting as a mild anxiolytic. One recommendation to you, though, is that you dramatically cut back on your melatonin usage. Melatonin is honestly only useful up to about 500-800 MICROgrams. That's how much the body needs to correctly process as a hormone and signal "no day light, go to sleep." 10mg is likely detrimental to what you're trying to achieve. I usually take a 3mg tablet and split into a fourth if I'm trying to get to sleep, though it makes it pretty hard for me to wake up so I tend to avoid it. 

 

I might also recommend that the issues you're undergoing are less related to inflammation, and more related to whatever substances you're using. Judging by your comments on your liver, I'm assuming it's a fairly hefty amount of alcohol. Same boat I was in for a little while. If you've been drinking a ton, you're likely to have protracted alcohol withdrawals that can last 6 months, and sometimes up to a year. These are different effects from the acute withdrawals. That said, these protracted withdrawals can include downregulation in your production of GABA/GABA receptor availability, and dramatically reduced production of neurotrophic factors. The neurotrophic factor aspect is what I believe is most highly correlated with depression and anxiety following the cessation of acute alcohol withdrawals.  That said, anything you can use to upregulate your production of neurotrophic factors (BDNF, largely) will make you feel the best. SSRIs have been shown to do so following acute alcohol withdrawals, but I really don't recommend them as they have a whole host of other side effects and can potentially make neural inflammation worse (we're not sure about that yet).  Curcumin though, again, has been shown to upregulate BDNF (another study).  The best and greatest way to improve your condition though, as far as I'm concerned, is use of Cerebrolysin (<--link to the thread here on Longecity, here's a study). The effects that I've seen from cerebrolysin following long-term, high alcohol use, have been nothing short of lifechanging.  Best supplement I've ever used for just about anything, hands down.

[StevesPetRat]

Thanks 8bit, do you think aniracetam would also work? I have an old, hmm really old, bottle of that lying around.

Marolysis, I suppose that I have the unreliable narrator problem, but I've tried that route. Xanax may be a great party drug but if anything it made my physical symptoms worse though I didn't care so much. A one month trial of Lexapro, which 10 years ago was helpful for some depression, made the anxiety and insomnia much worse. I had blood work done recently during a period when I was feeling relatively well and my hs-CRP and ESR were both low. Contrast the following
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3117562/
http://www.sciencedi...165572811003584
P.S. anxiety is not known for causing POTS, dry eyes, hypohidrosis, a drop in basal body temperature, etc. Nevertheless I do have something in the works which may help with both.

[StevesPetRat]

Wow Rior thanks. I think the side effects you experienced may be due to the MAO-i effects of the circumin. I was more of a weekend warrior with booze but my doctor didn't warn me about the synergistic hepatotoxicity between alcohol and an antifungal he prescribed. Oops. Still the cerebrolysin sounds promising.

[marolysis]

Marolysis, I suppose that I have the unreliable narrator problem, but I've tried that route. Xanax may be a great party drug but if anything it made my physical symptoms worse though I didn't care so much. A one month trial of Lexapro, which 10 years ago was helpful for some depression, made the anxiety and insomnia much worse. I had blood work done recently during a period when I was feeling relatively well and my hs-CRP and ESR were both low. Contrast the following
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3117562/
http://www.sciencedi...165572811003584
P.S. anxiety is not known for causing POTS, dry eyes, hypohidrosis, a drop in basal body temperature, etc. Nevertheless I do have something in the works which may help with both.

 

https://en.wikipedia...zation_disorder

 

You have a typical presentation of a common, treatable psychiatric disorder. Bring a list of your symptoms and your test results to a psychiatrist. If there is any reason to suspect that you do, in fact, have an unusual neurological disorder, she will refer you to a neurologist who can give you an actual diagnosis.

[eon]

I was looking into getting some antiinflammatory that isn't aspirin or ibuprofen. What would you guys recommened? I looked into Isoprinosine since it was praised in the Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw book Life Extension. I know little about it. Some people like it some don't. I read it's great for herpes as well. Some online pharmacy had Isoprinosine listed as an anti inflammatory. There's a thread about Isoprinosine on this forum. I think Isoprinosine is similar to Inosine but some people imply they are one in the same. Although Isoprinosine is prescription only and NOT available in the U.S.

 

Does a "real" anti inflammatory drug need to be a steroid?

 

Scientists Discover 'Trick' Steroids That Can Suppress Inflammation

 

http://www.dddmag.co...245672&type=cta

 

"A new “trick” steroids use to suppress inflammation, which could be used to make new anti-inflammatory drugs without the harmful side effects of steroids, has been discovered by researchers at Georgia State University."

 

"Glucocorticoids, a class of steroid hormones, are among the most commonly used anti-inflammatory agents. "

 

"There is an urgent need to develop novel anti-inflammatory strategies to combat inflammation, which is the cause of many human diseases. Inflammation has been linked to cancer, pulmonary diseases, infectious diseases, neurological diseases, arthritis, otitis media (ear infections) and obesity."

 

“Chronic inflammatory diseases last for months and years, so you have to have a medicine that can be used for treating inflammation for the long term without having side effects."

 

“We have found steroids also suppress inflammation by upregulating IRAK-M, a key negative regulator of inflammatory pathways."

 

Which glucocorticoids have less side effects? Are the androgenic anabolic steroids considered anti inflammatory then as well? Would the eye drop anti inflammatory work as well as the orals tablets? I see dexamethasone (a glucocorticoid) sold online as eye drops. What is up with that? Even Visine eye drops with tetryzoline is sold as an anti inflammatory.

 

"Glucocorticoids have also been shown to have a significant impact on vigilance (attention deficit disorder) and cognition (memory).

 

Long-term exposure to glucocorticoid medications, such as asthma and anti-inflammatory medication, has been shown to create deficits in memory and attention both during and, to a lesser extent, after treatment,[11][12] a condition known as "steroid dementia."[13]" Wiki on glucocorticoid

 

 

Edited by eon, 19 January 2015 - 03:59 PM.

[StevesPetRat]

Ah wow, this reminds me how bad of shape I was in back in April. I never did personally get great results from curcumin, but fisetin does help for both systemic inflammation and cognitive problems. Acetylcholine has anti-inflammatory effects, to the point that getting sick while deficient can possibly cause dementia.

P.S. The worst offending foods I finally figured out were both corn and wheat. Whereas they caused little problem for me in the past, with all the other crap going on, I'm sensitive to them now, with exposure effects lasting a couple days. Only anxiety I have now is a "conditioned response" to certain situations which can be easily "turned off". Marolysis is probably still clucking that I need to get to a shrink; would probably be on antipsychotics by now if I'd gone with that route, after worsening with anticholinergic after anticholinergic.

[gamesguru]

I'm going to recommend a list of anti-inflammatory foods/supplements. Even if they don't reach the brain, they'll be healthy for your other organs..

 

 

Quinoa or rice

Lentils, beans, or dry peas

Salmon, sardines, shrimp, or scallops

Almonds, cashews, walnuts, pistachios, peanuts, or sunflower seeds

Cherries and berries (including kiwi and cran)

Cruciferous and allium vegetables

Ginger and turmeric (already mentioned)

Olive oil

Bell peppers, sweet potatoes, tomatoes, beets, pineapple, papaya, and citrus fruits get honorable mention

 

Green tea (sencha)

Chocolate (72%+)

Bacopa
Fish or at least flax oil (if not eating seafood)
Ginkgo, American ginseng, and boswellia get honorable mention

 

 

Edited by gamesguru, 19 January 2015 - 08:04 PM.

[HappyShoe]

I had encephalitis(brain swelling) once, and my doctor prescribed me Diclofenac Sodium. It's a powerful anti inflammatory. I don't know if it could be used long term, or if it would be ok with your liver, but ask your doc about it? If it's occasional it could be worth a shot. As far as your liver, you can fix it as long as you don't get hepatitis. TUDCA(an expensive bile salt you can buy online), don't use it long term, but a 1-2 month cycle along with Polyenylphosphatidyl Choline(not just regular choline, has to be this one exactly), along with Milk Thistle(Silymarin), will go a lot way towards healing your liver, provided you abstain from any stressors to it, like alcohol, for a while. Whenever you take things that are hard on your liver, make sure you also have been taking N-Acetyl-Cysteine, since it is also protective of the liver since it is a factor in Glutathione synthesis, and it is used to treat acetominophen(tylenol) overdose.

Edited by HappyShoe, 19 January 2015 - 08:16 PM.

[Fenix_]

NAC and ALA both increase glutathione levels. ALCAR is synergistic with these for neuroprotection. These are all very cost-effective options.

[Dichotohmy]

Ah wow, this reminds me how bad of shape I was in back in April. I never did personally get great results from curcumin, but fisetin does help for both systemic inflammation and cognitive problems.

 

Same bad times here when it comes to ongoing and somewhat cyclical body/brain inflammation and altered cognition. Among other reputable supplements, EPA/DHA and longvida curcumin might as well be sugar pills for me.

 

What brand and dosage of fisetin did you get results from?

[eon]

Couldn't you have tried diphenhydramine (benadryl) as an anticholinergic? Puts you to sleep as well so you could've used some rest!

 

Ah wow, this reminds me how bad of shape I was in back in April. I never did personally get great results from curcumin, but fisetin does help for both systemic inflammation and cognitive problems. Acetylcholine has anti-inflammatory effects, to the point that getting sick while deficient can possibly cause dementia.

P.S. The worst offending foods I finally figured out were both corn and wheat. Whereas they caused little problem for me in the past, with all the other crap going on, I'm sensitive to them now, with exposure effects lasting a couple days. Only anxiety I have now is a "conditioned response" to certain situations which can be easily "turned off". Marolysis is probably still clucking that I need to get to a shrink; would probably be on antipsychotics by now if I'd gone with that route, after worsening with anticholinergic after anticholinergic.

 

[eon]

Life Extension sells the combo of Milk Thistle with phosphatidylcholine, not sure if it's the same type you mentioned but just pointing out they have it as combo.

 

I had encephalitis(brain swelling) once, and my doctor prescribed me Diclofenac Sodium. It's a powerful anti inflammatory. I don't know if it could be used long term, or if it would be ok with your liver, but ask your doc about it? If it's occasional it could be worth a shot. As far as your liver, you can fix it as long as you don't get hepatitis. TUDCA(an expensive bile salt you can buy online), don't use it long term, but a 1-2 month cycle along with Polyenylphosphatidyl Choline(not just regular choline, has to be this one exactly), along with Milk Thistle(Silymarin), will go a lot way towards healing your liver, provided you abstain from any stressors to it, like alcohol, for a while. Whenever you take things that are hard on your liver, make sure you also have been taking N-Acetyl-Cysteine, since it is also protective of the liver since it is a factor in Glutathione synthesis, and it is used to treat acetominophen(tylenol) overdose.

 

[StevesPetRat]

What brand and dosage of fisetin did you get results from?

Doctor's Best, 100 mg BID. Now I take about 250 mg liposomal daily; I bought the powder from some guy in a van I mean, on eBay.
 

Couldn't you have tried diphenhydramine (benadryl) as an anticholinergic? Puts you to sleep as well so you could've used some rest!

No, I mean, I already had virtually all these symptoms without taking a single anticholinergic drug. Benadryl sucked all the remaining moisture right out of my head, and the SSRI I was on made me nearly, OK, OK, full-on insane. Had (and still working on) cholinergic dysfunction from many repeated bouts of acute stress.

[HappyShoe]

 

Life Extension sells the combo of Milk Thistle with phosphatidylcholine, not sure if it's the same type you mentioned but just pointing out they have it as combo.

 

I had encephalitis(brain swelling) once, and my doctor prescribed me Diclofenac Sodium. It's a powerful anti inflammatory. I don't know if it could be used long term, or if it would be ok with your liver, but ask your doc about it? If it's occasional it could be worth a shot. As far as your liver, you can fix it as long as you don't get hepatitis. TUDCA(an expensive bile salt you can buy online), don't use it long term, but a 1-2 month cycle along with Polyenylphosphatidyl Choline(not just regular choline, has to be this one exactly), along with Milk Thistle(Silymarin), will go a lot way towards healing your liver, provided you abstain from any stressors to it, like alcohol, for a while. Whenever you take things that are hard on your liver, make sure you also have been taking N-Acetyl-Cysteine, since it is also protective of the liver since it is a factor in Glutathione synthesis, and it is used to treat acetominophen(tylenol) overdose.

 

 

That one is good, but Polyenylphosphatidyl choline is better.
http://alcalc.oxford...ontent/38/3/208

TUDCA is very similar to UDCA which is a hospital grade prescription bile salt used to treat fatty liver disease. So this is really big guns. Silymarin extracts are proven to help alcoholics regenerate their livers significantly when used with an abstinence program for several months. So as long as you don't have hepatitis, or iron deposits in your liver, you can pretty much bring it back to the dead with this stuff. This is what smart bodybuilders use when they do intense steroid cycles to protect their livers.

[eon]

Is it prescription only?

 

The article mentioned it restoring SAMe, but other compounds can do that as well (TMG, B12, Folate, Biotic etc.).

 

Regarding anti inflammatory, I just read about N-palmitoylethanolamide(PEA)--analgesic//anti-inflammatory/anti-convulsant

 

Anyone here familiar with it?

 

This is not the same phenylethylamine (PEA) that everyone knows.

 

This other PEA "has been shown to have anti-inflammatory,^[3] anti-nociceptive,^[10] neuroprotective,^[11] and anticonvulsant properties.^[12]"

 

Early studies:

 

"Indications as anti-inflammation and analgesia stem from before 1980, and the birth of the molecule was in 1957. In that year 5 researchers from MSD described N-(2-hydroxyethyl)-palmitamide, as they called the molecule at that time, as a natural anti-inflammatory agent. They stated: " We have succeeded in isolating a crystalline anti-inflammatory factor from soybean lecithin and identifying it as (S)-(2-hydroxyethyl)-palmitamide. The compound also was isolated from a phospholipid fraction of egg yolk and from hexane-extracted peanut meal."

 

"In 1975 Czech physicians described the result of a clinical trial in joint pain in The Lancet. ^[13] The analgesic action of 3 grams of aspirin during the day was compared to PEA 1.8 gram/day."

 

http://en.wikipedia....oylethanolamide

 

 

 

 

 

Life Extension sells the combo of Milk Thistle with phosphatidylcholine, not sure if it's the same type you mentioned but just pointing out they have it as combo.

 

I had encephalitis(brain swelling) once, and my doctor prescribed me Diclofenac Sodium. It's a powerful anti inflammatory. I don't know if it could be used long term, or if it would be ok with your liver, but ask your doc about it? If it's occasional it could be worth a shot. As far as your liver, you can fix it as long as you don't get hepatitis. TUDCA(an expensive bile salt you can buy online), don't use it long term, but a 1-2 month cycle along with Polyenylphosphatidyl Choline(not just regular choline, has to be this one exactly), along with Milk Thistle(Silymarin), will go a lot way towards healing your liver, provided you abstain from any stressors to it, like alcohol, for a while. Whenever you take things that are hard on your liver, make sure you also have been taking N-Acetyl-Cysteine, since it is also protective of the liver since it is a factor in Glutathione synthesis, and it is used to treat acetominophen(tylenol) overdose.

 

 

That one is good, but Polyenylphosphatidyl choline is better.
http://alcalc.oxford...ontent/38/3/208

TUDCA is very similar to UDCA which is a hospital grade prescription bile salt used to treat fatty liver disease. So this is really big guns. Silymarin extracts are proven to help alcoholics regenerate their livers significantly when used with an abstinence program for several months. So as long as you don't have hepatitis, or iron deposits in your liver, you can pretty much bring it back to the dead with this stuff. This is what smart bodybuilders use when they do intense steroid cycles to protect their livers.

 

 

[SearchingForAnswers]

Interesting. A doctor in Afghanistan (back in 2012) told me I had a fatty liver after an ultrasound. Then about 8 months later in the states, I was told I did not.

 

But I was also told there was not treatment for it; but now I hear UDCA is?