14 replies to this topic

[penisbreath]

Curious if anyone here has used guanfacine? I react badly to clonidine, but am not really sure if that has any bearing on Guanfacine, since isn't clonidine a partial or mixed agonist? I remember reading an explanation about how it simultaneously raises and lowers NE. 

 

I'm looking to treat general overstimulation, restlessness, irritability .. basically, symptoms of sympathetic overactivation.

 

I know depression is a common side-effect, but could probably live with the trade-off. I've also read mixed effects on sleep, but more strangely cases where it increased irritability/rage (though I'm not sure how it would do that? And it seemed to be mostly accounts from parents with autistic children).

 

I found this source in the archives, if anyone's interested: http://www.internati.../details/613117

 

 

[blood]

I'd be curious to hear from anyone who has used guanfacine (or clonidine, or moxonidine) for hypertension... Do they get prescribed much for that?

What are these drugs like to take?

Subjectively, how do they compare to betablockers?

[bzyb]

I dont know what guafacine is but its probably better than clonidine.  I'm prescribed clonidine now for anxiety/blood pressure and if I take .1 mg I get so sleepy.  I guess it lowers blood pressure though since my blood pressure is lower now.  Worse yet, it effects my mood I believe slightly dystopic, or it may be something else I'm taking. Anyway I'm going to ask my doc to stop it, and I'll ask if guafacine is better.  I mean if I want a drowsy anxiolytic hydroxyzine is better since it doesnt seem to effect my mood just makes me sleepy.  I've tried propranolol and it mitigated all physical effects but seemed to make my mind feel slower and slightly depressed as well.  I haven't tried atenolol or methanolol (sic) yet.

 

Lucky maybe try small dose lithium orotate or mass doses of l-glutamine/theanine and maybe those will help, but yeah its hard to find the one thing to cure everything.

[Alpha_Master]

I was prescribed guanfacine for adhd then intuniv. At first I noticed less emotional impulses and high amounts of motivation to analyze everything. The problem was I started getting less energy and wanting to sleep all the time. It losts its magic after 2 to 3 weeks and was making me too tired. Look into telmisartan. That also worked for me for 1 day a week if I cycled one week off.

[penisbreath]

I'd be curious to hear from anyone who has used guanfacine (or clonidine, or moxonidine) for hypertension... Do they get prescribed much for that?

What are these drugs like to take?

Subjectively, how do they compare to betablockers?

Propanolol depresses me and interferes with my sleep, whereas a cardioselective betablocker like atenolol had less subjective side-effects (and less impact on anxiety). clonidine felt like more of a depressant than either.

 

I dont know what guafacine is but its probably better than clonidine.  I'm prescribed clonidine now for anxiety/blood pressure and if I take .1 mg I get so sleepy.  I guess it lowers blood pressure though since my blood pressure is lower now.  Worse yet, it effects my mood I believe slightly dystopic, or it may be something else I'm taking. Anyway I'm going to ask my doc to stop it, and I'll ask if guafacine is better.  I mean if I want a drowsy anxiolytic hydroxyzine is better since it doesnt seem to effect my mood just makes me sleepy.  I've tried propranolol and it mitigated all physical effects but seemed to make my mind feel slower and slightly depressed as well.  I haven't tried atenolol or methanolol (sic) yet.

 

Lucky maybe try small dose lithium orotate or mass doses of l-glutamine/theanine and maybe those will help, but yeah its hard to find the one thing to cure everything.

 

Lithium Orotate didn't work, and theanine stimulates me.

 

I was prescribed guanfacine for adhd then intuniv. At first I noticed less emotional impulses and high amounts of motivation to analyze everything. The problem was I started getting less energy and wanting to sleep all the time. It losts its magic after 2 to 3 weeks and was making me too tired. Look into telmisartan. That also worked for me for 1 day a week if I cycled one week off.

 

Did the guanfacine have any effect on your anxiety? Also, was sleep better or worse? And do you recall what dose you were on?

[blood]

I dont know what guafacine is but its probably better than clonidine.  I'm prescribed clonidine now for anxiety/blood pressure and if I take .1 mg I get so sleepy.  I guess it lowers blood pressure though since my blood pressure is lower now.

 

How many times/day do you take the clonidone?

 

Apparently instant-release guanfacine can be taken once/day for hypertension. That opens the possibility of taking it in the evening (when sedative side effects don't matter so much).

[Alpha_Master]

I also took clonidine for a period of time. Clonidine and guanfacine are very similar whereas clonidine was longer lasting and more of a mood stabilizer it also reduced my energy. I was taking .25mg to 2mg dosages of the guanfacine instant release experimenting and varying throughout a 3-4 month period. Guanfacine quenched anxiety immediately for about 1-2 hours before the effects wore off. Afterwards I would become irritable and sensitive and tired. The best thing for anxiety in my opinion so far has been l-methylfolate and propranolol as an emergency solution. None of the drugs I've ever taken has become a long term solution no matter how much I tried to take small dosages / cycle / etc. 

Edited by Alpha_Master, 13 April 2014 - 12:32 AM.

[Major Legend]

Nothing special in my experience. You can get it pretty easily online, just start low to make sure you don't expose yourself to any complication blood pressure wise. Guanfacine is a lot smoother than Clonidine, so its worth a shot - I just wouldn't expect much out of Guanfacine.

 

To be fair strong anxiety is one of the hardest things to treat in my experience both long term and short term. You are better off using an app like buddhify 2 and practice meditating and dealing with it somewhat. I do have pretty bad social anxiety, I think due to being on the autism spectrum + prior brain damage, but prefer a balanced method of drugs, nootropics and meditation (psychological based methods), unfortunately its not perfect and sometimes the anxiety does get the better of me, but it does allow me to live a far normal life than I could otherwise.

 

All drugs that works effectively on anxiety seem to wreck havok on cognitive functions in the long term - such as benzos, opiates, SSRIs , GHB, lots of alchohol ( a common self medication method), in the end all effective drugs on anxiety (the ones I know anyways are common depressants) change your behaviour slowly over long periods of time, they make you lose your memory, creativity and so on. Horrible anxiety require powerful drugs to alleviate completely. I prefer benzos because it allows me to selectively lower my anxiety when necessary, and allows me to balance drug use with other psychological methods, but it has addictive qualities that can be dangerous.

 

And also trust me, irritability and anxiety is torture, but its a blessing compared to depression. You don't want depression, its way worse. Can you imagine being devoid of meaning, purpose and emotions? If I had to choose I would pick anxiety over depression everytime.

 

Oh and if you have trouble sleeping I recommend trying 10 to 20mg of Melatonin + 1000mg of Valerian Root 2-3 times every week.

 

General over stimulation can be caused by a variety of different things, I guess you should try to figure out the underlying cause if you haven't figured it out already.

[bzyb]

How many times/day do you take the clonidone?

 

Apparently instant-release guanfacine can be taken once/day for hypertension. That opens the possibility of taking it in the evening (when sedative side effects don't matter so much).

 

 

Blood I have similar reactions to these supplements as Lucky.  Even I dont think my suggestions Theanine, Lithium Orotate do much, but the latter calms me down somewhat. I don't know if lucky also has gastro issues like I do but it exacerbates the problems, so I am also working on that (probiotics, antibiotics, l-glutamine, etc) 

 

I've tried different variations of the clonidine, 1/2 pill, 2 pills at morning/night and same thing happens very sleepy/downward mood.  My blood pressure is not too bad, I'm working with a psych for my anxiety.  So I need something to take in the morning/day and that won't effect my ability to work.  Guanfacine looks like it wont work for me either. 

 

All drugs that works effectively on anxiety seem to wreck havok on cognitive functions in the long term - such as benzos, opiates, SSRIs , GHB, lots of alchohol ( a common self medication method), in the end all effective drugs on anxiety (the ones I know anyways are common depressants) change your behaviour slowly over long periods of time, they make you lose your memory, creativity and so on. Horrible anxiety require powerful drugs to alleviate completely. I prefer benzos because it allows me to selectively lower my anxiety when necessary, and allows me to balance drug use with other psychological methods, but it has addictive qualities that can be dangerous.

 

Good post major.  I have never really tried ssris, but have tried all benzos (except ativan) and they have been bad news in the long run.  Psych is prescribing me ativan and I'll use it as needed or for emergency.  Alcohol, yeah, this sounds bad but I feel really normal and happy on alcohol, so that's not a good sign.  Can't drink at work, in America at least!  What do you think about low-dose 5 mg escitolapram (lexapro) that ScienceGuy says is okay for anxiety in his big thread?  I ask because every doc I see mentions SSRIs like trained parrots though I've never taken it (and they are so happy to prescribe it), and dont want the GI, sexual, sedative or other bad side effects!  I'm trying different things next two weeks, and if by then symptoms continue I think I will try the SSRI route.

[Major Legend]

 

 

I have never really tried ssris, but have tried all benzos (except ativan) and they have been bad news in the long run.  Psych is prescribing me ativan and I'll use it as needed or for emergency.  Alcohol, yeah, this sounds bad but I feel really normal and happy on alcohol, so that's not a good sign.  Can't drink at work, in America at least!  What do you think about low-dose 5 mg escitolapram (lexapro) that ScienceGuy says is okay for anxiety in his big thread?  I ask because every doc I see mentions SSRIs like trained parrots though I've never taken it (and they are so happy to prescribe it), and dont want the GI, sexual, sedative or other bad side effects!  I'm trying different things next two weeks, and if by then symptoms continue I think I will try the SSRI route.

 

bzyb - the key to SRRIs is the anti anxiety effects don't work until like 4 to 6 weeks into taking them (during where the side effects such as anxiety will actually become worst), this is because the anxiolytic effects mainly come from down regulation tolerance response to the drug itself - I don't think this is the accepted theory of why it helps depression anymore, however if you go with an SSRI you need to give it time. My issues with it is:

 

1) You have to take it chronically for it to work, which isn't really what I like - being drugged all the time unable to take breaks.

2) People report that they poop out (stop working) after a while, and there are weird permanent withdrawal effects like the famous brain zaps - I do not want to come out of it 4 years later a broken man

3) Its certainly personality altering for me as an autistic spectrum guy, it made me more flat, unable to feel emotions, or have creative ideas, however my brain chemistry is not neuro typical and thus this is probably a reaction unique to me.

 

Regarding dosage, personally this is up to debate, using a low dose also risks not reaping the actual benefits of SSRI's I've read reports where it only worked with people when they returned a second time with a much higher dosage. All the SSRI's are also really different too so you should read up about them in crazymeds or some website. Lexapro is relatively new and side effect free.

 

Doctors are limited because they have to follow protocol and what they are taught, if they told you try something outside of standard practice and you end up becoming ill, you could end up suing them.

 

It doesn't help that an entire generation of excess have rendered alot of effective medicine prohibited or illegal - I really have no sympathy for people who abuse themselves on chemicals and get a whole class of medication prohibited, banned or just become expensive prescription only products.

Edited by Major Legend, 15 April 2014 - 05:57 PM.

[bzyb]

bzyb - the key to SRRIs is the anti anxiety effects don't work until like 4 to 6 weeks into taking them (during where the side effects such as anxiety will actually become worst), this is because the anxiolytic effects mainly come from down regulation tolerance response to the drug itself - I don't think this is the accepted theory of why it helps depression anymore, however if you go with an SSRI you need to give it time. My issues with it is:

 

1) You have to take it chronically for it to work, which isn't really what I like - being drugged all the time unable to take breaks.

2) People report that they poop out (stop working) after a while, and there are weird permanent withdrawal effects like the famous brain zaps - I do not want to come out of it 4 years later a broken man

3) Its certainly personality altering for me as an autistic spectrum guy, it made me more flat, unable to feel emotions, or have creative ideas, however my brain chemistry is not neuro typical and thus this is probably a reaction unique to me.

 

 

Thanks for the descriptive account about ssris.  I've been naturally skeptical about them because the doctors seem to want to hand them out like candy and because a classmate of mine is on a bunch of things and has either trouble staying awake or being quiet in class. I have the same opinions as you as I don't like taking things with side effects chronically.  I was mainly looking for something to flatline me emotionally a bit so I could have no problems doing a regular 9-5 and focus just on the work and not all the other stuff.  But I would need to stay awake, be sharp, and creative if possible.  

 

Today I tried tianeptine for the second time, and the effects have been good (focused, okay mood) though a bit drowsy.  Even as I write this a girl is looking at me and talking loudly on her phone in the library and I don't really care which is a new positive!  Tianeptine is something that can be more or less taken as needed, and should be cycled I guess.  I'm just wondering if its just like a first-time effect, since most noots that I try are awesome at the beginning and unfortunately some fizzle out, so we shall see.  If it does wear off, then I may try the low-dose lexapro because I've tried most other things on the anxiolytics list already.  Like get a 1-2 month dose, weight the pros/cons and try not to stay on them too long.  But if it has a lot of the symptoms you listed, you are right I will always put the long term > short term.

Edited by bzyb, 15 April 2014 - 11:45 PM.

[penisbreath]

Well, I can confirm that my Guanfacine arrived from here today: http://www.internati.../details/613117 -- surprisingly quickly as well (6 business days to Australia).

 

Really hoping it nails this horrible akathisia/restlessness I've had for months now. Also hoping to improve focus/working memory, and tame irritability and agitation. 

 

Can anyone recommend a starting dosing schedule? I was thinking 0.5mg twice a day. Not looking forward to increased fatigue, which is already a big problem, and hoping it doesn't zombify me. 

[blood]

Will be interested to hear how you go with it.

[penisbreath]

Day 2. Dosing 0.5mg once I wake up after 4 hours .. fall back asleep for a few hours, but other than that no noticeable effects on anxiety or restlessness. More fatigued. Mood probably the same (i.e. irritable, labile).

 

A review on pubmed suggested taking 0.5mg at night for 4 days, then 0.5mg b.i.d., but I'm looking for a dose that has an acute effect on restlessness, so may push up to 1mg in the morning in two days. 

 

 

[John250]

Is Guanfacine stimulating in any way? It boosts norepinephrine doesn’t it?