42 replies to this topic

[platypus]

I keep hearing fantastic things about the healing properties of this peptide - I wonder if it has any longevity-benefits?

[onz]

Very interesting peptide, surprising to find little interest on longecity regarding this. Also possible skin benefits.

[Junk Master]

From what I hear...overrated...

[jolly]

Why do you feel it's overrated? 

[Juicy]

BPC-157

[zorba990]

BPC-157

Effective orrally?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20225319

Pentadecapeptide BPC 157 (PL 14736) improves ligament healing in the rat.
Cerovecki T1, Bojanic I, Brcic L, Radic B, Vukoja I, Seiwerth S, Sikiric P.
Author information
Abstract
We improved medial collateral ligament (MCL) healing throughout 90 days after surgical transection. We introduced intraperitoneal, per-oral (in drinking water) and topical (thin cream layer) peptide therapy always given alone, without a carrier. Previously, as an effective peptide therapy, stable gastric pentadecapeptide BPC 157 (GEPPPGKPADDAGLV, an anti-ulcer peptide effective in inflammatory bowel disease therapy (PL 14736)) particularly improved healing of transected tendon and muscle and wound healing effect including the expression of the early growth response 1 (egr-1) gene. After MCL transection BPC 157 was effective in rats when given once daily intraperitoneally (10 microg or 10 ng/kg) or locally as a thin layer (1.0 microg dissolved in distilled water/g commercial neutral cream) at the site of injury, first application 30 min after surgery and the final application 24 h before sacrifice. Likewise, BPC 157 was effective given per-orally (0.16 microg/ml in the drinking water (12 ml/day/rat)) until sacrifice. Commonly, BPC 157 microg-ng-rats exhibited consistent functional, biomechanical, macroscopic and histological healing improvements. Thus, we suggest BPC 157 improved healing of acute ligament injuries in further ligament therapy.

[zorba990]

Also seems pretty amazing that it actually down regulates vegf in cancer

BPC 157 inhibits cell growth and VEGF signalling via the MAPK kinase pathway in the human melanoma cell line

http://mobile.journa...0&article=00050

[jolly]

I started a course of tb-500 and bpc-157 4 days ago.  I injured my knee dancing (patellar dislocation), and I'm absolutely shocked by how fast this has accelerated healing on this acute injury.  I've got two other long term injuries and if it manages to solve those, I'm going to be very impressed.    I believe bpc-157 is effective orally, but its much more cost effective with a subq or intramuscular injection near the injury site.  

[Juicy]

Jolly,

 

What source did you get it from? I am heavily into the peptide field and most of the research chemical providers are crap and just buy it from China and charge you an arm and a leg. if you do get peptides just go to AliBaba or so... However my buddy has received pharma grade peptides and he wasn't thrilled...

 

The whole point here is if you want to heal a injury you need to ELEVATE IGF-1 LEVELS

 

1. Pharmaceutical Growth Hormone (At a dose you can afford) 3-4 times a day.

2. BPC-157 (1mg-2mg) Micro-injected into the site of injury.

3. Pentosan Polysulfate can be nice..
4. IGF-1 LR3

[jolly]

I'm using ceretropic, but will take other supplier suggestions as well.  

[jolly]

for the BPC-157, over what period of time are you using that?  I'm mostly seeing people doing 200 mcg a day, 1-2mg is much higher than other dosing suggestions I'm seeing.  

[Junk Master]

Good thread, let's keep this one going.

 

I'm doing another "cycle" of MK-77 at the moment to speed healing of a third degree hip flexor tear (sucks getting old) and I do feel it is helping; but I'm interested in the combo of TB500 and BPC-157.  Wonder if it is synergistic?

 

Also, I've heard so many horror stories about ordering off AliBaba, how does one go about vetting reputable vendors?

 

Any problems with customs?

[Rocket]

I have used TB4 and thought it helped with soft tissue issues in my knee.... IMHO better than nothing, but not up to the hype.  From what I have read the doses needed to actually be effective in humans make it very cost prohibitive. 

Edited by Rocket, 07 September 2015 - 06:32 PM.

[Junk Master]

"... From what I have read the doses needed to actually be effective in humans make it very cost prohibitive. "

 

This is my take as well.

[sthira]

I started a course of tb-500 and bpc-157 4 days ago. I injured my knee dancing (patellar dislocation), and I'm absolutely shocked by how fast this has accelerated healing on this acute injury. I've got two other long term injuries and if it manages to solve those, I'm going to be very impressed. I believe bpc-157 is effective orally, but its much more cost effective with a subq or intramuscular injection near the injury site.

Do you have any potential cancer concerns with regard to using tb-500 or bpc-157 to heal your injuries?

[Juicy]

I only go with one person with peptides being GHRP/GHRH and BPC/TB... Clinical grade, pure 99% and theyg et it from a swiss-research lab... and it's proven by HPLC testings and not chinese... Screw the rest. I had messed around withe everything and did their testings.

[hazeleyes99]

I only go with one person with peptides being GHRP/GHRH and BPC/TB... Clinical grade, pure 99% and theyg et it from a swiss-research lab... and it's proven by HPLC testings and not chinese... Screw the rest. I had messed around withe everything and did their testings.

 

itd be great if you could mention the source so we could all take advantage of this info 

 

i for one am sick of bunk, underdosed, impure products

 

everyone claims 98% purity but the truth is far from it 

[Juicy]

Claims are different than proof via HPLC MS
And yes I can help the community here.

[MetaphasicSystems]

Jolly,

What source did you get it from? I am heavily into the peptide field and most of the research chemical providers are crap and just buy it from China and charge you an arm and a leg. if you do get peptides just go to AliBaba or so... However my buddy has received pharma grade peptides and he wasn't thrilled...

The whole point here is if you want to heal a injury you need to ELEVATE IGF-1 LEVELS

1. Pharmaceutical Growth Hormone (At a dose you can afford) 3-4 times a day.
2. BPC-157 (1mg-2mg) Micro-injected into the site of injury.
3. Pentosan Polysulfate can be nice..
4. IGF-1 LR3

Mods, look at this guys posts across the board.
Basically, pimping a peptide company. Can we ban this guy?

[Juicy]

Pimping? How am I pimping. lol You are nuts with your 30 post.. You must be behind a co. trying to maintain your business.

[Junk Master]

In no way is Juicy pimping.

 

I consider him a valued member and an authority on peptides!

[Juicy]

I had been here for awhile and I am into health-concerns. I have ran into the peptide conversation here and I know about quality as I am a bodybuiler so I just want to steer people in the right direction.. Many res. chemical companies CLAIM they are premium grade pharma quality when they just order from AliBaba

[blind12]

I'm looking to see what Genscript asks for synthesis of 500mg or 1g of TB-500.
TB-500 identity however is not quite clear to me. I thought it was a fraction of thymosin beta 4, but sequence data that I'm able to find for TB4 matches the one advertised by many TB-500 sellers and infomercial writers as that of TB-500.

Sequence/modification data is also conflicting, variants I've found are the following:

SDKPDMAEIEKFDKSKLKKTETQEKNPLPSKETIEQEKQAGES - full TB4, 43 aminoacids: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thymosin_beta-4
MSDKPDMAEIEKFDKSKLKKTETQEKNPLPSKETIEQEKQAGES - full TB4, 44 aminoacids: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/protein/NP_066932 or is this the "Y-chromosomal" TB4? but that is ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/protein/NP_004193
Ac-SDKPDMAEIEKFDKSKLKKTETQEKNPLPSKETIEQEKQAGES-OH - full TB4, 43 aminoacids: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC319967

(Some TB4 papers suggest other modifications, not -OH, at C-terminus (the end on the right)).

Many TB-500 sellers advertise the same sequence, sometimes without the leading Ac- and/or trailing -OH?!
Are they simply muddying up the waters to prevent anyone ordering their own synthesis?
And Genscript says they can't even add -OH to the C-terminus of this sequence, i.e. they can't reproduce natural TB4, which sounds odd?!

And then I found this sequence:
Ac-LKKTETQ (Ac-Leu-Lys-Lys-Thr-Glu-Thr-Gln)
pmid.us/23084823, pmid.us/23084823, pmid.us/22962027 (free pdf: researchgate.net/publication/230826742, includes mass-spectra btw but very low-quality images, biblio.ugent.be/publication/3128392/file/3128706 - better-quality MS spectra images)

Based on the above, I would assume that TB-500 is Ac-LKKTETQ and TB-500 sellers just muddy the waters to prevent private synthesis, by advertising the full TB4 sequence.

Can anyone confirm the above sequence? With unmodified C-terminus?

Also, what's the best TFA replacement? Many seem to use acetate. Genscript also offer e.g. phosphate.

And should I request additional quality checks?

Edited by blind12, 28 July 2017 - 02:12 PM.

[aribadabar]

I'm looking to see what Genscript asks for synthesis of 500mg or 1g of TB-500.
TB-500 identity however is not quite clear to me. I thought it was a fraction of thymosin beta 4, but sequence data that I'm able to find for TB4 matches the one advertised by many TB-500 sellers and infomercial writers as that of TB-500.

Sequence/modification data is also conflicting, variants I've found are the following:

SDKPDMAEIEKFDKSKLKKTETQEKNPLPSKETIEQEKQAGES - full TB4, 43 aminoacids: http://en.wikipedia....Thymosin_beta-4
MSDKPDMAEIEKFDKSKLKKTETQEKNPLPSKETIEQEKQAGES - full TB4, 44 aminoacids: http://ncbi.nlm.nih....otein/NP_066932 or is this the "Y-chromosomal" TB4? but that is http://ncbi.nlm.nih....otein/NP_004193
Ac-SDKPDMAEIEKFDKSKLKKTETQEKNPLPSKETIEQEKQAGES-OH - full TB4, 43 aminoacids: http://ncbi.nlm.nih....icles/PMC319967

(Some TB4 papers suggest other modifications, not -OH, at C-terminus (the end on the right)).

Many TB-500 sellers advertise the same sequence, sometimes without the leading Ac- and/or trailing -OH?!
Are they simply muddying up the waters to prevent anyone ordering their own synthesis?
And Genscript says they can't even add -OH to the C-terminus of this sequence, i.e. they can't reproduce natural TB4, which sounds odd?!

And then I found this sequence:
Ac-LKKTETQ  (Ac-Leu-Lys-Lys-Thr-Glu-Thr-Gln)
http://pmid.us/23084823, http://pmid.us/23084823, http://pmid.us/22962027 (free pdf: http://researchgate....tion/230826742, includes mass-spectra btw but very low-quality images, http://biblio.ugent....92/file/3128706 - better-quality MS spectra images)

Based on the above, I would assume that TB-500 is Ac-LKKTETQ and TB-500 sellers just muddy the waters to prevent private synthesis, by advertising the full TB4 sequence.

Can anyone confirm the above sequence? With unmodified C-terminus?

Also, what's the best TFA replacement? Many seem to use acetate. Genscript also offer e.g. phosphate.

 

I have already done this and got quoted $3360 for 1000mg with the 30% discount factored in as TB-500 is 43-amino acid peptide and the synthesis charge goes up by the number of amino acids involved.

I have also run into these differing notations and offered this one in my quote request: SDKPDMAEIEKFDKSKLKKTETQEKNPLPSKETIEQEKQAGES based on the CAS No:77591-33-4 specification with Acetylation of the N-terminus and no modification of the C-terminus.

 

I have not seen this fragment being mentioned before as actual TB-500 and it sounds like it is akin to the HGH Fragment 176-191 compared to the full HGH i.e. it is similar to the actual compound but not having all its properties.

 

The above quote is without any TFA removal so add a few hundred dollars on top of the quote above for that.

 

FWIW

Edited by aribadabar, 28 July 2017 - 02:01 PM.

[blind12]

Well it certainly seems TB-500 is just a 7-aminoacid peptide, Ac-LKKTETQ, and you also got mislead by the sellers' trick outlined above.
But I'm still seeking confirmation.

The doping hunters' papers I referenced above state that while LKKTETQ is a natural metabolite of full TB4, N-acetylated Ac-LKKTETQ is not and that is what they use to detect TB-500 users in sports.

Edited by blind12, 28 July 2017 - 02:21 PM.

[aribadabar]

Well it certainly seems TB-500 is just a 7-aminoacid peptide, Ac-LKKTETQ, and you also got mislead by the sellers' trick outlined above.
But I'm still seeking confirmation.

 

I think you are misreading this - the links you provided for this heptapetide state that it is derived FROM TB-500 i.e. they acknowledge it is a FRAGMENT of the whole thing.

 

That being said, I see another sequence for TB-500 and from a reputable lab like Peprotech, a 45-amino acid structure : RMSDKPDMAE IEKFDKSKLK KTETQEKNPL PSKETIEQEK QAGES

but the one I mentioned seems prevalent.

 

I had a chat with a Novus lab tech and his offering is also with 43 amino acids. He referred me to this resource:

http://www.uniprot.o...62328#sequences .. which shows a 44-AA sequence for the native human version of the peptide so the synthesis cost would be around 4K with TFA removal 

[blind12]

I think you are misreading this - the links you provided for this heptapetide state that it is derived FROM TB-500 i.e. they acknowledge it is a FRAGMENT of the whole thing.

That being said, I see another sequence for TB-500 and from a reputable lab like Peprotech, a 45-amino acid structure : RMSDKPDMAE IEKFDKSKLK KTETQEKNPL PSKETIEQEK QAGES
but the one I mentioned seems prevalent.

I had a chat with a Novus lab tech and his offering is also with 43 amino acids. He referred me to this resource:
http://www.uniprot.o...62328#sequences .. which shows a 44-AA sequence for the native human version of the peptide so the synthesis cost would be around 4K with TFA removal

No they state it is a fragment of TB4. pmid.us/22962027 analyses a confiscated shipment of "TB-500" and finds that it is a very pure Ac-LKKTETQ. They confirm by synthesizing their own Ac-LKKTETQ and comparing spectra. All WADA documents suggest TB-500 is Ac-LKKTETQ. Unfortunately they are the only reference.

One additional aminoacid from Peprotech at the N-end, thus totaling 45, provides even more confusion for the complete TB4.

But TB-500 seems to be unnaturally N-acetylated natural metabolite of TB4, LKKTETQ.

Edited by blind12, 28 July 2017 - 03:46 PM.

[aribadabar]

I used TB-500 and TB4 interchangeably in my previous posts.

 

I think this new fragment is more accurately described as: Ac-Tβ4(17-23) , not TB-500.

[blind12]

I used TB-500 and TB4 interchangeably in my previous posts.

 

I think this new fragment is more accurately described as: Ac-Tβ4(17-23) , not TB-500.

 

That is the more accurate description, but it seems the commercial name is TB-500.
 

But ordering a synthesis based on seemings alone seems risky.

[aconita]

If we aren't even able to find out what TB500 actually is I would be curious to see what "research compounds" sellers are trowing at the market.

 

https://researchpept...f0b01d9c5202a3a

 

Anyway at about 40$/10mg it isn't too bad.