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Productivity and anti-stress stack. Advice please.

l-tyrosine modafinil bacopa ginkgo lions mane

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#1 Kaizn

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 03:04 PM


Hello all,
 
Here is the stack I'm currently taking:
 
AM:
  • 500mg L-Tyrosine
  • 200mg Phosphatidyl Serine
  • 200mg Modafinil (Modivigil)
  • 1g Krill Oil
  • 1x Opti-Men mutivitamin
 
PM:
  • 2g Lion's Mane
  • 500mg Bacopa - NutriGold Brand.
  • 120mg Ginkgo Biloba
 
Notes/Findings:
  • The stack keeps me pretty relaxed while staying productive.  
  • If I mix caffiene with the modafinil I tend to get quite irritable but it makes me productive as hell.
  • The bacopa gave me brutal stomach aches at first. If you're getting stomach aches from Bacopa try taking it before bed. This eventually went away but the diarrhea persists...  even so, I find it worth taking because the effects on speech and social anxiety are noticable (my subjective opinion, of course)
  • The primary reason for the modafinil is the effect on motaivation. I find it much easier to get going, and get things done while on it. 
  • I've taken Inositol in the past, and still do occsionally for OCD type symptoms.  When I took it regulary I found that I had much higher self-control -- I didn't feel the urge to grab a beer after a long day, and it also made it easier to go to sleep since I didn't feel like I needed to conquer the world in 1 day.  The downside and the reason I stopped taking is that I felt much less productive and rather unmotivated.  
 
Questions/Concerns:
  • Is this stack safe?  My concern is due to the fact that I'm mixing these together in this way. It is also worth noting that I'm on a ketogenic diet of < 30g carbs per day.
  • Is the stack efficient? Am I taking something that counters another, or could I replace one with something that is more effective?
  • I am considering adding Ashwagandha + Rhodiola the counter the irritability brought on by mixing modafinil with Caffiene.  Any thoughts on this?
  • Should I increase my Krill Oil intake?
 
 
Thanks everyone!
 
 
 


#2 GoingPrimal

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:52 AM

I am not the most schooled on modafinil MoA, but this stack seems safe. The fact that you are in a ketogenic state doesn't raise any immediate red flags to my knowledge.

 

Is the L-Tyrosine necessary if you're taking the grandaddy of motivational sups, Modafinil?

 

I think upping the krill oil wouldn't hurt, but may not be necessary depending on your diet, and how anti-inflammatory/omega-3 rich it is.

 

Ashwagandha will likely help with the irritability, at least somewhat - I believe it is GABA-ergic as well as cortisol-reducing. Rhodiola isn't considered to be one of the "relaxing" adaptogens like ashwagandha is, in fact it's usually considered more stimulating. I'd suggest starting with Ashwagandha, but then again, Rhodiola may provide a nice synergy. I use both of these herbs, but not modafinil.


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#3 ModaMinds

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 04:08 AM

The great things about nootropic stacks is that often they are natural substances. Of course, some natural substances can be harmful, but generally you can be pretty lax in analyzing substance mixing as the odds of adverse effects are much lower than they would be if you were mixing pharmaceuticals (ignoring the modafinil) that you didn't know about.

 

As for the rhodiola, this can help reduce the caffeine/modafinil irritability (may want to look into this more though as some people have reported mixing modafinil with other stimulants actually makes them relaxed while still being focused), however sometimes rhodiola is known to cause severe stomach pain. I imagine having stomach issues all day could negate the benefit of being less irritable, though if this does happen to you, it may go away after a week or two.

 

Are you positive though that it's the actual mixing of modafinil and caffeine that brings on your irritability, though? I find that, in general, when you use something like modafinil (or caffeine, for that matter) which really gets you focused, driven, and more apt to increase your productivity, this also brings on some impatience. I assume you mean you are irritable in your interactions with others, and remember that interactions with others require you to slow down and go at their pace, yet being impatient and driven from the modafinil can make these situations irritable. This may be something you need to deal with mentally that can't easily be fixed by adding more to your stack.

 

Also, I would recommend something other than the NutriGold for bacopa. Check out some reviews on various brands online and you'll find some more ideal alternatives. Also feel free to visit ModaMind for any replenishment to your modafinil. We've been shipping pharma products reliably for 14 years.


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#4 Ritchie

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 11:17 PM

You could also try adding in a serotonin precursor to help balance out the dopaminergic effects of modafinil and L-tyrosine. Try to take it in the evening because serotonin converts to melatonin which makes people sleepy. Also try incorporating an antioxidant, green tea is good, people also try cysteine. Also you could replace L-tyrosine with Mucuna Pruriens which is much more effective as a dopamine precursor, just make sure to research it first because their is some skepticism surrounding its safety.


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#5 Kaizn

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 11:30 PM

Thanks for the input everyone. I will post back here 1-2 weeks after Ashwagandha + Rhodiola has been added to my stack in case anyone is curious about the results.

 

Are you positive though that it's the actual mixing of modafinil and caffeine that brings on your irritability, though? I find that, in general, when you use something like modafinil (or caffeine, for that matter) which really gets you focused, driven, and more apt to increase your productivity, this also brings on some impatience. I assume you mean you are irritable in your interactions with others, and remember that interactions with others require you to slow down and go at their pace, yet being impatient and driven from the modafinil can make these situations irritable. This may be something you need to deal with mentally that can't easily be fixed by adding more to your stack.

 

You hit the nail on the head - it's the impatience, and it's only noticeable when I'm talking people who small talk rather than getting down to brass tacks.

 

You could also try adding in a serotonin precursor to help balance out the dopaminergic effects of modafinil and L-tyrosine. Try to take it in the evening because serotonin converts to melatonin which makes people sleepy. Also try incorporating an antioxidant, green tea is good, people also try cysteine. Also you could replace L-tyrosine with Mucuna Pruriens which is much more effective as a dopamine precursor, just make sure to research it first because their is some skepticism surrounding its safety.

 

Would 5-HTP be a suitable serotonin precursor in this case? Thanks.  



#6 Ritchie

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 11:35 PM

Thanks for the input everyone. I will post back here 1-2 weeks after Ashwagandha + Rhodiola has been added to my stack in case anyone is curious about the results.

 

Are you positive though that it's the actual mixing of modafinil and caffeine that brings on your irritability, though? I find that, in general, when you use something like modafinil (or caffeine, for that matter) which really gets you focused, driven, and more apt to increase your productivity, this also brings on some impatience. I assume you mean you are irritable in your interactions with others, and remember that interactions with others require you to slow down and go at their pace, yet being impatient and driven from the modafinil can make these situations irritable. This may be something you need to deal with mentally that can't easily be fixed by adding more to your stack.

 

You hit the nail on the head - it's the impatience, and it's only noticeable when I'm talking people who small talk rather than getting down to brass tacks.

 

You could also try adding in a serotonin precursor to help balance out the dopaminergic effects of modafinil and L-tyrosine. Try to take it in the evening because serotonin converts to melatonin which makes people sleepy. Also try incorporating an antioxidant, green tea is good, people also try cysteine. Also you could replace L-tyrosine with Mucuna Pruriens which is much more effective as a dopamine precursor, just make sure to research it first because their is some skepticism surrounding its safety.

 

Would 5-HTP be a suitable serotonin precursor in this case? Thanks.  

 

5htp is fine. L-tryptophan is supposed to be healthier but it is not availible anywhere. You could try incorporating more bananas in to your diet as they are high in tryptophan.

 


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#7 djm65

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 11:51 PM

L-tryptophan can be bought at Iherb, not sure where you are located though.

#8 AmpleBeingdotcom

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 08:34 PM

Kaizn,

 

You should add an LTP stack to your regimen. If has a noticeable effect on productivity and improved mood. 

 

I have been perfecting our stack for over and year and it has made me FAR more productive than i used to be and i am really able to focus on the tasks i have at hand.

 

You would have to ask the people around me about the mood, but i feel much happier and peppier :)


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#9 Kaizn

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 09:35 PM

Kaizn,

 

You should add an LTP stack to your regimen. If has a noticeable effect on productivity and improved mood. 

 

I have been perfecting our stack for over and year and it has made me FAR more productive than i used to be and i am really able to focus on the tasks i have at hand.

 

You would have to ask the people around me about the mood, but i feel much happier and peppier :)

 

 

LTP meaning long term potentiation?  Is there anything you could recommend for this?

 

Thanks!



#10 Ritchie

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:02 AM

Oh and have you looked in to chinese skullcap? I have made a thread about it on the brain health forums.

One of it's alkaloids has displayed potent dopamine reuptake inhibition activity in a similar fashion to Ritalin.

Another one of it's alkaloids has an anti-anxiety effect without causing sedation or muscle relaxion.

If you need to find the links to those studys, their on the thread I made.



#11 Sasha_

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 02:00 PM

I would be careful mixing rhodiola with modafinil and coffee, especially if the intended result is to reduce irritability.

You might get a bit of a "heat" from rodhiola, made me cranky at times especially combined with coffee, gave me headaches too !

But since you plan on taking it with ashwagandha, I don't know what to expect, it might well take the edge of rhodiola.

Doesn't seem unsafe to me though, but you may either get a bit more irritable or a bit manic, I am really curious to know how it turned

out, please let us know !



#12 AmpleBeingdotcom

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 12:55 AM

 

Kaizn,

 

You should add an LTP stack to your regimen. If has a noticeable effect on productivity and improved mood. 

 

I have been perfecting our stack for over and year and it has made me FAR more productive than i used to be and i am really able to focus on the tasks i have at hand.

 

You would have to ask the people around me about the mood, but i feel much happier and peppier :)

 

 

LTP meaning long term potentiation?  Is there anything you could recommend for this?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Yes, Long Term Potentiation. I have been super focused on creating an awesome stack for LTP/Studying/Productivity/Focus and i think our team came up with a pretty killer combo.

 

Quite a few members on this forum are currently taking our stack (MasterMind) and having some awesome results.

 

Let me know if you need clarification on anything, you may be new to the whole LTP stack. I will help give you a better understanding :)


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#13 TheFountain

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 12:47 AM

Has anyone tried Holy Basil and L-Theanine at the same time? 

 

 







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: l-tyrosine, modafinil, bacopa, ginkgo, lions mane

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