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Coca Leaves As A Nootropic?

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#1 Ritchie

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 04:35 AM


I’ve been chewing Coca leaves for about six months now and have experienced amazing improvements in focus and motivation, which is surprising because I have severe ADHD and up to this point only Ritalin could do this.

What is interesting though, is that I only got these effects after long term, chronic chewing. Short term effects are similar to caffeine(no nootropic effects) except more pleasant (Great anti-depressant and no crash, for example)

In terms of side effects, there are none. They are completely non-addictive IME. Large amounts of Coca did give me a fast heartbeat, but to be fair one cup of coffee also does this to me.

So, have any of you used Coca leaves as a nootropic?


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#2 Galaxyshock

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 07:01 AM

Are there other active ingredients besides cocaine in the leaves?



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#3 YOLF

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 07:13 AM

Ecgonine is the primary ingredient of Coca tea/Coca leaf. It is both the precursor and metabolite of cocaine and is responsible for the effects of cocaine after about 20-30 minutes IIRC. It's also a very potent weightloss compound and is more responsible for weight loss in coke users than the cocaine. I actually sat down some time ago and figured that it would 20,000 glasses of Coca tea to produce a single dose of cocaine. It really is pretty insignificant. The chemistry involved in coke production is about turning the ecgonine into cocaine. 

 

My question would be how long are the coca leaves good for? I've been interested in using it for weightloss and energy but have heard that the ecgonine isn't very stable, so I might be wasting my money. How long did it take from the time you ordered your coca tea to the time you got it and how old is it? Where did you get it from and what brand? Please keep in touch. I'd like to know how long this stuff lasts and whether you're getting the same effects a week or two from now. Can you set aside a few cups worth for this experiment?

 

Oh, and yes, I'd imagine that ecgonine makes a great cognitive enhancer. Though as it's used to produce cocaine, it is some kind of controlled/scheduled substance (not really sure where it fits in, but you need a DEA permit to get it in the US). I had even previously thought Coca tea was illegal in the US because of that until I saw it being sold on Amazon. 

 

I hear masticating it with an alkali is the best way to take it. That apparently makes the ecgonine much more readily absorbable. It's been around 5-6 years since I researched this topic though.


Edited by cryonicsculture, 21 April 2014 - 07:17 AM.

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#4 Geoffrey

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 07:17 AM

A couple of cups of coca tea give me a warm buzz and seem to synergize well with the racetams. But it's nothing extreme, and certainly no more stimulating than coffee. You'd have a hard time getting high on it. The indigenous people of the Andes chew it with an alkaline substance to extract more of the active alkaloids. Are you doing the same?



#5 renfr

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 11:19 AM

Where can you buy these? I couldnt't find them on Amazon or eBay.
It's quite surprislng that it's actually legal, apparently it was removed from the UN 1961 convention from what I read.
I'd be interested in buying them but only if I can find a EU supplier.
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#6 Ritchie

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 04:45 PM

Are there other active ingredients besides cocaine in the leaves?

Coca leaves apparently also contain Reserpine, which is and irreversible VMAT inhibitor. I'm thinking this may be why coca has few side effects and why it may be non-addictive but what doesn't make sense to me is that should'nt an irreversable VMAT inhibitor cause long term depression and apathy? Because for me it does the exact opposite.

A couple of cups of coca tea give me a warm buzz and seem to synergize well with the racetams. But it's nothing extreme, and certainly no more stimulating than coffee. You'd have a hard time getting high on it. The indigenous people of the Andes chew it with an alkaline substance to extract more of the active alkaloids. Are you doing the same?

Yes, drinking coca tea is like coffee for me, maybe a little less jittery but i haven't noticed. Chewing the leaves is where the real effects kick in. Its like a decent anti-depressant effect(or even mild euphoria with good quality leaves) and pleaseant stimulation along with very strong and very pleaseant Local anesthesia(In the mouth). I chew with baking soda because it seems to be the least harmful alkaline substance that can be used.

Where can you buy these? I couldnt't find them on Amazon or eBay.
It's quite surprislng that it's actually legal, apparently it was removed from the UN 1961 convention from what I read.
I'd be interested in buying them but only if I can find a EU supplier.

I am not sure if i'm allowed to give out any sources, but i'll tell you this: My supplier ships from Boston.


Ecgonine is the primary ingredient of Coca tea/Coca leaf. It is both the precursor and metabolite of cocaine and is responsible for the effects of cocaine after about 20-30 minutes IIRC. It's also a very potent weightloss compound and is more responsible for weight loss in coke users than the cocaine. I actually sat down some time ago and figured that it would 20,000 glasses of Coca tea to produce a single dose of cocaine. It really is pretty insignificant. The chemistry involved in coke production is about turning the ecgonine into cocaine. 

 

My question would be how long are the coca leaves good for? I've been interested in using it for weightloss and energy but have heard that the ecgonine isn't very stable, so I might be wasting my money. How long did it take from the time you ordered your coca tea to the time you got it and how old is it? Where did you get it from and what brand? Please keep in touch. I'd like to know how long this stuff lasts and whether you're getting the same effects a week or two from now. Can you set aside a few cups worth for this experiment?

 

Oh, and yes, I'd imagine that ecgonine makes a great cognitive enhancer. Though as it's used to produce cocaine, it is some kind of controlled/scheduled substance (not really sure where it fits in, but you need a DEA permit to get it in the US). I had even previously thought Coca tea was illegal in the US because of that until I saw it being sold on Amazon. 

 

I hear masticating it with an alkali is the best way to take it. That apparently makes the ecgonine much more readily absorbable. It's been around 5-6 years since I researched this topic though.

Again i'm not sure if i'm allowed to give out sources, but to answer your question, coca leaves last for a pretty long time. As long as their kept in a air tight back, they last for like 2-6 months(IME).



#7 YOLF

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 05:48 PM

So if you quit using the Coca tea, do you get depression? The VMAT inhibition sounds like it we should discuss it. I'm seeing information that VMAT Inhibition can cause an increase in oxidative stress in the brain. Can anyone think of some good counter measures?



#8 protoject

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 06:18 PM

Too bad coca leaves are illegal. They really shouldn't be. I'm in Toronto , Canada and if I knew where to buy them here, I would. It's not like I'm trying to do cocaine...


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#9 YOLF

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:05 PM

I was reading that it all has to do with serving size and potency. As long as there is less than "x" cocaine per serving size, it's legal.



#10 Ritchie

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:33 PM

So if you quit using the Coca tea, do you get depression? The VMAT inhibition sounds like it we should discuss it. I'm seeing information that VMAT Inhibition can cause an increase in oxidative stress in the brain. Can anyone think of some good counter measures?

 

I do not get depression if i quit. On the contrary i feel much happier and less depressed/anxious than i used to even if i'm not under the influence of coca. One time when i did binge on coca(had an exam) i had an empty feeling, but that resolved itself after i got a good night sleep and the next day i felt refreshed and "back to normal". Also i'm currently supplement with cysteine and coca tea is supposed to be very high in anti-oxidants.


I was reading that it all has to do with serving size and potency. As long as there is less than "x" cocaine per serving size, it's legal.

 

Legality also has to do with strains. Apparently only the coca and novantegrese strains are scheduled substances where as ipadu and truxillense leaves are technically unsceduled making them technically legal.
 


Edited by Ritchie, 21 April 2014 - 08:37 PM.


#11 Ritchie

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 10:14 PM

I have lost some weight but that may be due to the fact that Coca is a VERY strong appetite suppresant.



#12 YOLF

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:25 AM

 

So if you quit using the Coca tea, do you get depression? The VMAT inhibition sounds like it we should discuss it. I'm seeing information that VMAT Inhibition can cause an increase in oxidative stress in the brain. Can anyone think of some good counter measures?

 

I do not get depression if i quit. On the contrary i feel much happier and less depressed/anxious than i used to even if i'm not under the influence of coca. One time when i did binge on coca(had an exam) i had an empty feeling, but that resolved itself after i got a good night sleep and the next day i felt refreshed and "back to normal". Also i'm currently supplement with cysteine and coca tea is supposed to be very high in anti-oxidants.


I was reading that it all has to do with serving size and potency. As long as there is less than "x" cocaine per serving size, it's legal.

 

Legality also has to do with strains. Apparently only the coca and novantegrese strains are scheduled substances where as ipadu and truxillense leaves are technically unsceduled making them technically legal.
 

 

Ecgonine can take a few days to leave your system. Have you tried going without it for more than 3 days?



#13 Ritchie

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:31 AM

 

 

So if you quit using the Coca tea, do you get depression? The VMAT inhibition sounds like it we should discuss it. I'm seeing information that VMAT Inhibition can cause an increase in oxidative stress in the brain. Can anyone think of some good counter measures?

 

I do not get depression if i quit. On the contrary i feel much happier and less depressed/anxious than i used to even if i'm not under the influence of coca. One time when i did binge on coca(had an exam) i had an empty feeling, but that resolved itself after i got a good night sleep and the next day i felt refreshed and "back to normal". Also i'm currently supplement with cysteine and coca tea is supposed to be very high in anti-oxidants.


I was reading that it all has to do with serving size and potency. As long as there is less than "x" cocaine per serving size, it's legal.

 

Legality also has to do with strains. Apparently only the coca and novantegrese strains are scheduled substances where as ipadu and truxillense leaves are technically unsceduled making them technically legal.
 

 

Ecgonine can take a few days to leave your system. Have you tried going without it for more than 3 days?

 

 

Yes, i have stopped using coca for up to 2 weeks because i ran out of leaves and had to wait for more to arrive. I can honestly say, withdrawl symptoms from coca leaves do not exist. I've binged on it for weeks at certain times and stopped with no repurcussions. Like i mentioned i did lose weight in the last couple of months, but I do not know if this is because of ecgonine or because of the strong appetite supression that coca produces.

 



#14 normalizing

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 02:16 AM

while i was looking for supplier i found this old thread i did; http://www.longecity...67638-caca-tea/ several mentions of sources there but i never tried to see if reliable and it seems nobody else have either. if possible someone can try some of those and see if they work out well. i see one is organic source and i assume coca is usually sprayed with tons of pesticides, best is to consume them organic?



#15 chemicalambrosia

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 02:58 AM


I am not sure if i'm allowed to give out any sources, but i'll tell you this: My supplier ships from Boston.

 

You are allowed to post sources, and it helps people on the board avoid bad sellers and support good ones. Is this the seller? http://www.mysteriou...vlet/StoreFront

If so, the whole leaves look somewhat expensive, or perhaps ridiculously expensive, depending on effective dose. What is a typical dose and how much do you end up spending on leaves in a month or so?

 



#16 Ritchie

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 03:02 AM

 


I am not sure if i'm allowed to give out any sources, but i'll tell you this: My supplier ships from Boston.

 

You are allowed to post sources, and it helps people on the board avoid bad sellers and support good ones. Is this the seller? http://www.mysteriou...vlet/StoreFront

If so, the whole leaves look somewhat expensive, or perhaps ridiculously expensive, depending on effective dose. What is a typical dose and how much do you end up spending on leaves in a month or so?

 

 

That is my source, but they're new website is www.novoandinastore.com

How many whole leaves i chew depends on the quality. With high quality leaves, 4grams is enough. With low quality leaves 8-10grams may be necessary.

Before you buy it though, I would like to state that you will not get high on coca leaves. They contain very little cocaine and have other alkaloids which mitigate its effects. It's a great caffeine replacement though.

 



#17 p3x888

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:39 PM

So the source you order from, are they consistently good quality?

 



#18 Ritchie

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:46 PM

So the source you order from, are they consistently good quality?
 

They're decent. Quality really depends on other factors such as the weather in South America and other factors.

#19 machete234

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:14 PM

Interesting for sure but its a pity that these are probably 100% illegal in most of the world.

That they are good for concentration makes sense in a way because cocaine is a DARI similar to ritalin.

It would be great to consume this stuff the natural way Im almost sure this is a lot more harmless than the extract.

Apparently the tea from the leaves is more healthy than harmful.

 

Can somebody compare it to yerba mate? In my oppinion this is a strange stimulant too and the effects can not explained 100% by caffeine.

 

Ecgonine is the primary ingredient of Coca tea/Coca leaf. It is both the precursor and metabolite of cocaine and is responsible for the effects of cocaine after about 20-30 minutes IIRC. It's also a very potent weightloss compound and is more responsible for weight loss in coke users than the cocaine. I actually sat down some time ago and figured that it would 20,000 glasses of Coca tea to produce a single dose of cocaine. It really is pretty insignificant. The chemistry involved in coke production is about turning the ecgonine into cocaine.

So you say that cocaine does not have the same ratios of alcaloids as the plant?

I thought the extraction is very crude and done with kerosine, so how do they "standardize" for cocaine?


Edited by machete234, 22 April 2014 - 01:22 PM.


#20 Ritchie

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:20 PM

Interesting for sure but its a pity that these are probably 100% illegal in most of the world.
That they are good for concentration makes sense in a way because cocaine is a DARI similar to ritalin.
It would be great to consume this stuff the natural way Im almost sure this is a lot more harmless than the extract.
Apparently the tea from the leaves is more healthy than harmful.

In theory, what you're saying is correct but this has not been my experience. Short term effects of coca barely affects my focus and concentration, it's mostly a pleasant physical stimulation similar to caffeine. However now that I've been using it for a long time I've noticed dramatic improvements in focus and motivation. It's been getting so good that I'm actually able to function without Ritalin whereas before I would be unable too. I'm not sure if the coca resolved a deficiency I had(Coca is highly nutritious) or maybe their is some other mechanism at play but I am grateful.

#21 Ritchie

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:29 PM

Interesting for sure but its a pity that these are probably 100% illegal in most of the world.
That they are good for concentration makes sense in a way because cocaine is a DARI similar to ritalin.
It would be great to consume this stuff the natural way Im almost sure this is a lot more harmless than the extract.
Apparently the tea from the leaves is more healthy than harmful.
 
Can somebody compare it to yerba mate? In my oppinion this is a strange stimulant too and the effects can not explained 100% by caffeine.

I've tried Yerba mate and it didn't give me any sort of stimulation, at least nothing that I wouldn't consider placebo. Honestly, caffeine feels like such a dirty and unpleasant stimulant when compared to coca. Coca tea just feels so much "cleaner". I have a mild panic disorder along with anxiety and depression. Coffee generally makes me pace nervously or make me otherwise uncomfortable. And the when it wares off I get a really bad crash. With Coca however, the stimulation is very pleasant. It makes me feel happy and content and it is strangely relaxing, almost borderline sedating. I can drink a strong cup of coca tea then sit down and relax whereas I would be unable to do this with caffeine.

#22 LaViidaLocaa

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:46 PM

I have been to Peru last summer for three weeks to do voluntary work in a hospital. In my free time, I hiked a lot and chewed on the coca leaves as the Incas and Peruvians rely on it for energy during long hikes or efforts. It honestly gives you a boost and is quite tasty as well. I literally ran up the mountains from Macchu Pichu after already walking around there for 12 hours!
Too bad the leaves are illegal, since they are maybe the most nutrient rich food source and non-addictive. The local Coca Museum in Cuzco said you need to chew 40 kg! to even feel a buzz such as cocaine, which is not realistic of course.

#23 YOLF

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:54 PM

Interesting for sure but its a pity that these are probably 100% illegal in most of the world.

That they are good for concentration makes sense in a way because cocaine is a DARI similar to ritalin.

It would be great to consume this stuff the natural way Im almost sure this is a lot more harmless than the extract.

Apparently the tea from the leaves is more healthy than harmful.

 

Can somebody compare it to yerba mate? In my oppinion this is a strange stimulant too and the effects can not explained 100% by caffeine.

 

Ecgonine is the primary ingredient of Coca tea/Coca leaf. It is both the precursor and metabolite of cocaine and is responsible for the effects of cocaine after about 20-30 minutes IIRC. It's also a very potent weightloss compound and is more responsible for weight loss in coke users than the cocaine. I actually sat down some time ago and figured that it would 20,000 glasses of Coca tea to produce a single dose of cocaine. It really is pretty insignificant. The chemistry involved in coke production is about turning the ecgonine into cocaine.

So you say that cocaine does not have the same ratios of alcaloids as the plant?

I thought the extraction is very crude and done with kerosine, so how do they "standardize" for cocaine?

Nope. Cocaine is supposed to be a pure substance. I'm not sure how it's extracted... Historically, the coca leaves would lose potency by the time they crossed the Atlantic and arrived in Europe and the Coca plant won't grow their either. So they experimented with extractions and such and discovered cocaine synthesis. That's why we have cocaine.



#24 YOLF

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:59 PM

 

Interesting for sure but its a pity that these are probably 100% illegal in most of the world.
That they are good for concentration makes sense in a way because cocaine is a DARI similar to ritalin.
It would be great to consume this stuff the natural way Im almost sure this is a lot more harmless than the extract.
Apparently the tea from the leaves is more healthy than harmful.

In theory, what you're saying is correct but this has not been my experience. Short term effects of coca barely affects my focus and concentration, it's mostly a pleasant physical stimulation similar to caffeine. However now that I've been using it for a long time I've noticed dramatic improvements in focus and motivation. It's been getting so good that I'm actually able to function without Ritalin whereas before I would be unable too. I'm not sure if the coca resolved a deficiency I had(Coca is highly nutritious) or maybe their is some other mechanism at play but I am grateful.

 

Cocaine can change brain structures, not sure about the rest of the alkaloids, but I suppose it's possible... perhaps the small amount of cocaine is making the changes?



#25 Ritchie

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:24 PM


 

Interesting for sure but its a pity that these are probably 100% illegal in most of the world.
That they are good for concentration makes sense in a way because cocaine is a DARI similar to ritalin.
It would be great to consume this stuff the natural way Im almost sure this is a lot more harmless than the extract.
Apparently the tea from the leaves is more healthy than harmful.

In theory, what you're saying is correct but this has not been my experience. Short term effects of coca barely affects my focus and concentration, it's mostly a pleasant physical stimulation similar to caffeine. However now that I've been using it for a long time I've noticed dramatic improvements in focus and motivation. It's been getting so good that I'm actually able to function without Ritalin whereas before I would be unable too. I'm not sure if the coca resolved a deficiency I had(Coca is highly nutritious) or maybe their is some other mechanism at play but I am grateful.
 
Cocaine can change brain structures, not sure about the rest of the alkaloids, but I suppose it's possible... perhaps the small amount of cocaine is making the changes?
Could be, but wouldn't the cocaine cause down regulation of dopamine, serotonin and noradrenalin? I'm thinking maybe the Reserpine is causing up regulation. It could also be some of the othe alkaloids here is the full list of alkaloids(according to drug forums):

- Cocaine ( C.N.S. stimulant and euphoriant dopamine reuptake inhibitor, local anesthetic)
- Ecgonine ( both metabolite and precurser of cocaine, works on carbohydrate metabolism)
- Pectin (a heterosaccharide derived from the cell wall of the coca plant, oral demulcent which allivates sore throats, anti diarrhea)
- Papain (cysteine protease, useful in boosting antibodies, as a teeth whitener and as a remedy in that it breaks down the protein toxins of venom)
- Hygrine (pyrrolidine alkaloid, stimulates saliva glands)
- Nicotine
- Globulin ( one of the two types of serum proteins, the other being albumin, which play a role in immunology by inhibiting certain blood protease)
- Pyridine (heterocyclic aromatic organic compound, stimulates circulation and oxygenation of the brain )
- Quinoline (heterocyclic aromatic organic compound with preservative and disinfectant qualities, balances calcium and phosphorous)
- Coniine ( neurotoxin, local anesthetic)
- Cocamine ( anesthetic, analgesic)
- Reserpine (indole alkaloid with antipsychotic, antidepressant and antihypertensive qualities, blocks the uptake (and storage) of noradrenaline and dopamine into synaptic vesicles by inhibiting the Vesicular Monoamine Transporters, diminishes blood pressure )
- Benzoine ( skin healing effect)
- Inulin (naturally occurring oligosaccharides ie several simple sugars linked together, which increases calcium absorption and possibly magnesium absorption, while promoting intestinal bacteria, and is thus an effective prebiotic, stimulates immuglobine production)
- Atropine ( tropane alkaloid, which lowers the "rest and digest" activity of all muscles and glands regulated by the parasympathetic nervous system )



Read more: http://www.drugs-for...a#ixzz2ze2SsavQ

#26 Ritchie

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:36 PM

I have been to Peru last summer for three weeks to do voluntary work in a hospital. In my free time, I hiked a lot and chewed on the coca leaves as the Incas and Peruvians rely on it for energy during long hikes or efforts. It honestly gives you a boost and is quite tasty as well. I literally ran up the mountains from Macchu Pichu after already walking around there for 12 hours!
Too bad the leaves are illegal, since they are maybe the most nutrient rich food source and non-addictive. The local Coca Museum in Cuzco said you need to chew 40 kg! to even feel a buzz such as cocaine, which is not realistic of course.

I'm going to try to visit Peru this summer and I'm excited because the coca leaves over there are apparently stronger than anything you can get shipped because the leaves lose potency during packaging/shippin

Edited by Ritchie, 22 April 2014 - 07:37 PM.


#27 YOLF

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:40 PM

I wonder how we could remove the coniine or compensate for it's effects. I hope the nicotine wouldn't interfere with my life insurance. Though the nicotine found in tomatoes when eaten as food doesn't constitute nicotine use.

 

Pyridine increases oxygen to the brain and might be a contributor to the benefits, tho nicotine also reduces it.



#28 Ritchie

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:48 PM

I wonder how we could remove the coniine or compensate for it's effects. I hope the nicotine wouldn't interfere with my life insurance. Though the nicotine found in tomatoes when eaten as food doesn't constitute nicotine use.
 
Pyridine increases oxygen to the brain and might be a contributor to the benefits, tho nicotine also reduces it.


From what I've read apparently the nicotine is present in very low concentrations simIilar to tomatoes, so no effects come from it. One concern I have is that both Reserpine and coniine are neurotoxic but cocaine is supposed to have a neuroprotective effect(in low dose) if I'm not mistaken.

#29 YOLF

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:11 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coniine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserpine

 

How much of this stuff is there in a dose. It looks like it may not be enough to warrant concern. Though I'd still think that we'd be better without it or with something to reduce the effects of it.

 



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#30 Ritchie

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:28 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coniine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserpine

 

How much of this stuff is there in a dose. It looks like it may not be enough to warrant concern. Though I'd still think that we'd be better without it or with something to reduce the effects of it.

 

Alas, there has been no studies done on the actual concentration of alkaloids in coca. The ones i found either find only the cocaine concentration of the leaves, or the nutritional content. I did find very broad studies stating that coca leaves are harmless and non-addictive(http://www.ncbi.nlm....v/pubmed/696708) or that states that coca is benficial for exercise(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21731204) or that even coca chewing is harmless(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23128829) but nothing more specific than that. It seems that very little research has been done on coca, unfortunately. While it is no warrant of safety, coca leaves have been chewed for more than 5000 years in Peru and their has never been a single mention of side effects. Also I did not experience any of the side effects of reserpine(not even the runny nose) and of course coniine was very low because i'm not dead. However i'm opened to any suggestions to mitigate any negative effects that may arise from these alkaloids. Coca is supposed to be high in antioxidants and i supplement with 500mg N-acetyl-Cysteine daily, what else could be done?

 






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