34 replies to this topic

[protoject]

TLDR: Vitamin A appears to have improved my sleep.

//Form://    Animal source vitamin a from cod liver oil. (webber naturals)
//Current dosage://    2500 UI. (2 pills).

//How to take://    With dinner, preferably at least 4 hours before bed.

//Evidence it might work://    In mice, it has been shown to improve delta power during NREM stage 3 slow-wave sleep compared to vitamin-a deficient mice. It's more interesting than that, see attached PDF for details.

//Side effects?// There is fatigue and a lowering of appetite and some apathy. However, it seems this is more true  if I take a higher dose and less so if I take a lower one.

//Confounding factors//  I already have an underlying dysthymia, am taking a very low dose of sleep drugs, and am weaning off these drugs, i have iron deficiency.

-------------------------------------

Good day.

So I've had success with insomnia yet again, but this time with a very unlikely vitamin!

Never knew this could help.

 

So as some of you know, I have had extreme chronic insomnia for a long time.

You also may know that I've tried to treat it with drugs, and I've had some very good success there.

Trazodone helps with sleep initiation, pregabalin with sleep depth and maintaining sleep , gaining hours... eplivanserin had good effect as well, and from time to time etizolam worked if I was taking it for a short period.

 

However, I didn't wish to continue taking those drugs as they come with their own complications, and I hoped I could regain sleep by some other way.

Mostly, I've been trying to find the cause of not only my insomnia, but some other issues I'm having (i.e. tachycardia). it may possibly be anxiety but I'm not sure.

 

Anyway, the doctor did find out I'm lacking iron about a year and a half ago. Back then I started dosing up on a form of Iron Polysaccharide called Feramax. If I get it correctly, it's practically heme iron and it gives much less side effects than other forms of iron, at least in the gut. So I was taking feramax, between 150-300 mg of iron a day. This gave me side effects of being really irritable, I felt like it did something to me mentally that I didn't like... and it didn't really seem to help! So I've taken this on and off. I try to persist as long as I can, i.e. a week or two, then i stop for a few weeks, then I start again, and there have been periods where I stopped for a few months.

 

For the most part, I'm not sure if I noticed any benefits from iron to be honest.

I thought perhaps if I combine it with vitamin A, since vitamin A helps to transport iron in the body and improves response to iron supplements, that maybe this would help.

 

I did notice an improvement in sleep, however , there were a few problems:

-the iron made me feel pretty crappy.

-The vitamin a made me tired as hell, because I was taking 10,000 UI a day!!!! (it was the only pill I had)

 

I actually noticed that improvement in sleep about a year ago, and I thought it was from the combination of iron and vitamin a. Of course both were giving me side effects. The vitamin A dosage was way too high!

 

I bought another vitamin A supplement. I was trying to find a supplement that didn't have too much fat in it, and not too much other nutrients. For example, there is cod liver oil out there I could use but I wanted to make sure it didn't have too much fish oil, omega 3's, wasn't too high in vitamin D etc. Practically, a bare minimum of anything else, since I don't want to confound my experiment with other things. Eventually I found a vitamin A that has approximately 100% of the RDA in one pill.

 

At first, i was taking this on the same day as iron, but I had to stop because the iron either induced some sort of gastritis, or it bothered existing ulcers in my stomach. It was a surprise to me because I'd taken this iron before without that same issue, but then about a month ago I developed gastritis, and since then it seems that if I begin to take either iron or garlic that my stomach becomes progressively worse. So the iron is out the window, at least for now.

 

I continued to take vitamin a, and I've noticed consistent improvements apart from the iron. Usually I've taken 2 or 3 tablets.

 Let's put it this way.

 

For a while I stopped both iron and vitamin a. I also progressively lowered all my sleep meds to almost nothing, but I tapered at a reasonable speed. My sleep was almost absolutely destroyed. I began taking vitamin a again.

 

I've tried taking the vitamin A in the morning, and directly before bed. But it seems to work much better if taken several hours before bed, because that way, when the tiredness kicks in from the vitamin a you can sleep without it affecting your day negatively so much. Also it doesn't seem to kick in as well if you take it directly before bed. Apparently it might even make sleep a bit weird if taken immediately before sleep (like a groggy sleep), though it's hard for me to say.

 

One reason I really think this is working is because there have been several occasions where I've weaned myself to a low level of sleep drugs and have tried to stay off them for a week or two, , wasn't taking vitamin a on a consistent basis,  and I've had horrible results with sleep almost every time.  I've also gone almost drug-free and was taking 150mg-300mg iron consistently and saw no consistent improvement in sleep. (if you've seen my "weird tachycardia" thread you will see me complaining about that).

 

Right now I've had about 4 or 5 days of consistently good sleep from taking vitamin A with dinner.

My sleep drugs are super low right now. 12.5 mg trazodone and 50 mg pregabalin. I've never been able to survive on such a dose. (previously 50 and 150 were more likely to do something).

 

I'm going to continue to wean off the drugs and use vitamin A and I will return to this thread if it continues to work. I've never in the course of this entire year been able to get away with doing something like this.

 

BTW. I think there is some link between vitamin A and iron stores which I'm not completely clear on. For example, the fact that vitamin A is working for me could still have something to do with my iron deficiency.

And, it's not working for tachycardia, only sleep.

 

 

 

[protoject]

edit: see attachment

Attached Files

•  Vitamin_a_and_sleep_regulation.pdf   749.19KB   57 downloads

[penisbreath]

Thanks for this -- very interesting; I'm always looking for something to help insomnia, and have some 10k IU gels, so will experiment ..

[protoject]

Thanks for this -- very interesting; I'm always looking for something to help insomnia, and have some 10k IU gels, so will experiment ..

 

 

It seems to work best taken with food.

10k might be too much but I guess you will see. (you will know 'cause you will get side effects).

Since I've been taking it for a while I guess it's built up in my system now, I got away with taking only 1250 iu last night but I can definitely feel it so  I think it's working

[protoject]

sorry if im providing shitty solutions guys, Im trying to tackle the issue. Im not sure Vitamin A continued to work for me, i think it stopped working or may have been placebo, either that or it was combining well with my Iron supplement (iron; which im depleted of). 

However I did find the research interesting and I hope that it can help someone else.

I also still found it interesting that even though I lowered my sleep meds I was still able to get more sleep than usual, which was usually impossible.

[HoldingTheFaith]

Yep, cod liver oil is another supplement I have taken, very high quality, highest vitamin A count on iherb. It didn´t do anything for me, sleep wise or anything wise.

 

Also, one year later with a more nuanced criteria I can see the disadvantage of taking such a huge lipid soluble vitamin and have even read of people developing a long lasting hypervitaminosis from it.

[Ames]

I just started taking Vitamin A.

 

The first day I took a challenge dose of 25k IU (dry form capsule), with around 600 iu of Vitamin D and then went and spent about 2 hours in some intense late day sun. I have eye issues, and so the challenge dose was worth it for me in spite of any supposed risks.

 

I didn't feel much until the next day, or maybe even the day after, after which I started needing to take mid-day naps. I couldn't keep my eyes open.

 

I haven't felt such a strong need for that since college, and it felt good. The need continued for 2-3 days before I stopped feeling an effect.

 

After the effect wore off a bit, I switched brands and took a Solgar 5k iu dry dose (tablet) with, at first, no vitamin D and I did not venture out into the sun. On the afternoon of the day that I took it, the need for a mid-day afternoon nap hit me stronger than before. That night, I slept like a rock.

 

Upon waking, I felt a little too drowsy, took 100 IU of D3, and fell back asleep. The D3 definitely improved how I felt. I took another 200 IU of D3 upon waking, but didn't feel any difference from it.

 

Today, I didn't nap but felt a little bit sedated.

 

I'm going to continue experimenting with A and D dose combinations. Without D, 5k IU felt too strong. I'd either cut that in half or be sure to take it with D; which seems to either limit or delay the sleep effect.

 

If anyone has issues with the effects of retinol palmitate wearing off, I'd recommend either a significant D3 dose alone or in ratio with the vitamin A (maybe 5:1 A:D), as this may assist in recovery of your sensitivity to A. K may also be another one to throw in the mix with D (I'd start with as little of K as possible), as well as either C or E to prevent oxidation of A. Though, the K,C, and E recommendations are not anything that I've yet experimented with myself in combination with A. I'm working up to it and I would recommend only open minded trials; not sticking to any dogma on what you feel should work well.

 

Note that after doing a lot of reading on A, to include on Cod Liver Oil, I came to the conclusion that there is no advantage to Cod Liver Oil over Retinyl Palmitate isolate. Whoever says that there is promoting hype. Retinyl Palmitate is what you get in Cod Liver Oil, and there are no appreciable "co-factors" with the oil. Add vitamin D, and you are getting everything that is supposedly in the oil. However, I will note that I've come across a significant volume of posts, across the internet, that held that they have felt nothing from Cod Liver Oil. To me, this might be an indication that there is even less Vitamin A absorption, or presence, in the oil than indicated in the advertisements.

 

Edited by golgi1, 17 July 2016 - 03:30 AM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Leucine/BCAA works for sleep in me. I sleep heavily and for long. Sort of like taking melatonin.

[gamesguru]

what about other sources of vitamin a, like vegetables. the gamma and delta forms? anything on deep REM sleep??

[protoject]

vit a/ vit d dosing

Hey, it's interesting you mentioned Vit D too. This is years later from my original post but i rebooted this vitamin a attempt, I think the dose is lower, its like 200% normal values.  It seems the vitamin a still helps with my sleep meds. I did find that if I take vitamin d, my sleep is actually much worse. Which sucks because I have both vitamin d deficiency and depression, and it's required i take it. But I stopped taking it for the past few weeks because I slept worse every time i took it. 

i do find that interesting that I am seeing opposite effects between vitamin d and vitamin a. But I know I shouldn't be that surprised since there is some paper stuff saying vit d interferes with sleep,... though I'm not really sure how strong the link is.

[protoject]

what about other sources of vitamin a, like vegetables. the gamma and delta forms? anything on deep REM sleep??

 I haven't tried it but I think it would be interesting to try since it would technically be safer as far as i know

[gamesguru]

 I haven't tried it but I think it would be interesting to try since it would technically be safer as far as i know

 

You might want to try it since the other way is f*cking retarded my mate

[protoject]

You might want to try it since the other way is f*cking retarded my mate

Why so? I seem to be perfectly tolerating the 200%. Though I could understand your reasoning for both 10k ui and for 200%
But at least 200 percent is so easily controlled.. That and it seems to be thay it I skip it that my sleep is worse! (but in my case I have some stomach problem which has shown signs in my blood tests of possible malnutrition. So it might be particular to me).

At worst, say someone took 200% (retinol form) once every 2 days. Is it that bad?
*that if I skip... Sorry no edit function on my phone

[pamojja]

At worst, say someone took 200% (retinol form) once every 2 days. Is it that bad?

 

All depends on individual needs. I've been very careful with vitamin A by slowly titrating up to 25.000 IU per day in the course of 10 years, while monitoring serum levels incl. Retinol binding protein. At the higher intake suddenly my infrequent psoriasis outbreaks completely ceased. While serum level only raised a bid and are still low normal. Only side-effect was that I lost my taste for canned cod-liver (about 60.000 IU per 100g can).

 

Reason I might have needed so much Retinol might be because before the 10 years supplementing I actually been vegan for 30 years, and beta-carotene might not convert into retinol in a substantial part of the population. So nutrient needs can be highly individual.

 

 

[gamesguru]

Why so? I seem to be perfectly tolerating the 200%. Though I could understand your reasoning for both 10k ui and for 200%
But at least 200 percent is so easily controlled.. That and it seems to be thay it I skip it that my sleep is worse! (but in my case I have some stomach problem which has shown signs in my blood tests of possible malnutrition. So it might be particular to me).

At worst, say someone took 200% (retinol form) once every 2 days. Is it that bad?
*that if I skip... Sorry no edit function on my phone

 

What I take offense to is not the dose, but rather the form.. presumably the highly synthetic and controversial dl-alpha- or at best the ubiquitous natural d-alpha- tocopheryl acetate.  gamma and other forms may be harder to come by, but they are also the ones likeliest to save your life.  Is 200iu of the generic stuff "bad"?  No I can't say that.  But sweet potato and walnuts offer a roughly equivalent daily dose of a superior isomer to what you are suggesting to take in the inferior form of a pill

 

Retinol is anyways one of the rarest deficiencies in first world nations, if you were truly in need of supplementation it would almost invariably speak to the (lack of) quality in your diet.  A deficiency of many years could be corrected in a few months, so I'm not sure what this line of reasoning is about and a skin condition could really resolve itself at any coincidental moment.  Surpluses also have no measurable benefit on health, high supplemental consumption may even be bad for some.  You're better off cooking a bit for yourself

[pamojja]

Retinol is anyways one of the rarest deficiencies in first world nations,

 

By far not the rarest, but the 4th most common - right after Vitamin D, E and Magnesium - actually affecting 51% of adults in the US:

 

How Much is Too Much? : Appendix B: Vitamin and Mineral Deficiencies in the U.S.

Nutrient from food alone, ranked by the occurrence of dietary inadequacy among adults | Percentage of dietary intakes below the estimated average requirement for a specific population* | Naturally occurring sources of nutrient**

2-to-8-year-old children | 14-to-18-year-old girls | Adults 19 and older

Vitamin D | 81% | 98% | 95% | Fatty fish, mushrooms [vitamin D is naturally formed in the body when skin is exposed to sunlight; vitamin D is added to fortified milk]

Vitamin E | 65% | 99% | 94% | Nuts, seeds, vegetable oils, green leafy vegetables

Magnesium | 2% | 90% | 61% | Whole grains, wheat bran and wheat germ, green leafy vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds

Vitamin A | 6% | 57% | 51% | Preformed vitamin A: liver, fatty fish, milk, eggs; provitamin A carotenoids: carrots, pumpkins, tomatoes, leafy green vegetables

Calcium | 23% | 81% | 49% | Milk, yogurt, cheese, kale, broccoli

Vitamin C | 2% | 45% | 43% | All fruits and vegetables, particularly citrus fruits and tomatoes

Vitamin B6 | 0.1% | 18% | 15% | Many foods; highest levels in fish, beef, poultry, potatoes and other starchy vegetables, and fruit other than citrus

Folate | 0.2% | 19% | 13% | Many foods; highest levels in spinach, liver, asparagus, Brussels sprouts [mandatory, standardized addition to enriched flour and flour products]

Zinc | 0.2% | 24% | 12% | Red meat, poultry, beans, nuts, some seafood, whole grains

Iron | 0.7% | 12% | 8% | Highest amounts in meat and seafood; lower levels in nuts and beans [mandatory, standardized addition to enriched flour and flour products]

Thiamin | 0.1% | 10% | 7% | Whole grain products [mandatory, standardized addition to enriched flour and flour products]

Copper | 0% | 16% | 5% | Shellfish, whole grains, beans, nuts, potatoes, organ meats (kidneys, liver)

Vitamin B12 | 0% | 7% | 4% | Animal products: fish, meat, poultry, eggs, milk

Riboflavin | 0% | 5% | 2% | Milk and dairy products, eggs, meat, green leafy vegetables, legumes [mandatory, standardized addition to enriched flour and flour products]

Niacin | 0.1% | 4% | 2% | Meat, fish, seeds and nuts, whole grains [mandatory, standardized addition to enriched flour and flour products]

Selenium | 0% | 2% | 1% | Found in different plant and animal foods; highest levels in seafood and organ meats (kidneys, liver)

Edited by pamojja, 29 July 2018 - 06:33 PM.

[gamesguru]

These figures mean deficient in the sense that you could use a little more, not that you are bordering on rickets or scurvy or the likes.  We would all be dead by these figures

[pamojja]

These figures mean deficient in the sense that you could use a little more, not that you are bordering on rickets or scurvy or the likes.  We would all be dead by these figures

 

The percentage of population which get short than the EAR (Estimated Average Requirement) from diet - to be precise. Enough not to die, but not enough to thrive. But maintaining a variety of symptoms.

[gamesguru]

The body is very resourceful and ingenuous in its conservation methods.  Caloric reduction is the general sense is unlikely to bring about an increase in nutritive intake, yet it generally affects a positive cue on lifespan.  I have been pseudo-fasting all week due to personal problems, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

 

Besides if you are deficient in vitamin A, by the looks of the chart, you are deficient in vitamin D, E, and likely magnesium as well.  How so, with a professedly perfect diet?  Better that you address the root of the issue than apply numerous band-aid fixes.

[pamojja]

The body is very resourceful and ingenuous in its conservation methods.  Caloric reduction is the general sense is unlikely to bring about an increase in nutritive intake, yet it generally affects a positive cue on lifespan.  I have been pseudo-fasting all week due to personal problems, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

 

Besides if you are deficient in vitamin A, by the looks of the chart, you are deficient in vitamin D, E, and likely magnesium as well.  How so, with a professedly perfect diet?  Better that you address the root of the issue than apply numerous band-aid fixes.

 

Can only speak for myself. Up to 40 years of age my body took care of virtually all diseases - even otherwise considered deathly, like for example a spinal cord infection at about age 30 - without much ado (except patience; the cord infection made me immobile for in total 8 months). After age 40 with a 80% stenosis at my abdominal aorta and a 60% walking-disability I realized it had changed in my case.

 

First I tried diet and lifestyle changes, but found definitely also needed supplementation with serious chronic old age diseases. And it worked for me, as detailed here.

 

With already apparent deficiencies in my experience it sometimes gets impossible to ever overcome it with diet alone. Tried it for the last 10 years by titrating up to 2.5 g of elemental Magnesium (beside the 0.6 g from diet) per day. Only since getting Mg-sulfate IVs since November last year I've become Mg-deficiency symptom free. At last.
 

 

How so, with a professedly perfect diet?

 

Some people stay healthy up into old age with a shitty diet. Some get sick earlier with a healthy diet. Therefore there must be different metabolism and bio-chemical individuality at play. Genetics, toxicity exposures, childhood diseases, etc.

Edited by pamojja, 29 July 2018 - 09:15 PM.

[gamesguru]

You may have a polymorphism on the magnesium transporter in your gut or a problem with the krebs cycle in your kidneys, it's not my place to give advice at such extremes.  Life isn't fair I know, but when I speak of diet and supplementation I speak of the average (somewhat) healthy person.

 

So the point remains that the average person looking to fill a mild vitamin deficiency does better to look at their diet than to rush into supplementing store-bought vitamins.  When you buy those, you start to cut yourself slack, it suddenly isn't important to get as many vitamins from your food because the vitamin bottle is the insurance marker you don't need while your diet slowly goes to sh*t

[pamojja]

When you buy those, you start to cut yourself slack, it suddenly isn't important to get as many vitamins from your food because the vitamin bottle is the insurance marker you don't need while your diet slowly goes to sh*t

 

Maybe healthy, that happens all the time. But actually in my case after a PAD came a COPD and T2D diagnosis. And in these 10 years my diet became better with each year. As did my supplementation.

 

You may have a polymorphism on the magnesium transporter in your gut or a problem with the krebs cycle in your kidneys, it's not my place to give advice at such extremes.  Life isn't fair I know, but when I speak of diet and supplementation I speak of the average (somewhat) healthy person.

 

Very unlikely. Because my severe and obvious deficiencies only started with chronic disease at later age. Of course, I really lived for the first 40 years of life, and that took it's toll. So still fair in a certain way.

 

 

Pneumonia at birth, fever seizures with 2, meningitis with 7, X-ray found tubercle with 20, Palmoplantar pustular psoriasis, only 12 teeth remaining at age 29 (due to tetracycline treatment as new-born), 7 malaria attacks (4 of which the at times deathly falciparum), amoebic hepatitis (enlarged liver), spondilodiscitis and rhinitis.
2 years before my PAD diagnosis a very stressful job (which I quit just before the diagnosis), schistosomiasis, cystitis, a myopericarditis, and finally my first root-canal (without giving permission!). With the chronic bronchitis I also got a diagnosis of COPD (symptom-free after the bronchitis) and T2D (controlled with diet, which I would rather classify as prediabetes).

 

Only regret is that I haven't started with supplementation much much earlier. Now that I see how much remission is possible with orthomolecular supplementation - how much easier would if have been as preventive? Stupid me.

[gamesguru]

Again, not here to explain fringe cases.  But how can you be sure your diet got better, these things are difficult to track.  And if the deficiencies only became obvious after age 40, how did you "live your whole life with them"?  And if you're on 4g of intravenous sulfate now, it's doubtful whether a few pinches of glycinate back in the day would have helped anything

[pamojja]

But how can you be sure your diet got better, these things are difficult to track.

 

First I tracked micro and macros and evolved my diet accordingly to get the most out of it the first 3 years. Then I eliminated or reduced more and more foods which caused high post-prandial glucose, after which one is left with very nutrient-dense foods.

 

Just came across a study which found the highest prediction on high diversity in one's microbiome would be in people eating at least 30 different plants during a week. And the least with less than 10. Counted last week as example:

 

sauerkraut, natto, cucumber, olives, carrot, bell pepper, red beet, tomato, potato starch, chickpeas, garlic, salads, broccoli, cauliflower, kohlrabi - 15
blueberries, avocado, red + black currant, vinegar - 5
coconut, macadamia, walnut, hazelnut, pekan nut, brazil nut, flax seed, pumpkin seed, sesame seed, black seed, chia seed, hemp seed, spirulina, chlorella, cocoa powder, coffee beans, tulsi tea - 17
(eggs, curd, aged cheese, ghee, honey, salmon, beef - 7)

 

So easily 30 different plants each week, and nothing industrially processed. My first ubiome test from last year confirms this study, since it showed a diversity superseded only by 7% of all tested. And of course I do regularly track many laboratory markers too, to see they are moving in the right direction.

 

But what has been most convincing were the remission of chronic diseases, where all MD been of the opinion that no reversal would be possible. And still would have me on pharmaceutical for the rest of my life, which I refused.

 

And if the deficiencies only became obvious after age 40, how did you "live your whole life with them"?

 

At young age due to much less metabolic derangement and functioning repair mechanism, subclinical deficiencies are rarely spotted. At older age they might become sever and obvious to the eye.

 

And if you're on 4g of intravenous sulfate now, it's doubtful whether a few pinches of glycinate back in the day would have helped anything

 

Sorry for expressing myself unclear here. I said I took up to 2.5 g/d of oral supplemented elemental Mg (all different kinds of), and got an other 0.6 g/d from diet, which only alleviated Mg-deficiency somewhat. The Mg-sulfate IV's give about 480 mg of elemental Mg per IV. Of which I had only 8 since November, but since the 5th IV painful-muscle cramps ceased completely.

 

The reason I think Mg supplementation could have helped (nowhere I mention glycinate) is that it's deficiency only started by correcting a vitamin D deficiency. With a very probable subclinical Mg deficiency and the higher throughput of Mg by higher Vitamin D intake I was pushed into such a severe Mg-deficiency very fast.
 

Again, not here to explain fringe cases.

 

How old are you? I ask because in my age-group being on no pharmaceutical and healthy seems rather the fringe case.

Edited by pamojja, 29 July 2018 - 11:05 PM.

[gamesguru]

i'm a 25 year old virgin.  What are you, some undisclosed age of at least 40?  And I'm sorry for your IV drips, but this attitude that you are eating everything perfectly is not helping.  You could be shooting your arrogance against the Jesus christ of nutritional science.  Now watch me ram pan toon this tongue around you, son, with words you would need a translator and chemistry degree just have a hope of pronouncing, ahh blah blah, cherry blossom in my pants so shivery. thats all she wrote

[pamojja]

You could be shooting your arrogance against the Jesus christ of nutritional science.

 
You must be completely out of your mind. All my attitude is portraying is my need to become completely healthy again. And patiently answering question for those in the need of the same.
 

What are you, some undisclosed age of at least 40?  And I'm sorry for your IV drips, but this attitude that you are eating everything perfectly is not helping.

 
My age was perfectly disclosed with the links I gave. But paying attention to anything than yourself doesn't seems your strength.
 

Now watch me ram pan toon this tongue around you, son, with words you would need a translator and chemistry degree just have a hope of pronouncing, ahh blah blah, cherry blossom in my pants so shivery. thats all she wrote

 
Huch.. you just wanted to show off without real knowledge?
 
 

, oftentimes our character is revealed by what annoys us the most

Edited by pamojja, 30 July 2018 - 09:28 AM.

[gamesguru]

what are you really trying to prove here, a point about vitamins, your own illness, maybe your innocence, or how good you look in a speedo?

i said it was an unusual case, you took offense to that.  i gave advice, you pushed back.  i apologized for not being able to help but that still wasn't enough for you.  where do you draw the line? what do you hope to accomplish this way

[pamojja]

i said it was an unusual case, you took offense to that.

 
Nowhere I took offense. Please quote. I just objected that in my age group chronic disease isn't unusual.
 

i gave advice, you pushed back.

 
Your foremost advise was to get nutrients from real foods. But in a further post you yourself lead this advise ad absurdism, by maintaining a healthy diet couldn't be ascertained. As someone following a healthy diet and having found more than enough ways to ascertain it indeed healthy, I had to refute your misguidance. Saying eat healthy, while at the same time thinking you're never sure, comes down to advising eat anything you randomly believe as healthy. On the opposite, not much randomness there.

 

Only someone himself not ascertaining in any way what he eats himself as healthy, can give such self-contradictory advise.
 

i apologized for not being able to help but that still wasn't enough for you. where do you draw the line? what do you hope to accomplish this way

 
Where I ask you for help? Where you apologized? Please quote.
 
Rather you disadvised to supplement Retinol in favor of food-borne vitamin A to someone who found relieve from the former. That's were I drew the line. And there gave the counter perspective that supplementation of Retinol might indeed give benefits in diseases, where from foods alone might not be strong enough. Clearly I only try to accomplish that OP heard different perspectives also out of experiences, other then your beliefs without personal experience. So he can make an informed decision himself.
 

what are you really trying to prove here, a point about vitamins, your own illness, maybe your innocence, or how good you look in a speedo?

 

I think to anyone not blinded by seeing a personal contest in my posts, the intent of my words do clearly speak for them-self.

 

 

Now watch me ram pan toon this tongue around you, son, with words you would need a translator and chemistry degree just have a hope of pronouncing, ahh blah blah, cherry blossom in my pants so shivery. thats all she wrote

 

While yours certainly portray whats intended by you.

 

You countered almost every of my counterarguments as silly ad-hominems about your projected intentions. How silly can it get?

Edited by pamojja, 30 July 2018 - 01:05 PM.

[Ames]

This post should be read in conjuction with post #7 in this thread, which I wrote in 2016.

 

I just ran a trial with Vitamin D at  individual 5,000 iu doses on each of two consecutive days. Which I had never before done. 

 

It has been about two weeks since the last dose. I still feel the effects. 

 

I noticed three things:

 

1. An immediate increase in sleepiness (on the same day as the first dose). I was prior able to stay up to 2 or 3 in the morning without a problem. Now I have a real issue making to 11pm, and have been nodding off in the afternoon if I sit still for too long.

 

2. A lasting decrease in sleep quality. My sleep has been consistently shallow, with no trend back toward where it was. If I want normal sleep, I have to take sleep aids, which used to work too well (overly sedated sleep), now just to realize what I consider to be normal sleep.

 

3. A noticeale decrease in sugar / carbohydrate sensitivity. I have to eat more to feel as satisfied / energized by carbohydrates. I've gained weight since the trial, after being on a six month weight loss trend (losing 60 lbs in total). 

 

My trial conclusion is that Vitamin D feels like a hormone, which works against insulin sensitivity at the 5,000 iu per day dose.

 

However, I admit that this effect could vary depending on a person's specific body composiition or other health factors.

 

I purchased calves liverwurst from the local butcher in an effort to counter-act these side effects with animal-product vitamin A. I'll consume it over a few days and give it that time to work. If it doesn't, I'll resort to taking retinyl palmitate. 

Edited by golgi1, 21 February 2020 - 05:12 PM.

[experimenting]

This post should be read in conjuction with post #7 in this thread, which I wrote in 2016.

I just ran a trial with Vitamin D at individual 5,000 iu doses on each of two consecutive days. Which I had never before done.

It has been about two weeks since the last dose. I still feel the effects.

I noticed three things:

1. An immediate increase in sleepiness (on the same day as the first dose). I was prior able to stay up to 2 or 3 in the morning without a problem. Now I have a real issue making to 11pm, and have been nodding off in the afternoon if I sit still for too long.

2. A lasting decrease in sleep quality. My sleep has been consistently shallow, with no trend back toward where it was. If I want normal sleep, I have to take sleep aids, which used to work too well (overly sedated sleep), now just to realize what I consider to be normal sleep.

3. A noticeale decrease in sugar / carbohydrate sensitivity. I have to eat more to feel as satisfied / energized by carbohydrates. I've gained weight since the trial, after being on a six month weight loss trend (losing 60 lbs in total).

My trial conclusion is that Vitamin D feels like a hormone, which works against insulin sensitivity at the 5,000 iu per day dose.

However, I admit that this effect could vary depending on a person's specific body composiition or other health factors.

I purchased calves liverwurst from the local butcher in an effort to counter-act these side effects with animal-product vitamin A. I'll consume it over a few days and give it that time to work. If it doesn't, I'll resort to taking retinyl palmitate.

FWIW, to offer a personal experience contrary to pamojja’s:

Vitamin D was life changing for me, helped my mood, body comp, chronic pain so much, etc. I do agree it may hinder sleep quality or perhaps amount but for me, I actually welcomed this a bit, since otherwise I could just sleep all day.

Be careful to take vitamin K, that sleepiness you’re mentioning could well be some issue with calcium regulation. I noticed that I cannot tolerate >2k iu D3 unless I take the LEF K mix alongside; and I only feel “good” in 5k iu or more so it’s a must for me.

As for vitamin A-some others have noted as well-I feel horrible at any dose. It’s good for an immediate increase in weird emotional symptoms for me, and some bone pain/joint clicking. This is because preformed Vitamin A is unregulated by the body, it just goes straight into the bloodstream and starts to do its thing. I do much better on beta carotene, whose conversion is limited.