612 replies to this topic

[normalizing]

 

 

also, doesnt it matter that lion mane naturally grows on (living) wood? im sure growing it on anything else will absolutely effect its quality!
 

 

I was thinking that too.

Lion's Mane is normally found growing out of hard wood trees (oaks and walnut etc)

 

Paul Stammets appears to be growing his on brown rice.

Mushroom Matrix are growing theirs on organic oats.

 

I would have imagined that yes, the growing medium would affect the final product.

(it does with other plants)

 

However, the part of the mushroom we're interested in is the mycelium (the roots)

which.... would be difficult to dig out of a rotting log.

 

I guess we have no option but to accept 'artificially' farmed Lion's Mane.

I simply wouldn't want to eat the mycelium if it had been grown in a rotting tree.

 

Playground.

 

 

 

i was reading how cordyceps being domesticated completely affected its quality. a person living in an area which it was actually harvested in the wild claimed how superior it was compared to supplements he took. it just makes sense lions mane is just not the same cultivated.

 

 

 

Didn't we have this discussion about the potential of increase cancer risk from NGF?  I haven't gone through the whole thread, so apologies if I am repeating useless information.

 

Lions mane works. I am pretty sure of it. At large doses though like about 1 gram and above. I used it with Noopept, they work with each other quite well. I don't use it much anymore since my brain seems to have recovered.

 

NGF application looks likely to increase autistic traits both beneficial and non beneficial, provided the same thing happens with an adult brain as it does to a developing mind. It also seems to have much broader effects than BDNF, so if NGF why not BDNF?

 

Peptides also have a storage problem, they tend to be not very heat stable in liquid formulations. They are also prone to breaking upon vigorous shaking.

 

http://www.abcam.com...de-ab66458.html

 

"Shipped at 4°C. Upon delivery aliquot and store at -20°C or -80°C. Avoid repeated freeze / thaw cycles."

 

A mimetic peptide is likely to just be as fragile as the real thing.

 

"brain seems to have recovered"? Can you please provide a summary of what your problem was and how you concluded that you recovered from it using lion's mane and noopept?

 

And yes, I think lion's mane works, but only if we keep in mind what Playground mentioned, which is that all parts of the mushroom are not created equal with respect to NGF upregulation. Personally, I would take full spectrum because it has some anticacner and antiulcer benefits as well, which might guard against undesired effects of enhanced NGF secretion in the gut (where we don't want it). The lion's mane threads here on Longecity are full this discussion of mycellium vs. fruiting body, and their differing mental effects. BTW mycellium isn't always easy to obtain, particularly if the mushrooms are grown on wooden stumps as opposed to plastic "grow bags". I think Stamets and Aloha are both using the latter. Although only Aloha offers bulk powder on request.

 

Yeah, I discussed the wrole thermal instability issue a few pages ago. My tentative conclusion is that it only applies if we demand 98% purity for a long period of time. I'm assuming that I'll lose half of the NGF by keeping it in the fridge in solution for a month while it's being nasally insufflated. But that's yet another reason to look for cheaper alternatives like lion's mane.

 

And I agree with Playground that while this isn't a lion's mane thread, it is about raising NGF in the brain, by whatever crazy means necessary, for example, your combination with noopept.

 

 

Oh its well documented on these forums. I had an incident of heavy metal poisoning from China which left me in a a hospital for over a week and suffered cognitive impairment since then. Noopept and Lions Manes gave me pretty instant relief. I don't remember Lions Mane to be cheap though...it was rather expensive in large doses which is one of the reasons I only use Noopept now.

 

Edit: I remember reading somewhere where its effective at 3grams, I find it effective from 1 gram on. I don't remember the brand it was water extracted, it was definetely the real thing. each capsule came in 300mg and I would do 3 capsules which would be 900mg about a gram.

 

I think it was more effective when the cognitive impairment is obvious, whether it would be of benefit to anyone operating at optimal neurological ability - I would be more unsure about that one.

 

 

did you ingest some of those chinese herbs or what really happen to get that poisoning??
 

[playground]

Can anyone find the full text of this paper,  please ?

 

Dictyophorines A and B, two stimulators of NGF-synthesis from the mushroom Dictyophora indusiata.

Kawagishi H, Ishiyama D, Mori H, Sakamoto H, Ishiguro Y, Furukawa S, Li J

Department of Applied Biological Chemistry, Shizuoka University, Japan.

Phytochemistry [1997, 45(6):1203-1205]

 

I would be very grateful.

 

Playground.

 

[Major Legend]

 

 

 

i was reading how cordyceps being domesticated completely affected its quality. a person living in an area which it was actually harvested in the wild claimed how superior it was compared to supplements he took. it just makes sense lions mane is just not the same cultivated.

 

 

did you ingest some of those chinese herbs or what really happen to get that poisoning??
 

 

 

It was chinese herbs for my eczema prepared by a Chinese Hospital. I believe the solution was hot extracted from herbs, it was very high tech, very impressive until I noticed myself slurring and being unable to drive. One of the main ingredients I believe was Ma Huang which is Ephedrine . I had no idea what was in it before, I had only drunk it because I was recommended by somebody else and Ive had many previous trials with chinese medicine, none of which had any notable effects or side effects. Anyways I am glad to report that I feel fine now and no permanent damage seems to be done, other than the loss of some visualisation ability which can be attributed to age maybe, the first few months were an incredible struggle. I could barely walk (more like a stumble), and everything just overwhelmed me causing me a kind of anxiety i've never experience before.
 

[normalizing]

 

Can anyone find the full text of this paper,  please ?

 

Dictyophorines A and B, two stimulators of NGF-synthesis from the mushroom Dictyophora indusiata.

Kawagishi H, Ishiyama D, Mori H, Sakamoto H, Ishiguro Y, Furukawa S, Li J

Department of Applied Biological Chemistry, Shizuoka University, Japan.

Phytochemistry [1997, 45(6):1203-1205]

 

I would be very grateful.

 

Playground.

 

 

this seemed more interesting in my opinion;

According to a 2001 publication in the International Journal of Medicinal Mushrooms, the smell of the fresh fungus can trigger spontaneous orgasms in human females. In the trial involving 16 women, 6 had orgasms while smelling the fruit body, and the other ten, who received smaller doses, experienced physiological changes such as increased heart rate. All of the 20 men tested considered the smell disgusting. According to the authors, the results suggest that the hormone-like compounds present in the volatile portion of the gleba may have some similarity to human neurotransmitters released in females during sexual activity. The study used the species found in Hawaii, not the edible variety cultivated in China.

[playground]

 

 

Can anyone find the full text of this paper,  please ?

 

Dictyophorines A and B, two stimulators of NGF-synthesis from the mushroom Dictyophora indusiata.

Kawagishi H, Ishiyama D, Mori H, Sakamoto H, Ishiguro Y, Furukawa S, Li J

Department of Applied Biological Chemistry, Shizuoka University, Japan.

Phytochemistry [1997, 45(6):1203-1205]

 

I would be very grateful.

 

Playground.

 

 

this seemed more interesting in my opinion;

According to a 2001 publication in the International Journal of Medicinal Mushrooms, the smell of the fresh fungus can trigger spontaneous orgasms in human females. In the trial involving 16 women, 6 had orgasms while smelling the fruit body, and the other ten, who received smaller doses, experienced physiological changes such as increased heart rate. All of the 20 men tested considered the smell disgusting. According to the authors, the results suggest that the hormone-like compounds present in the volatile portion of the gleba may have some similarity to human neurotransmitters released in females during sexual activity. The study used the species found in Hawaii, not the edible variety cultivated in China.

 

 

That's right.... so if anyone can find the full text of this article on Dictyophora indusiata we'd all be very grateful :-)

 

Playground

 

[dz93]

Growing plants indoors can produce higher quality, higher nutrient plants. Even under artificial lighting and everything. I don't see how growing mushrooms artificially would cause it to be less superior than ones naturally grown outdoors. As long as you give the mushroom everything it needs and replicate its outdoor environment as best as possible you should be able to get high quality mushrooms.

The trick is there is very little known about the nutrient requirements for mushrooms. I've tried and I've only found some basics. I suppose you would want to find out what all nutrients the mushroom would be able to get from a tree and then supplement the mushroom with those nutrients. Its all about replicating the natural environment as much as possible.

However, I doubt most of us will be able to grow enough mushrooms to supplement with everyday. Idk how much you get from an extract of one mushroom but I would imagine not very much.

I'll do some more research into the matter to see what I can come up with. I don't think growing lions mane will be viable for most of us though. So we should look into other things.

[playground]

Mushroom Matrix do _not_ sell mycelium Lion's Mane.

They sell 'full spectrum' ... their website misrepresents their product.

 

Here is an email i received from them earlier (see below)

 

I've also emailed Fungi Perfecti asking them to confirm the content

of their Lion's Mane product.

 

I'll update this thread in due course

 

Playground

-------------

 

 

Dear [....playgroung....]

 

....

 

We produce un-extracted mycelial biomass that is dehydrated at low temperatures and milled into a fine powder.  Our Lion' Mane biomass contains the mycelia, primordia, fruit bodies (the spore-producing, above-ground stage of the mushroom), extra-cellular compounds (enzymes and secondary metabolites produced by the mycelia) and remnants of the substrate (organic oats) that the mushroom culture was grown on.  The powder is a complex nutritional matrix containing the complete life cycle of the mushroom with all the nutritional and bioactive compounds intact.  We do not encapsulate the powders, but rather package them as powders that can be taken by the customers according to their needs and tastes.   Encapsulation adds a lot to the cost of a product so selling as a powder enables to sell at lower costs per dose than is possible for encapsulated products.

 

Thanks!

Tara FarrarManager -  Logistics and Support Services

Mushroom Matrix
5931 Priestly Dr. Suite 101

Carlsbad, CA 92008
Office: 866-740-6874
Fax: 760-798-8025
Cell: 760-716-8334

 

 

 

[resveratrol_guy]

 

 

 

Oh its well documented on these forums. I had an incident of heavy metal poisoning from China which left me in a a hospital for over a week and suffered cognitive impairment since then. Noopept and Lions Manes gave me pretty instant relief. I don't remember Lions Mane to be cheap though...it was rather expensive in large doses which is one of the reasons I only use Noopept now.

 

Edit: I remember reading somewhere where its effective at 3grams, I find it effective from 1 gram on. I don't remember the brand it was water extracted, it was definetely the real thing. each capsule came in 300mg and I would do 3 capsules which would be 900mg about a gram.

 

I think it was more effective when the cognitive impairment is obvious, whether it would be of benefit to anyone operating at optimal neurological ability - I would be more unsure about that one.

 

 

Thanks for the details. So you quit lion's mane just because of the expense? Or were you itching too much like other users? Anything else? I suspect that your reaction to lion's mane would be mirrored by NGF.

 

If the Japanese study is representative of your case, then I would not expect the benefits to last more than a month before reverting to baseline. Although in your case, if you're younger and healthier, than it's possible that the brain would get its act together and return to normal after compensating for whatever neurons you might have lost.

 

I'm sure that it has occurred to you to test for heavy metal load (which is notoriously tricky due to deep stores in the fat) and do chelation (watch out for hypocalcemia). OTOH if it was some other sort of poisoning, then chelation might not help.

 

And to all, thanks for the informative posts. Keep it up. We need to make this NGF trial happen, whether via direct or indirect means. For my part, Longvida has really started grinding down my energy level. I'm finding it difficult to get much done, on account of tiredness. But I'm determined to finish the megadosing course. So I apologise for being less responsive than usual in the interim.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 25 June 2015 - 03:06 AM.

[ceridwen]

I hate to say this but I think that tiredness might be a warning sign. When humans are very tired IQ drops by about 10 points. I think that tired feeling might be a reflection of being mentally slowed down and physically too of course. My husband always gets tired when he is running low of B12 and I am worried about mega dosing curcumin and cytotoxicity. Please be careful.

[normalizing]

 

 

 

 

Oh its well documented on these forums. I had an incident of heavy metal poisoning from China which left me in a a hospital for over a week and suffered cognitive impairment since then. Noopept and Lions Manes gave me pretty instant relief. I don't remember Lions Mane to be cheap though...it was rather expensive in large doses which is one of the reasons I only use Noopept now.

 

Edit: I remember reading somewhere where its effective at 3grams, I find it effective from 1 gram on. I don't remember the brand it was water extracted, it was definetely the real thing. each capsule came in 300mg and I would do 3 capsules which would be 900mg about a gram.

 

I think it was more effective when the cognitive impairment is obvious, whether it would be of benefit to anyone operating at optimal neurological ability - I would be more unsure about that one.

 

 

Thanks for the details. So you quit lion's mane just because of the expense? Or were you itching too much like other users? Anything else? I suspect that your reaction to lion's mane would be mirrored by NGF.

 

If the Japanese study is representative of your case, then I would not expect the benefits to last more than a month before reverting to baseline. Although in your case, if you're younger and healthier, than it's possible that the brain would get its act together and return to normal after compensating for whatever neurons you might have lost.

 

I'm sure that it has occurred to you to test for heavy metal load (which is notoriously tricky due to deep stores in the fat) and do chelation (watch out for hypocalcemia). OTOH if it was some other sort of poisoning, then chelation might not help.

 

And to all, thanks for the informative posts. Keep it up. We need to make this NGF trial happen, whether via direct or indirect means. For my part, Longvida has really started grinding down my energy level. I'm finding it difficult to get much done, on account of tiredness. But I'm determined to finish the megadosing course. So I apologise for being less responsive than usual in the interim.

 

 

 

how the fuck is curcumin giving you lethargy? i havent read any such side effect from curcumin ever. of course, it might be associated with testosterone levels since i read curcumine affects those tho not proven by me so far. in any case, wtf man, curcumin being associated with lethargy is not good at all. way way too overhyped that stuff it seems. perhaps you take so many supplements its some kind of a bad combo that causes this or some other specific supplement???

 

[chrisp2]

this seemed more interesting in my opinion;

According to a 2001 publication in the International Journal of Medicinal Mushrooms, the smell of the fresh fungus can trigger spontaneous orgasms in human females. In the trial involving 16 women, 6 had orgasms while smelling the fruit body, and the other ten, who received smaller doses, experienced physiological changes such as increased heart rate. All of the 20 men tested considered the smell disgusting. According to the authors, the results suggest that the hormone-like compounds present in the volatile portion of the gleba may have some similarity to human neurotransmitters released in females during sexual activity. The study used the species found in Hawaii, not the edible variety cultivated in China.

 

 

Exactly which mushroom?

 

I want to grow them in my office
 

[playground]

I have created a new thread about Alzheimer's and Chlamydia Pneumoniae.

This thread is asserting that AD is caused by a bacterial infection.

(Note: the evidence for this is persuasive)

 

Interested readers will find it here:

http://www.longecity...ae-cp/?p=734003

 

playground.

[resveratrol_guy]

 

 

 

 

 

Oh its well documented on these forums. I had an incident of heavy metal poisoning from China which left me in a a hospital for over a week and suffered cognitive impairment since then. Noopept and Lions Manes gave me pretty instant relief. I don't remember Lions Mane to be cheap though...it was rather expensive in large doses which is one of the reasons I only use Noopept now.

 

Edit: I remember reading somewhere where its effective at 3grams, I find it effective from 1 gram on. I don't remember the brand it was water extracted, it was definetely the real thing. each capsule came in 300mg and I would do 3 capsules which would be 900mg about a gram.

 

I think it was more effective when the cognitive impairment is obvious, whether it would be of benefit to anyone operating at optimal neurological ability - I would be more unsure about that one.

 

 

Thanks for the details. So you quit lion's mane just because of the expense? Or were you itching too much like other users? Anything else? I suspect that your reaction to lion's mane would be mirrored by NGF.

 

If the Japanese study is representative of your case, then I would not expect the benefits to last more than a month before reverting to baseline. Although in your case, if you're younger and healthier, than it's possible that the brain would get its act together and return to normal after compensating for whatever neurons you might have lost.

 

I'm sure that it has occurred to you to test for heavy metal load (which is notoriously tricky due to deep stores in the fat) and do chelation (watch out for hypocalcemia). OTOH if it was some other sort of poisoning, then chelation might not help.

 

And to all, thanks for the informative posts. Keep it up. We need to make this NGF trial happen, whether via direct or indirect means. For my part, Longvida has really started grinding down my energy level. I'm finding it difficult to get much done, on account of tiredness. But I'm determined to finish the megadosing course. So I apologise for being less responsive than usual in the interim.

 

 

 

how the fuck is curcumin giving you lethargy? i havent read any such side effect from curcumin ever. of course, it might be associated with testosterone levels since i read curcumine affects those tho not proven by me so far. in any case, wtf man, curcumin being associated with lethargy is not good at all. way way too overhyped that stuff it seems. perhaps you take so many supplements its some kind of a bad combo that causes this or some other specific supplement???
 

 

At 20 grams/day for almost 3 weeks, I'm probably well into uncharted territory for human pharmacokinetics. My suspicion is that the proven SSRI effects of curcumin are kicking in hard. As of my last blood tests a couple months back, testosterone was above normal, although it may be lower now, considering that curcumin seems to act in ways which counteract testosterone.

 

I don't think it's an interaction with anything else I'm taking.

 

And I don't think it's overhyped. It's just that you need to be willing to suffer side effects like this in order to realize the benefits demonstrated in rodent studies, wherein they jacked plasma concentration to the moon. And who cares about a month of fatigue if it could eliminate half my brain plaque. At least, that's my theory. We'll see how my Lumosity performance ends up after all this.

[resveratrol_guy]

I hate to say this but I think that tiredness might be a warning sign. When humans are very tired IQ drops by about 10 points. I think that tired feeling might be a reflection of being mentally slowed down and physically too of course. My husband always gets tired when he is running low of B12 and I am worried about mega dosing curcumin and cytotoxicity. Please be careful.

 

I don't think I'm reaching neurotoxic levels of curcumin. I'm most likely south of 500 nM/L, based on my calculations and the available human data. Nor am I concerned about tiredness-induced temporary dementia. My goal is to finish this microtrial and at least be confident that I actually tried to reverse plaque deposition, instead of spending the rest of my life wondering what more I could have done, had I the courage to do so.

 

It will be quite a relief to get on with NGF or lion's mane or whatever.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 26 June 2015 - 01:24 AM.

[normalizing]

so curcumin gives you an actual SSRI effects at 20 grams? it still, too much. not sure how worth is it. i tried it before for depression didnt do shit. i did go at least 5-6 grams tho. which i thought was still kind of high for a supplement that has standardized and potent extract.

[resveratrol_guy]

so curcumin gives you an actual SSRI effects at 20 grams? it still, too much. not sure how worth is it. i tried it before for depression didnt do shit. i did go at least 5-6 grams tho. which i thought was still kind of high for a supplement that has standardized and potent extract.

 

Well in all honesty, it's impossible to talk about "curcumin" because the bioavailability is so utterly variable depending on the delivery mechanism. I recall that Longvida raises seratonin starting at 10 mg/kg and dopamine at 80 mg/kg in rodents, but for the life of me, I've been unable to find the study where I read that. At 20 grams, I'm well over 200 mg/kg, so yes, I would expect the SSRI effect to have kicked in. I recommend posting to the Longvida thread if you want other opinions on this. Again, it really depends on the vehicle more than anything else.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 27 June 2015 - 03:26 AM.

[normalizing]

so i still dont understand how is the turmeric as spice considered good for you if science is working real hard to develop methods to make it more potent and have actual bioavailibility? so basically turmeric by itself is little different than junk food (not nutricious nor healthy) except the fact it has no negative impact on health.

Edited by normalizing, 27 June 2015 - 09:00 AM.

[playground]

so i still dont understand how is the turmeric as spice considered good for you if science is working real hard to develop methods to make it more potent and have actual bioavailibility? so basically turmeric by itself is little different than junk food (not nutricious nor healthy) except the fact it has no negative impact on health.

 

I agree, this is patently contradictory to say on the one hand:

     turmeric is good for your health because it's anti-microbial, anti-cancer, anti-alzheimer's etc

 

and on the other hand to say:

     turmeric is ineffective in it's natural form, you have to buy our product to see any benefits from turmeric.

 

It's clearly marketing lies.

 

Turmeric _is_ good for you in both it's raw root and powdered forms.

 

Fact:  Populations in Asia where turmeric is a regular part of the diet experience dramatically

lower levels of Alzheimer's, diabetes, prostrate cancer, colon cancer...etc.

 

Curcurmin is poorly soluble in water. 

This is the basis of the 'bio-availability' argument.

 

But Curcurmin is only one ingredient in turmeric, there are hundreds of compounds in turmeric.

Some are water soluable, some are not.

 

If you want to maximise the bio-availability of  turmeric,

add it to soups and stews and add a few tablespoons of fats/oils to the stew... voila !

 

There's also some suggestion that whole turmeric (powder or root) is better for you

than the curcurmin fraction commonly sold as supplements. 

 

http://nutritionfact...-with-turmeric/

 

Of-course, this flies in the face of the marketting propaganda put out by the curcurmin

vendors.

 

Playground.

[playground]

a short video on the bio-availability of turmeric.

 

http://nutritionfact...ity-of-curcumin

[playground]

maybe we should consider GCSF.

 

https://en.wikipedia...mulating_factor

 

RG is knowledgeable in this area.

 

 

playground.

[resveratrol_guy]

maybe we should consider GCSF.

 

https://en.wikipedia...mulating_factor

 

RG is knowledgeable in this area.

 

 

playground.

 

GCSF's effects are most noticeable for about a week, wherein it provides for stable mood, improved visual perception, less tinnitus, and better balance. (This is based on my own experience and my observations of Sally and Simon as discussed in my thread.) And at least one study shows that it has a very long term mental improvement effect as well, which maximizes in about a year. (This corresponds roughly to the same slow ramp which occurs in vascular dementia improvement due to marrow mining followed by systemic reinjection, suggesting that GCSF's brain benefits are in fact due to CD34+ moblization.) That said, it carries a theoretical leukemia risk, and induces replication stress to your mesenchymal stem cells. But personally, if I had some sort of cerebrovascular hemorrage, I would use it immediately.

 

It supports NGF because it improves vascular health, ensuring that we don't simply destroy brand new neurons with the buildup of waste due to a faulty BBB.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 28 June 2015 - 04:19 AM.

[normalizing]

what to take for GCSF increase?

[playground]

last time, for NGF,  we spent a lot of time finding out about NGF

.... only to discover later,  ... that we couldn't buy it.

 

My question is:  can we easily buy it ?

specifically,  where can we buy filgrastim  and/or  PEG-filgrastim  and/or lenograstim ?

 

 

Here's what the wikpedia page says about the different forms of GCSF

 

The recombinant human G-CSF synthesised in an E. coli expression system is called filgrastim.

The structure of filgrastim differs slightly from the structure of the natural glycoprotein.

Most published studies have used filgrastim. Filgrastim (Neupogen) and PEG-filgrastim (Neulasta)

are two commercially-available forms of rhG-CSF (recombinant human G-CSF).

The PEG (polyethylene glycol) form has a much longer half-life, reducing the necessity of daily injections.

 

Another form of recombinant human G-CSF called lenograstim is synthesised in

Chinese Hamster Ovary cells (CHO cells). As this is a mammalian cell expression system,

lenograstim is indistinguishable from the 174-amino acid natural human G-CSF.

No clinical or therapeutic consequences of the differences between filgrastim and lenograstim

have yet been identified, but there are no formal comparative studies.

source: https://en.wikipedia...mulating_factor

 

 

playground

[resveratrol_guy]

Yes, you can get GCSF and analogs relatively easily in the US, given a prescription which is not particularly hard to get. (But obviously you can't just go to your doctor complaining of a stomach ache and expect to walk out with one. It has to be an ailment which justifies stem cell mobilization, for example, some evidence of vascular damage in a vital organ. Sally, Simon, and I all have MRI evidence of small strokes to varying extents, which is why it was deemed appropriate for us.) BTW it requires refrigeration, which is one reason for its high price. But nothing that a household fridge set to max cold could not provide, for several months if need be.

 

Brand names: Emgrast, Filatil, Filgen, Fillif, Frastim, Grafeel, Granix, Granocyte, Grastim, Imupeg, Itact, Neukine, Neulasta, Neumax, Neupogen, Nfil, Nufil-Safe, Pegex, Pegstim, Religrast, Xphil, Zarzio

 

I've only used Neupogen, personally. Sally first took Filatil (Mexican) and had considerable positive effects, then tried Neupogen later, but noticed nothing much by way of further benefit. I suspect that you can buy Filatil at a Mexican pharmacy, but I can't confirm that.

 

@normalizing: I'm not sure what one could take in order to upregulate endogenous GCSF; instead, we can just inject it directly.

 

As I've discussed extensively in my thread, I think it works best for mental enhancement when taken while suffering from a headache (of an inflammatory nature, as opposed to a sinus one). But practically speaking, there are obvious hazards involved in attempting to create such a headache, and in principle one could go too far and end up with morbid brain swelling. GCSF certainly is not a casual nootropic! And it won't help you if your cerebrovasculature is healthy and intact, even if you suffer from other brain problems. Again, Sally, Simon, and I all had MRI confirmation of modest white matter lesions, so I suppose that the benefits are less surprising in our cases. Simon's case was particularly interesting. At first, he perceived some benefits to his balance (he has multiple small strokes impacting this function), but then continued to experience falls after a week or so. However, in the past 3 months, his balance has markedly improved, which is at least consistent with GCSF's mysteriously protracted period of action, long after cessation, as linked in my post above.

 

I think any further discussion of GCSF warrants its own thread, before the mods come through here and shred this thread to pieces.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 29 June 2015 - 01:46 AM.

[normalizing]

if you have to inject that shit, then fuck it

[playground]

Yes, you can get GCSF and analogs relatively easily in the US, given a prescription which is not particularly hard to get. (But obviously you can't just go to your doctor complaining of a stomach ache and expect to walk out with one. It has to be an ailment which justifies stem cell mobilization, for example, some evidence of vascular damage in a vital organ. Sally, Simon, and I all have MRI evidence of small strokes to varying extents, which is why it was deemed appropriate for us.) BTW it requires refrigeration, which is one reason for its high price. But nothing that a household fridge set to max cold could not provide, for several months if need be.

 

Brand names: Emgrast, Filatil, Filgen, Fillif, Frastim, Grafeel, Granix, Granocyte, Grastim, Imupeg, Itact, Neukine, Neulasta, Neumax, Neupogen, Nfil, Nufil-Safe, Pegex, Pegstim, Religrast, Xphil, Zarzio

 

I've only used Neupogen, personally. Sally first took Filatil (Mexican) and had considerable positive effects, then tried Neupogen later, but noticed nothing much by way of further benefit. I suspect that you can buy Filatil at a Mexican pharmacy, but I can't confirm that.

 

@normalizing: I'm not sure what one could take in order to upregulate endogenous GCSF; instead, we can just inject it directly.

 

As I've discussed extensively in my thread, I think it works best for mental enhancement when taken while suffering from a headache (of an inflammatory nature, as opposed to a sinus one). But practically speaking, there are obvious hazards involved in attempting to create such a headache, and in principle one could go too far and end up with morbid brain swelling. GCSF certainly is not a casual nootropic! And it won't help you if your cerebrovasculature is healthy and intact, even if you suffer from other brain problems. Again, Sally, Simon, and I all had MRI confirmation of modest white matter lesions, so I suppose that the benefits are less surprising in our cases. Simon's case was particularly interesting. At first, he perceived some benefits to his balance (he has multiple small strokes impacting this function), but then continued to experience falls after a week or so. However, in the past 3 months, his balance has markedly improved, which is at least consistent with GCSF's mysteriously protracted period of action, long after cessation, as linked in my post above.

 

I think any further discussion of GCSF warrants its own thread, before the mods come through here and shred this thread to pieces.

 

Hi RG,  good post.

 

how many times have you taken this stuff ?

 

Do these drugs come as powders ... (that need to be reconstituted) ?

I'm thinking about the refrigeration requirement ...  and the possibility shipping this/these from Asia or America into Europe.

 

And how do you take it ? 

Is it one shot or multiple shots ?

If it's multiple shots, how many multiple shots ?

Daily injections ?

Injection into the muscle or just under the skin ?

 

For how many weeks, or months, after the last injection.... does it continue to work ?

 

Playground.
 

[resveratrol_guy]

 

Yes, you can get GCSF and analogs relatively easily in the US, given a prescription which is not particularly hard to get. (But obviously you can't just go to your doctor complaining of a stomach ache and expect to walk out with one. It has to be an ailment which justifies stem cell mobilization, for example, some evidence of vascular damage in a vital organ. Sally, Simon, and I all have MRI evidence of small strokes to varying extents, which is why it was deemed appropriate for us.) BTW it requires refrigeration, which is one reason for its high price. But nothing that a household fridge set to max cold could not provide, for several months if need be.

 

Brand names: Emgrast, Filatil, Filgen, Fillif, Frastim, Grafeel, Granix, Granocyte, Grastim, Imupeg, Itact, Neukine, Neulasta, Neumax, Neupogen, Nfil, Nufil-Safe, Pegex, Pegstim, Religrast, Xphil, Zarzio

 

I've only used Neupogen, personally. Sally first took Filatil (Mexican) and had considerable positive effects, then tried Neupogen later, but noticed nothing much by way of further benefit. I suspect that you can buy Filatil at a Mexican pharmacy, but I can't confirm that.

 

@normalizing: I'm not sure what one could take in order to upregulate endogenous GCSF; instead, we can just inject it directly.

 

As I've discussed extensively in my thread, I think it works best for mental enhancement when taken while suffering from a headache (of an inflammatory nature, as opposed to a sinus one). But practically speaking, there are obvious hazards involved in attempting to create such a headache, and in principle one could go too far and end up with morbid brain swelling. GCSF certainly is not a casual nootropic! And it won't help you if your cerebrovasculature is healthy and intact, even if you suffer from other brain problems. Again, Sally, Simon, and I all had MRI confirmation of modest white matter lesions, so I suppose that the benefits are less surprising in our cases. Simon's case was particularly interesting. At first, he perceived some benefits to his balance (he has multiple small strokes impacting this function), but then continued to experience falls after a week or so. However, in the past 3 months, his balance has markedly improved, which is at least consistent with GCSF's mysteriously protracted period of action, long after cessation, as linked in my post above.

 

I think any further discussion of GCSF warrants its own thread, before the mods come through here and shred this thread to pieces.

 

Hi RG,  good post.

 

how many times have you taken this stuff ?

 

Do these drugs come as powders ... (that need to be reconstituted) ?

I'm thinking about the refrigeration requirement ...  and the possibility shipping this/these from Asia or America into Europe.

 

And how do you take it ? 

Is it one shot or multiple shots ?

If it's multiple shots, how many multiple shots ?

Daily injections ?

Injection into the muscle or just under the skin ?

 

For how many weeks, or months, after the last injection.... does it continue to work ?

 

Playground.
 

 

 

I've taken more than the equivalent of 10 300 ug doses. They come in solution, as injectable vials. So you need to draw it into a syringe. Injection is generally subcutaneous (arm or abdomen) but sometimes intramusclar. Refrigeration is accomplished by shipping in a thermally controlled styrofoam box. Generally, this is sent to the pharmacy, but it can be sent directly to an individual as well. I don't know how much interference would occur when shipping to Europe. Then again, it should be available in various stem cell therapy clinics over there. You might need to go to a dodgy one to acquire it, but at least, it should be available.

 

Generally, 300 ug is considered as a single injectable dose, . But based on my own experience and research, I would say that a quarter as much would be therapeutic. A key consideration is the observation that the effects of mesenchymal stem cell therapy are not dose-dependent, beyond a particular threshold. In this way, they actually emulate NGF. This is perhaps because such stem cells act more as signalling vehicles than actual repair units. I would say that I can tell the difference between a quarter vial and a third, within a matter of hours, but not between a whole vial and a vial and a half. On account of the very protracted action of this drug, however, it's very difficult to optimize the dose. As to number of doses, one might suffice in some cases, and I think more than 10 spread over as many days would be more risk than reward. Everyone is different, but my rough understanding is that 5 over 5 days is about right.

 

As linked in the study above, it seems to work over a number of months, perhaps up to a year. This is despite the fact that CD34+ populations revert to normal within a week or so. It seems that they kick off repair processes which then take on a life of their own, having no further need of GCSF until overwhelmed by further damage.

[playground]

 

 

Yes, you can get GCSF and analogs relatively easily in the US, given a prescription which is not particularly hard to get. (But obviously you can't just go to your doctor complaining of a stomach ache and expect to walk out with one. It has to be an ailment which justifies stem cell mobilization, for example, some evidence of vascular damage in a vital organ. Sally, Simon, and I all have MRI evidence of small strokes to varying extents, which is why it was deemed appropriate for us.) BTW it requires refrigeration, which is one reason for its high price. But nothing that a household fridge set to max cold could not provide, for several months if need be.

 

Brand names: Emgrast, Filatil, Filgen, Fillif, Frastim, Grafeel, Granix, Granocyte, Grastim, Imupeg, Itact, Neukine, Neulasta, Neumax, Neupogen, Nfil, Nufil-Safe, Pegex, Pegstim, Religrast, Xphil, Zarzio

 

I've only used Neupogen, personally. Sally first took Filatil (Mexican) and had considerable positive effects, then tried Neupogen later, but noticed nothing much by way of further benefit. I suspect that you can buy Filatil at a Mexican pharmacy, but I can't confirm that.

 

@normalizing: I'm not sure what one could take in order to upregulate endogenous GCSF; instead, we can just inject it directly.

 

As I've discussed extensively in my thread, I think it works best for mental enhancement when taken while suffering from a headache (of an inflammatory nature, as opposed to a sinus one). But practically speaking, there are obvious hazards involved in attempting to create such a headache, and in principle one could go too far and end up with morbid brain swelling. GCSF certainly is not a casual nootropic! And it won't help you if your cerebrovasculature is healthy and intact, even if you suffer from other brain problems. Again, Sally, Simon, and I all had MRI confirmation of modest white matter lesions, so I suppose that the benefits are less surprising in our cases. Simon's case was particularly interesting. At first, he perceived some benefits to his balance (he has multiple small strokes impacting this function), but then continued to experience falls after a week or so. However, in the past 3 months, his balance has markedly improved, which is at least consistent with GCSF's mysteriously protracted period of action, long after cessation, as linked in my post above.

 

I think any further discussion of GCSF warrants its own thread, before the mods come through here and shred this thread to pieces.

 

Hi RG,  good post.

 

how many times have you taken this stuff ?

 

Do these drugs come as powders ... (that need to be reconstituted) ?

I'm thinking about the refrigeration requirement ...  and the possibility shipping this/these from Asia or America into Europe.

 

And how do you take it ? 

Is it one shot or multiple shots ?

If it's multiple shots, how many multiple shots ?

Daily injections ?

Injection into the muscle or just under the skin ?

 

For how many weeks, or months, after the last injection.... does it continue to work ?

 

Playground.
 

 

 

I've taken more than the equivalent of 10 300 ug doses. They come in solution, as injectable vials. So you need to draw it into a syringe. Injection is generally subcutaneous (arm or abdomen) but sometimes intramusclar. Refrigeration is accomplished by shipping in a thermally controlled styrofoam box. Generally, this is sent to the pharmacy, but it can be sent directly to an individual as well. I don't know how much interference would occur when shipping to Europe. Then again, it should be available in various stem cell therapy clinics over there. You might need to go to a dodgy one to acquire it, but at least, it should be available.

 

Generally, 300 ug is considered as a single injectable dose, . But based on my own experience and research, I would say that a quarter as much would be therapeutic. A key consideration is the observation that the effects of mesenchymal stem cell therapy are not dose-dependent, beyond a particular threshold. In this way, they actually emulate NGF. This is perhaps because such stem cells act more as signalling vehicles than actual repair units. I would say that I can tell the difference between a quarter vial and a third, within a matter of hours, but not between a whole vial and a vial and a half. On account of the very protracted action of this drug, however, it's very difficult to optimize the dose. As to number of doses, one might suffice in some cases, and I think more than 10 spread over as many days would be more risk than reward. Everyone is different, but my rough understanding is that 5 over 5 days is about right.

 

As linked in the study above, it seems to work over a number of months, perhaps up to a year. This is despite the fact that CD34+ populations revert to normal within a week or so. It seems that they kick off repair processes which then take on a life of their own, having no further need of GCSF until overwhelmed by further damage.

 

 

Hi  RG,

Did you get any side effects ?   Any at all ?

 

What's the worst case scenario ?

 

What dosages did Sally and Simon take ?

 

Did you / sally / simon do this with or without a doctor's assistance ?

 

How about 1 vial, taking 20% of the dosage, each day for 5 days ?

Or perhaps 2 vials, taking 33% (of a single vial) each day for 6 days ?

Would these scenarios be sufficient ?

 

playground.
 

[resveratrol_guy]

Well, it's all documented on my thread, but basically, I got only mild side effects: (1) nausea within a few minutes of first injection (cured by a few handfuls of almonds), (2) fatigue lasting a few days, and (3) bone pain the day after (expected, due to marrow depletion). The worst case scenario AFAIK is leukemia, but this risk has been studied extensively because GCSF is essential to the bone marrow donation process. Google knows more than I do, obviously, but my understanding is that it's possible to reach therapeutic levels of GCSF without materially increasing this risk. I would not recommend it as a "daily vitamin", but it might well be beneficial if taken only after vascular injury to a vital organ. (Again, if you take it too soon after injury, you might get dangerous levels of swelling or inflammation. But taking it after the inflammatory signals have disappeared would lessen the benefit, so this is a tradeoff to consider.)

Sally took 5 300 ug doses over 5 days. This was, for the most part, recorded on YouTube, but the videos have mysteriously disappeared. In any event, I was quite pleased by the effects that I observed, above all, the improvement in the steadiness of her walking gait and general mood.

Simon took 8 300 ug doses over 5 days. My understanding is that he hasn't fallen in a few months now, as compared to at least once a month before. I'll contact him again soon and get an update.

Apart from the prescription itself, no doctor's assistance is necessary. It's rather like a type 1 diabetic injecting insulin at home.

Personally, I think that maximum benefit is obtained by taking small doses periodically, instead of huge ones over just a few days. I had been doing that for a while, but took a break because I wanted to isolate the effects of Longvida from those of GCSF.

 

[playground]

Well, it's all documented on my thread, but basically, I got only mild side effects: (1) nausea within a few minutes of first injection (cured by a few handfuls of almonds), (2) fatigue lasting a few days, and (3) bone pain the day after (expected, due to marrow depletion). The worst case scenario AFAIK is leukemia, but this risk has been studied extensively because GCSF is essential to the bone marrow donation process. Google knows more than I do, obviously, but my understanding is that it's possible to reach therapeutic levels of GCSF without materially increasing this risk. I would not recommend it as a "daily vitamin", but it might well be beneficial if taken only after vascular injury to a vital organ. (Again, if you take it too soon after injury, you might get dangerous levels of swelling or inflammation. But taking it after the inflammatory signals have disappeared would lessen the benefit, so this is a tradeoff to consider.)

Sally took 5 300 ug doses over 5 days. This was, for the most part, recorded on YouTube, but the videos have mysteriously disappeared. In any event, I was quite pleased by the effects that I observed, above all, the improvement in the steadiness of her walking gait and general mood.

Simon took 8 300 ug doses over 5 days. My understanding is that he hasn't fallen in a few months now, as compared to at least once a month before. I'll contact him again soon and get an update.

Apart from the prescription itself, no doctor's assistance is necessary. It's rather like a type 1 diabetic injecting insulin at home.

Personally, I think that maximum benefit is obtained by taking small doses periodically, instead of huge ones over just a few days. I had been doing that for a while, but took a break because I wanted to isolate the effects of Longvida from those of GCSF.

 

Thanks RG,

 

Once you've taken a course of N injections... how long before the full effects materialise ?

 

Did you, Simon & Sally feel that the injections had _obviously_ had a definitely positive effect ?

Not just in terms of, for example,  balance or falling over.... but mentally, cognitively ?

 

playground