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DIY preparing solutions/suspensions MASTER THREAD

diy solutions suspensions preparations

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#1 tolerant

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:45 PM


There have been a few recent threads (and one old one) relating preparing your own DIY solutions from powders:  

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/8468-nootropic-powders-to-solutions/
http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/72073-tablet-crusher-for-preparing-suspensions/
http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/71872-dropper-bottles/
http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/71737-making-coluracetam-sublingual-solution/  

I would like to start a master thread where all issues relating to DIY preparations can be discussed.  

My first question would be for someone with basic knowledge of chemistry to have a look at this patent and describe in plain language how to make a stable pregabalin solution from Lyrica capsules. This is for the purpose of a very slow taper. Please don't ignore this request. It is only a very short patent and it seems to me the pregabalin is dissolvable and stable in water. But I would like confirmation from someone who is familiar with chemistry.



#2 protoject

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 11:17 PM

I was actually wondering about this earlier in regards to pregabalin. I mean the whole issue is kind of offset if you have pure powder that you can weigh, but liquid dosing would be so much more convenient  and less laborious.

Anyway. yes. Good thread. Unfortunately i can't contribute at this time but it's a very good start. Because if you look at pregabalin for example it only dissolves so many mg per L and it's a very small amount. So there must be some way to make a liquid suspension with a much higher concentration.



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#3 tolerant

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 11:28 PM

I was actually wondering about this earlier in regards to pregabalin. I mean the whole issue is kind of offset if you have pure powder that you can weigh, but liquid dosing would be so much more convenient  and less laborious.

Anyway. yes. Good thread. Unfortunately i can't contribute at this time but it's a very good start. Because if you look at pregabalin for example it only dissolves so many mg per L and it's a very small amount. So there must be some way to make a liquid suspension with a much higher concentration.

 

I actually never opened a capsule to see what's inside, but I guess it's powder. At any rate, you can get bulk pregabalin powder. Yes, you can weigh every dose, but it's a hassle. A compounding pharmacy will make you a solution, but it will cost a bit. So the idea is to make yourself a solution in a dropper bottle and taper down slowly, few drops at a time.

 

I need to do the same thing for clonazepam as well, but I've already worked out how to make a stable suspension. Actually, I'll attach the article from the International Journal of Pharmaceutical Compounding if anyone is interested.

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#4 komoku

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:32 PM

the problem with using water to make a stock SL solution is that water becomes contaminated very quickly and can make you sick if you do not add a preservative. the patent clearly states at least 1 preservative is necessary... and from my knowledge of pharmaceutics, even with a preservative the shelf-life would probably be no more than 30 days (10-14 days or less without a preservative). the patent mentions methylparaben at 2mg/mL or ethylparaben at 0.5mg/mL as acceptable preservatives that will maintain pH

 

also, it seems simply being in the presence of water will increase degradation of the drug due to lactam ring formation. a ph of 5.5-7.0 is necessary to minimize this conversion process.

 

if you want to create a stock solution, make no more than 3 days supply and you can use water without preservatives... purified water is right around 7.0 pH, and tap water can range from 6.0-8.0 or higher.


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#5 tolerant

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 04:01 AM

if you want to create a stock solution, make no more than 3 days supply and you can use water without preservatives... purified water is right around 7.0 pH, and tap water can range from 6.0-8.0 or higher.

 

Komoku, thanks for sharing your knowledge. You sound like you know what you're talking about. I'm not yet familiar with sourcing/using preservatives. My question is: would saline act as a preservative. If I make a solution (in this case low-dose naltrexone) and store it in saline in the fridge at 4C, will it be good for 11 days?

 

If someone is unfamiliar with using preservatives, would it be the best option to buy "bacteriostatic water", even if the ROA is oral/intranasal rather than IM?

 

On another matter altogether, the editor of the International Journal of International Compounding was good enough to provide information which I posted as an update in this thread: http://www.longecity...ng-suspensions/

 

This information pretty much closes that particular thread I would have thought.


Edited by tolerant, 08 August 2014 - 04:07 AM.


#6 komoku

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 04:38 AM

 

if you want to create a stock solution, make no more than 3 days supply and you can use water without preservatives... purified water is right around 7.0 pH, and tap water can range from 6.0-8.0 or higher.

 

Komoku, thanks for sharing your knowledge. You sound like you know what you're talking about. I'm not yet familiar with sourcing/using preservatives. My question is: would saline act as a preservative. If I make a solution (in this case low-dose naltrexone) and store it in saline in the fridge at 4C, will it be good for 11 days?

 

If someone is unfamiliar with using preservatives, would it be the best option to buy "bacteriostatic water", even if the ROA is oral/intranasal rather than IM?

 

On another matter altogether, the editor of the International Journal of International Compounding was good enough to provide information which I posted as an update in this thread: http://www.longecity...ng-suspensions/

 

This information pretty much closes that particular thread I would have thought.

 

 

saline is probably worse than water from a preservative stand point because it's isotonic, which is more ideal for bacterial growth than pure water.

 

if you use water instead of saline for the naltrexone solution, you'll probably be able to keep it good for 11 days as long as you refrigerate it, just keep it in a transparent bottle so you can check for any changes like more cloudiness or clumps floating around in the solution as these would be signs of contamination.

 

bacteriostatic water is basically just water with a preservative already in it... so it becomes important to know which preservative they're using. often you'll see it's benzyl alcohol, which is a classic preservative but can interact with some medications (i think they mentioned that in the patent somewhere).



#7 tolerant

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 04:46 AM

 


saline is probably worse than water from a preservative stand point because it's isotonic, which is more ideal for bacterial growth than pure water.

 

if you use water instead of saline for the naltrexone solution, you'll probably be able to keep it good for 11 days as long as you refrigerate it, just keep it in a transparent bottle so you can check for any changes like more cloudiness or clumps floating around in the solution as these would be signs of contamination.

 

bacteriostatic water is basically just water with a preservative already in it... so it becomes important to know which preservative they're using. often you'll see it's benzyl alcohol, which is a classic preservative but can interact with some medications (i think they mentioned that in the patent somewhere).

 

 

 

So basically I did everything wrong. I dissolved that naltrexone in a saline solution and stored it in an amber jar. How come water gets contaminated with microbes? Where do the microbes come from? 

 

And, most importantly, what will happen if you drink a solution water contaminated in this way? Will you get a stomach upset? The flue? Worse?

 

Also wondering: is propylene glycol bacteriostatic in and of itself or do you need to add preservative to it? In another thread, I was told that there's no need to refrigerate propylene glycol itself. That would mean it would not require a preservative when mixed with something to form a solution?


Edited by tolerant, 08 August 2014 - 04:57 AM.


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#8 komoku

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 12:09 AM

 

 


saline is probably worse than water from a preservative stand point because it's isotonic, which is more ideal for bacterial growth than pure water.

 

if you use water instead of saline for the naltrexone solution, you'll probably be able to keep it good for 11 days as long as you refrigerate it, just keep it in a transparent bottle so you can check for any changes like more cloudiness or clumps floating around in the solution as these would be signs of contamination.

 

bacteriostatic water is basically just water with a preservative already in it... so it becomes important to know which preservative they're using. often you'll see it's benzyl alcohol, which is a classic preservative but can interact with some medications (i think they mentioned that in the patent somewhere).

 

 

 

So basically I did everything wrong. I dissolved that naltrexone in a saline solution and stored it in an amber jar. How come water gets contaminated with microbes? Where do the microbes come from? 

 

And, most importantly, what will happen if you drink a solution water contaminated in this way? Will you get a stomach upset? The flue? Worse?

 

Also wondering: is propylene glycol bacteriostatic in and of itself or do you need to add preservative to it? In another thread, I was told that there's no need to refrigerate propylene glycol itself. That would mean it would not require a preservative when mixed with something to form a solution?

 

 

microbes/bacteria are found everywhere and anywhere, but it's only when they grow colonies can their numbers cause problems, as well as certain types if they grab a hold in solutions. when you prepare a solution in a bottle and let it sit, it basically just becomes a breeding ground for growth and can become contaminated (hence why you might've heard to avoid drinking stagnating water, because it's probably full of nasty bacteria that can make you really sick).

 

you'll likely get stomach upset, maybe some vomiting and diarrhea as well... but its just not fun to go through so avoid eating spoiled foods and avoid drinking contaminated fluids.

 

water is essential for all life, including bacteria, and propylene glycol has no water, therefore it doesn't need to be refrigerated and is very unlikely to become contaminated. however if you mix it with water or saline, then the resulting solution can still become contaminated. if the amount of water in the mixture is small, the contamination risk is smaller, and vice versa. a good rule of thumb is to refrigerate any solution you make that has any amount of water in it. refrigeration slows down the growth process of bacteria so that's why people tell you to refrigerate drinks like milk and juice.


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