20 replies to this topic

[mono]

Hi I was just wondering if anyone here has experienced or has any knowledge of psychedelic drug induced PTSD.

 

I'm not exactly sure how else to classify, but just having a repeated experience on very high and submersing doses of psychedelics that is so horrid and traumatising it induces a long term problem with your mental health.

 

How could one work at recovering from this kind of thing? Any info appreciated.

 

---

 

P.S. My honest advice is to keep away from these kinds of chemicals, they can leave you with problems that never go away.

Edited by mono, 28 July 2014 - 11:36 PM.

[Adaptogen]

can i ask more details about your experience?

 

what was the substance ingested? in what way was the experience traumatic and what was the root cause of your bad trip?

[mono]

Sure.

 

Well mainly condensed to LSD, psilocybin and DMT. LSD at around 300-500mcg induced a psychotic break twice which wore off after the trip. And although neither DMT nor psilocybin induced psychosis, I did breakthrough on both chemicals numerous times where the whole experience had underlying fear. I still feel this fear to this day despite being clean fr over 4 years.

 

I picked this up also because environments such as psytrance festivals, or psychedelic visual animations (such as in WMP) trigger a deep-rooted fear based response.

 

 

[mono]

It's hard to get at the root of it. Obviously my brain chemisty is predisopsed to psychosis, but I think the sheer overwhelming nature of the experience and the fact the a breakthrough experience is such a foreign and infinite landscape, my natural reaction was to fear it. But even at breakthrough doses, despite being 'ego-less' as one might put it, my body's reaction was still a deep fear response.

[Adaptogen]

i see. I've experienced panic attacks at the end of two psilocybin trips, which i attribute solely to excessive thc ingestion.

I think it is possible that, because psilocybin increases hippocampal neurogenesis and fear response learning, this can go both ways. With a profoundly positive trip, you can have extinction of fear. and with a deeply negative experience, you can have a stronger learned fear response than before.

 

however, i still think that it possesses potential for ptsd treatment. there is more and more research coming out in favor of its anxiety-ameliorating effects. from unadulterated psilocybin itself, i think that it is rather hard to have a negative experience (assuming set and setting are appropriate, as this is extremely important). At least for myself, I am planning on a "hair of dog" approach, and will be re-ingesting soon, in hopes of extinguishing my habituated fear responses. I think that psilocybin has this potential because, on my second "bad trip" i experienced a major reduction in anxiety/panic symptoms, and it was only until co-ingestion of thc that i relapsed.

 

Here are a few references as to why psilocybin may be effective in this respect:

http://www.scienceda...40507095756.htm - Psilocybin inhibits the processing of negative emotions in the brain

www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-3223(14)00275-3/abstract - Psilocybin-Induced Decrease in Amygdala Reactivity Correlates with Enhanced Positive Mood in Healthy Volunteers

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23727882 - Effects of psilocybin on hippocampal neurogenesis and extinction of trace fear conditioning.

Obviously, this is a scary route for someone that is suffering directly as a result of their psychedelic substance use. however, i think that with appropriate set, setting, and research, it can be a wholly beneficial experience. Of course, this advice is only directed towards psilocybin use, and the use of any other chemical for treatment would not be recommended. I would strongly advise reading this text as preparation for any trip - http://www.sacred-te...tib/psydead.htm

 

 

Outside of re-ingesting psychedelics, exercise is probably the best alternative (/supplementary option). There is a large body of evidence indicating that cardio exercises significantly increase hippocampal neurogenesis, speeding up the process of conditioned fear learning (and extinction). Ultimately, you can't go wrong with exercising more.

 

http://www.scirp.org...23#.U9bonhbWFWk - Reduction of Fear by Intense Aerobic Exercise Approaching Physical Exhaustion

http://www.sciencedi...16643280900610X - Voluntary exercise improves both learning and consolidation of cued conditioned fear in C57 mice

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15869081 - The impact of an exercise program on posttraumatic stress disorder, anxiety, and depression.

[mono]

Yeah I'm doing 30 mins of fairly intense cardio 4x a week and also surfing whenever the conditions arise. No doubt the cardio is having some very positive effects on my mental health and cognition.

I was thinking there may be a way to address this fear of the unknown through psycho analysis/therapy or hypnosis?

[YOLF]

Oxytocin Factor (OF) is great for PTSD, I've posted in lots of threads about it. I'd give it a read. 

 

Basically absence of OF creates anxiety and under certain conditions this can make any kind of duress worse. Try the OF and see what happens, though you'll want to read up on it. I've posted lots about it here.

[mono]

Interesting thanks I'll check it out.

[AlmostEasy]

I've had a pretty intense experience with Psilocybin; though I can't positively say that I "broke through" to a psychedelic dimension but I did in fact feel extreme fear, and I definitely tripped balls.  My aftereffects lasted about 3 months though (both negative and positive), and I didn't really do anything to resolve it it just sort of slowly faded, so it's hard to try and give advice from personal experience but I do follow the movement very closely.

 

It's hard to tell if it's a physiological thing or a mental/emotional thing that you have to accept/incorporate.  It's messy for sure.  If you weren't predisposed to mental psychosis I would probably suggest some pure MDMA, since they're using it to cure PTSD in veterans, but that may be extremely risky.  My MDMA trips did not turn negative but I can't in all good faith say that that would be a good idea for you.

 

So from there I'd say the obvious diet/exercise/sleep/supplements/meds and then strongly recommend a meditation practice since you seem to be predisposed to the idea of enlightenment.  Check out Project Meditation.  There's some powerful stuff there.  Binaural / Isochronic beats.  Inspiring forums as well.  Meditation shouldn't underestimated and deserves much more focus in mainstream society.  It's power to heal/enlighten is unquestionable.  If you want to get to know yourself and your fears, this is one great way to do it.  It takes dedication and persistence, the results come with time.

 

Another thing to investigate would be isolation tanks.  There's great potential for self revelation there as well as deep relaxation/restoration.

 

Best of luck.  While I haven't completely solved my own problems, I've certainly learned a lot along the way!  Feel free to ask any more questions if you wish!

 

Edit - apologies!  Just noticed now in my thread you mentioned you already meditate, I probably should've assumed.  P.M. is a great site though

Edited by AlmostEasy, 29 July 2014 - 03:35 AM.

[mono]

Great thanks for your reply! I meditate frequently but haven't reached the point where I can calm my mind. Binaural / isochronic beats sounds like a brilliant way to enhance/soothe my practice, I'll give it a go cheers

[mono]

Have you tried an isolation tank yourself? Can you tell me about your experience?

[AlmostEasy]

Have you tried an isolation tank yourself? Can you tell me about your experience?

Sure!

 

They're a pretty uncommon thing and by the graces of the Gods I found one in my dinky little hick college town; I never ever expected to find one there.  So I immediately headed over there and checked it out.  Very cool little place.  2 tanks, a room for each.  $15/hour.  Room had a nice shower for before/after.  Get in tank, relax, and float

 

Unfortunately I did not get much from it as I'm just physically unable to relax.  I could feel my body letting go everywhere except for my neck.  It feels as if it's made of concrete there, or did then.  It's less so now.  If my Lyme hypothesis is correct then I do probably have a physiological reason for stiffness/tension in my muscles.  Most magic seems to happen after the relaxation point.  It did make me pretty calm and gave me a general boost in my sense of well being but I wasn't able to go as deep as I had really hoped.

I definitely don't regret it, would definitely advise it, and am definitely going to do it again given the chance.  The guy that ran it said he's experienced some crazy stuff and has had other people walk out with a deer in the headlights look; some people go for back recovery/relief sort of thing and get more than they bargained for.  Joe Rogan talks extensively about it if you've ever heard his podcast.  He thinks every person in America should have one and goes in it 3-4 times/week generally blazed to the gills, but he says even sober he can achieve some interesting states of consciousness.

[mono]

Tried the free sample at Project Meditation. My meditation was soothed and no doubt deepened! Thanks!

[panhedonic]

I had a fearful experience from a 5meo-DMT trip thirteen years ago, and to this day I can experience profound moments of fear. 

 

Supplements, Selegiline and intense cardio have helped me a lot (also a loving relationship and more of a commitment to work) but still I'm not out of the woods, or so it seems sometimes. 

[Steve Zissou]

I picked this up also because environments such as psytrance festivals, or psychedelic visual animations (such as in WMP) trigger a deep-rooted fear based response.

I can relate to that somewhat. I feel uncomfortable during intense light shows at electronic music festivals and such.

I would say get some tianeptine. Took lsd last week even though I had a bad experience with it before, and tianeptine bottomed out my mood, so even during the rough parts of the trip, i never felt anything worse than uncomfortable.

 

Tianeptine is known for reversing stress induced deficits in your brain. It might reverse the unpleasant feelings which come up with your previous memories.

[panhedonic]

 

Tianeptine is known for reversing stress induced deficits in your brain. It might reverse the unpleasant feelings which come up with your previous memories.

 

Thanks for the tip. Can you point me to where you read this?

[SIRT1]

The fear may be like an internal awareness the identity view is being overwhelmed or threatened.

Edited by SIRT1, 03 August 2014 - 12:57 AM.

[mono]

[i]The fear may be like an internal awareness the identity view is being overwhelmed or threatened.[\i]

Yes this I can understand and relate too!

[mono]

In that case - hardcore meditation would be perfect

[SIRT1]

If they were legal, I wouldn't warn people away from them totally.

 

There are reports of them causing brain cell growth.

 

I think people get into trouble taking more than they are ready for.

 

Sometimes you have to accept your self identity and beliefs don't hold under certain conditions.

 

It's like our house, built on sand, gets washed away in the psychedelic flood.

 

It may be hard to let go of at the time, but don't worry, its not permanent.

 

It will rebuild itself when the floods gone.

 

Edited by SIRT1, 04 August 2014 - 11:00 PM.

[mono]

Yeah I reckon my psyche or ego is so traumatised by the sheer force of psychedelics that force being a push towards egolessness and letting go. It just reacted with fear so strong it's never left me. I can't let go and trust people, I can't let go and feel comfortable in my surroundings etc etc any practice towards a basis of surrendering the ego or letting go results in a fear based response.

I have a very strong sense hypnotherapy will be a great treatment for me / starting point.