4 replies to this topic

[metabrain]

Hi all,

 

I have been reading up on Piracetam glutamate toxicity and I was wondering would N-Acetyl L Cysteine be a good way to mop up the excess glutamate or would that defeat the purpose of using Piracetam?

[medicineman]

there isn't one paper showing that piracetam is toxic in most (if not all) circumstances. there are studies on cell cultures showing that oxidative damage maybe an issue if used in large doses (over three grams daily hed I think).

why do some healthy individuals sometimes complain of cognitive issues/brain fog etc. with piracetam? I think it was summarized well by some neuroscientist in quora who said :

Possibly because glutamate excitotoxicity doesn't work the way most people assume that it does. It's definitely true that high levels of glutamate are toxic to neurons under certain conditions. But those conditions are generally very different from an intact brain.

Alternatively, in the intact brain, piracetam doesn't work the way people think it does.

[Duchykins]

Excitoxicity threshold varies not only within each person but within different times with that person, and there are many different things that affect it; dopamine, serotonin, GABA, cellular energy, electrolyte balance and hydration, glycine, aspartic acid, etc


The other issue isn't so much as 'how much glutamate' there is so much as an individual's ability to clear gluamate, and what environmental factors affect clearing glutamate. For example, say you have X amount of glutamate floating around outside your cells at any time during the day. X won't trigger the opening of calcium channels on a certain day because you slept well, you stayed hydrated, you didn't go too far between meals, and your dopamine and GABA are normal. But say the next day you woke up too early, your dopamine and GABA are a little low, and you skipped lunch. Now that same X level of glutamate becomes excitotoxic because your cellular energy gets too low and your dopamine is too low.


NAC isn't terribly useful in preventing glutamate excitoxicity, to my knowledge. At least not comparable to stuff like coQ10, theanine, B vitamins, magnesium, taurine, lysine, zinc and perhaps schizandrol a.

In my personal opinion, piracetam carries the smallest risk of glutamate-related problems, so small a migraineur like me has never had issue with it. Other noots are more troublesome.

Edited by Duchykins, 30 July 2014 - 01:11 AM.

[metabrain]

there isn't one paper showing that piracetam is toxic in most (if not all) circumstances. there are studies on cell cultures showing that oxidative damage maybe an issue if used in large doses (over three grams daily hed I think).

why do some healthy individuals sometimes complain of cognitive issues/brain fog etc. with piracetam? I think it was summarized well by some neuroscientist in quora who said :
 

Possibly because glutamate excitotoxicity doesn't work the way most people assume that it does. It's definitely true that high levels of glutamate are toxic to neurons under certain conditions. But those conditions are generally very different from an intact brain.

Alternatively, in the intact brain, piracetam doesn't work the way people think it does.

 

 

The substance Piracetam itself is not toxic but it's effects over time are, calcium influx and the over stimulation of NMDA receptors are the two mechanisms of concern. When I was in Thailand a few months ago I went to a doctor for food poisoning and decided to ask him about Piracetam since it's popular in Thailand. The doctor  told me that he has used the medicine for over 23 years in TBI cases and that Piracetam should not be taken for longer than 6 months as it's healing effects follow a U curve into excitotoxicity. He explained to me that is the reason why Piracetam is not the miracle drug most people think it is.

 

I stopped using Piracetam after this as this reflected other Longecity users concerns  and the concerns of my Psychiatrists who looked into Piracetam for me.

 

Piracetam worked wonders for me indeed but I did listen to each side objectively and concluded that most of the studies people on Longecity quote showing Piracetam to be safe were not double blind and not of long enough duration. 

[Duchykins]

I low dose piracetam since that seems to get me the most desirable results. Piracetam has never triggered a migraine and my brain is very excitable and prone to overstimulation. I have trouble clearing glutamate, doing what I'm supposed to do with it, and that's one of the bigger reasons I get migraines. Because of my sensitivity I can be sort of like a canary in the coal mine.

Piracetam and glutamate excitotoxicity is not that serious a concern, unless you are taking obscene doses, not sleeping or eating well, using stimulants, and not making any effort to make sure your calcium channels stay closed.