41 replies to this topic

[idontknow256]

Hello,i recently build a nootropic stack for Memory,Focus,Creativity,Energy,Anxiety and Sleep. 

-Semax 100mcg 3x daily

-Noopept 20mg 3x daily

-Sunifiram 10mg 3x daily

-Unifiram 5mg 3x daily

-Picamilon 100mg 3x daily

-Caffeine Anhydrous 200mg 3x daily 

-Choline Bitartrate 1g 3x daily

-Melatonin 300mcg Before bed

 

So what do you think?

 

 

Edited by kim254, 30 July 2014 - 06:45 PM.

[YOLF]

seen bad reviews of choline bitartrate, haven't experienced them myself though.

 

Too much caffeine, you're going to kill yourself or injure yourself to the point where you can't use it anymore...

 

Use the melatonin as needed or periodically, it gets recycled from night to night and can build up, esp. if you eat well and take other supplements/noots.

Edited by cryonicsculture, 30 July 2014 - 10:21 PM.

[Jun Han]

As your stack is primarily aimed at cognitive enhancements and nootropic properties, I'd suggest either Alpha-GPC or Choline-CDP, or both, rather than Choline Bitartrate.
Choline Bitartrate, despite 41% choline by weight, increases the systemic choline concentration but does not reliably increase neural choline concentration. CDP-choline is able to increase neural choline concentration more effectively, but only has 18.5% of choline by weight.
Alpha-GPC is said to be an efficient source of choline supplementation and yet is 40% choline by weight. So, I'd suggest a switch from Choline Bitartrate to Alpha-GPC or alongside Choline-CDP for the purpose of cognitive enhancements.

What source of choline should I use?
Choline bitartrate is sufficient for any liver benefits of choline, although for nootropic purposes a more expensive form may be required. Both CDP-Choline and Alpha-GPC are effective.
Both Alpha-GPC and CDP-Choline are forms of choline that are prodrugs for two molecules, choline and something else that helps with membrane production. Although more expensive, both are suitable forms for nootropic purposes

→ source (external link)

 

As for caffeine, I strongly believe caffeine supplementation is not necessary for a daily nootropic stack. I'd suggest you to drop caffeine over safety concerns and dwindling efficacy.

However, if you insist, I'd then suggest you to lower the amount to a generally acceptable range of 300mg-400mg limit.

Caffeine Safe Limits: How to Determine Your Safe Daily Dose
For healthy adults with no medical issues, it is generally agreed upon that 300mg-400mg of caffeine can be consumed daily without any adverse effects.

→ source (external link)

Caffeine (1, 3, 7-trimethylxanthine) in Foods: A Comprehensive Review on Consumption, Functionality, Safety, and Regulatory Matters; DOI: 10.1111/j.1750-3841.2010.01561.x
by Melanie A. Heckman, Jorge Weil and Elvira Gonzalez De Mejia
Conclusions: The majority of the human studies that have been conducted in the past decade have demonstrated that moderate (<400 mg/d) caffeine consumption poses no significant health risks to most consumers (Nawrot and others 2003)

→ source (external link)

 

Melatonin should be fine, but as with hormones, ridding it would be advisable as hormonal additions may lead to dependence, as was advised by moderator and advisor cryonicsculture
at http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=677229 and http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=677242

Oh and melatonin isn't something you want to use long term either. You can develop a dependency on it. I've done it. Periodically is good, but it gets recycled and I think even small doses might accumulate from my experience. I had to go cold turkey to get back to normal and now just use it for the occasional sleep cycle correction. This might have been due to having to switch to higher dosages due to the availability of the small doses though. Be careful.

It is an extremely low amount, but we're talking about a hormone, and small amounts make all the difference. Some antioxidants can help to recycle it too. The problem is that you might stop making it.

 

I'll look into your other substances.
 

[idontknow256]

Stack updated:

-Semax 100mcg 3x daily

-Noopept 20mg 3x daily

-Sunifiram 10mg 3x daily

-Unifiram 5mg 3x daily

-Picamilon 100mg 3x daily

-Caffeine Anhydrous 100mg 3x daily 

-Choline Bitartrate 1g 3x daily

-Melatonin 300mcg Before bed

 

 

So what do you think now?

 

Edited by kim254, 04 August 2014 - 01:52 PM.

[YOLF]

I think you're still pushing it with the caffeine. You should be able to achiev good results with as little as 35-50mg 3x/day. 

[idontknow256]

I think you're still pushing it with the caffeine. You should be able to achiev good results with as little as 35-50mg 3x/day. 

Ok,and the others nootropic dosage are safe?

Edited by kim254, 04 August 2014 - 07:13 PM.

[YOLF]

Hmmm... I'm not entirely sure about the rest of the dosages. I don't have much experience with anything other than the caffeine, melatonin, and choline. Have you tried the new stacks feature?

[idontknow256]

Hmmm... I'm not entirely sure about the rest of the dosages. I don't have much experience with anything other than the caffeine, melatonin, and choline. Have you tried the new stacks feature?

Thanks.I was thinking about this stack:ephedrine 8mg 3x daily,caffeine 50mg 3x daily,piracetam 2g 3x daily,alpha gpc 200mg 3x daily,picamillon 100mg 3x daily and metalonin 300 mcg before sleep.

[YOLF]

I would stress safety. There are some side effects and contraindictions associated with ephedrine. It's not for everyone. You might want to take a bit more choline with 2g of piracetam depending on the amount of choline in your diet. There are some discussions regarding it IIRC. Oh, and I seem to remember someone mentioning a 4800mg/day limit for piracetam, you might want to scale back on it a bit. Also be mindful of it's "zombie effect," that it might lower T, and that it probably won't need to be taken longer than 6 months as that's around the time that the benefits plateau. The picamilon looks safe, but I don't have much information on it.

[idontknow256]

I would stress safety. There are some side effects and contraindictions associated with ephedrine. It's not for everyone. You might want to take a bit more choline with 2g of piracetam depending on the amount of choline in your diet. There are some discussions regarding it IIRC. Oh, and I seem to remember someone mentioning a 4800mg/day limit for piracetam, you might want to scale back on it a bit. Also be mindful of it's "zombie effect," that it might lower T, and that it probably won't need to be taken longer than 6 months as that's around the time that the benefits plateau. The picamilon looks safe, but I don't have much information on it.

Ok thank you very much.

[YOLF]

My pleasure

[medicineman]

why won't you get your Caffeine from coffee? caffeine is an amazing molecule, with exceptional benefits, and possible life extension via mtor. coffee is high in other beneficial anti-oxidants, reduces risks of dementia, parkinson's, diabetes, and heart failure. I would drop the supplementation of caffeine, and instead get it from coffee.

[idontknow256]

why won't you get your Caffeine from coffee? caffeine is an amazing molecule, with exceptional benefits, and possible life extension via mtor. coffee is high in other beneficial anti-oxidants, reduces risks of dementia, parkinson's, diabetes, and heart failure. I would drop the supplementation of caffeine, and instead get it from coffee.

I dont like coffee.

Edited by kim254, 04 August 2014 - 08:38 PM.

[teebos]

how about tea?

[YOLF]

how about tea?

It has ower amounts of caffeine and contains Theanine which has a sedative effect despite being neuroprotective. It might be worth trying. There are also things like Guarana which contain caffeine.

[idontknow256]

how about tea?

Tea is weak!

[YOLF]

Oh, it occurred to me that the addition of choline might raise TMAO levels and therefor cholesterol and risk of cardiac events if you aren't strictly a herbivore. If you eat meat, eggs, or milk, you should take some tocotrienols and avoid foods with tocopherol forms of vitamin E as the cholesterol reduction caused by the tocotrienols is apparently negated in the presence of tocopherols. 

[thises]

 

how about tea?

It has ower amounts of caffeine and contains Theanine which has a sedative effect despite being neuroprotective. It might be worth trying. There are also things like Guarana which contain caffeine.

 

 

I thought it was supposed to help you think clearer without jitters like high dose coffee?
 

[Ekscentra]

Semax and Noopept in combination will likely result in excessive levels of BDNF. I'd get rid of the Noopept and use Semax at 500mcg 1x per day. The duration of Semax is long enough to make 3 doses per day highly unnecessary. Personally, I'd also replace the Choline Bitartrate with a combination of Krill Oil and Coluracetam, a combination I've found to work far better than any choline source. I concur with reducing the caffeine dosage. Definitely add 200mcg Methylene Blue in there - it's far too cheap and effective to justify exclusion. Perhaps replace Picamilon with Ashwaghanda as well. And though this is starting to get a bit excessive, you might try adding Selank in there at 500mcg - Ceretropic sells it for a great price, and I'm assuming that's where you get your Semax? Aside from this, I'd say it's a fantastic stack.

[Ekscentra]

 

 

how about tea?

It has ower amounts of caffeine and contains Theanine which has a sedative effect despite being neuroprotective. It might be worth trying. There are also things like Guarana which contain caffeine.

 

 

I thought it was supposed to help you think clearer without jitters like high dose coffee?
 

 

Certain sedatives in combination with stimulants can have this effect. Low doses of benzos, beta blockers, and alpha 2 agonists (Intuniv and Clonidine, especially) have a similar effect. I'd be inclined to recommend adding either of these two alpha 2 agonists, especially Intuniv, over Theanine, as I've found them to be much superior for reducing the undesirable side-effects of stimulants, while having a marked nootropic effect on their own. If you have insurance, getting a script and obtaining either of these two should be incredibly simple. Just claim to have anxiety and/or insomnia, or assuming your use of Melatonin is for this purpose, all the easier to obtain a script. If you don't have insurance however, Theanine is still a great alternative.

Edited by Ekscentra, 10 August 2014 - 04:07 PM.

[idontknow256]

Semax and Noopept in combination will likely result in excessive levels of BDNF. I'd get rid of the Noopept and use Semax at 500mcg 1x per day. The duration of Semax is long enough to make 3 doses per day highly unnecessary. Personally, I'd also replace the Choline Bitartrate with a combination of Krill Oil and Coluracetam, a combination I've found to work far better than any choline source. I concur with reducing the caffeine dosage. Definitely add 200mcg Methylene Blue in there - it's far too cheap and effective to justify exclusion. Perhaps replace Picamilon with Ashwaghanda as well. And though this is starting to get a bit excessive, you might try adding Selank in there at 500mcg - Ceretropic sells it for a great price, and I'm assuming that's where you get your Semax? Aside from this, I'd say it's a fantastic stack.

Thank you very much.

[idontknow256]

Again updated stack:-

-Semax 100mcg 3x daily

-Methylene Blue 100mcg 3x daily

-Noopept 20mg 3x daily

-Coluracetam 10mg 3x daily

-Uridine 100mg 3x daily

-Alcar 500mg 3x daily

-Choline Bitartrate 1g 3x daily 

-Caffeine 50mg 3x daily

-NDA 25mg 3x daily

-Fish Oil 2x softgels daily

-Astaxanthin 10mg 3x daily

-Melatonin 300mcg Before bed

 

[YOLF]

There are some possible risks with ALCAR. It's been argued every which way. You should read up on it and get your own sense of it. Other than that, I don't have anything to add.

[Tiournin]

There are some possible risks with ALCAR. It's been argued every which way. You should read up on it and get your own sense of it. Other than that, I don't have anything to add.

 

links?
 

[YOLF]

 

There are some possible risks with ALCAR. It's been argued every which way. You should read up on it and get your own sense of it. Other than that, I don't have anything to add.

 

links?
 

 

 

Just use the search feature with the terms "alcar tmao." I'm sure there are more up to date conversations than the ones I'm involved in. I haven't kept up with it for while and it seems the conversation has developed. 

[Babychris]

You are really from north Korea ? 

[idontknow256]

You are really from north Korea ? 

Yes comrade!

[Babychris]

Hahah funny ! And you have access to website like longecity ? And why do you feel the need to put the picture of your stupid dictator. And to be clear and honest I think that yours is as stupid as most of politician of the world. I would have the same reaction if you put Barack Obama. But Kim is particularly criticizible

[Flex]

Hahah funny ! And you have access to website like longecity ? And why do you feel the need to put the picture of your stupid dictator. And to be clear and honest I think that yours is as stupid as most of politician of the world. I would have the same reaction if you put Barack Obama. But Kim is particularly criticizible

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/pyongyang ....

Edited by Flex, 02 September 2014 - 06:10 PM.

[Shane Minor]

This is a big part of the more is more myth when dealing with Nootropic Stacks... Your stack lacks synergy... everything is combating another thing and that is going to fuck you up my friend.... Please private message me if you want my help here, I've done extensive research into the subject of Nootropics and Brain Nutrition, as of now I'm developing a stack that I hope to market as an available supplement in the near future.