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Phase I Sleep FAR BETTER than PHASE 2,3&4? How Come?

rem sleep delta theta recovery

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#1 sub7

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:44 PM


Here is phenomenon that I have been experiencing consistently for at least a decade (likely this has been going on all my life, yet it has happened more often during last several years; prior to that I wasn't paying this much attention and never identified it in precise terms)

 

I have fairly severe insomnia. In addition to having a very difficult time falling asleep, I also do not get as much rest and recovery from a regular 8 hour sleep and often find the need to sleep closer to 10 hours. I have been in sleep clinics very many times and other than a mild form of apnea (which is way down now that I am lighter and leaner; almost fully gone) the problem was simply identified as Primary Insomnia.

 

There is however a particular type of sleep that is pretty much magical for me. It can happen in one of two ways

 

- I sleep for 5 hours or less and then wake up. I spend some time reading or working on the computer (I know not the best way to elicit sleep) and then I go to bed in a very sleep deprived state after around an hour of passing time

 

- Or I have a meeting/appointment early during the day and leave the apartment early. Unless I was able to go to bed very early, which is very rare, I am totally wasted after the meeting and get back home and lay down

 

In either case, I (may) drift into a a trance-like state shifting back and forth between sleep and wakefulness and have several quasi-hallucinations. I am naming these as such, because I am not mixing them up with reality; I see images (while my eyes are closed) that are nearly indistinguishable from ordinary images you'd see with open eyes. However I am still at some level aware that my eyes are closed and that these images aren't real. Also, I have a sensation of falling (either like tripping over or a long, sustained fall). Also, some saliva will drip from the corner of my mouth, which pretty much never happens when in a regular sleep

 

Simply an hour of this type of sleep is PURE MAGIC. I wake up completely rested and would guess that it is as restful as 4 or more hours of regular sleep would have been. In fact, it is possible that even 4 or 5 or 6 hours of sleep would not produce the same "refreshed" sensation that this produces.

 

Now, is what I am describing above not the typical PHASE I (or Stage I) sleep, which is supposed to be the least useful portion of the sleep cycle?
But much more crucially, who cares what it is called; how can I replicate this more often? I tried, two times, to set up an alarm and wake in the middle if the night and then replicate this but in the two attempts, I failed. Is this simply a natural byproduct of biphasic sleep?
What else can I do to get the same effect?

Thanks a lot All....



#2 pro-v

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:34 PM

Get a sleep monitor and see what's happening when this occurs.
I wish I could take naps but feel awful afterwards and have trouble sleeping later on. A sleep study showed that when I took naps I would drop off into deep sleep fairly quickly.

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#3 platypus

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:41 PM

Whatever kind of sleep that is, perhaps you're normally chronically deprived of it. 



#4 sub7

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:41 PM

bump...

any other input?



#5 komoku

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:59 PM

sounds like you're experiencing lucid dreaming to me.

 

and it also sounds like the reason why it's so restful is because of your body's state going into it, rather than it being at a specific time of the day or during biphasic sleeping.

 

phase sleep relies on consistency, which you don't seem to have... so rather it's because after a couple of days of erratic sleeping your body is in significant sleep deprivation that it can quickly slip into REM sleep/lucid dreaming and you experience a full sleep phase in that 1 hour window.

 

from wikipedia:

 

A lucid dream can begin in one of many ways. A dream-initiated lucid dream (D.I.L.D.) starts as a normal dream, and the dreamer eventually concludes it is a dream. A wake-initiated lucid dream (W.I.L.D.) occurs when the dreamer goes from a normal waking state directly into a dream state, with no apparent lapse in consciousness. The wake-initiated lucid dream occurs when the sleeper enters REM sleep with unbroken self-awareness directly from the waking state.[29]

 

 


Edited by komoku, 06 August 2014 - 12:00 AM.


#6 sub7

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 08:39 PM

that does sound right

is the lucid dreaming the main cause of the refreshing sleep? it isn't I'd guess (and that lucid dreams and sleep quality, in this case, are corollary)

anything I can do to elicit this type/depth of sleep more often?



#7 Dichotohmy

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 08:36 PM

You're describing something akin to hypnagogic hallucinations and the hypnagogic state that occurs during phase N1. Sleep deprivation, or in my case, more appropriately, "quality" sleep deprivation, is a well-studied and sure-fire trigger to induce this fun world of spacial hallucinations and non-REM dreaming. The phenomenon is quite common in narcolepsy, but also occurs in idiopathic hypersomnia and other disorders.

 

In my experience, falling asleep while under the influence of psychostimulant medication or caffeine is more likely to induce this state for me - sometimes for hours. I'm the complete opposite of you in that there is absolutely nothing restful or refreshing about this N1 "sleep."



#8 tolerant

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 07:16 AM

 I'm the complete opposite of you in that there is absolutely nothing restful or refreshing about this N1 "sleep."

 

+1

 

 

Get a sleep monitor and see what's happening when this occurs.

 

Can somebody please recommend a compact sleep monitor that works. It has to allow you to take take trips to the bathroom without disconnecting any wires. The only reading I'm interested in is EEG, so it can be a neurofeedback device that you can wear to bed and it will record your data. So it can't be one of those user-friendly headsets which have all sorts of training apps and games, it has to be able to record and display actual raw data.



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#9 sub7

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:04 PM

You're describing something akin to hypnagogic hallucinations and the hypnagogic state that occurs during phase N1. Sleep deprivation, or in my case, more appropriately, "quality" sleep deprivation, is a well-studied and sure-fire trigger to induce this fun world of spacial hallucinations and non-REM dreaming. The phenomenon is quite common in narcolepsy, but also occurs in idiopathic hypersomnia and other disorders.

 

In my experience, falling asleep while under the influence of psychostimulant medication or caffeine is more likely to induce this state for me - sometimes for hours. I'm the complete opposite of you in that there is absolutely nothing restful or refreshing about this N1 "sleep."

 

Thank you very much

As I was mentioning in my original post, this does indeed sound very much like N1 sleep and that should be the least restful and refreshing sleep indeed.

Do you have any hypothesis as to why I may be experiencing a very deep state of rest while having the above experience?

two things come to mind, which may or may not hold any water at all

- this is actually not Phase 1 sleep, even though it looks very much like it upon cursory analysis

- it is Phase 1 and is precisely what I generally lack; hence it is very restful to me

 

cannot come up with much else; hope someone else can







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