10 replies to this topic

[NeuroGeneration]

I have found that my sleep suffers tremendously whenever I consume less calories than I've burned for the day (this is variable, based on the amount of exercise I've done). I get to bed by 11pm, wake up multiple times during the night, and am typically wide awake at 4am. I can fall in and out of sleep for the next 3 hours, but get out of bed exhausted at 7am, with a need to nap at around noon.

 

I have nearly perfect sleep hygiene, including infrared lights at night to simulate dusk, a white noise generator, complete darkness, etc. I'm a bit crazy when it comes to my sleep! ;-)

 

I've experimented by having my heaviest meal at the end of the day, not eating within a couple hours of bedtime, supplementing with melatonin, magnesium & glycine, etc. – but the only thing that seems to work is to eat a very large serving of sugar (honey) or starch (mochi) before bed. However, this is counter to my fitness & longevity goals, and actually makes me want to sleep for more than 8 hours.

 

Does anybody have other suggestions, or a scientific explanation for my issue? How can I go on a fast or caloric deficit for a day, without it significantly disturbing my sleep? Lifestyle, diet & supplement (but not pharmaceutical) advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Brett Black]

Maybe try sticking to a very strict timing pattern of meals throughout the day, this might help entrain your circadian rhythm and benefit sleep (highly speculative, admittedly.)

(By the way, what are these "infrared" lights you mentioned and how are they supposed to simulate dusk? Infrared is invisible and only perceptible as heat at some wavelengths.)

Edited by Brett Black, 14 August 2014 - 08:38 AM.

[Gerrans]

My advice is to reduce the amount of time you spend in bed. At this weight you may now be able to do with 6 to 7 hours. But allow yourself a few minutes nap if you need one, which might be a normal animal behaviour.

 

I suggest you set the alarm for a certain time and stick to it rigidly, and then you can go to bed earlier on days where you feel tired that evening. But rather than try to go straight to sleep, you could ease in with radio listening or whatever. All this should help reduce those unenjoyable passages of light and probably not very restorative sleep.

 

Obviously, you do not have a calorie deficit every day (if you do, that is dieting not caloric restriction), so you could try for reduced time in bed on days when you know you have consumed less than you have expended.

 

*

 

Personally, I find my sleep can get shallow when I am low on salt. This can happen to me if I have expended lots of energy, which disperses some salt and moisture in sweat, leaving one slightly dehydrated. A hot evening bath can unwittingly add to the sweat loss. Such circumstances sometimes trigger low blood pressure, which for me is associated with light, fitful, unsatisfying sleep. I have worked out that my body is probably nudging me to do something, such as swig a little salt and water. (I wonder if the reason you sleep better on the sugary stuff is that it provides an osmotic benefit to your system by helping to retain water? As does salt for me.)

Edited by Gerrans, 14 August 2014 - 10:11 AM.

[redFishBlueFish]

I have found that my sleep suffers tremendously whenever I consume less calories than I've burned for the day (this is variable, based on the amount of exercise I've done). I get to bed by 11pm, wake up multiple times during the night, and am typically wide awake at 4am. I can fall in and out of sleep for the next 3 hours, but get out of bed exhausted at 7am, with a need to nap at around noon.

 

I am curious, what are you eating? If you are doing any kind of CR, eating anything will not work.

Edited by redFishBlueFish, 16 August 2014 - 08:59 AM.

[bor]

My experience:

 

When I was not consciously on a calorie-restriction diet but I did not eat enough in the afternoon and evening and I went to bed hungry and with the feeling I am doing this in a bad way, I was also having trouble with sleep. 

 

In a later period, when I was consciously eating less, I felt I was eating less but I was not actually "hungry" or at least the hunger feeling did not bother me and I think it less affected my sleep. I believe, one solution is to have more physical or mental work during the day, so you actually need the sleep. 

[HealthyLiving]

I sleep fine when I am cutting calories.

 

You need to look very closely if you're also doing something else different than just cutting calories?

Also, make sure that you're getting all the nutrients that you need while you're on few calories (changing to more nutritious food, supplements).

 

Also, you can always improve your routine. For example, by trying a new supplement, food etc.

 

Try to have a sleep diary.

[NeuroGeneration]

HealthyLiving – What's you body fat % and activity level? I'm low bf (8%) & high activity (60-90 mins gym 5x /wk, 60 miles walked /wk, 15 miles run /wk), which I think impacts my body's response to caloric deprivation.

 

I eat a very strict, clean, paleo diet, so I'm getting plenty of nutrients via veggies, pasture raised eggs, wild seafood, raw goats milk kefir and grass fed organic meats. I also take a very well formulated multi.

 

I suspect it has something to do with cortisol levels – when I don't eat enough, my body quickly panics (because of the combination of low body fat % and high caloric expenditure), and goes into a mode of "stay awake until you find food". I realize I can be totally off with this – it's just a theory.

 

I *think* that if I do caloric restriction during the morning and day, then eat a large meal with carbs at night (yet, still calorically restricted for the day), I can sleep better. With that said, I need many more trials without confounding factors to be able to conclude this.

[bor]

NeuroGeneration - when you do not eat within several hours before bed, your body goes into the starvation mode. Blood glucose tends to fall, so adrenalin is released to break down glycogen in your liver to glucose. So, I believe it is adrenaline (it may additionally be cortisol) that makes you excited and prevents sleep. About the same happens when  you go to bed dehydrated: blood pressure tends to fall, so adrenaline is released to constrict arteries a bit to maintain the blood pressure.

Edited by bor, 11 September 2014 - 04:44 PM.

[ambivalent]

Hi all,

 

I've often wondered whether this effect is shared by others, although, I generate it through fasting and not explicitly CR. Bor's point resonates with my experience last week, when 2 and 3/4 days in to my dry fast: I was energised, struggling to sleep desipite feeling tired (and slept for four hours) and naturally having consumed no stimulants - so perhaps this was adrenalin. I've noticed waking up early during a fast before perhaps an hour or two but without the same struggle to get to sleep as was the case on this occasion. 

 

Without the depth of biolgical knowledge to call upon as many do here, I've been driven to a more simplistic theory: one can take a view of sleep being initiated by the body to complete a number of jobs, when the tasks are complete we wake up. Digestion is a process, as I understand, that takes up considerable resource. Without that burdensome task taking place during sleep, or at least much reduced, the body has more resources devoted to the other elements of the sleep cycle and as such gets the job done earlier, the sleeping process is more efficient - meaning we sleep less, awaken early.

 

I suppose we could test this out by consuming the same number of calories in a day but by altering when they are consumed (thus altering the amount of digestion-load while asleep) and noting the effects on sleep duration.

[Audioque]

Hi all,

 

I've often wondered whether this effect is shared by others, although, I generate it through fasting and not explicitly CR. Bor's point resonates with my experience last week, when 2 and 3/4 days in to my dry fast: I was energised, struggling to sleep desipite feeling tired (and slept for four hours) and naturally having consumed no stimulants - so perhaps this was adrenalin. I've noticed waking up early during a fast before perhaps an hour or two but without the same struggle to get to sleep as was the case on this occasion. 

 

Without the depth of biolgical knowledge to call upon as many do here, I've been driven to a more simplistic theory: one can take a view of sleep being initiated by the body to complete a number of jobs, when the tasks are complete we wake up. Digestion is a process, as I understand, that takes up considerable resource. Without that burdensome task taking place during sleep, or at least much reduced, the body has more resources devoted to the other elements of the sleep cycle and as such gets the job done earlier, the sleeping process is more efficient - meaning we sleep less, awaken early.

 

I suppose we could test this out by consuming the same number of calories in a day but by altering when they are consumed (thus altering the amount of digestion-load while asleep) and noting the effects on sleep duration.

 

I've been experiencing the same thing (sometimes in my sleep, my mind seems to be an oddly aware or wandering state) lately since I'm eating far lower than my quota for the past 2 months due to tight schedule and I'm also thinking along those lines. One of the functions of sleep is to help your brain clear out beta amyloid gunk that accumulates during the waking hours. Since CR reduces the beta amyloid plagues from forming, less need for sleep I guess?

Edited by Audioque, 01 February 2015 - 10:02 PM.

[ambivalent]

Not informative to this thread I'd have thought, but interesting nevertheless.

 

Health impact of fasting in Saudi Arabia during Ramadan: Association with disturbed circadian rhythm and metabolic and sleeping patterns:

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4014507/

Edited by ambivalent, 09 February 2015 - 02:40 AM.