21 replies to this topic

[The Ripper]

Has anyone ever heard of this before or care to evaluate it? It's made in Australia, non-prescription, however only sold to doctors. Whatever you call that. It's supposed to be designed to "support the Krebs cycle" and help with energy.

I've taken it for a bit and don't notice any difference. The usual amount to take is 3-4 per day, spread out across meals.

 

Looking into it I get the impression my diet and other supplements largely cover off on what's in it. I'd be interested and appreciative to get someone's take on it as both a supplement for energy and as a supplement for anti-ageing/longevity. I've been considering dropping this in order to free up funds to give MitoQ a try in its place. 

——> MitoLift (per pill)

R,S-alpha Lipoic Acid 50mg

Ubidecarenone (Coenzyme Q10) 50mg

Acetyl-L-Carnitine hydrochloride 50mg

Creatine monohydrate 100mg

Cysteine 50mg

d-alpha Tocopheryl acid succinate 10mg (equiv. Vitamin E      12IU)

Magnesium orotate 100mg 

equiv. Magnesium  6.6mg

Thiamine hydrochloride 15mg

Riboflavin 20mg

Nicotinamide 50mg

Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate 5mg 

equiv. Pyridoxine 3.5mg

Folic Acid 400mcg

Cyanocobalamin 400mcg

Biotin 1.5mcg

Zinc citrate 5mg equiv. Zinc 1.6mg

Phytomenadione (Vitamin K1) 50mcg

 

[niner]

I don't like it.  It's a kitchen sink-full of relatively old-school vitamins and supplements, variously under- and over-dosed.

Edited by niner, 17 August 2014 - 02:49 AM.

[Kalliste]

Yeah try MitoQ for a month. That seems a safer bet than a big bowl of multivitamins. I've never felt any effect from vitamins aside from D3 high dose at dark periods of the year. MitoQ was a blast though.

[The Ripper]

Yeah try MitoQ for a month. That seems a safer bet than a big bowl of multivitamins. I've never felt any effect from vitamins aside from D3 high dose at dark periods of the year. MitoQ was a blast though.

I agree with what you're saying. I'll definitely try MitoQ out. It's a bummer about the price but I guess they can charge what they want seeing as they discovered and patented it.

 

Do you think MitoQ would have much benefit on someone my age (early 20's)? Or is there always a benefit given its action as an antioxidant?

 

[Kalliste]

Read this and decide for yourself

 

 

Free radicals, and reactive oxygen species (ROS) in particular, play an important part in aging. These are (usually small) molecules lacking an electron needed for stability; they will steal an electron from the first thing they bump into. Like pulling a cog out from clockwork, stealing an electron from a protein or enzyme is usually not good for the finely-tuned biochemical machinery of our cells. The free radical might be rendered safe in the process, but it has left some form of chaos and damage in its wake.

Free radicals are sufficiently dangerous to biochemical machinery that some of our body's defenders use bursts of free radicals as a kill mechanism.

Scientists generally concur that accumulated damage throughout the body due to free radicals is one important root cause of age-related degeneration - but the devil is in the details. The vast, overwhelming majority of those free radicals are generated by your own metabolism as an unavoidable byproduct. The rate of free radical generation increases greatly with age as the basic mechanisms of your of metabolism are themselves damaged by the free radicals they created. This is not a one-step process, however. I'll try to walk through it at a high level, cribbing from the mitochondrial free radical theory of aging proposed by Aubrey de Grey and working its way into general acceptance...

https://www.fightagi...-damage-you.php

I won't quote the whole thing. Good reading.

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 14 August 2014 - 09:38 AM.

[The Ripper]

Update: I ended up buying MitoQ. I'm interested to see its effects (if any). If this is to be something I continue long-term I'll definitely need to find a way to source it at wholesale price.

Seeing as I also have C60 on its way in the mail I'm wondering about which is the best way to take them in order to gauge effectiveness. Perhaps I'll do a couple weeks of MitoQ, stop, then a couple weeks of C60, stop, then combine the two. Would there be any issues with this such as the need to stay on either substances longer to gain full effect?

Edited by The Ripper, 17 August 2014 - 01:58 AM.

[niner]

Seeing as I also have C60 on its way in the mail I'm wondering about which is the best way to take them in order to gauge effectiveness. Perhaps I'll do a couple weeks of MitoQ, stop, then a couple weeks of C60, stop, then combine the two. Would there be any issues with this such as the need to stay on either substances longer to gain full effect?

C60oo will stay in your body a lot longer than MitoQ. I don't know how long MitoQ will last, but if you need 10mg/day, then it will probably wash out relatively quickly. I'd allow for a couple week washout, meaning you take the MitoQ for however long you want, then stop and wait a couple weeks before starting c60oo. Keep us posted- this will be an interesting comparison. At any rate, definitely do the MQ first, c60oo second, and not the other way around. I don't think it takes very long to see most of the effects; a couple weeks should be fine. It would be helpful if you had a defined gym routine that you could use for evaluation. If you are healthy and relatively young, you might not "feel" much from these if you aren't doing some sort of exercise.

[The Ripper]

 

Seeing as I also have C60 on its way in the mail I'm wondering about which is the best way to take them in order to gauge effectiveness. Perhaps I'll do a couple weeks of MitoQ, stop, then a couple weeks of C60, stop, then combine the two. Would there be any issues with this such as the need to stay on either substances longer to gain full effect?

C60oo will stay in your body a lot longer than MitoQ. I don't know how long MitoQ will last, but if you need 10mg/day, then it will probably wash out relatively quickly. I'd allow for a couple week washout, meaning you take the MitoQ for however long you want, then stop and wait a couple weeks before starting c60oo. Keep us posted- this will be an interesting comparison. At any rate, definitely do the MQ first, c60oo second, and not the other way around. I don't think it takes very long to see most of the effects; a couple weeks should be fine. It would be helpful if you had a defined gym routine that you could use for evaluation. If you are healthy and relatively young, you might not "feel" much from these if you aren't doing some sort of exercise.

 

Yes well actually on the gym front: I just got the all clear to start lifting again after one operation. It's going to take a couple weeks to work out what my rep ranges and 1 rep maxes are. Once that has been done I'll start supplementing and see if there are any changes.

I already keep a detailed log of my gym sessions so this won't be hard to do.

Edited by The Ripper, 17 August 2014 - 02:54 AM.

[Kalliste]

Not getting cancer is a superpower

 

I'm going to go with MitoQ for a year or two, I have taken a bottle of C60 soon but still I'm a bit uneasy.

 

http://www.science20..._horizon-142136

 

 

Yet in their Cell Reports paper, the researchers identified protein tyrosine kinases Src and Pyk2, affecting mitochondria that overload the electron transport chain, leading to superoxide production. Learning that, they used a common research antioxidant, mitoTEMPO, to "scavenge" the mitochondrial superoxide and discovered that doing so blocked tumor cell migration and prevented spontaneous tumor metastasis in mouse and human tumor models.

In emails with senior author Professor Pierre Sonveaux, he said this could be the "Holy Grail" of metastatis research. To confirm the results and make them more relevant for potential human cancers, they also used MitoQ, because it has already gone through human clinical trials and so safety and dosing have been established. In both cases, Sonveaux said "targeting mitochondrial superoxide with inactivators such as mitoTEMPO and MitoQ, repressed metastatic progenitor cells and no metastasis was able to develop."

 

[The Ripper]

Are you getting yours at wholesale? And do you plan on trying their cosmetic serum too? It's pretty expensive so I was considering just formulating a similar one on my own using PQQ. By on my own I mean with the help of a dermatologist I know :P

It'd be really cool if we had a doctor on the forum who could sign up for it and sell us MitoQ at near-wholesale pricing + shipping. 

[Kalliste]

I got the serum and a bottle of pills for free. My gf appreciated the serum but was unable to see any clear effects compared to other expensive beauty creams. We both tried the pills and gave some to my relative and that was better. I got a real boost at a couple of times from the pill. Bought it for normal price.

[The Ripper]

How did you manage to get it for free? 

The serum I doubt would have any effect on someone who's young. The main benefit however is that the MitoQ, as a mitochondria-targetted antioxidant, will provide protection against the damages of IR - something sunscreen doesn't do. Even though Infrared doesn't cause nearly the same level of damage as say UV, if one has the money it would be worth using imo.

That's why I either want to buy some or consider formulating something similar based on PQQ.

[The Ripper]

Should add too, that if she regularly uses expensive beauty creams as you put it, many of these have make-up effects whereby they'll plump the skin up. But aren't actually doing much in the way of skin rejuvenation or protection. When I had a look at MitoQ last it didn't appear it was that type of product. As such it wouldn't surprise me if the visible effects weren't at that same level, however long-term MitoQ would undoubtedly be the better choice.

[Kalliste]

It was an early offer that is no longer valid. Now I buy MitoQ like anyone else to the same price.

I suspect the serum would be the better choice in the long run, but I feel a lot less sure about it than I feel about using it in the pill form.

I agree about the beauty creams comments, most of them are a sham and it's sad that the industry doesn't fund SENS instead of tossing those multibillion dollars at fat/moisture/botox-trickery.

Hopefully SkQ1 will become available soon, I'd love to try that.

[The Ripper]

That's interesting. I'd never heard of SkQ1 before. It appears to be another mitochondria-targetted antioxidant. Is there anything special about it compared to MitoQ? Will it be patented by anyone? I hope not!

[Kalliste]

It will probably be patented.

If you feel risky go for C60. We have an entire subforum for that. It might be a really good mitochondrial antioxidant.

[niner]

The main benefit however is that the MitoQ, as a mitochondria-targetted antioxidant, will provide protection against the damages of IR - something sunscreen doesn't do. Even though Infrared doesn't cause nearly the same level of damage as say UV, if one has the money it would be worth using imo.

What makes you think the IR portion of sunlight damages skin?

[The Ripper]

 

The main benefit however is that the MitoQ, as a mitochondria-targetted antioxidant, will provide protection against the damages of IR - something sunscreen doesn't do. Even though Infrared doesn't cause nearly the same level of damage as say UV, if one has the money it would be worth using imo.

What makes you think the IR portion of sunlight damages skin?

 

http://www.smartskin...skin-aging.html

This explains it pretty well, albeit unsourced. I can find the studies discussing this if you like. I remember reading them a while back.

Edit: I found this one study on my computer that discusses it. I spoke with one of the people who actually wrote this. It pertains to sunscreens in particular, however does mention how IR is damaging:

Title: Radical Protection by Sunscreens in the Infrared Spectral Range

ABSTRACT

One essential reason for skin ageing is the formation of free radicals by excessive or unprotected sun exposure. Recently, free radical generation in skin has been shown to appear not only after irradiation in the UV wavelength range but also in the infrared (IR) spectral range. Sunscreens are known to protect against radicals generated by UV radiation; however, no data exist for those generated by IR radiation. This paper has investigated four different, commercially available sunscreens and one COLIPA standard with regard to radical formation in the skin after IR irradiation, using electron paramagnetic resonance spectroscopy. The use of sunscreens has led to reduced amounts of radicals compared to untreated skin. Furthermore, absorption and scattering properties and the radical protection factor of the formulations were determined to investigate their influence on the radical protection of the skin. None of these formulations contained an optical absorber in the IR range. The protection efficiency of the sunscreens was shown as being induced by the high scattering properties of the sunscreens, as well as the antioxidants contained in the formulations. 

It will probably be patented.

If you feel risky go for C60. We have an entire subforum for that. It might be a really good mitochondrial antioxidant.

One step ahead of you 

Edited by The Ripper, 21 August 2014 - 02:23 PM.

[Kalliste]

If you are on C60 already, what makes you look at MitoQ?

 

 

[The Ripper]

I am not on C60 just yet. I have ordered both C60 and MitoQ so that I can trial and compare them.

[Kalliste]

Start off with MitoQ, that one will leave you a lot faster.

Later start with C60 and see if they give the same effects.

If you go C60 first that might be with you and confuse you for some time to come.

MitoQ also seems to be the safer bet, go for it first if you are young.

[The Ripper]

Exactly what Niner advised me to do

Thanks for the advice anyway. I'll let you know how it goes