• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

anyone use oxiracetam to hack sleep?

sleep

  • Please log in to reply
7 replies to this topic

#1 redFishBlueFish

  • Guest
  • 186 posts
  • 218
  • Location:USA

Posted 27 August 2014 - 05:01 PM


I am curious if anyone has used oxiracetam and phylracetam to stay up for an extended period of time. Ive met people that stay up for a week at a time and then sleep a day. Thoughts?
  • Dangerous, Irresponsible x 2

#2 Geoffrey

  • Guest
  • 218 posts
  • 38
  • Location:UK

Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:06 AM

You'd be better off using modafinil or r-modafinil for this. Phenylpiracetam does have stimulant effect, but if you're already feeling sleepy it doesn't suddenly banish tiredness. As for oxi, I find it's inconsistent and sometimes makes me sleepy as heck.

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 FW900

  • Guest
  • 341 posts
  • 131
  • Location:VMAT2
  • NO

Posted 04 September 2014 - 01:30 AM

Phenylpiracetam or oxiracetam doesn't keep me awake. I can nap on the stuff very easily. I'd rate it as being slightly better than caffeine in terms of being a stimulant.

 

Just because some of the people you've met are able to manage sleep deprivation does not mean you should. Sleep deprivation is one of the most anti-nootropic things you can do. Recent research has demonstrated that sleep plays a crucial role in memory consolidation. Sleep deprivation in conjunction with stimulants is a terrible idea.

 

Why do you think the brain scans of amphetamine addicts are so pronounced compared to rodents given a small amount or the limited scans of living people taking therapeutic dosages? It's more than just the absurd amount of the drug, it's sleep deprivation. Being sleep deprived prevents the body's repair process that occurs during sleep. There is also evidence that toxins are cleansed from the brain during stage IV sleep. The studies are vague, and the toxins are somewhat random but I would imagine that sleep would also aid in lowering DOPAC concentrations and other potentially damaging metabolites produced naturally within the brain. If you stop this process (sleep) there are going to be far-reaching consequences.

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3498579/

 

Deconstructing and Reconstructing Cognitive Performance in Sleep Deprivation

The deleterious effects of sleep deprivation on cognitive performance appear to emerge from interaction between the task environment and specific degradations in components of cognitive functioning.72,73,115 The moment-to-moment variability associated with these degradations and the dynamic nature of most task environments make this interaction complex, resulting in sleep-deprived operational task performance where errors and accidents tend to be rare but their consequences may be severe.116

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3433285/

Evidence that Sleep Deprivation Downregulates Dopamine D2R in Ventral Striatum in the Human Brain

Dopamine D2 receptors are involved with wakefulness but their role in the decreased alertness associated with sleep deprivation is unclear. We had shown that sleep deprivation reduced dopamine D2/D3 receptor availability (measured with PET and [11C]raclopride in controls) in striatum, but could not determine if this reflected dopamine increases ([11C]raclopride competes with dopamine for D2/D3 receptor binding) or receptor downregulation. To clarify this, we compared the dopamine increases induced by methylphenidate (drug that increases dopamine by blocking dopamine transporters), during sleep deprivation versus rested-sleep with the assumption that methylphenidate’s effects would be greater, if indeed, dopamine release was increased during sleep deprivation. We scanned 20 controls with [11C]raclopride after rested-sleep and after one night of sleep deprivation; both after placebo and after methylphenidate. We corroborated a decrease in D2/D3 receptor availability in the ventral striatum with sleep deprivation (compared to rested-sleep) that was associated with reduced alertness and increased sleepiness. However, the dopamine increases induced by methylphenidate (measured as decreases in D2/D3 receptor availability compared to placebo) did not differ between rested-sleep and sleep deprivation and were associated with the increased alertness and reduced sleepiness when methylphenidate was administered after sleep deprivation. Similar findings were obtained by microdialysis in rodents subjected to one night of paradoxical sleep deprivation. These findings are consistent with a downregulation of D2/D3 receptors in ventral striatum with sleep deprivation that may contribute to the associated decreased wakefulness and also corroborate an enhancement of D2 receptor signaling in the arousing effects of methylphenidate in humans.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2656292/ Sleep deprivation: Impact on cognitive performance

Today, prolonged wakefulness is a widespread phenomenon. Nevertheless, in the field of sleep and wakefulness, several unanswered questions remain. Prolonged wakefulness can be due to acute total sleep deprivation (SD) or to chronic partial sleep restriction. Although the latter is more common in everyday life, the effects of total SD have been examined more thoroughly. Both total and partial SD induce adverse changes in cognitive performance. First and foremost, total SD impairs attention and working memory, but it also affects other functions, such as long-term memory and decision-making. Partial SD is found to influence attention, especially vigilance. Studies on its effects on more demanding cognitive functions are lacking. Coping with SD depends on several factors, especially aging and gender. Also interindividual differences in responses are substantial. In addition to coping with SD, recovering from it also deserves attention. Cognitive recovery processes, although insufficiently studied, seem to be more demanding in partial sleep restriction than in total SD.

 

 

Honestly, I also know people like operate on this little sleep, but they aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer; they can't recall peoples names, are bad at conversing and frankly are dull. And what do they accomplish with all this lack of sleep? Nothing. Even people I've known who've used stimulants to study for "two days straight", didn't do so well on their exams.

 

A better question to ask is how can I operate on less sleep? I have thought about the question many of times myself. Sodium oxybate (aka, Xyrem, a GHB salt) would be ideal for this situation. Although I have never personally used it, most users report feeling "refreshed" after a mere 4 hours of sleep. This is because it induces stage IV sleep and there is a rebound effect after-use from the GABA-b complex and GHB receptors being agonized. It's so effective that it diminishes the excessive daytime sleepiness for a large percentage of narcoleptics using it. A modified sleep schedule (segmented, possibly sodium oxybate induced 4-hours twice daily) paired with a stimulant would likely be ideal for productivity and needing to accomplished tasks in a limited period of time.

 

Sodium oxybate/ Xyrem/ GHB is neurotoxic, especially in low dosages. Personally, I recommend avoiding Xyrem as much as I would recommend avoiding sleep deprivation. This being said, sodium oxybate likely is much better for you and more sustainable than" staying up a week and sleeping for a day".



#4 redFishBlueFish

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 186 posts
  • 218
  • Location:USA

Posted 04 September 2014 - 05:50 AM

You'd be better off using modafinil or r-modafinil for this. Phenylpiracetam does have stimulant effect, but if you're already feeling sleepy it doesn't suddenly banish tiredness. As for oxi, I find it's inconsistent and sometimes makes me sleepy as heck.


I've already tried modafinil to hack sleep. It doesn't work. I've tried adding nicotine and modifinil, nothing. I am one of those non
responders to modafinil. This is what I was afraid of. I saw many posts of being "wired" on phenyl and oxi, I thought I could get away with using it for a while. I saw half life on oxi is nearly for 6 hours, but I saw phenyl had a bad crash side effect after the period of time. I don't have the kind of money to experiment in this kind of way, so I am stuck asking questions here.
 

Phenylpiracetam or oxiracetam doesn't keep me awake. I can nap on the stuff very easily. I'd rate it as being slightly better than caffeine in terms of being a stimulant.
 
Just because some of the people you've met are able to manage sleep deprivation does not mean you should. Sleep deprivation is one of the most anti-nootropic things you can do. Recent research has demonstrated that sleep plays a crucial role in memory consolidation. Sleep deprivation in conjunction with stimulants is a terrible idea.
 
Why do you think the brain scans of amphetamine addicts are so pronounced compared to rodents given a small amount or the limited scans of living people taking therapeutic dosages? It's more than just the absurd amount of the drug, it's sleep deprivation. Being sleep deprived prevents the body's repair process that occurs during sleep. There is also evidence that toxins are cleansed from the brain during stage IV sleep. The studies are vague, and the toxins are somewhat random but I would imagine that sleep would also aid in lowering DOPAC concentrations and other potentially damaging metabolites produced naturally within the brain. If you stop this process (sleep) there are going to be far-reaching consequences.
 
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3498579/

Deconstructing and Reconstructing Cognitive Performance in Sleep Deprivation
The deleterious effects of sleep deprivation on cognitive performance appear to emerge from interaction between the task environment and specific degradations in components of cognitive functioning.72,73,115 The moment-to-moment variability associated with these degradations and the dynamic nature of most task environments make this interaction complex, resulting in sleep-deprived operational task performance where errors and accidents tend to be rare but their consequences may be severe.116

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3433285/
Evidence that Sleep Deprivation Downregulates Dopamine D2R in Ventral Striatum in the Human Brain

Dopamine D2 receptors are involved with wakefulness but their role in the decreased alertness associated with sleep deprivation is unclear. We had shown that sleep deprivation reduced dopamine D2/D3 receptor availability (measured with PET and [11C]raclopride in controls) in striatum, but could not determine if this reflected dopamine increases ([11C]raclopride competes with dopamine for D2/D3 receptor binding) or receptor downregulation. To clarify this, we compared the dopamine increases induced by methylphenidate (drug that increases dopamine by blocking dopamine transporters), during sleep deprivation versus rested-sleep with the assumption that methylphenidate’s effects would be greater, if indeed, dopamine release was increased during sleep deprivation. We scanned 20 controls with [11C]raclopride after rested-sleep and after one night of sleep deprivation; both after placebo and after methylphenidate. We corroborated a decrease in D2/D3 receptor availability in the ventral striatum with sleep deprivation (compared to rested-sleep) that was associated with reduced alertness and increased sleepiness. However, the dopamine increases induced by methylphenidate (measured as decreases in D2/D3 receptor availability compared to placebo) did not differ between rested-sleep and sleep deprivation and were associated with the increased alertness and reduced sleepiness when methylphenidate was administered after sleep deprivation. Similar findings were obtained by microdialysis in rodents subjected to one night of paradoxical sleep deprivation. These findings are consistent with a downregulation of D2/D3 receptors in ventral striatum with sleep deprivation that may contribute to the associated decreased wakefulness and also corroborate an enhancement of D2 receptor signaling in the arousing effects of methylphenidate in humans.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2656292/ Sleep deprivation: Impact on cognitive performance

Today, prolonged wakefulness is a widespread phenomenon. Nevertheless, in the field of sleep and wakefulness, several unanswered questions remain. Prolonged wakefulness can be due to acute total sleep deprivation (SD) or to chronic partial sleep restriction. Although the latter is more common in everyday life, the effects of total SD have been examined more thoroughly. Both total and partial SD induce adverse changes in cognitive performance. First and foremost, total SD impairs attention and working memory, but it also affects other functions, such as long-term memory and decision-making. Partial SD is found to influence attention, especially vigilance. Studies on its effects on more demanding cognitive functions are lacking. Coping with SD depends on several factors, especially aging and gender. Also interindividual differences in responses are substantial. In addition to coping with SD, recovering from it also deserves attention. Cognitive recovery processes, although insufficiently studied, seem to be more demanding in partial sleep restriction than in total SD.

 
 
Honestly, I also know people like operate on this little sleep, but they aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer; they can't recall peoples names, are bad at conversing and frankly are dull. And what do they accomplish with all this lack of sleep? Nothing. Even people I've known who've used stimulants to study for "two days straight", didn't do so well on their exams.
 
A better question to ask is how can I operate on less sleep? I have thought about the question many of times myself. Sodium oxybate (aka, Xyrem, a GHB salt) would be ideal for this situation. Although I have never personally used it, most users report feeling "refreshed" after a mere 4 hours of sleep. This is because it induces stage IV sleep and there is a rebound effect after-use from the GABA-b complex and GHB receptors being agonized. It's so effective that it diminishes the excessive daytime sleepiness for a large percentage of narcoleptics using it. A modified sleep schedule (segmented, possibly sodium oxybate induced 4-hours twice daily) paired with a stimulant would likely be ideal for productivity and needing to accomplished tasks in a limited period of time.
 
Sodium oxybate/ Xyrem/ GHB is neurotoxic, especially in low dosages. Personally, I recommend avoiding Xyrem as much as I would recommend avoiding sleep deprivation. This being said, sodium oxybate likely is much better for you and more sustainable than" staying up a week and sleeping for a day".

 

Unless I was doing some big research project that would change the world I would never do such a thing for educational pursuits. No, I am doing this for financial reasons. I am a polyphasic sleeper and run on 2 to 4 hours of sleep every day, sometimes every other day. The whole concern about brain toxins and "zombie-like" operation isn't how I function. I run BETTER on less sleep, than 6 to 8 hours, and less physical issues. Physical issues being really bad eczema. Also underlining ADD issues. I might be a bit goofy when I go to sleep, but you shouldn't be talking to me when I am sleeping. I am "zombie-like" when I sleep for 6 to 8 hours a day. But this thread isn't about convincing others to stay awake for long periods of time, this is me trying to find a solution to a problem. I can easily stay awake on 2 hours when I have 1 period of time sitting and another period of time moving. I can't have both of the same type in a 24 hour period and this is where the idea of this thread came along.

 

I don't need to assistance in trying to get to any level of sleep. I say this because I don't have issues falling asleep. When I need to take my nap or sleep, I do my normal shut down procedures and I am out. 

 

Thank you both for spending the time to reply to my thread, but it looks like I have to do this the hard way.

 

 


Edited by redFishBlueFish, 04 September 2014 - 06:08 AM.


#5 ModaMinds

  • Guest
  • 83 posts
  • 8
  • Location:USA

Posted 08 September 2014 - 04:51 AM

Not a fan of sleep hacking at all. Your body goes through four stages of sleep. The first two stages are light sleep, which you've probably experienced as you start to doze off but are still somewhat conscious. One of the most important is the third (and a fourth, but lumping them into just stage three for simplicity) stage of sleep, or deep sleep, when your brain repairs your body and mind. The fourth is REM or your dream state. The third stage is arguably the most important stage, and REM is when chemicals such as serotonin are replenished so it's very important as well. You experience more deep sleep in the earlier hours ot sleep, then more REM towards the end of your sleep.

 

When you deprive yourself of sleep, the sleep cycle changes. By shortening your sleep overall, you will get less REM sleep since the longer periods of REM occur towards the end of your night (or morning). However, you also force your body to cut down on deep sleep and use more REM sleep. When you are sleep deprived or sleep less than you should, you may go directly to REM sleep or at least greatly shorten the other stages of sleep. And while REM is important, if you force your body to go straight to REM sleep, you skip the stages that repair the mind and body.

 

While you be up longer, this overall reduces your stamina, causes depression, and increases fatigue. Staying up for a week at a team as you mentioned can have drastic side effects, as well. Hallucinations and psychosis can set in as early as less than a full day awake. After about 19 hours awake, then 4 hours of sleeping, and another 18 hours awake I began having tactile hallucinations. That's note even a full day awake and very small amounts of sleep. After a week, these hallucinations can be audible and visual, putting you and people around you in danger.



#6 redFishBlueFish

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 186 posts
  • 218
  • Location:USA

Posted 08 September 2014 - 09:22 PM

Are you speaking from experience Moda? While I haven't completely experimented with under sleeping beyond polyphasic, I have experimented with oversleeping. I have overslept for 12 years. The exact effects you describe in your last paragraph is how oversleeping is as well. The weird thing beyond the hallucinations is the weird déjà vu symptoms. I would dream of something and it would come true. Then the whole feeling of I have done this before comes with it. I could describe in exact detail of the dream I had of whatever scene I was in. The other goofy part about it was when I forced myself to write out the dream, I would get a migraine for the entire day.The last problem is it goes away the older you get. The depression is more long term with oversleep while under is short term.

Back to the topic of staying up. I do have fatigue in my eyes, but not body. Decreased stamina and depression do not exist, but let me make a side note about that. If I stayed up for 24 hours straight, like I commonly do, I feel no depression. If I were to go home and sleep for 5 minutes after staying awake for 24 hours, then I would be depressed. But I slept for an hour or more I am fine, with a max of 2 hours. Though at the same time, it is most likely my current situation that is triggering the depression more than lack of sleep.

What you described in majority of your post is well documented and common practice in the US military to make soldiers have 32 hour shifts. I have spoken with veterans that speak of seeing flying pigs. Not real ones with wings, but the cartoon types.

After thinking about it, the biggest thing holding me back is eye fatigue. I am not depressed, sluggish, not losing hair, skin,mind, body. My eyes are the weakest link in my entire body. Caffeine, not from coffee, does help a lot, but also staying out of sleep debt does too.

Edited by redFishBlueFish, 08 September 2014 - 09:24 PM.


#7 ModaMinds

  • Guest
  • 83 posts
  • 8
  • Location:USA

Posted 09 September 2014 - 01:37 AM

Are you speaking from experience Moda? While I haven't completely experimented with under sleeping beyond polyphasic, I have experimented with oversleeping. I have overslept for 12 years. The exact effects you describe in your last paragraph is how oversleeping is as well. The weird thing beyond the hallucinations is the weird déjà vu symptoms. I would dream of something and it would come true. Then the whole feeling of I have done this before comes with it. I could describe in exact detail of the dream I had of whatever scene I was in. The other goofy part about it was when I forced myself to write out the dream, I would get a migraine for the entire day.The last problem is it goes away the older you get. The depression is more long term with oversleep while under is short term.

Back to the topic of staying up. I do have fatigue in my eyes, but not body. Decreased stamina and depression do not exist, but let me make a side note about that. If I stayed up for 24 hours straight, like I commonly do, I feel no depression. If I were to go home and sleep for 5 minutes after staying awake for 24 hours, then I would be depressed. But I slept for an hour or more I am fine, with a max of 2 hours. Though at the same time, it is most likely my current situation that is triggering the depression more than lack of sleep.

What you described in majority of your post is well documented and common practice in the US military to make soldiers have 32 hour shifts. I have spoken with veterans that speak of seeing flying pigs. Not real ones with wings, but the cartoon types.

After thinking about it, the biggest thing holding me back is eye fatigue. I am not depressed, sluggish, not losing hair, skin,mind, body. My eyes are the weakest link in my entire body. Caffeine, not from coffee, does help a lot, but also staying out of sleep debt does too.

 

I've experienced going straight to REM while still semi-conscious to the point where the vision of my dreams overlapped my actual vision and my eyes moved uncontrollably, as well as tactile hallucinations that significantly hindered me falling asleep when I did actually want to sleep at the end of a sleep-deprivation session.



sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#8 redFishBlueFish

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 186 posts
  • 218
  • Location:USA

Posted 09 September 2014 - 01:42 AM

Thanks Moda





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: sleep

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users