4 replies to this topic

[Shane Minor]

Hello all,

 

​It has been awhile since I've talked about Nootropics, mainly because the Mr Happy Stack didn't work out to my benefit the way that I intended it to. You could say that I was a little mortified to have spent so much money on something with months of guided research. I had a lot of confidence going into the stack that I personally crafted for maximum benefit, and like most Nootropics I've taken, the results were sadly not as good as I anticipated.

 

         That being said, I have trialed many nootropic(s), and for people interested in taking nootropic stacks I hope you find this article as insightful as you should before considering taking anything from online pharmacies, or other nootropic vendors. 

 

First thing is first, I want to to elaborate on Choline transmission, and its roles in the human brain....

 

Most Choline Precursors like CDP-Choline (Citicoline), Choline Bitartrate, and Alpha GPC help deliver larger quantities of Choline in the brain in order to insure there isn't any Choline depletion when taking a Racetam like Piracetam. Many people report getting headaches on Piracetam, and report dissipation after taking an extra source of Choline. Although the exact mechanism of Piracetam is fairly inconclusive, it has been studied with many years of clinical research providing evidence that it can potentially help with memory-- further more, lets call this Memory Induced Learning since Piracetam is marketed off as a Nootropic...

 

Choline has been directly related to neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's and Dementia.. Which is why acetylcholinesterase inhibitors are used for the treatment of Alzheimer's patients- rather than a cure... However, being that the exact causes of diseases like Alzheimer's are still being investigated, something we should really pay attention to is the fact that a good memory, does not equal high Intelligence. In fact, as we look into this myth we will understand more thoroughly the undeniably bad sales pitches even good memory enhancers like Huperzine-A and Phosphatidylserine are handed out by online nootropic dispensers looking to get a little extra money in their pocket.

 

IQ is directly related to fluid intelligence, and one thing we know for certain about fluid intelligence is the areas of the brain being used during problem solving.. This is known as the executive network, where areas such as the prefrontal cortex are operating. Instead of having to do with memory, it has to so with ones ability to solve problems, and find solutions at best. Usually, a good memory does not make someone more intelligent, but for the sole purpose of allowing you to recall information, it certainly would help utilize your intelligence more efficiently. 

 

So a good memory is a necessary aid for intelligent people, not really much of correlation.. which is why Alzheimer's can affect anyone, even medical physicians....

 

However, we do know this--- a process known as Neurogenesis increases the size of the hippocampus, even as adults. Although this might not make us more intelligent, it would definitely help us retain the information that we've learned.... Right now, to fully take advantage of neurogenesis i'm not going to ask you to take a pill, in fact this method will cost you no money.... EXERCISE!!!

 

In fact, not just exercise... but environmental enrichment drastically increases the size of of the hippocampus, allowing the brain to have more memories, and retain more information.... environmental enrichment does this through a process known as synaptogenesis, where more stimulating environments, say a rock concert will enhance capillary vasculation, thus providing the neurons with extra energy. This causes the neuropil to expand, which thickens the cortex. In layman terms, this helps for better neurogenesis.   

 

More information on how exercise and Environmental enrichment increases the size of the Hippocampus. 

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/16411242 

 

 

The purpose of this article was not to lure you into buying more nootropics, rather to make you more aware of the alternatives to taking them, where actual exercise has been proven to be more beneficial than taking these advertised supplements....

 

Here is a list of Nootropic supplements that I've wasted money on, those that promise to give you memory enhancements... tisk tisk

 

Piracetam

Ashwagandha

Bacopa Monnieri 

​Uridine 5' monophosphate disodium salt

CDP-Choline

Choline Bitartrate 

Phosphatidylserine --> [This actually helps] Not that significantly though.

 

Lots of interesting supplements, with many interesting reviews, great sales pitches, and horrible results...

 

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I will be buying some more supplements.. preferably dopamine precursors like L-Phenylalanie with some added vitamin B6... I also plan on tweaking the Ciltep Stack so that I can get it to do what it is supposed to do, as I'm a big fan of Long Term Potentiation.....I would also like to add, if people are interested in taking Ciltep--- I'm not sharing exactly how I plan on modifying this stack, but do not take Ciltep with Caffeine.... Caffeine inhibits the effects of Forskolin Stimulated Cylic AMP.... you have that in addition to artichoke not being that good of a PDE4 Inhibitor, completely destroying the acclaimed purpose of Ciltep.... So, they added ALCAR to give that energy, but if you still don't get enough from that I recommend you do some research, and find another way to keep out the drowsiness associated with Forskolin.... 

 

Here I'll provide a study on caffeine disrupting the effects of Forskolin providing more cAMP.. 

 

http://www.sciencedi...1429999090231T 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this Article.... If my upcoming stacks work out for me, I'll be glad to share them with you but until then, I do not plan on doing so.....

 

 

 

The best of luck,

 

~ Shane

 

 

 

 

[Bateau]

You lost me when you "tisk"ed Bacopa.

 

If you've done months of guided research I have no idea why you would ever stop taking or belittle bacopa, barring random negative side-effects. Also Ashwagandha is generally not considered a cognitive enhancer. Anxiolytic and good for the brain, but not a memory booster, so that one is kinda on you.

 

Here's 9 different double-blinded, randomized, placebo-controlled, peer-reviewed trials that show memory enhancement in healthy humans from taking bacopa. There's no other nootropic in the world with half the evidence bacopa has behind it.

 

Little research exists in humans concerning the anxiolytic, antidepressant, sedative, and adaptogenic actions the traditional Ayurvedic medicine Bacopa monnieri (BM) possesses in addition to its documented cognitive-enhancing effects. Preclinical work has identified a number of acute anxiolytic, nootropic, and adaptogenic effects of BM that may also co-occur in humans. The current double-blind, placebo-controlled cross-over study assessed the acute effects of a specific extract of BM (KeenMind® - CDRI 08) in normal healthy participants during completion of a multitasking framework (MTF). Seventeen healthy volunteers completed the MTF, at baseline, then 1 h and 2 h after consuming a placebo, 320 mg BM and 640 mg of BM. Treatments were separated by a 7-day washout with order determined by Latin Square. Outcome measures included cognitive outcomes from the MTF, with mood and salivary cortisol measured before and after each completion of the MTF. Change from baseline scores indicated positive cognitive effects, notably at both 1 h post and 2 h post BM consumption on the Letter Search and Stroop tasks, suggesting an earlier nootropic effect of BM than previously investigated. There were also some positive mood effects and reduction in cortisol levels, pointing to a physiological mechanism for stress reduction associated with BM consumption. It was concluded that acute BM supplementation produced some adaptogenic and nootropic effects that need to be replicated in a larger sample and in isolation from stressful cognitive tests in order to quantify the magnitude of these effects. The study was registered with the Australian and New Zealand Clinical Trials Registry (ACTRN12612000834853).

→ source (external link)

 

Standardized extracts of the traditional Ayurvedic medicine Bacopa monnieri (BM) (Brahmi) have been recently shown to have cognitive enhancing effects in chronic administration studies. Pre-clinical work has also identified a number of acute anxiolytic, nootropic, and cardiovascular effects of BM. There has, however, been little research on the acute effects of BM on cognitive function. The current study aimed to assess the acute effects of a specific extract of BM (KeenMind®-CDRI 08) in a double-blind, placebo-controlled study in normal healthy participants who completed a cognitively demanding series of tests. Twenty-four healthy volunteers completed six repetitions of the Cognitive Demand Battery (CDB) after consuming a placebo, 320 mg BM or 640 mg of BM in a cross-over design and provided cardiovascular and mood assessments before and after treatment. Change from baseline scores indicated that the 320 mg dose of BM improved performance at the first, second, and fourth repetition post-dosing on the CDB, and the treatments had no effect upon cardiovascular activity or in attenuating task-induced ratings of stress and fatigue. It was concluded that assessment of an earlier pharmacological window and use of less memory-specific cognitive tests together with more temporally sensitive measures of brain activity may improve our understanding of the acute neurocognitive properties of BM.

→ source (external link)

 

SBME significantly reduced the subtests scores of ADHD symptoms, except for social problems. The symptom scores for restlessness were reduced in 93% of children, whereas improvement in self-control was observed in 89% of the children. The attention-deficit symptoms were reduced in 85% of children. Similarly, symptom scores for learning problems, impulsivity, and psychiatric problems were reduced for 78%, 67%, and 52% of children, respectively. It was observed that 74% of the children exhibited up to a 20% reduction, while 26% of children showed between a 21% and a 50% reduction in the total subtests scores.

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While Ayurvedic medicine has touted the cognitive enhancing effects of Bacopa monniera for centuries, there is a need for double-blind placebo-controlled investigations. One hundred and seven healthy participants were recruited for this double-blind placebo-controlled independent group design investigation. Sixty-two participants completed the study with 80% treatment compliance. Neuropsychological testing using the Cognitive Drug Research cognitive assessment system was conducted at baseline and after 90 days of treatment with a special extract of Bacopa monniera (2 x 150 mg KeenMind) or placebo. The Bacopa monniera product significantly improved performance on the 'Working Memory' factor, more specifically spatial working memory accuracy. The number of false-positives recorded in the Rapid visual information processing task was also reduced for the Bacopa monniera group following the treatment period. The current study provides support for the two other published studies reporting cognitive enhancing effects in healthy humans after a 90 day administration of the Bacopa monniera extract. Further studies are required to ascertain the effective dosage range, the time required to attain therapeutic levels and the effects over a longer term of administration.

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A double-blind, placebo-controlled randomized study design was employed. The subjects received either 125 mg of SBME or placebo twice a day for a period of 12 weeks followed by a placebo period of another 4 weeks (total duration of the trial 16 weeks). Each subject was evaluated for cognition on a battery of tests comprising mental control, logical memory, digit forward, digit backward, visual reproduction and paired associate learning... SBME produced significant improvement on mental control, logical memory and paired associated learning during the 12-week drug therapy.

→ source (external link)

 

The study was a double-blind placebo-controlled independent-group design in which subjects were randomly allocated to one of two treatment conditions, B. monniera (300 mg) or placebo. Neuropsychological testing was conducted pre-(baseline) and at 5 and 12 weeks post drug administration... B. monniera significantly improved speed of visual information processing measured by the IT task, learning rate and memory consolidation measured by the AVLT (P<0.05), and state anxiety (P<0.001) compared to placebo, with maximal effects evident after 12 weeks.

→ source (external link)

 

One hundred and thirty-six (136) subjects volunteered; 103 met entry criteria, 98 commenced, and 81 completed the trial. Bacopa significantly improved verbal learning, memory acquisition, and delayed recall as measured by the AVLT: trial a4 (p = 0.000), trial a5 (p = 0.016); trial a6 (p = 0.000); trial a7 (delayed recall) (p = 0.001); total learning (p = 0.011); and retroactive interference (p = 0.048). CFT, MAC-Q, and TMT scores improved but group differences were not significant. Bacopa versus placebo caused gastrointestinal tract (GIT) side-effects.

→ source (external link)

 

Controlling for baseline cognitive deficit using the Blessed Orientation-Memory-Concentration test, Bacopa participants had enhanced AVLT delayed word recall memory scores relative to placebo. Stroop results were similarly significant, with the Bacopa group improving and the placebo group unchanged. CESD-10 depression scores, combined state plus trait anxiety scores, and heart rate decreased over time for the Bacopa group but increased for the placebo group. No effects were found on the DAT, WAIS digit task, mood, or blood pressure. The dose was well tolerated with few adverse events (Bacopa n = 9, placebo n = 10), primarily stomach upset.

→ source (external link)

 

A study is reported on the effects of Brahmi (Bacopa monniera) on human memory. Seventy-six adults aged between 40 and 65 years took part in a double-blind randomized, placebo control study in which various memory functions were tested and levels of anxiety measured. There were three testing sessions: one prior to the trial, one after three months on the trial, and one six weeks after the completion of the trial. The results show a significant effect of the Brahmi on a test for the retention of new information. Follow-up tests showed that the rate of learning was unaffected, suggesting that Brahmi decreases the rate of forgetting of newly acquired information. Tasks assessing attention, verbal and visual short-term memory and the retrieval of pre-experimental knowledge were unaffected. Questionnaire measures of everyday memory function and anxiety levels were also unaffected.

→ source (external link)

Edited by Bateau, 01 September 2014 - 01:35 AM.

[Bateau]

Also there's nothing unique behind the mechanisms of Ciltep. Literally everything that phosphorylates CREB in the brain should mimic the promotion of LTP that increasing brain cAMP promotes.

 

This gives you tons of choices but Id suggest Polygala tenuifolia, Centella asiatica, Blueberries and Longan fruit as the more promising nootropics. You will be disappointed though if you were disappointed in Bacopa.

[Shane Minor]

First thing is first, just for anyone paying attention to this thread....

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/23354535 

 

http://www.med.nyu.e...ChunkIID=35549 

 

The results of Bacopa are controversial, and there as as many studies providing evidence for the benefits of Bacopa as there are studies providing evidence for the benefits of Phosphatidylserine. Infact, at least the studies for other remedies provide fMRI scans to support the findings in placebo controlled studies, as with phosphatidylserine and hippocampus size.... You could go even further and say they've found more evidence supporting the benefits of exercise that throw these supplements out the window.... Exercise not only increases the hippocampus size, but it is also the best way to achieve neurogenesis-- something you know about, since you recommended an MAO inhibitor... "Polygala Tenuifolia"... That's more expensive than taking a Blueberry or Bilberry extract containing at least 30%  Anthocyanins, which is also shown to inhibit both MAO-A and MAO-B ....... When it comes to increasing cAMP BTW, CREB is primarily for Spatial and Long term memory... it is an element binding protein that responds to camp, given the name (cAMP Response element-binding protein) rather than increasing your levels of cAMP which is what the Ciltep stack promises to do... The only problem with the Ciltep stack is that Artichoke Extract (Luteolin) is not a significant PDE4 Inhibitor, and Caffeine inhibits the effects of Forskolin on the AMP cycle.... Two things would need to be replaced. A, you'd need a better PDE4 Inhibitor, and B. A substitution for Caffeine, maybe ALCAR or Adrafinil.... 

 

I'm guessing if I wanted to increase the effects of having more cAMP I could take something that phosphorylates CREB..... Inhibiting MAO would actually most likely increase cognition by up-regulating dopaminergic activity... but to be honest, I'd rather just take l phenylalanie, and wherever MAO inhibition works best would probably be for memory, and again I'd rather just exercise because it works better .... Bacopa was added to the Alpha Brain Stack, and most of the people that I know do not recommend Alpha Brain primarily due to the fact that it's ingredients like Bacopa, and Phosphatidylserine aren't all that great... plus they tried Bacopa, and Phosphatidylserine by themselves for months without any results, including me for Bacopa... Phosphatidylserine did help with memory, but not so significantly that i'd be promoting it......  

 

 

Best of luck,

 

~ Shane 

 

[Shane Minor]

I did some more research... I'm not going to be experimenting with Ciltep... Thanks Bateau, because after talking with you I actually started doing more research on CILTEP, also listened to many personal testimonials.... Most people report issues with working memory. Another red flag, Forskolin Inhibits acetylcholine by increasing acetylcholinesterase....... You did recommend blueberry extract, another MAO Inhibitor which is a good recommendation... I might also try some curcumin... Might because results of it are controversial.. I don't like controversial results :D 

Thanks a lot Bateau... still don't like Bacopa but I really do appreciate the Inquiry.