7 replies to this topic

[stephen_b]

I have run into what I suspect might be a potentiation of C60 by thiamine and wanted to throw the idea out there.

 

I have posted about how helpful I've found thiamine to be for endurance (specifically running) in another thread. I had an interesting experience today. In my morning run at 9:30AM, despite having taken 600 mg of thiamine, I felt really low energy. The goal was a 10 mile run at marathon pace, and it just wasn't happening. During that run I started thinking about what I had been doing differently, since I had had exceptionally good results with thiamine and pregnenolone up until fairly recently. I cut the run short and headed home.

 

It occurred to me that my last dose of C60 was at least a couple of weeks ago, and that was only 1.5 mg. When I got back, I tried a little experiment. I took three droppers of C60-OO (about 4.5 mg of C60) and nothing else until I went on a second run at 5:30PM. The second run was better by a whole bunch (average pace of 7:35 min/mi vs. 8:50 min/mi) and felt much more comfortable despite the higher temperature.

 

Other explanations are of course possible. Maybe I need more thiamine to get some of the benefits from C60 that others do not. Maybe this will not pan out in a few days. I really hope not though.

[Lufega]

I don't know much about C60 except it works as an antioxidant (?).  Thiamin also have some role in upregulating antioxidant functions at least in how it affects Testosterone levels in this study.  That might shed some light on your theory.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24371036

 

 

 

Chronic administration of thiamine pyrophosphate decreases age-related histological atrophic testicular changes and improves sexual behavior in male Wistar rats.

Abstract

Aging is a multifactorial universal process and constitutes the most important risk factor for chronic-degenerative diseases. Although it is a natural process, pathological aging arises when these changes occur quickly and the body is not able to adapt. This is often associated with the generation of reactive oxygen species (ROS), inflammation, and a decrease in the endogenous antioxidant systems, constituting a physiopathological state commonly found in chronic-degenerative diseases. At the testicular level, aging is associated with tissue atrophy, decreased steroidogenesis and spermatogenesis, and sexual behavior disorders. This situation, in addition to the elevated generation of ROS in the testicular steroidogenesis, provides a critical cellular environment causing oxidative damage at diverse cellular levels. To assess the effects of a reduction in the levels of ROS, thiamine pyrophosphate (TPP) was chronically administered in senile Wistar rats. TPP causes an activation of intermediate metabolism routes, enhancing cellular respiration and decreasing the generation of ROS. Our results show an overall decrease of atrophic histological changes linked to aging, with higher levels of serum testosterone, sexual activity, and an increase in the levels of endogenous antioxidant enzymes in TPP-treated animals. These results suggest that TPP chronic administration decreases the progression of age-related atrophic changes by improving the intermediate metabolism, and by increasing the levels of antioxidant enzymes.

 

Edited by Lufega, 04 September 2014 - 03:42 AM.

[Invariant]

What makes you think the C60 was potentiated by thiamine? What you have observed is that upon dosing C60 your endurance improved. This has been noted by many people. You also happened to have been using thiamine, but what you should compare in order to see if there is a potentiation of C60 by thiamine, is whether the combination gives you more than an additive effect. I.e. test yourself at baseline, on C60 only, then on thiamine only, then on both, and see whether the difference between baseline and C60+thiamine is larger than the sum of the differences between baseline and either C60 or thiamine. It would be quite interesting if you found such a superadditive effect, but it takes a lot of time and effort to properly run such an experiment.

[stephen_b]

@Novotropic: I suspect that C60 was potentiated by thiamine because the nice results I had experienced with thiamine had started to fade and seem to have been restored after dosing 4.5 mg of C60. I have taken C60 without the thiamine for a couple of years now. I have had some nice results, but not to nearly the same extent as I am getting now, which are in a different league.

 

Agreed about the challenges of testing, especially if C60 stays around for a longer time.

[Invariant]

Ok that clarifies things. You could argue that you have experienced C60 by itself (before dosing thiamine), followed by C60+thiamine, and then, as C60 wore out, thiamine by itself. Still very indirect evidence of course, but it deserves to be mentioned.

 

You wrote that you took 1.5mg a couple of weeks ago. That seems like a very low dose, shouldn't it have flushed out sooner?

[stephen_b]

Ok that clarifies things. You could argue that you have experienced C60 by itself (before dosing thiamine), followed by C60+thiamine, and then, as C60 wore out, thiamine by itself. Still very indirect evidence of course, but it deserves to be mentioned.

 

You wrote that you took 1.5mg a couple of weeks ago. That seems like a very low dose, shouldn't it have flushed out sooner?

 

Yeah, maybe I haven't been taking enough.

 

Some speculation: there are a lot of processes that are involved from eating to using energy efficiently in muscle mitochondria. Elites have very efficient systems; the rest of us not quite as much. In some people there could be one or more limiting processes to high performance. Thiamine is central to carbohydrate metabolism, what endurance sports are all about. Maybe thiamine for me compensates for a lack somewhere along the way.

 

It also seems that thiamine deficiency can give rise to brain mitochondria abnormalities (PMID 6493495) and induces oxidative stress in these mitochondria (PMID 23417786). But if there is a link between C60 and thiamine, I am not sure what it could be, other than energy production in general.

[sthira]

Thanks for your report. Have you tried a more general b-complex and noticed any endurance gains? Or is it just the b-1 that's benefitting your runs?

[stephen_b]

Thanks for your report. Have you tried a more general b-complex and noticed any endurance gains? Or is it just the b-1 that's benefitting your runs?

 

I do take take this multi that provides the B vitamins, but I haven't noticed any gains just from the multi. I usually dose B1 before a run and then take the multi after breakfast.