5 replies to this topic

[Mayardur]

Recently, a neurotransmitter urinalysis reported that all of my neurotransmitters are out of balance: serotonin, GABA, dopamine, norepinephrine, and glutamate are all low, while epinephrine is really high. These results confirm how I've been feeling, at varying degrees, both mentally and physically for a long while (more details at this post if interested).

 

This is what I've come up with to help balance each neurotransmitter:

 

Serotonin: Tryptophan, L-theanine, 5-HTP

GABA: L-theanine, GABA, Glutamine

Dopamine: L-tyrosine, L-theanine, Mucuna

Norepinephrine: Same as dopamine

Epinephrine: L-theanine

Glutamate: L-glutamine

 

 

Realizing, of course, that everyone's body is different - any recommendation on starting dosages and dosage timings? Any additional supplements to consider? I'm also supplementing with ashwagandha to support lower adrenal function, and with TMG to support what this imbalance and other symptoms point to as disruption in methylation (genetic test to confirm in coming weeks). Until I can get a hair mineral analysis to confirm, my hunch is that there is an underlying heavy metal toxicity that is contributing to this imbalance as well. But, in the meantime, I'm looking to at least achieve some positive results while investigating further to hopefully eradicate the root cause of this.

 

 

[Mayardur]

I've settled on the following. Please provide input on this as an overall neurotransmitter balancing program and if any contraindications are present.

 

Morning: NADH (with ribose), 5-MTHF, L-Tyrosine, L-Phenylalanine, Vitamin D3, Molybdenum, TMG, ashwagandha

 

Afternoon: B12 (Hydroxocobalamin), L-Phenylalanine, TMG, 5-MTHF, Rhodiola

 

Before bed: 5-HTP (with St. John's Wort), GABA, L-Theanine, ashwagandha

 

Am I supplementing these at optimal times of day? Again, keep in mind that serotonin, GABA, dopamine, norepinephrine, and glutamate are all low, while epinephrine is high. The only change I've noticed so far is that I'm perhaps a bit more irritable and impatient at time since starting the above regime this past weekend - but this could also be circumstantial.

[Gorthaur]

I'm very sceptical of the ability for a urine test to diagnose neurotransmitter imbalances. Could you explain more about how this test works, and post some numbers? How exactly do your results compare with the benchmarks?

 

It's good to hear that you're getting some genetic testing done. With all the complexities of the methylation cycle, there's really no way to figure out how to supplement without your test results.

 

You might want to check out this article before proceeding with any further tests. Heavy metal toxicity is very rare.

 

As for your supplement plan, it will boost all your neurotransmitters in the short term, but it will also cause your body to downregulate neurotransmitter production in the long term, in addition to reducing the number of receptors. Did you start taking 13 supplements all at once? It's generally advised to add one thing at a time every week or two. Rhodiola, Tyrosine and phenylalanine are redundant, as are theanine and GABA, as are 5-HTP and St. John's Wort - just pick one thing at a time to work on.

[Mayardur]

I'm very sceptical of the ability for a urine test to diagnose neurotransmitter imbalances. Could you explain more about how this test works, and post some numbers? How exactly do your results compare with the benchmarks?

 

It's good to hear that you're getting some genetic testing done. With all the complexities of the methylation cycle, there's really no way to figure out how to supplement without your test results.

 

You might want to check out this article before proceeding with any further tests. Heavy metal toxicity is very rare.

 

As for your supplement plan, it will boost all your neurotransmitters in the short term, but it will also cause your body to downregulate neurotransmitter production in the long term, in addition to reducing the number of receptors. Did you start taking 13 supplements all at once? It's generally advised to add one thing at a time every week or two. Rhodiola, Tyrosine and phenylalanine are redundant, as are theanine and GABA, as are 5-HTP and St. John's Wort - just pick one thing at a time to work on.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Labrix uses HPLC Triple Quadrupole MS/MS technology, which supposedly is one of the most accurate methods for urinalysis. Sample is collected in the morning before any exercise, food, supplements, etc. My results, along with reference ranges, are as follows:

 

Serotonin: 40.46 (74.13 - 111.19)
GABA: 2.37 (2.76 - 4.14)
Dopamine: 70.32 (139.1-208.7)
Norepinephrine: 10.26 (28.07-42.11)
Epinephrine: 8.17 (3.36-5.05)
Glutamate: 31.95 (60.69-91.03)

 

I'm not convinced of complete accuracy of these results (or the hair mineral analysis which I'll have results for in the coming weeks) - in fact, in the article you cited, "The Commercial Laboratory Hall of Shame" lists a few labs that I've been skeptical about based on results from family members vs actual symptomology and lack of improvement following specific protocol. However, at the same time, the above results have been a good reference point, at least, and corroborate with how I felt at the time of testing and prior to targeted supplementation.

 

The genetic testing has proven useful, and may help to explain the above. I have three heterozygous MTHFR mutations. Outside of MTHFR exists homozygous COMT and MAO-A mutations, as well as hetero VDR, ACAT, MTRR, BHMT and CBS mutations. I have to read about this more in depth, but this combination suggests low levels and quick depletion of BH4, which acts as a rate limiting factor for the production of neurotransmitters and catecholamines including serotonin, melatonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine - basically, BH4 helps regulate neurotransmitters and mood. It is also a cofactor in the production of nitric oxide, which I've historically tested low for based on saliva. Homozygous MAO-A combined with COMT mutations in particular are also suggestive of more severe neurotransmitter imbalances.

 

I was using a few of these supplements (D, ashwag, TMG and Rhodiola) prior to adding the rest but, yes, I must confess that the others were added all at once (swapped Mucuna with L-Phenylalanine) in an attempt to jump start level boosts. I plan to scale back but was unsure of which supplements were most effective. However, I have a starting point based on your input. Instead of boosting levels, are there any supplements that will provide overall regulation and balance?

[Gorthaur]

Since 5 out of 6 neurotransmitters are measured at low levels, it's hard to know where to begin. Since you have low glutamate and low GABA, it seems like they would balance out. Supplementing directly with GABA is not much different than drinking alcohol or taking a benzo on a daily basis. Tolerance develops quickly, and it produces a pretty nasty rebound effect. A glutamate deficiency seems an unlikely problem, but if you did have it, it would probably resemble the effects of an NMDA antagonist, particularly dissociation and confusion.

 

As for your catecholamines, it's dangerous to add any precursors if you already have high epinephrine. If your dopamine and norepinephrine levels are low in part because your body is over-metabolizing them into epinephrine, you run the risk of making that problem much worse. Rather than focus on precursors, I would focus on the cofactors involved in catecholamine synthesis. To increase the conversion of L-DOPA to dopamine, and 5-HTP to serotonin, add more pyridoxal phosphate. To decrease the conversion of norepinephrine to epinephrine, cut back on SAMe or methyl donors. Once your cofactors are corrected and stabilized, you can start adding in low doses of one precursor at a time. Just 25 mg of 5-HTP a day for a week, then add 100 mg of tyrosine a day, etc.

 

I'm guessing you've used Genetic Genie and the related resources. Wikipedia is also good for information on catecholamine synthesis 

[Mayardur]

Okay, makes sense. Thanks for the direction. I have some P5P on the way and will taper off of the other precursors in the meantime. Yes, Genetic Genie and several others have been helpful tools. You mentioned cutting down on methyl donors to decrease conversion of norepinephrine to epinephrine; this is why I've stayed away from methyl B12, but do you suggest also dropping TMG in this case?

 

I see you also have familiarity with NSI-189. Would you suggest trying this as well? Given that it's neurogenic, have you encountered any evidence suggesting that it would enhance catecholamine synthesis?