23 replies to this topic

[Dagger907]

Hi all! Mostly been lurking around the forum, not posting anything of significance to others.

I'm a alcoholic, or at least I drink more than regular persons. I drink approximately 3 litres of 4.7% beer a day. Sunday is my day off, but Fridays and Saturdays might be more intense. Last time I did my blood-work, my Gamma-GT(gamma gin tonic as we call it) was pretty high. Not using paracetamol or anything like that.

Regular medication: 200mg modafinil(morning, Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder). 20mg Lexapro(Escitalopram, gonna taper this down in a couple of months), 45mb Sobril(Oxazepam), 20mg Stilnoct(Zolpidem) just before sleep. This have done wonders for my anxiety, depression and my delayed sleep phase disorder. Currently Im on 2mg Xanax a day, got robbed some weeks ago so Ive got more anxiety than usual. Im gonna taper off it, no worries.

Nootropics: Mostly noopept(20mg each day), recently sunifiram(20mgx2 each day), some antioxidants, B12 etc. Some choline supplements. My stack is not the issue here. Its my drinking.

I wanna kick my drinking habit. I feel the Xanax takes the edge off my urge to drink, but getting the doctor to prescribe me Xanax is useless, and getting off it might be worse than alcohol alone?

I've got stashed up some benzo's, just in case. Im after a nootropic stack, and Im feeling that my consumption of alcohol is hindering my progress. I can tell noopept protects me after a real binge.

Some good advice out there? I dont need anyone pointing fingers, telling me to go to a clinic or telling me how bad it is to drink. I know this stuff!

Best regards,
Dagger

EDIT: I've tried two types of common anti-addictive drugs for my alcohol problem: Acamprosate and Selincro. Selincro(Nalmefene) just made me feel really dysforic and out of it, a no-go pill. Acomprosate did nothing.

I was sober(completely) for a time, but I rebounced. No previous addictions other than benzos. Never done psychedelics, MDMA or anything with a syringe. I take B-12 supplements, B-complex with magnesium, fish oil and Milk Thistle to protect my liver.

 

EDIT2: Yes, I have tried "professional help" e.g therapist and also a instutution to kick this specific habit.

Edited by Dagger907, 14 September 2014 - 06:50 AM.

[pbandy1]

It's good that you realize its a problem and that you have tried professional help. Keep trying. For now, my #1 supp to recommend would be n-acetyl-cysteine (NAC).

[Dagger907]

Is that as a preventive measure, e.g protect my liver? I'll order some pretty soon, don't want my liver kneeing over at age 24.

Thanks, Ill add it to my list. Quick question, is this easy to get? Or do I need a doctor?

Best regards, and thankfulness,

Dagger

[Galaxyshock]

Kudzu is popular as anti-alcohol remedy if you want to try something herbal.

[Dagger907]

At this point, Im open for eating raw bulls-testicles and shotting their sperm if it can help.

Kudzu, noted.

[medievil]

Baclogen, is extremely effectively, basically you titrated up the dose until you hit a target where your craving and withdrawals for alcohol are suddenly gone, it's extremely effective for alcoholism.

[platypus]

How about naltrexone? 

 

http://www.dpt.samhs...XWPFinalPDF.pdf

[medievil]

naltrexone only works after a long time, it removes the alcohol reward while you are still addicted and keep drinking but over months your brain just learns that it's pointless but it takes so long since the dopamine driven addiction will remain even without getting rewarding effects.

[Dagger907]

I've allready got Selincro(antagonist), which I believe is the same idea as naltrexone? Haven't tried it though, is it worth a shot?

Selincro made me feel like shit, never been so dysphoric.

[Dagger907]

@Medievil: Are you pointing towards baclofen? I think Norwegian doctors are pretty much against that, especially the doses. I read a long time ago that baclofen against alcohol addiction needed huge doses.

Can you pinpoint me in what kinda dose we're talking about?

[medievil]

Massive doses indeed but it's very individual, it's basically titration up until you hit the sudden "spot" that everything changes.

 

There's is nothing wrong with big doses as its extremely well tolerated so I don't see the problem

[Dichotohmy]

I just posted about this in another thread, but NAC really deserves to be seconded. NAC/glutathione really helps out a stressed liver/brain from the oxidative effects of alcohol metabolites. Back in my alcoholic drinking days, while it didn't do anything to curb the desire to drink, NAC sure helped lessen the withdrawal malaise upon waking up, thus making hair of the dog and other morning drinking less of a necessity and more of a conscious choice. 

 

AA, and lots of other will disagree, but I find that stimulants are about the only thing that is useful for curbing the actual desire to drink.

Edited by Dichotohmy, 15 September 2014 - 07:08 AM.

[Dagger907]

NAC(Acetylcysteine) is sold over the counter here, and Naltrexone I need a prescription for.
I allready use my fair share of benzos, supplementing with what would eventually be huge amounts of baclofen is not a viable option at the momemt. If I know my doctors right.

What about trying out NAC with Naltrexone, supplying with benzos as needed?

Then trying to taper off, eventually having a sober period for some months?

@Dichotohmy: I agree, racemic amphetamines are incredible in reducing need for alcohol. But I can't go that way, it will fuck me up after some time. Other stimulants doesent have this effect.

Any input?

[Strelok]

It's good that you take a B Complex.  I'd make sure it has the more bioavailable forms of those vitamins instead of the cheap, unreduced forms.  B1, B6, and B9 are especially important here, but you want them all.

 

NAC (before alcohol consumption), milk thistle, and perhaps LIverCare by Himalaya for your liver.

 

Minerals:  Magnesium and zinc take heavy losses from excessive ETOH consumption.

 

Obviosly your goal should be to quit drinking so much.  It really hurts your long term prognosis. 

 

Ensure plenty of water intake throughout day to help the kidneys.

 

Make sure to eat well rounded, healthy meals away from alcohol consumption (alcohol will inhibit proper digestion).  Consider digestive enzymes with meals and maybe a probiotic or probiotic containing foods/drinks (alcohol is bad for intestinal microflora)..

 

That's it off the top of my head. 

[ThatGuy]

congrats on recognizing that you have a problem. I am on day 10 of my soberity, after years of hard liquor. The urge is still there, but once I start I seem to not be able to stop till it's all.

 

should I consider taking supplements for my liver, or will it "fix" itself in time if you don't drink.

[Dichotohmy]

Because you're past the point of acute detox from alcohol by now, your liver has been through the worst and will get better over the coming few months. The liver heals relatively quickly, given no other stresses upon it, in even the hardest-core, decades-long alcoholics. It might be a good idea to explain your situation to a doctor and ask him/her to test liver enzymes if you're really concerned. 

 

Unfortunately, PAWS is a bitch and usually kicks in within a few weeks of alcohol cessation - once the afterglow of quitting is gone. Your mileage may vary in using supplements, or even medication really, to battle the anhedonia, depersonalization, anxiety, and other mental effects of PAWS. 

[ThatGuy]

Thanks for the info.

 

I am currently on an SSRI. The doctor though my lack of energy was due to the alochol/depression/anxiety. But my energy level still hasn't return to where it should be(at least I think).

 

I have been thinking of getting my liver enzymes tested, as well as my testosterone tested as well. I've read that chronic drinking can cause Low-T, but I'm unsure if after you quit drinking your testosterone level go back to normal or stay low.

[Keizo]

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Disulfiram

[Introspecta]

Baclofen or Phenibut really curves alcohol cravings. Its unfortunate that if you were to use either you will become dependent on them and if you want to get off them it may be difficult. There is also the chance that you may not take as prescribed though Baclofen has little recreational effects but Phenibut has some but it would probably just make you tired if you dosed too high. Phenibut is definetely easier to obtain.

 

I noticed after detoxing myself off Phenibut that suddenly I started having cravings for alcohol again. I hadn't drank in years and ended up slipping up one night a few weeks after my Phenibut detox. In a sense your trading one addiction for the other but if you can get on a controlled dose and take that same dose daily you may be better off.

 

Baclofen would be the better choice due to it being Pharmaceutical. You know what your getting. You don't have to deal with quality issues. Insurance pays most of it if you have insurance.

 

Phenibut could be used in low doses during the week then used recreationally on the weekends. That is if you respond to it in a good way but you have to find a quality brand which is hard to find these days. I posted a thread about it today. Some people resond great to Phenibut batches that I would say are garbage so I guess you never know unless you try.

[ThatGuy]

I remember years ago watching Dog the Bounty Hunter... After catching someone he was telling him about how they have a pill that you can take that would make you sick if you were to drink.

 

Disulfiram had to be what he was referring too.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Disulfiram

 

 

Baclofen or Phenibut really curves alcohol cravings. Its unfortunate that if you were to use either you will become dependent on them and if you want to get off them it may be difficult. There is also the chance that you may not take as prescribed though Baclofen has little recreational effects but Phenibut has some but it would probably just make you tired if you dosed too high. Phenibut is definetely easier to obtain.

 

I noticed after detoxing myself off Phenibut that suddenly I started having cravings for alcohol again. I hadn't drank in years and ended up slipping up one night a few weeks after my Phenibut detox. In a sense your trading one addiction for the other but if you can get on a controlled dose and take that same dose daily you may be better off.

 

Baclofen would be the better choice due to it being Pharmaceutical. You know what your getting. You don't have to deal with quality issues. Insurance pays most of it if you have insurance.

 

Phenibut could be used in low doses during the week then used recreationally on the weekends. That is if you respond to it in a good way but you have to find a quality brand which is hard to find these days. I posted a thread about it today. Some people resond great to Phenibut batches that I would say are garbage so I guess you never know unless you try.

 

I do have a tub of Phenibut that I had gotten to try to help with anxiety. I took it a couple times, and one time stacked it with noopept and I ended up getting a bad headache and haven't taken it since.
 

[Dagger907]

I've done Phenibut for "pleasure only", or to mix with alcohol and/or benzo's. Works nice the first couple of nights, then it wears off. Besides, the dose-curve on that stuff is dangerous, like GHB. 2 grams could be mellow, 5 grams could knock your ass out for 20 straight hours.

Im leaning more towards baclofen and others things mentioned here.

I wouldn't take Disulfiram if my life depened on it, which it does not, yet. That shit is nasty.

Thansk for the feedback.

Edited by Dagger907, 22 September 2014 - 11:20 AM.

[Dagger907]

@ThatGuy: I'm on SSRI's too, I was in an institution when I was put on it. My mood got up, almost manic. But Im also prescribed Modafinil, so my energy levels are pretty OK.

No doubt you could have PAWS, I did after my first detox. Consult your doctor on whether you should consider tapering off on a low dose of a weak benzo like oxazepam? Or maybe gabapentin or pregabalin?

Like week one: 2x20mg oxazepam, week 2, 2x20mg oxazepam, week 3 2x15mg oxazepam, week 4 2x15mg oxazepam etc and stay on 5mg for a month.



All my blood-work except my Gamma GT is fucking good. I just wanna kick the disgusting, expensive, anti-nootropic habit.

Edited by Dagger907, 22 September 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[medievil]

Phenibut or baclofen withdrawal is a non issue really as 2 weeks of a benzo completely take care of it.
I take 4 grams of phenibut a day.

[zeropoint]

I would add ashwagandha to your anti-alcohol arsenal====from pubmed

 

Withania somnifera (WS) or its psychotropic preparation is known to play a critical role in morphine, alcohol and benzodiazepines addiction. This study investigates the role of WS in acute ethanol and withdrawal from chronic ethanol consumption using elevated plus maze paradigm in rats. Acute administration of ethanol (1.5-2 g/kg, ip) triggered anxiolytic effect and withdrawal from prolonged ethanol (9% v/v ethanol, 15 days) consumption elicited enhanced behavioral despair (anxiety). Acute administration of WS (50 mg/kg, oral) potentiated the anxiolytic action of subeffective dose of ethanol (0.5 or 1 g/kg, ip). Moreover, the ethanol withdrawal anxiety was markedly antagonized in dose dependent manner by WS at 200 and 500 mg/kg or higher dose of ethanol (2.5 g/kg). However, co-administration of subeffective doses of WS (50 mg/kg, oral) and ethanol also attenuated withdrawal-induced anxiety due to chronic ethanol (9% v/v ethanol, 15 days) consumption. The results suggest the protective effect of WS in the management of ethanol withdrawal reactions.

 

It looks useful----go to ashwagandha thread

Edited by zeropoint, 03 October 2014 - 01:37 AM.