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What do dopamine and norepinephrine do outside of the brain?

dopamine

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#1 tfor

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 03:23 AM


If a depressed person takes antidepressants which raise DA or NE or both, then how do we

know wether this is actually positive or not? After all these are stress hormones. Then wouldn't taking such

a drug only raise the stress levels of the body and simulate even more stress?

I read that stimulants can cause adrenal fatigue. Would this not mean that a depressed, already fatigued

person should absolutely not go on a SNRI, NDRI or anything which raises DA or NE?

 

Is it even possible to tell if a person should or should not take anything which boost DA/NE?

Or do you simply have to try it and see wether you react positively or not?



#2 Area-1255

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 01:41 AM

Yes it is possible that artificially increased levels of monoamine may incite "simulated" stress responses and can contribute to un-necessary anxiety by means of increasing cortisol, ACTH and other stress hormones. Peripherally noradrenaline can induce muscle contraction, constrict or dilate the pupil, depending on the receptor, it also speeds or reduces heart rate, depending on receptor. Noradrenaline causes peripheral and endothelial vasocontstriction, and by beta-adrenergic receptors it promotes positive inotropism and increased heart rate. By alpha-1-receptors NE will REDUCE heart rate, and increase BP.

Dopamine functions to control peripheral contraction in a manner generally opposite of noradrenaline - and thus why AntiParkinsons drugs that eliminate tremors are pro-dopamine drugs. Dopamine enhances GABA and depresses the nervous system by D2,D3,D4 receptors - whereas by D1 and D5 it also potentiates GABA but also increases thyroid hormone and second messengers. 

 

Most of what it comes down to  - are whether the NT in question is positively or negatively coupled to adenylate cyclase....and this then corresponds to calcium channels which regulate contraction and and constriction etc.

 

Depression can result from calcium overload and deficiency, but deficiency correlates with serotonin toxicity and results in a relative lack of emotional capacity.

Likewise, Histamine and Glutamate facilitate Ca2+ and cAMP the MOST - and this corresponds with increased emotions (in general).

Thus overemotional people commonly have either very high histamine or glutamate.

 

 


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#3 tfor

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 02:32 AM

Great answer.

I assume there are no ways to test if a person has high glutamate, right?

Since ssris don't seem to help me I think that glutamate could be one of my issues.

But unfortunately there aren't many drugs out there. Memantine and Lyrica both messed with my memory.

 

 



#4 Area-1255

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 02:42 AM

Great answer.

I assume there are no ways to test if a person has high glutamate, right?

Since ssris don't seem to help me I think that glutamate could be one of my issues.

But unfortunately there aren't many drugs out there. Memantine and Lyrica both messed with my memory.

Could be. Testing, not sure of the exact test - you could probably test for glutamic acid and look at excretion rates. Glutamate has a lot to do with your diet as well. Diets high in pea protein, chicken and processed foods contain tons of glutamic acid.

 

Low glutamate symptoms would share some similarities with low dopamine.

Problems with short-term active memory and intellectual processing would be some I can say off the top of my head, in addition to emotional apathy and lack of motivation. Trouble sleeping too would be another one - oddly enough you wouldn't think so but because there is such a delicate balance involved - and some glutamate receptors are important for GABA release as well.

NMDA, and metabatropic group 2 and 3, prominently mGlu8 (metabatropic glutamate 8) are needed for GABA release as well.

Bacopa may have an effect on multiple subtype expression.

http://examine.com/s...eri/#summary3-5

http://en.wikipedia....mate_receptor_6

http://area1255.blog...a-receptor.html



#5 Area-1255

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 02:44 AM

You could supplement with D-Aspartic Acid and just increase consumption of above foods - you don't necessarily have to jump to drugs.

Ginkgo Biloba is a GABA-A antagonist but I wouldn't recommend it without knowing for sure what your issue is.

Plus on some ends, as said above - glutamate and GABA work together, it's only at extremes (generally) that they oppose each other or in cases where synaptic plasticity is at risk by the intervention of some other neurotransmitter. Heavy Metals also influence glutamatergic output.

Lead is a notable NMDA blocker and also affects some metabatropic subtypes.


Edited by Area-1255, 17 September 2014 - 02:45 AM.


#6 tfor

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 03:47 AM

The problem is that I don't know if Bacopa and DAA would interfere with the drugs which I'm taking (ritalin,lexapro,wellbutrin).

When I'm on prescription drugs I'm very worried about interactions with supplements.


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#7 Area-1255

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 04:26 AM

The problem is that I don't know if Bacopa and DAA would interfere with the drugs which I'm taking (ritalin,lexapro,wellbutrin).

When I'm on prescription drugs I'm very worried about interactions with supplements.

Ah, I hear ya. Yeah especially with ritalin it suppose it could. Bacopa is a nootropic though and now that you mention lexapro - that could be counterproductive since Bacopa increases serotonin production (tryptophan hydroxylase).

Wellbutrin on the other hand there should be no interaction, though it does antagonize nicotinic receptors which means the acetylcholine boost from bacopa and DAA might push to too much muscarinic activation. Although it takes a TON of muscarinic activation to produce side-effects in most cases from that alone. Unless you already have low thyroid hormone then too M-receptor activation can over-depress your nervous system.

 

D-Aspartic Acid itself should be cool though....

 

Have you considered H(3)antagonists like Pitolisant or Conessine extract?

These boost histamine, acetylcholine, GABA, glutamate, dopamine etc.

H3 autoreceptors are the garbage of human neuro-biology, as I always say.







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