Posted 21 September 2014 - 03:52 PM
Hi all,
Like many on this forum I practice sun avoidance as much as I can + apply sunscreen 2-3 times daily.
I'm wondering how far the heliophobia dictates your daily life choices :
Would you avoid a good job offer in sunny area (Hawai for ex) ?
Would you avoid beach holidays with friends ?
Both cases have been lately offered to me, and I'm wondering what you guys would do.
Thanks for any input ! 
Posted 22 September 2014 - 02:43 AM
As long as you're already putting sunscreen on 2-3 times a day, I'd say you're good to go wherever fate takes you. Modern sunscreens are pretty good, and there's various clothes, hats, and sunglasses that can be worn. You can get a UV tint on the side windows of your car. That's all stuff that can be integrated into a pretty normal life. Try not to be obsessive about it. A little UV isn't the end of the world. As long as you're knocking out the bulk of it and not getting sunburned, you should be ok. Life at sea level may give you less UV than if you live at high altitude. I know a couple people who spent a big part of their life at 8-9000 feet, and their faces are deeply lined, like nothing you see at sea level. (At sea level you see a different kind of damage if people haven't protected themselves- more coarseness and pigmentation disorders, less of the deep chasms.
Posted 24 September 2014 - 11:14 AM
thanks for your answers ...
so even with a good modern sunscreen I might age quicker if I live in these regions ?
even if I take care of reapplying often ?
so even with a good modern sunscreen I might age quicker if I live in these regions ?
even if I take care of reapplying often ?
No. That's the point of a good modern sunscreen. It will protect you. Relax.
The opinion on this issue varies.
There is the common idea that by inducing free radicals and MMPs the sun ages you. Aside from UV radiation, visible light and infrared radiation also induces both of these, it was even found that in some cases 90% of this effect was found in cloth-covered skin - so merely by the infrared radiation of the sun: http://www.ncbi.nlm....act&holding=npg - This is the popular opinion. With popular I don't mean that its more valid.
However, there is also another less popular opinion: MMPs are involved in processes other than degradation of collagen / elastin, and the MMPs responsible for photoaging are induced by neutrophils. These neutrophils are only induced by UV radiation. To see a good position for this view: http://www.nature.co...ymp200915a.html
Now you can take a look at both of these studies and the data yourself and try to find a conclusion. I'm not sure there is enough research to say for sure which it is. Modern sunscreen protects you against UVB and against UVA, maybe not totally perfect at the very end of the UVA spectrum but decent. It does nothing against ir and visible light, antioxidants might help somewhat but also don't offer full protection.
Maybe your sunscreen protects you almost fully against photoaging, maybe not, depends on how you interpret the current research.
Edited by Heyman, 24 September 2014 - 11:15 AM.
Posted 18 October 2014 - 08:43 PM
I try to stay indoor during daylight hours as long as possible and try to schedule my errands during afternoon (so I could run for the shades) or evening. I also do multilayer approach to sun protection 1. internal sun protection in forms of Heliocare and carotene 2. vitamin c and e serum 3. 50 spf sunscreen 3. uva blocking film in cars. But I'm not overt about it when I'm with people.
Edited by Audioque, 18 October 2014 - 08:43 PM.
Posted 19 October 2014 - 11:24 AM
Non-heliophobe here. The sun feels so good to me that I think I might die if I had to avoid it. I do avoid getting burned, of course. Interesting the wide range of sun (and longevity) strategies around the world.
Posted 19 October 2014 - 07:25 PM
It would be interesting to know what sun exposure got some supercentenarians during their lives. Lots of them lived in high UV radiation latitudes. Did they avoid the sun? Take Jeanne Calment - She lived her entire life in south France, where UV index is very high during summers. Only topical treatment we know she used was olive oil, and her skin didn't look bad for her age at all. Although she had probably superior internal (genetic) repair mechanisms, i think she got lots of sun exposure too. Would she live so long with minimum sun exposure too?
Posted 20 October 2014 - 02:14 PM
It would be interesting to know what sun exposure got some supercentenarians during their lives. Lots of them lived in high UV radiation latitudes. Did they avoid the sun? Take Jeanne Calment - She lived her entire life in south France, where UV index is very high during summers. Only topical treatment we know she used was olive oil, and her skin didn't look bad for her age at all. Although she had probably superior internal (genetic) repair mechanisms, i think she got lots of sun exposure too. Would she live so long with minimum sun exposure too?
Thats interesting as it are 2 different concepts. Sun exposure will make you look older. I am 99,999% convinced by that. However, sun exposure might have beneficial health effects that might make you live longer.
Posted 20 October 2014 - 07:53 PM
Thats interesting as it are 2 different concepts. Sun exposure will make you look older. I am 99,999% convinced by that. However, sun exposure might have beneficial health effects that might make you live longer.
Yes, photoaging is real. But still..
I suspect it might have hormetic effect, (similar to natural background radioactivity and many other things considered bad in higher amounts). Although humans are not reptiles and we can easily get vitamins needed from food or supplements, maybe there is something else, what we would miss without at least some minimal UV exposure (its hard to avoid completely anyway)
This could be interesting research perhaps on several groups of naked mole rats exposed to different UV intensity and total cummulative exposure during their lifetime, from no uv at all to high doses (it was probably already tried somewhere). Or better: just low intensity UV and cummulative doses, but in different age for each group.
(*what about eyes? Would our eyes appreciate blocking UVA/B for lifetime?)
Posted 28 October 2014 - 02:41 PM
I hope this was a joke.I'd get a night job in Hawaii and go to the beach after sunset but never after sunrise.
Edited by Soma, 28 October 2014 - 02:50 PM.
Posted 28 October 2014 - 06:59 PM
Right on, Mind.Non-heliophobe here. The sun feels so good to me that I think I might die if I had to avoid it. I do avoid getting burned, of course. Interesting the wide range of sun (and longevity) strategies around the world.
Edited by Soma, 28 October 2014 - 07:05 PM.
Posted 29 October 2014 - 01:56 AM
I hope this was a joke.I'd get a night job in Hawaii and go to the beach after sunset but never after sunrise.
You need to live your life. You only have one.
There is a distinct difference between taking precautions against burning and being a frightened nocturnal vampire.
I remember reading some posts from a prominent member of these boards who said he never went outside while the sun was out (worked from home, shopped at night or on the internet) and covered the inside of his windows in his house with black garbage bags.
Wow...I sense that there may be some rather serious mental illness hovering about in these forums. This only further bolsters my observation that internet forums are largely populated by the lonely, disenfranchised, socially impaired, and total fucking nut-jobs. (And yes, I include myself in at least one of those categories... Ha!).
Big smiley face at end of post = sarcasm
I include you in the last category you mentioned.
Posted 29 October 2014 - 12:18 PM
Ha! Well, there are plenty who aren't being sarcastic, like the one I mentioned with the garbage bags, so I was just making sure. That person specifically chose to work from home so that they wouldn't ever have to endure a split-second of that terribly carcinogenic, disfiguring sunshine. C'mon, everybody knows that just one second of sunshine and you're fucked for life. Plus, I think you just had a comment for someone who wears two UPF 50 face shields one on top of the other. Christ, this forum is crawling with fucking crazies.Big smiley face at end of post = sarcasm
I include you in the last category you mentioned.
Edited by Soma, 29 October 2014 - 12:21 PM.
Posted 29 October 2014 - 01:53 PM
Since 1995, avoiding the sun has had a huge impact on every aspect of my life. Was probably one of the most extreme heliophobes out there for 15 years, but have eased up slightly in recent years. Now, I use a sun angle check online and will head out without sunblock if the sun angle is lower than 35 degrees. But, I am extremely aware that UVA penetrates the atmosphere at all times of day and will usually not stay out too long when the sun is between 35 and 20 degrees. But, once the sun is in the 15-20 degree range or lower in the sky, I pretty much roam freely outside, since even UVA is heavily filtered by the atmosphere at that point, and the sun and sky reflect this by skewering toward the red part of the spectrum in the sky's color palette. That is a huge improvement from 10 years ago when I would wear sunblock indoors in December if I was in proximity to an open window without a thick shade or drape covering it. There have been some benefits- am now a major sideshow attraction anywhere I go when my age is revealed since I have hit pretty extreme levels of antiaging to accompany the extreme levels of vampirism. But, I digress.
Otherwise, yeah, a pretty sad life!
Currently: Level 3 Sun Avoider.
Previously: Level 5 Sun Avoider
Edited by Brafarality, 29 October 2014 - 01:53 PM.
Posted 29 October 2014 - 02:19 PM
There was a person on this forum who avoided smiling religiously in order to avoid wrinkle-formation. THAT is extreme and unfortunately leads to reduced feeling of joy and pleasure, and it will also have a negative effect on personal relations. So moderation is key..
Posted 29 October 2014 - 03:25 PM
It is sad. Glad to see you are on the road to recovery.Otherwise, yeah, a pretty sad life!
Wow. Another seriously pathological case. This is terribly sad.There was a person on this forum who avoided smiling religiously in order to avoid wrinkle-formation..
I'll take that into consideration appropriately, taking into account who it is coming from. This comment will be appropriately filed under the category of "couldn't care less". Haha...Yep I was right.....you fit in that category.
Edited by Soma, 29 October 2014 - 03:57 PM.
Posted 30 October 2014 - 04:02 PM
Edited by Soma, 30 October 2014 - 04:38 PM.
Posted 30 October 2014 - 08:54 PM
Thanks. I'll do that while you and these other nutballs are busy slathering on four applications of SPF 500, slipping into a full body sun-condom and retiring to your hermetically sealed underground vault.
They make a SPF 500?????? please tell me where I can purchase this
Posted 09 November 2014 - 06:24 AM
thanks for your answers ...
so even with a good modern sunscreen I might age quicker if I live in these regions ?
even if I take care of reapplying often ?
so even with a good modern sunscreen I might age quicker if I live in these regions ?
even if I take care of reapplying often ?
No. That's the point of a good modern sunscreen. It will protect you. Relax.
The opinion on this issue varies.
There is the common idea that by inducing free radicals and MMPs the sun ages you. Aside from UV radiation, visible light and infrared radiation also induces both of these, it was even found that in some cases 90% of this effect was found in cloth-covered skin - so merely by the infrared radiation of the sun: http://www.ncbi.nlm....act&holding=npg - This is the popular opinion. With popular I don't mean that its more valid.
However, there is also another less popular opinion: MMPs are involved in processes other than degradation of collagen / elastin, and the MMPs responsible for photoaging are induced by neutrophils. These neutrophils are only induced by UV radiation. To see a good position for this view: http://www.nature.co...ymp200915a.html
Now you can take a look at both of these studies and the data yourself and try to find a conclusion. I'm not sure there is enough research to say for sure which it is. Modern sunscreen protects you against UVB and against UVA, maybe not totally perfect at the very end of the UVA spectrum but decent. It does nothing against ir and visible light, antioxidants might help somewhat but also don't offer full protection.
Maybe your sunscreen protects you almost fully against photoaging, maybe not, depends on how you interpret the current research.
AFAIK a good physical sunscreen provides modest protection against IR and visible light. Moreover, mitochondria-targetted antioxidants will provide protection against IR (and UVA). So taking MitoQ, c60oo, PQQ, and applying a topical such as CoQ10 or MitoQ will provide protection. Combining these practices with a good sunscreen and I'd say you're doing all you can.
"Most of the physical photoblockers are compounds of metals (iron, chromium, zinc, titanium, etc) that occur naturally, while some, such as bismuth are man-made. In addition to their photoprotective attributes, these substances also assist in preventing windburns and skin damage from wind driven micro particles of dirt and grime. An additional significant property of these physical blockers is their ability to offer a defense against infrared (‘heat’) rays by two distinct means.
First, particles large enough to be visible (i.e. reflect visible light) will also reflect and refract infrared waves most harmful to skin (760nm – 1,800nm). Second, regardless of their particle size, these metal-based materials act as a ‘heat sink’ and thereby reduce the heat effect on the skin."
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