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Theory: Racetams are antibiotics or antifungals

nootropics racetam

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#1 Peder Holdgaard Pedersen

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Posted 27 September 2014 - 01:58 PM


Wanted to hear everyone's opinion on this theory: What if racetams are completely misunderstood, and their mechanism of effect is an antibiotic, antiprotozoal or antifungal effect on chronic infections of the CNS? This would explain why almost no effect is seen in young, healthy specimen - they don't have any infections to affect, and why many people develop tolerance - the infection develops a resistance to the racetam.

It might not be the racetam itself, but rather some metabolite of the racetam, that has the actual antibiotic/fungal effect. 

Also entirely possible is that racetams have some minor nootropic effects, such as modulating AMPA receptors in the case of Aniracetam, increasing expression of BDNF (even though I would suspect this to be an indirect effect of destroying infected cells), etc. - and then one of the metabolites has an antibiotic or antifungal effect which does the heavy lifting in those who experience considerable benefit from racetam usage.

I also suspect this is the possible reason for the efficacy of SSRI's on some psychiatric disorders. It's not the actual serotonin release - but an antibiotic or antifungal effect of the drug - or the effect of the migration of mast cells which is known to be affected by concentrations of serotonin - that is actual reason that these drugs have an effect. It could also be a combination.


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#2 medievil

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Posted 27 September 2014 - 07:51 PM

What if the moon is pink?
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#3 datrat

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 08:50 PM

Maybe you're on to something. http://www.scienceda...40929093856.htm



#4 Peder Holdgaard Pedersen

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 09:21 PM

If Racetams are indeed exercising an effect through an antibiotic or immunomodulatory effect, it would make sense with the recent study that showed some experimental CX ampakine had a pruning effect on overly long dendrites with long-term use - if one accepts that overly long dendrites are a compensatory mechanism, and not the cause of various neurological issues where they appear. 

There is also the very odd possibility that CDP-choline synergy with racetams has a similar reason. CDP-choline metabolizes almost immediately to cytidine and choline - and cytidine is a fundamental part of the innate antiviral response. Maybe it is not the choline that racetam usage needs - it is the cytidine. Just a random thought.



#5 Plasticperson

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 07:19 PM

piracetam gave me diarrhea some days its a possibility 



#6 8bitmore

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 11:44 PM

Wanted to hear everyone's opinion on this theory: What if racetams are completely misunderstood, and their mechanism of effect is an antibiotic, antiprotozoal or antifungal effect on chronic infections of the CNS? This would explain why almost no effect is seen in young, healthy specimen - they don't have any infections to affect, and why many people develop tolerance - the infection develops a resistance to the racetam.

It might not be the racetam itself, but rather some metabolite of the racetam, that has the actual antibiotic/fungal effect. 

Also entirely possible is that racetams have some minor nootropic effects, such as modulating AMPA receptors in the case of Aniracetam, increasing expression of BDNF (even though I would suspect this to be an indirect effect of destroying infected cells), etc. - and then one of the metabolites has an antibiotic or antifungal effect which does the heavy lifting in those who experience considerable benefit from racetam usage.

I also suspect this is the possible reason for the efficacy of SSRI's on some psychiatric disorders. It's not the actual serotonin release - but an antibiotic or antifungal effect of the drug - or the effect of the migration of mast cells which is known to be affected by concentrations of serotonin - that is actual reason that these drugs have an effect. It could also be a combination.

 

Something resonates with this line of thinking, it is worth looking into definitely. Of course the theory that it is a metabolite rather than the whole compound that causes the proposed anti-fungal/bacterial effect makes this rather impractical to test.. but there is certainly something to be said for the anti-viral potential of Piracetam itself:

 

Antiviral Activity of Piracetam, Y.M. Centifanto, Tulane University School
of Medicine, New Orleans, Louisiana (USA)

The effect of Piracetam (2-oxo-i pyrrodiline acetamide), a nootropic
drug, on herpes simplex virus (HSV) infections was examined. We found that
HSV replication on Vero cells was totally inhibited by the drug, even when
added 6 hr pi. The drug needed continuous contact with the infected cell
to exert its effect, suggesting a virustatic mode of action. Three types
of experiments were conducted for the in vivo studies: i) In the hairless
guinea pig model of herpetic recurrent disease, cellophane stripping of a
previously infected area induces the appearance of recurrent herpetic
lesions. Topical application of a 10% Piracetam to these areas inhibited
lesion formation by 70% as compared to the control; 2) Using the same system,
the drug at 20 mg/kg was given either orally or in the drinking water,
prevented lesion formation; 3) Female guinea pigs were infected in the
genital area with HSV-I (333) strain. After the primary lesions subsided,
and in the period of spontaneous recurrent lesions, the animals were given
oral doses of Piracetam for three consecutive weeks. We found that the
drug was effective in reducing the number of recurrent lesions on the
treated animals by more than 50%. Additional experiments with different
doses are now in progress. It is important to note that Piracetam has a
more definite inhibitory action on recurrent lesions as compared to a very
mild action on primary disease. We theorize that this beneficial effect on
the prevention of recurrent lesions may be related to their reported
cholinergic functions.

 

From: http://brainmeta.com...showtopic=18310



#7 abelard lindsay

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 12:59 AM

Piracetam can protect mitochondria from bacterial toxins such as lipopolysaccharide

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24882422

 

 
Free Radic Biol Med. 2014 Aug;73:278-90. doi: 10.1016/j.freeradbiomed.2014.05.014. Epub 2014 May 29.
The metabolic enhancer piracetam attenuates mitochondrion-specific endonuclease G translocation and oxidative DNA fragmentation.
Abstract

This study was performed to investigate the involvement of mitochondrion-specific endonuclease G in piracetam (P)-induced protective mechanisms. Studies have shown the antiapoptotic effects of piracetam but the mechanism of action of piracetam is still an enigma. To assess the involvement of endonuclease G in piracetam-induced protective effects, astrocyte glial cells were treated with lipopolysaccharide (LPS) and piracetam. LPS treatment caused significantly decreased viability, mitochondrial activity, oxidative stress, chromatin condensation, and DNA fragmentation, which were attenuated by piracetam cotreatment. Cotreatment of astrocytes with piracetam showed its significantly time-dependent absorption as observed with high-performance liquid chromatography. Astrocytes treated with piracetam alone showed enhanced mitochondrial membrane potential (MMP) in comparison to control astrocytes. However, in LPS-treated cells no significant alteration in MMP was observed in comparison to control cells. Protein and mRNA levels of the terminal executor of the caspase-mediated pathway, caspase-3, were not altered significantly in LPS or LPS + piracetam-treated astrocytes, whereas endonuclease G was significantly translocated to the nucleus in LPS-treated astrocytes. Piracetam cotreatment attenuated the LPS-induced endonuclease G translocation. In conclusion this study indicates that LPS treatment of astrocytes caused decreased viability, oxidative stress, mitochondrial dysfunction, chromatin condensation, DNA damage, and translocation of endonuclease G to the nucleus, which was inhibited by piracetam cotreatment, confirming that the mitochondrion-specific endonuclease G is one of the factors involved in piracetam-induced protective mechanisms.

Copyright © 2014 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

 

 

 



#8 Flex

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 12:28 PM

Quiet strange that Piracetam protects mitochondria, but causes also oxidative damage

http://www.longecity...nd-vinpocetine/


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#9 Metagene

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 11:33 PM

Quiet strange that Piracetam protects mitochondria, but causes also oxidative damage
http://www.longecity...nd-vinpocetine/


IIRC piracetam lacks free radical scavenging capabilities as well. I posted a link to the full study in another thread so maybe you can comb over if have time.

#10 Flex

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 11:42 PM

 

Quiet strange that Piracetam protects mitochondria, but causes also oxidative damage
http://www.longecity...nd-vinpocetine/


IIRC piracetam lacks free radical scavenging capabilities as well. I posted a link to the full study in another thread so maybe you can comb over if have time.

 

 

I guess You mean this:

http://www.longecity...ams-dose/page-7
 

Edit: Cool, Interresting findings


Edited by Flex, 02 October 2014 - 11:44 PM.


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#11 Metagene

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 12:46 AM

Thanks I should have just checked google drive.

https://docs.google....OFg2bUE/preview





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