9 replies to this topic

[yellowkitty]

Hello all!

 

About 3 weeks ago I was sitting with a friend in a cafe when I suddenly felt really uncomfortable and anxious and the intensity of  being looked at by my friend (which has never happened before as she is a good friend). I suddenly got an extreme uncontrollable urge to twitch my head. I had to excuse myself as I was so embarrassed. I also felt slightly hot and dizzy.

 

This got worse and worse and now every time I speak to someone I am anticipating this head twitch and it is causing a catch-22. I cannot seem to control it. It is such a strong sensation - my neck gets stiff and it feels like there is a sort of electrical current going up my neck and around my head. It feels like I cannot move my head and neck at times and other times like I cannot control the muscles and they are spasming.

 

Dr first prescribed me propranolol which didn't do anything except made me feel worse - I still had the head spasms but sweating too. Dr next prescribed sertraline (not sure how effective this is for anxiety but she seemed to think it is). Anyway, I have been taking this for 2 days and seem to have developed hand tremors. The head twitch is still there and seems to be exacerbated by this new drug which would defeat the point of taking it.

 

I really really need to find something to get me back to my old self. I cannot go through life either avoiding social situations or twitching and feeling like I am going to have a full blown panic attack every time I have to speak to people. 

 

I would like to find something natural and effective however, I have tried a lot of natural things in the past for my mild anxiety and the only thing that helped was magnesium which I have been taking for about a year. I also take vitamin D 5000 a few times a week to get my chronically low levels up.

 

I have no idea what set off this new extreme anxiety. The only new thing I did was take 2 capsules of this supplement; http://www.nowfoods....eg-Capsules.htm but I stopped taking it immediately after the fateful day at the cafe and I don't see how 2 doses could cause ongoing symptoms.

 

I am thinking of getting some phenibut or something like that because I don't think my Dr will prescribe me a benzo and I wouldn't want to risk addiction. I know phenibut has a lot of tolerance and addiction problems but at the moment I feel like there is nothing else that will calm my extreme anxiety down enough that is natural. Most natural products don't seem to even touch it.

 

If anyone can help, I would really appreciate it as I am scared that I will be stuck like this forever. I also have a family and I need to be well for them obviously. Thanks in advance.

[Quibblius Pogorra]

Hello other person who suffers what seems to be a completely obscure and alienating problem with neck twitching and or hand tremors. About 8 years ago I was in the same boat. I could find no answers on this specific problem. Hopefully I can help now. This no longer effects me. 

Phenibut is great. DO NOT use it for this. Or more than once a week, you'll tell yourself you'll use it just for this then use it as a crutch for every social situation. Then your tolerance and addiction will both escalate till you withdraw from it and spend a week wanting to die, being fearful of everything ain general malaize dysphoria, dark thoughts etc. Not that I would know. No but really, phenibut is great but its magic is special use it once a week max. I'll post more in response to your actual problem as well soon. Or pm me me if oyu like. This made my life anxious hell for years, ruined my self confidence, job opportunities and made me feel like some kind of head case if I wasn't neurotic enough. I'll just say, face it; face the fear. Twitch that head. The more you retreat, the more you fear the fear, the worse it gets till you have other fears in front of that fear, i spent years looking for answers, found relief in benzos or alcohol, and then I stepped off allmy medication, faced the world for what it is; preferring to be myself and stick it to everyone that had a problem with that. You've become acutely aware of the situation, you think the other person has too; you become increasingly focused on you, your breathing becomes shallower - oh shit you're really sinking the boat now, you're acting liek a weirdo in front of someone you know so well, what will they think; surely they'll tell others and others and the shame. 

Im just showing you a potential cascading thought pattern, it's all in your head. and neck as it would be. stretch it out, thik about other things, clue back intothe convo, take less stimulants; get more exercise. What oyu have to do is the hardest option, that is the the solution, as someone who's been there, solved the problem and spend forever trying, trust me random internet friend. I wish someone else had been there those years ago. You're forming habits every time you react this way, the more you do the stronger those synaptic pathways become, the worse it gets, the more likely you'll develop a phobia. Eventually you will avoid all social contact or will have positive social contact and fear being set off and shattering the illusion or assumptions of your perception in the minds of others, that woah this guy/girl is actually weird, a freak. No you just have some anxiety. The pills will mask it not solve it, nothing wrong with medication, just dont expect it to fix this. 

So back to habits, keep challenging it, keep letting it twitch, ignore it; continue the convo. if someone finds it weird, they'll say something, subtle body language is not acknowledgement of your twitching. I used to think I would feed my anxiety into others around me. You're self concious, TOO self concious but again you need to just keep being you, snap back into convo. No one notices those things but you. I explained the neck twitch thing, the tension to numerous friends i was certain saw me doing it; I felt i had to justify my strangeness. Really it then just made me sound like a real head case... no one noticed it but me, that's right. It's ok to move, you do it all the time, you're just concious of it at that moment. Remember, shy away, re-inforce the twitching it gets worse. Face it now while its easiest ( I KNOW it's hard, you dont want to but you want solutions, this is it) every conversation before you became aware of this response was fine, nothing triggers this but awareness. Ive seen people grasp at everything from having tried cannabis to playing FPS games, to GAD or SAD. It can turn into those anxiety disorders or fuel them but it is just a physical manifestation.

I know I assume a lot in this post but if you are going through what you posted I assume correctly. Did your friend even bat an eyelid at your reaction? I doubt it, as you got progressively weirder and stopped following what they were saying and let anxiety rule due to this sudden awareness; they may wonder what is up...but it's not the neck twitching. I had some PTSD which complicated this and resulted in hyper vigilance, so I found this awareness very difficult to overcome. But the more I understood the human brain and how to change my thinking the more i've conquered it.

Remember you choose to let it be debilitating, the axniety is a product of the anticipation of the symptom, you are fearing the fear and causing more anxiety. Never fear fear. Keep on twitching, might take a month, might take 6, keep on tolerating and doing your thing; I've also dealt with hand tremors not from meds but just from me. I had poeple ask if I had a nerve disorder ( in order to be cruel and make me out to be different, it's their insecurities. In group out group crap in my situation anyhow. Also please be careful with phenibut. It can be an aamzing experience but like benzo's you'll become dependant. Only toleranc eon phenibut is ridiculous in its increase. My advice, exercise, meditate; ride this out. 

[Quibblius Pogorra]

Oh so I checked your pills, the DMAE is what will have brought on this hyper awareness, its pretty much an amphetamine. Chances are teh conversation will only occupy a base level unless its particualrly thought provoking. Caffeine will have a potentiating effect. But my point is your mind is turning things over much quicker, DMAE is actually bannedin a lot of places now. I dont know its safety profile but that stack otherwise looks good, oh and once you get used to this or just face it down you can have coffee or whatever it doesn't matter. The awareness cannot be taken away but once again the pathways can be re-mapped. Do it asap, the more you fear and anticipate this shite the longer it takes to undo. I've been on propranolol myself and it only stops adrenaline, you still twitch which sucks. This shows you the physical manifestation comes from your mind rather than an uncontrollable tick or physical response.

[yellowkitty]

Oh so I checked your pills, the DMAE is what will have brought on this hyper awareness, its pretty much an amphetamine. Chances are teh conversation will only occupy a base level unless its particualrly thought provoking. Caffeine will have a potentiating effect. But my point is your mind is turning things over much quicker, DMAE is actually bannedin a lot of places now. I dont know its safety profile but that stack otherwise looks good, oh and once you get used to this or just face it down you can have coffee or whatever it doesn't matter. The awareness cannot be taken away but once again the pathways can be re-mapped. Do it asap, the more you fear and anticipate this shite the longer it takes to undo. I've been on propranolol myself and it only stops adrenaline, you still twitch which sucks. This shows you the physical manifestation comes from your mind rather than an uncontrollable tick or physical response.

 

Thank you so much for such a long and detailed reply. I feel spoilt by your attention  but seriously I think you are spot on. I think the "trigger" was probably something in the True Focus + caffeine and since then, as you say, my awareness of the twitch/tremor is producing a self-fulfilling prophecy and by thinking about I am getting more anxious and this is producing more of it. 

 

I have not stopped going out. I have kids so cannot do this and don't want to. I realised early on that if I start retreating I will become agoraphobic and that will be it - no life. 

 

Some days it feels better than others and I think the sertraline is helping a bit but I don't like being on anti-depressants and have cut down to 25mg which has more or less stopped my hand tremors although I still feel very jittery. I have also limited caffeine to once or twice a day in the morning. This morning was bad though and I thought I was going to faint taking my child in to nursery. Having to speak to others (which would previously be ok) and now I feel like I have this build up of pressure in my head like I am going to lose control. The anxiety of this happening causes an adrenaline rush which causes the twitch which causes anxiety rinse and repeat. 

 

What I find shocking is that one dose of DMAE can cause this. On another forum someone else agreed that DMAE causes these symptoms.

 

Re: Phenibut that was something I was considering but I am always in two minds about because it is a double edged sword and like anything that seems miraculous the other side is quick tolerance, dependence and horrible withdrawals for those coming off it.

 

Magnesium helps me a lot too (it has always helped with my anxiety) but changing a behavioural response to a trigger is much harder. What I was looking for was something which would temporarily stop the twitch/adrenaline response so my brain no longer makes the connection between talking to people and having the twitch. If I am not anxious then I will not twitch and the connection is broken. The problem is, as you say, relying on a drug to do this whereas I have to do it myself.

 

Thank you again internet friend, your post really helped a lot. Lots of food for thought. 

[Quibblius Pogorra]

All good! I spent so much time scouring the net...it's such an obscure problem to express, or get across, and not be confused with other things or tics, lack of muscle control, and points i've mentioned aboveetc etc. 

Definitely stay on the medication if it is helping, you will know when you are ready if you are sincere about improving . Use it until you can delve into what you need to, it's important to be what you need to be for your kids for sure, in the scheme of things it's an incredibly minor malady, but it really did a number on my life first; so it's all relative but at least it's not incurable or something deeper routed. Also while the DHEA made you aware it would have happened at some stage in your life from too much coffee or at any moment regardless; in some ways you are lucky to have this happen now rather than later. I saw this thread by complete accident, i don't even know what it was that got me here! I was looking up completely irrelevant nootropics Then just had to have a laugh that I'm not the only one with this going on, I felt glad; and had I not been where I am I'd probably have just exacerbated your symptoms.

The whole awareness thing, anticipation: it's almost like a mind trap for over thinkers.

I'm used to solving all my own problems and I was damn certain I'd solve this one somehow some way...never did I think it would be during the hardest part of it all that I did.

I had tried just facing the fears down but the lack of those fears being de-fanged or blunted when I did so ( i expected maybe a few times and i'd be set but no...) it  just freaked me out more. I felt even less capable of dealing but I kept on keeping on, it was just absolutely exhausting working full time and then public transport back home where I couldn't switch off... and believe me; I know how you feel - I've gone through panic attacks several times before in my life, and I know that feeling of when you've just been brutalised or at least it feels that way, but it's a gradual thing...I thought I'd have this for life no one was of any help, it's such a specific abstracted thing.

It's no weakness to use the meds, I even tell friends this and it is your life at the end of the day; Drugs are amazing tools for lateral thinking, new perspectives and insights into mindsets you would normally retreat from or not consider due to an adrenal or conditioned habitual response.
Here's what I find insidious about this one though, due to the anticipatory nature, you are constantly priming that pathway, it's getting soo much attention because you're trying so hard to solve it; you forget how you even were before this, so you look for events, you look for anything...but it's just that awareness. The event is exactly what you're doing, hence the trap   

Also I've learnt to deal with adrenaline response effectively too; this was always a major problem of mine once the adrenaline dropped...i'd lose my shit; now once it drops it doesn't matter, I standup for myself, I'm not afraid of intimidating people,they're puffed up bullies that are insecure themselves.
Even when I landed my dream job I ended up feeling very uncomfortable as the pressure to be at my best and the anticipatory reactions were combining in horrible ways. Peoples eye contact started setting me off, I'd become timid and scared, I felt like this cowardly shadow of myself, but I hadn't even faced that yet. This is where physical exercise comes in too - despite the mentally enhancing effects and neurotransmitter cascades released, serotonin,dopa, noradrenaline, gaba; you feel more sociable you feel more confident.Don't underestimate this one! It's as important as any medication if not more.

 as it did for me among a few others  I ended up on benzos finally when i'd let this thing invade too many areas of my life and erode my confidence. I did a lot of freelance work so im used to EXCESSIVE time by myself in an empty place, which is pretty damn conducive to making you more neurotic...

I became borderline agoraphobic which is why I ended up deciding to opt for the benzos route, obviously doctors are hesitant to do this but I chose the least toxic and most proven anxiolytic I could; I just wasn't coping and I couldn't take time out then (i respond horrible to the uptake inhibitors, couldn't pay me to take that poison, ssri's particularly but it works great for some people. And yeah I knew all the pharmacology I was getting myself into) but the most important thing was during the time period the benzos were effective...I learnt I could just be me, twitches, rough edges, whatever; and people loved me more for just speaking my mind rather than keeping it all in my head and analysing it till wits end (my life is better than ever currently) I also worked heavily on my health and fitness again, something I've done for the last 10 years but really stepped it up... got to be confident in your own skin

I have no kids and i was touched to find my friends and family and people i'd helped in the past were there for me in kind if they could understand, mostly I was too proud to reach out and felt so stupid.. such a weird trivial thing, explaining that to someone; everytime they'rer just a bit *does not compute* puzzled, which doesn't help, haha.
The support defeated a lot of my cynicism. Ultimately though...the day I dropped it was about (6 months into daily use) tolerance always built on the benzos, i refused to keep upping my dosage, panic and anxiety was returning, and i absolutely hated the fact I was physically addicted to them. If i lost a bottle or misplaced it or anything, that alone would set me off after say 10 minutes of coping, i'd start to freak out...this was as stressful as a panic attack anyway!

Psychological addiction I can deal with, its just in my head and temporary neurotransmitter imbalances. Cakewalk compared to that physical feedback loop. It's the same reason you find it so hard btw. Not that you're addicted and your meds are losing effecacy but more that physical feeds back into mental, mental feeds back into physical. Ultimately you need to not let mental prompt physical though. What really worked for me was being in the throws of serious withdrawal, tapered too fast myself...stuck in a waiting room waiting, my doc hours late; and then having to keep a cool. If you can make it through above normal anxiety situations e.g. extreme anxiety, you can definitely deal with normal anxiety etc.

The biggest thing to try and do is don't anticipate. The moment you do you've broken attention, you're waiting for that next eye contact or that next gesture and then for whatever reason you'll react to it? Worst is it makes you just feel... really foolish, but it's important not to beat up on yourself; this just adds to it again.

A book you should read I think will really help (dont worry it's not some obscure crazy thing: hey look scientology or the bible (haha, freedom of beliefs and all but just kidding) http://www.amazon.co...k/dp/B0055PGUYU  (mine is white and red but i believe that's it same author same topic. This will teach you about the pathways I was vaguely referring to before. This book will make you realise... If you cant afford it torrent it, borrow it; do what you have to. It's amazing. It's late im tired and my paragraphs are everywhere. Hope this helps!

Best of luck!

[Quibblius Pogorra]

Oh! And nootropic wise, if you haven't look into l-theanine (nice subtle anxiety relief and cognitive enhancer) GABA just itself can help with sleep and a bit of relaxation and im a big user of magnesium myself! I stepped off coffee as it doesn't help...but a week later coffee it is again. But now to take it easier.

[yellowkitty]

Oh! And nootropic wise, if you haven't look into l-theanine (nice subtle anxiety relief and cognitive enhancer) GABA just itself can help with sleep and a bit of relaxation and im a big user of magnesium myself! I stepped off coffee as it doesn't help...but a week later coffee it is again. But now to take it easier.

 

I've tried suntheanine and didn't notice any effects. I am going to give baicalin a try as it has some great anxiolytic properties apparently. Might also try curcumin too along with all the mental stuff. Need to take a look at  the book,thanks for the recommendation. 

 

What do you think about asking my Dr for baclofen? It's similar to phenibut but seems to be less extreme. Might also stop the head shaking/twitch as it is a muscle relaxant. Doubt they will give it to me though as it's not generally prescribed for anxiety in the UK.

[Flex]

I remeber getting head twitches from a neuroleptic called risperdal.

Perhaps something is altered in regards of monoamines e.g. too much 5-ht (2a ?) activation, High or Low Dopamine and so on

or Cholinergic system which oppses sometimes the Dopaminergic system, as the 5-ht does it.

 

Try Acetyl-Carnitine perhaps it might work at least for the anxiety

Edited by Flex, 07 October 2014 - 06:05 PM.

[Quibblius Pogorra]

You could ask? I'd have no idea but that it's similar to phenibut.
I've heard of picamilon? Apparently it relieves anxiety, its like vitamin b + gaba?
Dont know if its less than pheni in terms of addiction or abuse, I dont have time right this sec to research more into it but it's not obtainable from anywhere i know of but maybe look into it.
 always used theanine powder, way cheaper in bulk; i'd heard friends say suntheanine was reliable but i've not tried it. 

Maybe look into Coluracetam? Seems people are saying it has anti-depressant and huge anxiolytic potential. Not sure if it has any gaba action as it seems to upregulate choline receptors etc. and racetams dont  usually act on gaba. But then there are many, so who knows (someone) not me right now. As much as I love researching new and novel nootropics etc.

[yellowkitty]

Thanks. Picamilon seems to be not as affective as phenibut for most people. It is gaba with a niacin molecule attached to pass the blood brain barrier. It's also a lot more expensive than phenibut. I can get it from Liftmode but I'd prefer to get phenibut if my anxiety doesn't improve as a last resort.

 

I'll have a look into coluracetam. What do you think about tianeptine? That seems to get a lot of positive comments about it.

Edited by yellowkitty, 10 October 2014 - 08:04 PM.