162 replies to this topic

[Kewell357]

 

there said to be a D5. D6 and D7 haven't been found yet.

 

upon research seems like cabergoline works on the D2 receptor. 

 

deprenyl works on the dopanime receptor as well but I didn't specifically find which one but it does something to the substancia nigra.

 

 

Good to know:
D1 enhances learning

D2 improves focus (less procrastination and less multitasking)
D3 is associated with motor and reward-related behaviour
D4 is associated with novelty seeking; people with this genetic factor tend to be extroverted, quick tempered, impulsive and easily bored.

 

 

 

Are D1 and D4 responsible for anything else?

[eon]

Hi everyone,

 

All those amphetamine talk in this thread, I wonder what you people think of Selegiline (Deprenyl)? While it isn't an amphetamine, it is from the levomethamphetamine. It is an MAO-B drug. It is marketed as anti-Parkinson's  drug but also for depression and several other ailments (off label). I just want to bring this up because I may be looking into getting it. I wonder what it does to ADHD. I would think since it works for depression it could fix the depressive symptoms of ADHD? Maybe ADHD starts off as depression then it turns into ADHD (considering depression is allegedly an inflammation)? So once a person is depressed the immune system's response may show signs of ADHD symptoms which in turn why some people get diagnosed with ADHD instead of the real problem. Just my hunch, but there may be something to this according to these articles:

 

 

Stress-related inflammation may increase risk for depression

 

http://medicalxpress...depression.html

 

Analgesics and anti-inflammatory drugs may have an impact on depression

 

http://medicalxpress...depression.html

 

Inflammation tied to depressive symptoms in new T2DM

 

http://medicalxpress...ptoms-t2dm.html

 

 

 

Edited by eon, 06 February 2015 - 11:17 PM.

[eon]

So I'm on Vyvanse now 10 mg. Just low dose to start with. I'm curious what vitamins should I not take along with it? I'm aware of acidic vitamins such as C should not be taken also sodium bicarbonate should not be consumed either:

 

"Agents that alter urinary pH can impact urinary excretion and alter blood levels of amphetamine. Acidifying agents (e.g., ascorbic acid) decrease blood levels, while alkalinizing agents (e.g., sodium bicarbonate) increase blood levels."

http://www.drugs.com...ge/vyvanse.html

 

Would some vitamins have some interactions with an amphetamine considering if the profile of the vitamin is neuroactive? Is it OK to take the b vitamins with it? I would assume there would be synergy? I haven't taken my b vitamins ever since I started taking Vyvanse.

 

I'm also curious if I can take an amphetamine only when I feel like it the way I did with nootropics (phenylpiracetam once or twice week). The doctor said it should be taken everyday (that's because they want to write prescriptions as often as possible)!

Edited by eon, 11 May 2015 - 08:02 AM.

[Downregulate]

Hi everyone,

 

All those amphetamine talk in this thread, I wonder what you people think of Selegiline (Deprenyl)? While it isn't an amphetamine, it is from the levomethamphetamine. It is an MAO-B drug. It is marketed as anti-Parkinson's  drug but also for depression and several other ailments (off label). I just want to bring this up because I may be looking into getting it. I wonder what it does to ADHD. I would think since it works for depression it could fix the depressive symptoms of ADHD? Maybe ADHD starts off as depression then it turns into ADHD (considering depression is allegedly an inflammation)? So once a person is depressed the immune system's response may show signs of ADHD symptoms which in turn why some people get diagnosed with ADHD instead of the real problem. Just my hunch, but there may be something to this according to these articles:

 

 

Stress-related inflammation may increase risk for depression

 

http://medicalxpress...depression.html

 

Analgesics and anti-inflammatory drugs may have an impact on depression

 

http://medicalxpress...depression.html

 

Inflammation tied to depressive symptoms in new T2DM

 

http://medicalxpress...ptoms-t2dm.html

Well I feel like I have the symptoms for inattentive add but I take bcm-95 turmeric extract a couple of times daily, along with bioperine to further help absorption, so I guess my depressive issues aren't inflammatory related, or maybe they could possibly be worse had I not been taking the curcumin. But Ive definitely had the problems with a lack of energy and extreme procrastination. I cant deal with amphetamines responsibly though, as Im prescribed adderall now and I know Im gonna just have to not take pick up a new script when this one runs out. I wonder how the segeline patch would be?

[TheBatman]

 

is meth or amphetamines any good for OCD? I would think it is due to it making one have "focus" considering OCD is of intrusive thoughts and pretty much you lose focus. I can't find any info. regarding meth's role in treating OCD.

It seems like it can be.

 

I would assume, inferring from my experience with d-amp, that 1.25 or 2.5mg d-meth would be reasonable to start at. Though of course over time higher doses would mellow down.

My main reason for having used the low doses is my heart can't stand this stuff (D-meth should be more mild in this regard), though they do work. 

 

 

It depends on the person. Some people say it makes them do more repetitive or obsessive tasks, but others say it helps them clear their mind and focus on whatever is more important to them. You really just have to try it and find out for yourself.

 

Out of the two I would guess that Dmeth is less likely to cause ocd like behavior, but no doctor is going to prescribe it to you before dex-amp, or probably at all.

Edited by TheBatman, 12 May 2015 - 02:36 AM.

[eon]

you're right, I feel as if my OCD isn't any worse than before when I'm on Vyvanse. It's almost as if I don't even have OCD considering I am focused and productive whereas people with OCD aren't productive. I would think OCD is a form of unfocusedness disorder, if such thing exist.

 

 

 

 

is meth or amphetamines any good for OCD? I would think it is due to it making one have "focus" considering OCD is of intrusive thoughts and pretty much you lose focus. I can't find any info. regarding meth's role in treating OCD.

It seems like it can be.

 

I would assume, inferring from my experience with d-amp, that 1.25 or 2.5mg d-meth would be reasonable to start at. Though of course over time higher doses would mellow down.

My main reason for having used the low doses is my heart can't stand this stuff (D-meth should be more mild in this regard), though they do work. 

 

 

It depends on the person. Some people say it makes them do more repetitive or obsessive tasks, but others say it helps them clear their mind and focus on whatever is more important to them. You really just have to try it and find out for yourself.

 

Out of the two I would guess that Dmeth is less likely to cause ocd like behavior, but no doctor is going to prescribe it to you before dex-amp, or probably at all.

 

 

Edited by eon, 12 May 2015 - 10:11 AM.

[eon]

got a few questions about amphetamines; is it ok to do intense workouts when on it? I have done it and I was fine. I'm just asking in general. Someone mentioned to me it's a different story with methamphetamines though as one shouldn't overheat or overexert themselves? I feel stronger on amphetamine actually.

 

Another curiosity of mine is if I should avoid those neuroactive b vitamins with Vyvanse? I can't find info. regarding this but I'm assuming it's ok to take the b vitamins as long as not at the same time so to avoid any interactions. I read that vitamin C drives out the amphetamine so it's best to take it 12 hours after your amphetamine dose or before sleep (it's what I do anyway), while sodium bicarbonate increase amphetamine blood levels.

 

 

 

 

Update:

 

I just go my usually script for dex from the psychiatrist. My plan is use a 10-20 mg 3-5 days per week, with racetams on days off. Fishoil, Magnesium, Vit D3, B complex, and Zinc daily.

 

Vit C after my dex begins to wear off

 

[eon]

Any updates on Fasoracetam and Hakon Hakonarson's research on it regarding for ADHD use? It's already almost the end of May, I thought it should be available by now. Where is it?

 

Yes, I have ADHD-PI, the variant without hyper-activity, and more motivational problems.

 

*here's a bit of bragging and ranting to support my fragile ego*

 

Much like I imagine is the case for you, and others on this site, since I didn't have hyperactivity and had some talents in other areas, the disease was masked when I was a child, and it was not picked up on. I even went through some form of testing in second grade, since I was quite shy, different, etc, but they concluded that I was simply " highly intelligent and simply a bit quirky".

 

Alas, that was a poor testing, as it meant that my fairly complex neurological issues went untreated, which lead to tremendous issues when reaching adulthood.

 

A few years back I set out on a quest of self-improvement however, and began taking myself apart and analyzing the contents. I then came to my own conclusion that I had the diagnosis ADHD-PI-DCD-DC, and set forth to get a proper test done - which corroborated my own hypothesis. Treatment has now begun, but I find the treatment-options in my own country to be fairly outdated, which is a definite source of negative emotions.

 

/end rant

 

I haven't tried Faso, and actually think it may very well turn out to be quite useful - I'm no longer recommending it tho', since we don't have the data necessary to make conclusions on which perticular patient-groups will benefit from it.

We will have fairly soon tho', the primary researcher of Fasoracetam, Hakon Hakonarson, will be publishing his trial-report in may - that should give some nice meaty data on the potential for Faso.

 

If you have OCD and depression, you should definitely check out Intuniv ( guanfacine), as it is not just looking to be efficient in treating ADHD, but also appears to be a very robust anxiolytic and anti-depressant - they're doing testing for OCD and PTSD as well.

 

GetOutofBox on these boards, which was on Intuniv for some time, actually noted clear effects on his own OCD and anxiety while on it, so I definitely recommend it.

 

[eon]

I don't get why the pharmaceutical companies do not make a suggestion of taking vitamins along with the amphetamines. Today, I tried b12 (methylcobalamin) and it seemed to make the Vyvanse I'm taking a little bit better. I didn't feel any fatigue during midday or any lethargy. What else should I be taking with Vyvanse and what to avoid?

[Mind_Paralysis]

Well, Zinc and Magnesium are the classics. Zinc since it's used in the body's synthesis of Dopamine, and Magnesium because it slows down tolerance.

 

And good question regarding where the report from the research-results are. I've been trying to find the pilot study on pubmed all night, but seem to be coming up short.

I'll try and e-mail Dr Hakonarson himself tomorrow, and see if he's got something to share with the public now.

 

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 02 June 2015 - 01:38 AM.

[eon]

Great!

 

The thing about magnesium slowing down amphetamine tolerance, I agree. Most people at some add forum have mentioned to take magnesium (and vitamin C) only when bedtime comes so it drives out the amphetamine, I would think this makes one not get used to the amphetamine. I actually don't feel it being addicting but then again Vyvanse has low abuse potential. I would think I should start taking zinc again prior to taking Vyvanse. I had stopped taking it to get a feel of Vyvanse first, without the vitamins and minerals I was taking, Vyvanse feel weak.

 

I also have Lovaza (prescription omega-3s) and since this is also prescribed for someone with ADHD, should I be taking this at night since I'm taking Vyvanse in the morning? My doctor says yes but if anyone here know what the reason is, I'd like to know. Is it because Vyvanse do not mix well with omega-3s? I can't find any drug interaction info. anywhere online. I'm not sure if water solubles (Vyvanse) should be mixed at the same time with fat solubles.

 

 

Well, Zinc and Magnesium are the classics. Zinc since it's used in the body's synthesis of Dopamine, and Magnesium because it slows down tolerance.

 

And good question regarding where the report from the research-results are. I've been trying to find the pilot study on pubmed all night, but seem to be coming up short.

I'll try and e-mail Dr Hakonarson himself tomorrow, and see if he's got something to share with the public now.

 

Edited by eon, 02 June 2015 - 06:18 AM.

[TheBatman]

 

Great!

 

The thing about magnesium slowing down amphetamine tolerance, I agree. Most people at some add forum have mentioned to take magnesium (and vitamin C) only when bedtime comes so it drives out the amphetamine, I would think this makes one not get used to the amphetamine. I actually don't feel it being addicting but then again Vyvanse has low abuse potential. I would think I should start taking zinc again prior to taking Vyvanse. I had stopped taking it to get a feel of Vyvanse first, without the vitamins and minerals I was taking, Vyvanse feel weak.

 

I also have Lovaza (prescription omega-3s) and since this is also prescribed for someone with ADHD, should I be taking this at night since I'm taking Vyvanse in the morning? My doctor says yes but if anyone here know what the reason is, I'd like to know. Is it because Vyvanse do not mix well with omega-3s? I can't find any drug interaction info. anywhere online. I'm not sure if water solubles (Vyvanse) should be mixed at the same time with fat solubles.

 

 

Well, Zinc and Magnesium are the classics. Zinc since it's used in the body's synthesis of Dopamine, and Magnesium because it slows down tolerance.

 

And good question regarding where the report from the research-results are. I've been trying to find the pilot study on pubmed all night, but seem to be coming up short.

I'll try and e-mail Dr Hakonarson himself tomorrow, and see if he's got something to share with the public now.

 

The most useful supplements I take to help increase adderalls effectiveness (aside from magnesium and zinc) are 5-htp, tyrosine, vitamin D3, and some sort of antioxidant like blueberries. I don't take these supplements everyday because I don't like building a tolerance to anything. I just wait for about 2 days after I use anything before using them again. (except blueberries, if I could afford to eat them everyday I would :D)

 

If you really want to avoid tolerance to amphetamines, then I wouldn't take it every day. Of course not everyone has this option though. There are also a few other NMDA antagonists options though besides magnesium, but they're not exactly healthy for you. Also some people think they have a tolerance when really they just don't get enough restful sleep.

 

I wouldn't think the omega 3 would really interfere, but I don't really know how vyvanse is converted into amphetamine so maybe it does. I would suggest taking it at night only or switching to Dexedrine if you can. Vyvanse is the pro-drug to dexedrine, so there are a bit more complications with vyvanse like getting the dosage right consistently. Overall it just has more variables that make it less practical. I think the only reason vyvanse is really used commonly is because its "harder to abuse",

[eon]

caffeine made me feel hyperactive, I know it's the caffeine, dose, and sugar content. There was once upon a time that my elders would tell me not to drink coffee and too much sweets causes hyperactivity. I felt this when drinking a large sweet tea from mcdonald's (no ice means the amount of the tea become more, like 3 cup servings). So upon taking a 10 mg Dexedrine Spansule, I felt really calm. I wonder if my elders were right about the effects of caffeine and sweets. Sweets seem to be a myth but maybe not so much?

 

A guy I know with ADHD who mentioned he was on Ritalin as a child had told me coffee relaxes him, yet his OCD and hoarding is showing. I know caffeine can make one OCD at times, depending on individual.