D2 improves focus (less procrastination and less multitasking) D3 is associated with motor and reward-related behaviour D4 is associated with novelty seeking; people with this genetic factor tend to be extroverted, quick tempered, impulsive and easily bored.
I use methylfolate sorry I forgot to mention. Those crap that came in multi vitamins are folic acid, which is the reason why I don't take multis anymore. Not sure if that was what you meant by just "folate" which is folic acid. Most people are clueless and still take multis not knowing it damages them. Cheap ingredients are used in multis.
I believe my over training in high school caused my depression (among other reasons). I had huge pecs without the use of any vitamins or steroids. I don't know how I did it. It was just will till it damaged me. My chest is developed. The only good thing about the situation. I should have known better to supplement then but then again OTC products are not usually sufficient and back then I never thought about using "illegal drugs". Currently I workout intensely without the use of steroids but with proper supplementation. I even use glucose pre and post workout. I think it lessens that weird feeling you get in your head. You know that feeling?
What is your take on the Anavar steroid? I've used it by itself. It's not a bulking steroid but a cutting one. It's popular but expensive. I've always viewed a steroid as more for physical than mental but now I'm reading more info. that it's as good for mental as well. Still trying to find out why.
Regarding ALCAR I've used it as much as 1g per day. I should have lowered it to your suggested dose. It did make me anxious considering the B vitamins I was on as well.
Regarding the D's you listed, what are those? A type of vitamin D? I take D3. Is this what you mean by the D's?
I'm still trying to figure out the ill effects of intense training (without steroid and or supplementing).
Don't knock stimulants, I've read they have their place in some people's lives.
Alrighty. Yes, folic acid and folate are synonymous.
Seems like overtraining worsens ADHD symptoms a lot. By overtraining I do not mean "hours spent in the gym". Overtraining can stem from just a 30 minutes powerlifting session three times a week. When you push "over your limits" your central nervous system will burn. Pushing over the limits ain't a problem with steroids. Training naturally should be more holistic training. Taking it easy, doing the techniques slowly without jerking the weights, etc. (to avoid injuries, because we do not heal as fast as roid users).
I know the feeling you are talking about. However, I've done intermittent fasting with just 10g of BCAA before training sessions. I would say that carbs are not necessary for results. However having carbs in the system before training feels less taxing to the CNS, which is why I've stopped intermittent fasting.
I do not support the use of oral steroids. If you are going to do it, then please do it the right way: inject it. Injectables are much safer than orals. Injections won't mess up your liver.
D1, D2, D3, D4 = Dopamine receptors.
Stimulants will never take care of the main problems. They will of course be helpful, but I think upregulating one's dopamine receptors is a smarter idea.
I use methylfolate sorry I forgot to mention. Those crap that came in multi vitamins are folic acid, which is the reason why I don't take multis anymore. Not sure if that was what you meant by just "folate" which is folic acid. Most people are clueless and still take multis not knowing it damages them. Cheap ingredients are used in multis.
I believe my over training in high school caused my depression (among other reasons). I had huge pecs without the use of any vitamins or steroids. I don't know how I did it. It was just will till it damaged me. My chest is developed. The only good thing about the situation. I should have known better to supplement then but then again OTC products are not usually sufficient and back then I never thought about using "illegal drugs". Currently I workout intensely without the use of steroids but with proper supplementation. I even use glucose pre and post workout. I think it lessens that weird feeling you get in your head. You know that feeling?
What is your take on the Anavar steroid? I've used it by itself. It's not a bulking steroid but a cutting one. It's popular but expensive.
Regarding ALCAR I've used it as much as 1g per day. I should have lowered it to your suggested dose. It did make me anxious considering the B vitamins I was on as well.
Regarding the D's you listed, what are those? A type of vitamin D? I take D3. Is this what you mean by the D's?
I'm still trying to figure out the ill effects of intense training (without steroid and or supplementing).
Don't knock stimulants, I've read they have their place in some people's lives.
One of the cardinal signs of depression is memory impairment
- Acetyl-L-Carnitine (increases acetylcholine levels) improves spatial working memory deficits
- Dopaminergic stimulation facilitates working memory (this is why stimulants works for you, but when they run out you are not performing well)
D1, D2 and acetylcholine are related to working memory.
Get some Huperzine A and see how it affects your memory and mood.
Here you can read about the importance of DHA and Uridine. This is a stack that Mr. Happy "designed" for us here on longecity. http://www.reddit.co...ridine_cured_my
Instead of 10ml fish oil, I would go with 2x500mg DHA capsules. It's more convenient and even a bit cheaper.
The uridine has to be without any fillers so it can be absorbed sublingually.
anavar generally come in as orals only, I have injectables as well test acetate and masteron.
I had no clue about overtraining messes with ADHD symptoms some more which I already had to begin with as a teen. My workouts lasted hours in high school 2x a day (1 at home and 1 in the school). These days only 30 minutes and with better supplementation. I really screwed up then. I had no clue. Why does overtraining "burn" the CNS?People and the media always market excercise as "good for you" without the mention of anything else.
Someone there linked an article regarding catecholamines? And to eat lots of carbs post workout within 1 hour to feed the muscles.
Any clue what supplements affect the dopamine receptors each one of them the most? Curious. How does one upregulate their dopamine receptor? Amphetamines or the like, like PEA?
I've tried huperzine A, it was my first nootropic ever if I'm not mistaken. Could be my 2nd. Stomach aches.
Been hearing too much about uridine monophosphate and I'm eager to try it.
Overtraining regularly is one form of chronic stress, which seems to impair D1 receptors according to the study I just linked.
"These results indicate that chronic stress induces working memory impairment through a D1 receptor-mediated hypodopaminergic mechanism in the PFC."
However, I suspect that lower D1 receptors might eventually lead to downregulation of all receptors (because you start to get fatigued, sedentary and depressed - and when these symptoms occur more symptoms arise. My bet is that even acetylcholine receptors starts to get downregulated when the brain is out of harmony. D1 is also related to learning. It is quite common for us with ADD/ADHD to not learn from our mistakes. We "trial and error" many times in order to get things right. Very frustrating to have a bad short term memory. We tend to forget about the future, so we obsess about the future, because we are afraid that we will forget to do the planned things if we do not have it in our mind constantly.
I would also start with Jiaogulan extract if I were you:
Jiaogulan (Gynostemma pentaphyllum) Has a restorative effect on dopaminergic systems after chronic stress and 6-OHDA-induced neurotoxicity. Unique in its proven abilities to promote healing of the dopaminergic system, rather than just prevent degradation.
6-Hydroxydopamine administration for 28 days (8 microg/2 microL) reduced the number of tyrosine hydroxylase (TH)-immunopositive neurons to 40.2% in the substantia nigra compared to the intact contralateral side. Dopamine, 3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetic acid, homovanillic acid and norepinephrine levels were reduced to 19.1%, 52.3%, 47.1% and 67.4% in the striatum of 6-hydroxydopamine-lesioned rats compared to the control group, respectively. However, an oral administration of herbal ethanol extracts from Gynostemma pentaphyllum (GP-EX) (10 mg/kg and 30 mg/kg) starting on day 3 post-lesion for 28 days markedly ameliorated the reduction of TH-immunopositive neurons induced by 6-hydroxydopamine-lesioned rat brain from 40.2% to 67.4% and 75.8% in the substantia nigra. GP-EX administration (10 and 30 mg/kg) also recovered the levels of dopamine, 3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetic acid, homovanillic acid and norepinephrine in post-lesion striatum to 64.1% and 65.0%, 77.9% and 89.7%, 82.6% and 90.2%, and 88.1% and 89.2% of the control group. GP-EX at the given doses did not produce any sign of toxicity such as weight loss, diarrhea and vomiting in rats during the 28 day treatment period and four gypenoside derivatives, gynosaponin TN-1, gynosaponin TN-2, gypenoside XLV and gypenoside LXXIV were identified from GP-EX. These results suggest that GP-EX might be helpful in the prevention of Parkinson's disease.
"People and the media always market excercise as "good for you" without the mention of anything else."
You know, steroid use is the big elephant in the room that nobody really talks about. By watching buff dudes and trying to copy their training methods you will destroy yourself. These guys never admit that they are on the juice, because being "natural" will give them more respect, more views, more clients and ultimately more money. Media is all about selling supplements and services.
I can tell you that steroid > all supplements when it comes to recovery and hypertrophy. Watch the documentary "Bigger, Faster, Stronger", you will understand that it is all about politics and economics. Also make sure to listen to this interview with Dorian Yates (6 time Mr. Olympia Winner).
Now I understand when people say you can't get big in the gym unless "you kill yourself in the gym". I did kill myself in the gym which is why I have a develop chest similar to bodybuilders you'd see on magazines, but without the use of steroids then. It's possible but like you said you end up destroying yourself, first mentally then physically. When I was "done" mentally, I stopped weight training, lost muscles, and felt done. I was depressed obviously. It affects you physically after you are screwed mentally.
One thing for sure is I won't get on the harsher steroids that Dorian Yates may have used. Those are for pros. I would think even a simple testosterone steroid would be sufficient, better than nothing I suppose. Not sure if my sole use of Anavar oral steroid was even sufficient, though I was advised to take testosterone with any steroid.
There was a steroid documentary on youtube where the guy used injectable B12 pre workout, not sure if B12 for pre workout would atleast help out both mentally and physically. Then again the guy was also on steroids so it's hard to tell if only using B12 is sufficient.
I could feel some type of "pressure" in my head after an intense workout, especially deadlift, considering I am now 160 pounds and deadlifting over 400 pounds. I'm shorter at 5'7" in height. My set is usually 4x and 8 reps, atleast. The workout is under 30 minutes but intense. I have about 15 years of weight training experience. I think I am killing myself here without the use of steroids, I'd be a lot bigger if I did get back on cycle. I was 190 in high school with a huge pecs (no steroid). My workout was 90% bench press as I was clueless and was obsessed with the "lazy man's workout" (i.e. the bench press). You get to lay down and lift. How easy.
Regarding CNS fatigue/burnout; I would think this is common with teens considering they are all under stress? Add to that the physical insecurities which is technically why people train HARD in the gym, which then adds more insult to injury. I've seen teens lift the heaviest shit then afterwards they all look depressed, etc. I know that feeling after a workout. That feeling you get in your head. Usually in a school setting there is no proper recovery nutrition other than Powerade or Gatorade and vending machine products. Not many teens have access to steroids unless they are guided by someone older who has the knowledge (think Schwarzenegger's mentor). Not many parents or gym teacher would even think of putting anyone under age on an illegal substance for societal fear. Also, steroids are not that easy to find unless you look for it.
Does this mean plenty of teens have undiagnosed ADHD? Considering the symptoms of it all point to the "teen life". I think I came across a wikipedia info that mentioned something like if diagnosis were more common then more teens would be diagnosed with ADHD, which was controversial. It's like saying every stripper has some type of STD, ONLY if they get tested then they would know what they are diagnosed with, etc. If that makes sense.
Very interesting theory. Well, people are basically too hard on themselves. The "No pain, no gain" mentality is a bad one and will end up hurting us. One should train like Victor Costa, check his Youtube channel. He's probably that only natural I've encountered that is training right and is kind to his own body. I like him because he practices mindfulness and meditation too.
Here is a quote from him: "A question I should have answered a while ago about dead lifts. Someone asked how I felt about incorporating dead lifts into a routine. Here is my response. I will tell you - there are so many varieties of them. I have done them and must say that nothing on this earth taxed my body more. I was incorporating deads with knees bent - traditional style. There are Bulgarian, other styles etc...Let's call mine traditional. I know for a fact, that dead lifts do something to the body that no other exercise can do. I can only explain it as,"activates" the body like no other exercise.
I learned I was overtraining from doing them. How did I learn this? I was not recovering, at all... It was taking forever. Not my lower back, that was never sore, not my hamstrings or glutes, not even my arms or neck. My body wasn't recovering. Why? The humors, the blood, my organs, my energy was activated to the point where I know that dead lifts are not an ordinary exercise. I was already taxed form my intense training. I wasn't ready to incorporate that exercise in to my workout. It's not that I haven't done it before, I have. But I have never incorporated it into the way I train now with all of that mental energy, wisdom shit I do. You guys know I am in tune with these esoteric elements of training. I mean this exercise is primal- it was probably, as man, our first lift. It is an exercise that has tremendous power - I don't mean gives you tremendous power, I mean the exercise itself has a power.
I can only describe it that way, metaphysically. What I am telling you is, I didn't have respect for the exercise and treated it like any other. It is not any other exercise. My lower back is exceptionally strong and I can do quite a lot of weight. That isn't the point at all.
But you understand, especially if you know me. The dead lift has a power unto itself. You not only have to do them right mechanically so you don't get injured, you have to be up to the task of healing between workouts with rest and great nutrition. Don't take them lightly. No pun intended."
I have taken adenosylcobalamin (10mg sublingual) pre-workout and it has actually helped. I felt that it protected my CNS. However, it doesn't reverse the damage that has been done. Not sure how protective it ultimately is, but it certainly helped.
I would probably start with 500ml of testosterone enanthate (e5d, every 5th day) with nolvadren for 12 weeks. No need to go hardcore and use trenbolone, clenbuterol and stuff like the pros. The testo should sufficient enough to repair the CNS, generate a feeling of well being and helping with recovery. I'm going to jump on this wagon soon as well. One cycle per year shouldn't create any permanent damage from what I've read. I actually believe that there are more pros than cons for people like us. CNS burnout is no joke. One feels FUBAR.
Now I understand when people say you can't get big in the gym unless "you kill yourself in the gym". I did kill myself in the gym which is why I have a develop chest similar to bodybuilders you'd see on magazines, but without the use of steroids then. It's possible but like you said you end up destroying yourself, first mentally then physically. When I was "done" mentally, I stopped weight training, lost muscles, and felt done. I was depressed obviously. It affects you physically after you are screwed mentally.
One thing for sure is I won't get on the harsher steroids that Dorian Yates may have used. Those are for pros. I would think even a simple testosterone steroid would be sufficient, better than nothing I suppose. Not sure if my sole use of Anavar oral steroid was even sufficient, though I was advised to take testosterone with any steroid.
There was a steroid documentary on youtube where the guy used injectable B12 pre workout, not sure if B12 for pre workout would atleast help out both mentally and physically. Then again the guy was also on steroids so it's hard to tell if only using B12 is sufficient.
I could feel some type of "pressure" in my head after an intense workout, especially deadlift, considering I am now 160 pounds and deadlifting over 400 pounds. I'm shorter at 5'7" in height. My set is usually 4x and 8 reps, atleast. The workout is under 30 minutes but intense. I have about 15 years of weight training experience. I think I am killing myself here without the use of steroids, I'd be a lot bigger if I did get back on cycle. I was 190 in high school with a huge pecs (no steroid). My workout was 90% bench press as I was clueless and was obsessed with the "lazy man's workout" (i.e. the bench press). You get to lay down and lift. How easy.
Regarding CNS fatigue/burnout; I would think this is common with teens considering they are all under stress? Add to that the physical insecurities which is technically why people train HARD in the gym, which then adds more insult to injury. I've seen teens lift the heaviest shit then afterwards they all look depressed, etc. I know that feeling after a workout. That feeling you get in your head. Usually in a school setting there is no proper recovery nutrition other than Powerade or Gatorade and vending machine products. Not many teens have access to steroids unless they are guided by someone older who has the knowledge (think Schwarzenegger's mentor). Not many parents or gym teacher would even think of putting anyone under age on an illegal substance for societal fear. Also, steroids are not that easy to find unless you look for it.
Does this mean plenty of teens have undiagnosed ADHD? Considering the symptoms of it all point to the "teen life". I think I came across a wikipedia info that mentioned something like if diagnosis were more common then more teens would be diagnosed with ADHD, which was controversial. It's like saying every stripper has some type of STD, ONLY if they get tested then they would know what they are diagnosed with, etc. If that makes sense.
I have come to the conclusion that overtraining depletes choline in the body. Nobody has just realized this yet.
The only thing that they have managed to find is: lowered catecholamine levels and serotonin. They suspect that overtraining lowers serotonin levels.
Hower it is more complicated than this. Choline does a number of things in the body. It takes care of the liver and makes sure that there are adequate acetylcholine levels in the brain. With lowered choline levels we also get lowered folate levels. Choline's metabolite trimethylglycine (TMG) is required to create SAM-e together with folic acid and b12.
Without TMG and folic acid we can't create SAM-e. Eventually this makes us numb. We feel disconnected from people and we forget what "feeling" really means. You know - smiling and laughing from the heart, genuinely and uncontrollably - like happy people do. This feels like an ancient art to us chronically stressed and depressed.
Low choline results in: - Low acetylcholine levels (makes on tired and groggy, almost impossible to wake up refreshened)
- Low SAM-e levels. Joint pain and depression is common. SAM-e takes care of the joints and reduces pain, but most importantly it creates and affects neurotransmitters.SAM-e is known to increase the levels of dopamine, serotonin and epinephrine in the brain. This is why supplementing with SAM-e works as good or even better than antidepressants. This has been showed in over 100 studies.
Conclusion: Lower levels of acetylcholine, dopamine, serotonin and epinephrine.
Last night I took 2.4 grams of choline bitartrate before bed. I wasn't really sure what would happen, I only expected more vivid dreams because of the choline.
Well, guess what...
This morning I woke up after 6.5 hours of sleep and felt great. I didn't want to sleep more even if I could sleep fore 2 more hours. This is kind of amazing because the last 10 years I have always slept for at least 8 hours and never been able to enjoy my morning without grogginess. My friends and family know how cranky I am in the mornings and they know that they should avoid talking to me. Oversleeping has always been a problem for me. It is known that low acetylcholine levels in the brain affects sleep and waking up. Now I understand why I feel like sh#% on anticholinergics like benadryl. If I take one before sleep, I wake up after 12 hours and just want to sleep more. Acetylcholine allows brain states to change more easily and without it - life is a struggle.
I would recommend everyone that is feeling fatigued and depressed or just feels groggy in the mornings to start supplementing with P5P, Metafolin, Methylcobalamin and massive doses of choline bitartrate. You probably have both choline and SAM-e deficiency.
The BDNF expression of fasting is minimal. Don't bother. I have fasted 16-18 hours a day (Lean Gains diet) for about 18 months. Recently quit it, because I'm ripped and satisfied with my body now.
I paired this with powerlifting. Fasting won't change your body magically.
The point is that my BDNF is still low and my imagination is poor. I cannot "paint pictures" in my mind.
If you want to improve your mood get some Alpha GPC, Uridine (Sublingual without fillers) and DHA(500mg capsules). Yes, it's Mr. Happy's Stack.
I would also Noopept for a couple of weeks. I think that it increased my BDNF and NGF, but I don't think that one should supplement with it for a long period of time.
You cannot paint pictures in your mind? How is this possible? I thought everyone can.
I don't think you really have ADHD, if you did the stims would have alleviated your problems immedietely. The symptoms you are describing is not uncommon for studying students. It's not exactly easy to get excited about studying or revising for exams unless you were indoctrinated to enjoy it from a very young age.
"Motivation" is highly subjective, would you study if you would go hungry without studying? It's all context in your mind, until you change the parameters of how your mind is framing things then no amount of nootropics or drugs will fix that.
In regards to executive function - the half life of stimulants are mostly short, making them ideal candidates for chemical neuromodulation, this is because you will snap back to the normal state quick. This is really a lot more ideal than things that take a long time to work like current ssris for depression (in fact a lot of money is going into developing short acting SSRIs). So I don't understand the reluctance, it sounds more like paranoia and fear rather than a logical choice. Yes you will come down but -
Realistically if you use stimulants to study, how much time is it going to take up in your life? 3-5 years at most? What about the rewards? You might ace your class, you might end up with a degree that alot of people would take a time machine back to work harder to obtain.
- and only when you need to study or do hard work. In my experience short term "feelings" are no way to judge a medication. Down moods are often very productive and positive moods often leads to non-productivity, a very ironic thing I discovered on my own journey. When you feel good you don't wanna work, only somebody who is screwed up enjoys painful work, even people who are passionate do not enjoy painful work. Why does it matter when you realise its just a temporary thing that will go away. The increase on executive function stimulants give temporarily allows you to do things normally you can't.
Also dexamphetamine is the strongest stimulant I can think of next to mephamphetamine, there are dozens of other less debillitating solutions to your focus problems. I don't think its logical to take dex and then conclude stimulants are useless immedietely, but maybe its just procving that you might actually not have ADHD, and have some other problem -
Whe you say dex makes you serious and depressed, if thats dring the peak plasma levels of the drug that indicates some weird brain chemistry going on. It should make you very focused, or make you high. Also you would be surprised how even different formulations of the same drug can have really different effects despite acting on the same mechanism due to the complex nature of metabolic pathways. All the different amphetamine drugs are different subjectively.
Edited by Major Legend, 18 October 2014 - 12:31 AM.
I have lost the ability somehow. If I do see something in my mind, I can only see the texture/shape. Very vaguely. Reading fiction books is very boring for me.
The BDNF expression of fasting is minimal. Don't bother. I have fasted 16-18 hours a day (Lean Gains diet) for about 18 months. Recently quit it, because I'm ripped and satisfied with my body now.
I paired this with powerlifting. Fasting won't change your body magically.
The point is that my BDNF is still low and my imagination is poor. I cannot "paint pictures" in my mind.
If you want to improve your mood get some Alpha GPC, Uridine (Sublingual without fillers) and DHA(500mg capsules). Yes, it's Mr. Happy's Stack.
I would also Noopept for a couple of weeks. I think that it increased my BDNF and NGF, but I don't think that one should supplement with it for a long period of time.
You cannot paint pictures in your mind? How is this possible? I thought everyone can.
Fascinating. How about vividness? Do colours spring out to you? Do the abstract beauty of the world and its complexity overwhelm you sometimes? I am interested in whether visualisation is corelated with cognitive fluency (piracetam like elation).
When did you lose the ability? are you telling me you use to have it? Do you dream?
I have lost the ability somehow. If I do see something in my mind, I can only see the texture/shape. Very vaguely. Reading fiction books is very boring for me.
The BDNF expression of fasting is minimal. Don't bother. I have fasted 16-18 hours a day (Lean Gains diet) for about 18 months. Recently quit it, because I'm ripped and satisfied with my body now.
I paired this with powerlifting. Fasting won't change your body magically.
The point is that my BDNF is still low and my imagination is poor. I cannot "paint pictures" in my mind.
If you want to improve your mood get some Alpha GPC, Uridine (Sublingual without fillers) and DHA(500mg capsules). Yes, it's Mr. Happy's Stack.
I would also Noopept for a couple of weeks. I think that it increased my BDNF and NGF, but I don't think that one should supplement with it for a long period of time.
You cannot paint pictures in your mind? How is this possible? I thought everyone can.
I don't think you really have ADHD, if you did the stims would have alleviated your problems immedietely. The symptoms you are describing is not uncommon for studying students. It's not exactly easy to get excited about studying or revising for exams unless you were indoctrinated to enjoy it from a very young age.
"Motivation" is highly subjective, would you study if you would go hungry without studying? It's all context in your mind, until you change the parameters of how your mind is framing things then no amount of nootropics or drugs will fix that.
In regards to executive function - the half life of stimulants are mostly short, making them ideal candidates for chemical neuromodulation, this is because you will snap back to the normal state quick. This is really a lot more ideal than things that take a long time to work like current ssris for depression (in fact a lot of money is going into developing short acting SSRIs). So I don't understand the reluctance, it sounds more like paranoia and fear rather than a logical choice. Yes you will come down but -
Realistically if you use stimulants to study, how much time is it going to take up in your life? 3-5 years at most? What about the rewards? You might ace your class, you might end up with a degree that alot of people would take a time machine back to work harder to obtain.
- and only when you need to study or do hard work. In my experience short term "feelings" are no way to judge a medication. Down moods are often very productive and positive moods often leads to non-productivity, a very ironic thing I discovered on my own journey. When you feel good you don't wanna work, only somebody who is screwed up enjoys painful work, even people who are passionate do not enjoy painful work. Why does it matter when you realise its just a temporary thing that will go away. The increase on executive function stimulants give temporarily allows you to do things normally you can't.
Also dexamphetamine is the strongest stimulant I can think of next to mephamphetamine, there are dozens of other less debillitating solutions to your focus problems. I don't think its logical to take dex and then conclude stimulants are useless immedietely, but maybe its just procving that you might actually not have ADHD, and have some other problem -
Whe you say dex makes you serious and depressed, if thats dring the peak plasma levels of the drug that indicates some weird brain chemistry going on. It should make you very focused, or make you high. Also you would be surprised how even different formulations of the same drug can have really different effects despite acting on the same mechanism due to the complex nature of metabolic pathways. All the different amphetamine drugs are different subjectively.
Sorry let me clarify my response to my standard dose of 5-10mg dextroamphetamine.
- the comeup is usually the only euphoric part for me. Not intense just a slight mood lift.
- in the peak I'm calm focused and don't like to be distracted. I become quite stubborn and only want to do things I should be doing.
- the comedown is not usually too bad but sometimes does make me feel depressed and drained
When I'm using dex regularly, say 4-5 days per week at 15-20mg per day, my overall productivity is good for any given week but I'm useless without it.
Dextroamphetamine at the low doses I take works as sort of an anti-anxiety med for me. Just gives me the confidence in my ability, and clears the clutter from my mind. Is this a typical adhd response?
I feel like I do need something dopaminergic, since the big things I struggle with are attention problems, low libido, low motivation, and anhedonia. I just don't think that dex long term or even methylphenidate could be safe. I mean dopamine receptors will down regulate, and days off the drug will be met with a worse state than baseline.
I will still use dex over the next fortnight until my studies have finished for the year, but only at moderate doses, 2-3 days per week
Dextroamphetamine at the low doses I take works as sort of an anti-anxiety med for me. Just gives me the confidence in my ability, and clears the clutter from my mind. Is this a typical adhd response?
Yes, this is a classic ADHD response, everything you describe in that post are classic ADHD problems. I just thought dex wasn't working for you.
Tolerance is a major problem for people using stims for ADHD, it really varies from person to person though some people can be ok on low doses for their entire lives. Unfortunately if you have ADHD, with my understanding of current technology = you will never be "on" 24/7 like most people, the moment they wake up all the way to sleep they have this kind of willpower we can only dream of. It's unfortunate I know, but thats why these forums are important.
My personal opinion is that if you do not escalate your dose beyond your current low parameter, you should be okay. Since there are many people taking much more stronger doses in the order of say 40mg per day, not experience neurotoxicity or severe withdrawal. If your comedown is not bad, to me this suggests an abundance of neurotransmitters in your brain, some people feel really shitty on comedowns, not having bad ones is a good sign. Though you should be alert if you start experiencing withdrawal, that may be a sign of developing addiction or tolerance.
For tolerance you can restrict your usage of it like you already are, or you can consider an antitolerance regimen to attentuate your tolerance. For the off days where you are unable to reach baselines you can find other strategies to remain 50% productive.
Its really a personal decision - how much is not having the medication going to impact your quality of life for example? and like I said earlier if you only take it for studying and exams (is that a really bad thing considering you may reap monetary/social value benefits for the rest of your life). Can you find a better way of doing things without relying on medication, or can you be happy with the idea that you will an "underachiever" these are factors to consider.
You should bear in mind that you are in an important phase in your life, that whatever you do now will have immense implications (beyond your imagination) for what you will be doing for the rest of your life, what you achieve now will be used by society to judge you for your worth (it's stupid I know, but just think of the amount of stupid people in positions of high power).
Your credentials will serve as your calling card for the rest of your life.
Trust me, if I could go back now I would take ritalin/meth whatever just to get into a better education. These things compound! Having better credentials gives you access to better jobs and better informed network of individuals, this will give you a "intellectual support network", you may not need to rely on these drugs once you have achieved certain points of leverage. The earlier you can do in your life, the happier you will be.
Edited by Major Legend, 18 October 2014 - 03:39 AM.
This has happened to me when I was "done". It's possible. Considering my latest intake of B vitamins (p5p, b12, etc.) my dreams and imagination (daydream and asleep) are just more vivid and I can actually remember them upon waking up. I never had proper guidance during my teens which is why I burnt myself out with over training and over thinking without proper rest and nutrition and supplementing. My sleep on weekdays was pretty much anywhere from under 5 hours, some even just 2 hours. I oversleep during the weekends like most teens.
The BDNF expression of fasting is minimal. Don't bother. I have fasted 16-18 hours a day (Lean Gains diet) for about 18 months. Recently quit it, because I'm ripped and satisfied with my body now.
I paired this with powerlifting. Fasting won't change your body magically.
The point is that my BDNF is still low and my imagination is poor. I cannot "paint pictures" in my mind.
If you want to improve your mood get some Alpha GPC, Uridine (Sublingual without fillers) and DHA(500mg capsules). Yes, it's Mr. Happy's Stack.
I would also Noopept for a couple of weeks. I think that it increased my BDNF and NGF, but I don't think that one should supplement with it for a long period of time.
You cannot paint pictures in your mind? How is this possible? I thought everyone can.
Major Legend, maybe stupid people in higher power are on something we don't know about?
I like what you said about get on "it" achieve whatever needs to be done and once you've reached your heights simply quit. Curious if obtaining meth and or amphetamines legally with prescription is costly? Usually work places with drug tests will test for these so better have a prescription for it rather than be on the down low buying it illegally without prescription.
VICREP, what you described about dex is somewhat similar to what people i know who uses percocet; it makes you want to get things done, but these 2 drugs are completely different.
Zenfood, interesting theory on overtraining, there's really no way to measure what overtraining is whether it's an hour of workout or 10 minutes of the heaviest shit. Best way is to supplement regardless?
Still don't know why excercise is marketed as "good for you". Maybe there is a propaganda here somewhere for companies to sell more products "you need". Or what "Hollywood" wants you think what good physique looks like. Complete conspiracy theory however.
Regarding methylfolate, how much is the dose we should be taking? The 400mcg "standard" pill practice seem to be low. I've heard of people they take 4x this amount. I've heard people say they take it in grams not micrograms.
Interestingly, I have pondered for a while if maybe I could be displaying signs of hypothyroidism. A lot of the symptoms seem to be what I'm experiencing.
Yesterday I took one dose of 75mg thyroxine sodium and I felt a great deal of relief. My libido was close to 'normal' for the first time in 2.5 years.
Maybe a lot of my problems come from being hypothyroid?
As for treating ADHD tho' - my foremost recommendation is to do a GENE-TEST over on 23andme.com, and then report back with the results. Certain genetic errors give different variations of ADHD, and once you know which variation you truly have, then you can medicate accordingly, since different medication are better tolerated by different variations of ADHD.
And if you happen to have one of the more common gene-errors... "DRD4 7R allele" - then you probably have an error with your D4 dopamine-receptors. If that's the case, then the research-chemical A-412,997 WILL correct the problem!
With far less side-effects than Methylphenidate and Amphetamine -RUBBISH.
Faso appears to increase focus, decrease depression, and improve motivation. The results varies quite a bit tho', but in general, the side-effects are much, much milder than stimulants - it won't f*ck you up in the same way they do.
I've been diagnosed with inattentive ADD (though I'm skeptical about the diagnosis) and I've done 23andMe, so I looked up my result for the DRD4 gene. It's CT. Is that an error?
EDIT: Assuming that DRD4 is the same as "SNP rs1800955." I did some googling to find the SNP; not sure if I got it right.
Edited by Sunifiramses II, 19 October 2014 - 07:36 AM.
Wouldn't Iodine help with hypothyroidism? A lot of the salts we eat do not have the essential nutrient "iodide" which is why when you buy salts make sure it has this. I would think most of the salted products we eat daily lack iodide since most salts sold do not have them. Just a theory. I did take some kelp iodine supplement and felt a bit better but subtle. I think some signs of hypothyroidism are cold feet.
Interestingly, I have pondered for a while if maybe I could be displaying signs of hypothyroidism. A lot of the symptoms seem to be what I'm experiencing.
Yesterday I took one dose of 75mg thyroxine sodium and I felt a great deal of relief. My libido was close to 'normal' for the first time in 2.5 years.
Maybe a lot of my problems come from being hypothyroid?
As for treating ADHD tho' - my foremost recommendation is to do a GENE-TEST over on 23andme.com, and then report back with the results. Certain genetic errors give different variations of ADHD, and once you know which variation you truly have, then you can medicate accordingly, since different medication are better tolerated by different variations of ADHD.
And if you happen to have one of the more common gene-errors... "DRD4 7R allele" - then you probably have an error with your D4 dopamine-receptors. If that's the case, then the research-chemical A-412,997 WILL correct the problem!
With far less side-effects than Methylphenidate and Amphetamine -RUBBISH.
Faso appears to increase focus, decrease depression, and improve motivation. The results varies quite a bit tho', but in general, the side-effects are much, much milder than stimulants - it won't f*ck you up in the same way they do.
I've been diagnosed with inattentive ADD (though I'm skeptical about the diagnosis) and I've done 23andMe, so I looked up my result for the DRD4 gene. It's CT. Is that an error?
EDIT: Assuming that DRD4 is the same as "SNP rs1800955." I did some googling to find the SNP; not sure if I got it right.
Ketamine for Anhedonia? Who even sells these as they are scheduled? I'm sure the veterinary may have them but not sure if those are human grade. It's a vet drug after all.
It has great potential for humans as well.
Regarding Zenfood's suggestion of jiaogulan for dopamine restoration; what about the other neurotransmitter: serotonin, oxytocin, and endorphin?
This is a great article on the 4 "happy" neurotransmitters:
Not sure if too much can be problematic? Isn't too much dopamine linked with schizophrenia? How about serotonin? Too much of it leads to serotonin syndrome?
Zenfood, if you have problems with ANKK1 ( remember? It's not a D2 -problem, that's old science - this allelle of yours is assigned to another gene these days), then you really should be checking into what's going on with your dopamine-synthesis - could be that your brain isn't synthesizing enough Dopamine. Not sure how to test for that, but it should be possible.
And if you have the DRD4 -mutation, then A-412,997 is DEFINITELY going to help.
It's a research-drug with stimulant-effects, but it ONLY agonises the D4-receptor...! 0.o Fantastic stuff - in theory. Hardly any side-effects, since it's so darn specific.
The most common causes of acute inattentiveness as well as chronic are sleep deprivation, dehydration, stress, and exhaustion (from work or whatever). If you are positive none of these are directly causing the problem, then the problem may lie deeper. There are a number of things known to cause fatigue and lack of motivation other than ADD. It could be as simple as a food allergy, low T, or hypothyroidism ect. There are a few threads around longecity that show how treating problems such as these can eliminate fatigue, low motivation ect, but they are usually rare cases. One could argue that depression alone can also cause these symptoms, but then it turns into "Am I depressed bc of these symptoms or am I having these symptoms bc Im depressed?". And its not like setting out to treat depression is a clear course in fact, I think it just causes more confusion.
One factor toward these types of problems that's often underrated is having enough money. You simply need enough income and a suitable job. It has to be a job where you dont feel like you're wasting your time away on the clock though. It either needs to be enjoyable, or it needs to provide you with a satisfying paycheck. If you feel like you are working your life away you will lose motivation. I mean especially if its a job that you have to force yourself to everyday. If it's where you spend 50% or more of your time per week, it better be worth your time.
ADD isn't really something that just appears out of nowhere, its something people have been stuck with their whole lives. Now thats not to say you dont have it, of course it could be ADD and it wouldn't hurt to give stimulants or supplements a try. I never noticed a worth while improvement any supplement I tried however(aside from energy drinks). Stimulants on the other hand changed my life for the better. Adderall in particular.
Interesting opinions. Also, why no mention of hyperthyroidism just hypothyroidism? Is it less common? Regarding the whole "money" thing, don't forget to look at those celebrities with money but still have issues. Although lots of money sure would make me happy, problems can creep out of nowhere.
VICREP -
The most common causes of acute inattentiveness as well as chronic are sleep deprivation, dehydration, stress, and exhaustion (from work or whatever). If you are positive none of these are directly causing the problem, then the problem may lie deeper. There are a number of things known to cause fatigue and lack of motivation other than ADD. It could be as simple as a food allergy, low T, or hypothyroidism ect. There are a few threads around longecity that show how treating problems such as these can eliminate fatigue, low motivation ect, but they are usually rare cases. One could argue that depression alone can also cause these symptoms, but then it turns into "Am I depressed bc of these symptoms or am I having these symptoms bc Im depressed?". And its not like setting out to treat depression is a clear course in fact, I think it just causes more confusion.
One factor toward these types of problems that's often underrated is having enough money. You simply need enough income and a suitable job. It has to be a job where you dont feel like you're wasting your time away on the clock though. It either needs to be enjoyable, or it needs to provide you with a satisfying paycheck. If you feel like you are working your life away you will lose motivation. I mean especially if its a job that you have to force yourself to everyday. If it's where you spend 50% or more of your time per week, it better be worth your time.
ADD isn't really something that just appears out of nowhere, its something people have been stuck with their whole lives. Now thats not to say you dont have it, of course it could be ADD and it wouldn't hurt to give stimulants or supplements a try. I never noticed a worth while improvement any supplement I tried however(aside from energy drinks). Stimulants on the other hand changed my life for the better. Adderall in particular.
I just didn't mention it for the sake of time. There are many causes for fatigue I i'd have trouble listing all of them off the top of my head. :/
The main reason I believe money is such a big factor is because it will allow you to more easily chase after whatever passions you have. Its sort of about having control over your life - more freedom.
I don't think money can buy happiness, but it can sure as hell help you avoid a lot of unhappiness.
You're right, there are a lot of depressed celebrities. I'd have to argue that its because their lives are generally under the control of someone else though. What good would money do if you were constantly trying to create and uphold this certain image of yourself at all times? For the general population a lot of money means a lot of options, and a lot of options means more freedom to do whatever you want - whether that be flying an airplane or sitting on your ass all day.
Interesting opinions. Also, why no mention of hyperthyroidism just hypothyroidism? Is it less common? Regarding the whole "money" thing, don't forget to look at those celebrities with money but still have issues. Although lots of money sure would make me happy, problems can creep out of nowhere.
VICREP -
The most common causes of acute inattentiveness as well as chronic are sleep deprivation, dehydration, stress, and exhaustion (from work or whatever). If you are positive none of these are directly causing the problem, then the problem may lie deeper. There are a number of things known to cause fatigue and lack of motivation other than ADD. It could be as simple as a food allergy, low T, or hypothyroidism ect. There are a few threads around longecity that show how treating problems such as these can eliminate fatigue, low motivation ect, but they are usually rare cases. One could argue that depression alone can also cause these symptoms, but then it turns into "Am I depressed bc of these symptoms or am I having these symptoms bc Im depressed?". And its not like setting out to treat depression is a clear course in fact, I think it just causes more confusion.
One factor toward these types of problems that's often underrated is having enough money. You simply need enough income and a suitable job. It has to be a job where you dont feel like you're wasting your time away on the clock though. It either needs to be enjoyable, or it needs to provide you with a satisfying paycheck. If you feel like you are working your life away you will lose motivation. I mean especially if its a job that you have to force yourself to everyday. If it's where you spend 50% or more of your time per week, it better be worth your time.
ADD isn't really something that just appears out of nowhere, its something people have been stuck with their whole lives. Now thats not to say you dont have it, of course it could be ADD and it wouldn't hurt to give stimulants or supplements a try. I never noticed a worth while improvement any supplement I tried however(aside from energy drinks). Stimulants on the other hand changed my life for the better. Adderall in particular.
regarding hypothyroidism; I started taking some iodine (from kelp) again and notice I felt better. I don't know why I stopped taking them I think it was due to me feeling too well that I should stop supplementing, plus it was summer. Now that it is winter and moods change, seems like iodine is back at work again. Regarding dosage; I'm only taking the suggested use of my supplement which is 4 drops (equals to 100% daily value which is 150mcg). Now, RDA (recommended daily allowance) is not exactly always righteous as I have seen other brands sell their iodine at over 200% daily value, which according to the product reviews proved more effective. RDA is junk anyway.
How much iodine does one really need? Would taking too much cause hyperthyroidism? How much is too much and how much is too little? Too little would be anything under 100% of a daily value.
finally tried the combo of choline (alpha gpc), b12, methylfolate, and tmg. I actually took choline an hour after I had taken the other 3. I'm sure that doesn't count. I'll try again tomorrow to see if taking all 4 at the same time will make a difference. I did what I did just to feel out the effects if any or if it makes me "speedy" with the addition of choline. My dose was: b12 5000 mcg, methylfolate 400 mcg, TMG 1.5 grams, and alpha gpc choline 150mg. Was the choline dose a bit low? I was just testing it first. Suggested use was 300mg to 600mg, but up to 1 g a day as well.
Zenfood, I've tried SAMe before, not into it. One of your replies #39 mentioned that folate and TMG makes SAMe, so that means I do not need to supplement with SAMe since I am on folate and TMG, right? It makes SAMe right?
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