10 replies to this topic

[neroTulip]

Hi guys,

I’ve been a passive reader on this board for quite some time and already have learned a lot from the various knowledgeable people around here.

 

I decided to register and share “my case” in the hope of some help since I’m desperate.

 

I don’t want to enhance myself with drugs or be superhuman. I just want to live a normal life. You can’t imagine how grateful I’m for any clues from you guys.

 

Here’s my story …

 

At the age of 19 (I’m 32 years old now) I slowly started descending into a downward spiral of something I know (at least I think I know) today as (severe) atypical depression. Up until August 2013 I did not even know that I’m depressed and anxious, because I felt that way for so long that it became normal.

 

By the end of 2012 I moved to a new city and started a job there. Maybe this (for me) big change contributed to what happened in August 2013. My mental well-being had further declined since I started the new job and my old strategies to cope with the depression didn’t work anymore. Before the move I was a student at the university in my home city where I could basically do the things that needed to be done whenever I found the energy to do so. Of course this was now over since I had to function at the new job.

 

Well one late morning in August 2013 I just couldn’t take it anymore, I mentally broke down. I stared at my computer screen (I’m an IT guy with a not very stressful job) and just couldn’t move anymore. I couldn’t DO anything. I had some weird anxious feelings without any visible signs from the outside (so I assume). I just sat there and starred at my screen for quite some time.

 

After I could move again I left the office and went to a mental hospital where the diagnosed me with major depression. They offered to take me in for 10 days and started me on Citalopram. I agreed and since the Citalopram I know that I was anxious my entire adult life. I also knew now that I have always been hypersexual. Because now I had a normal libido and what others found an annoying side-effect of SSRIs is a blessing for me. They also gave me a Benzo which in hindsight they shouldn’t have done because I never felt such peace my entire life and I would take it every evening if it weren’t for the dangers of those meds.

 

After the ten days they offered to take me in some more but I refused and got back to work. Life on the SSRI is a little better because it helps a little with the anxiety and is very effective treating the hypersexuality.

But the SSRI didn’t help with my lack of motivation. It might have worsened that. I can’t get myself to do ANYTHING. Everyday things like brushing my teeth, cleaning my room or call a friend or my mother for me is a brutal exertion of force. It always has been my entire adult life.

 

I was fat and poorly groomed until the age of 25, after 4 years of university where I didn’t get anything done academically. At that point in my life I discovered ephedrine. I started to exercise and lost about 20kgs in roughly two years. I started to groom got my room at a level of cleanliness that one could at least not say that the guy living here has some serious mental issues.

 

I was still depressed as fuck and didn’t get anything done academically. At the age of 29, I discovered Ritalin. Ritalin made it possible for me to finish University in the following 2-3 years. It was a godsent. I was still depressed and anxious. Like my entire life before that episode I couldn’t sleep and was still miserable. But when I absolutely got to do something I threw in some Ritalin, got it done and went back into my hole.

 

Back to today. The SSRI did not change my mental health and the Ritalin helps me to not slip into social welfare.

 

Recently I discovered Phenibut. I first tried it as a sleep aid and it didn’t work for that. But the next morning I felt like a new person. I was neither manic nor overly excited. I just felt GOOD! It was just that the feeling of “I wouldn’t mind not waking up in the morning” was gone. Benzos take away the anxiety, but I’m still miserable as hell. A few months I thought I was cured. But as expected, tolerance is becoming an issue. And the days of Phenibut are pure hell, since on top of my natural miserable state I have (of course) the Phenibut withdrawel on top of that.

 

So long story short. Here are some questions to the people who read that boring story, can relate or feel for whatever reason inclined to help.

 

1)

Has anybody by having a look at my symptoms a clue as to what is wrong with me?

 

2)

I can’t rely on Phenibut and Ritalin (which costs me a fortune since I don’t get it prescribed officially) for the rest of my life. Are there alternatives?

 

Thank you very much & Kind Regards

Nero          

 

[pheanix997]

Have you ever been in therapy with a good therapist? Not a cookie-cutter one... but more like an analyst?

Also, have you absolutely ruled out any physical/ biological problems? For instance, when you said you stared at your computer and didn't move, it kind of sounds like a small seizure. Any history of epilepsy in your family? 

 

My first impression is that this is a big picture thing - drugs or supplements won't transform you. The first piece of advice I would give is to find am overarching purpose for your life. Even if you have problems, even if you can't maintain good friendships, even if you have intimacy issues, people with a purpose in life are able to plough through. So when you say you don't have the motive to do anything, it makes me think that you're adrift in a sea with no direction. 

 

Everyone, whether neurotic or not, is fundamentally akin to get lost in life and wander aimlessly without direction IF there is no life purpose established. We're animals and by default we will find comfort and retreating back into our holes away from life. It's regression, and none of us our immune to it. What gets  some people out of the hole and into life is a willingness to establish values, a life purpose, and then let that pull them forward. Some people have a great upbringing where there is no issue in developing a strong sense of self and gravitating toward certain interests - thus, their interests and values, which developed naturally, pull them forward in life. If you are disconnected from what you're good at, what you enjoy, what you find meaningful, then it means you're estranged from yourself, and it's no wonder you have no motive to do anything. 

 

I would say there are two basic things you need to do. 1) Reconnect with your passions, your hobbies, what you get joy out of, the kinds of people you want in your life, and start moving toward that. Build your life around that. Was IT a career you enjoyed for its own sake? Getting this under control will help move you forward and give you a reason to find joy in life, EVEN IF you don't analyze your past with a therapist to figure out how you came to be where you are today. Think about artists who have tremendous personal angst but whose passion for their art give them meaning, i.e. gets them out of bed in the morning. 

2) Engage in good psychotherapy to analyze how you got to be where you are. Do this simultaneously with 1), so that you're moving forward while also understanding how you got stuck in the first place - this way, you're not moving forward at a frantic pace trying to find redemption, e.g. like a desperate artist, but that you're moving forward whilst also developing peace in your life. 

Edited by pheanix997, 27 October 2014 - 12:31 AM.

[neroTulip]

@pheanix997

 

Thank you very much for your reply.

 

Physical causes can be ruled out. I had two blood tests (one very thoroughly with vitamins, minerals and hormones) and a cardiogram. All looked really good. Perfect health.

 

IT has always been my passion, but ended up studying Economics because I thought I would end up continuing my father’s firm as a tax-accountant because of the good and secure income. But I hate that tax-accountant stuff and decided to get a job in IT which worked out even though I have no formal training in that field and I really like my job.

 

As for the purpose in life I totally agree with you. But I can’t find any. It all seems futile to me. I “tried” to become a Buddhist, practiced Zen Meditation even in a monastery on some weekends which at first helped but in the long run I couldn’t believe in it anymore.

 

The only purpose I could immerse myself in would be my own well-being. This sounds horrible but I’m really not a bad person. It is just that I feel like the human endeavor itself is pointless. And I’m fully aware that thoughts like these make me miserable. I would gladly take some drug to get rid of them and be a fundamental Christian just to have a purpose in life. Anything really. I would even fight for Allah with a machine gun if I would discover this as not being futile. I know this sounds horrible… I also “tried” to become a stoic, but it just didn’t register with me …  

 

I’ve been seeing a therapist (psychoanalyst) in 2008 for roughly a year. The official reason was that I had difficulties to cope with the fact that my brother was diagnosed with schizophrenia. But I truly wanted him to help me with my issues.

It didn’t help at all. Only thing that made me feel better with therapy was that some person listened to my problems (even though he did get pay for it).

 

When I was in that mental hospital I met a very intelligent French (an Engineer) guy. He has been suffering from depression for years and looked completely run down. He talked about having done psychoanalysis for the last 8(!) years. He had a pile of heavy books on his bedside. Heavy reading about all kinds of psychoanalytical stuff for which I would need a good supply of Ritalin to plough through. Bottom line: His depression had become his life-work. He “wasted” his great mind with the immersion into his depression. I don’t want to end like that even though I see some parallels with me searching for medication and supplements that might help me.  

 

I’m about to start some behavioral therapy but don’t have that much hope. I read the book “Feeling Good” by David Burns half way through and was not impressed. Even though I’ve not much faith in CBT I will of course try it.

As to why I got stuck in the first place I have two theories.

 

1)

I think I started drifting after I started smoking cannabis at the age of 16. But I’m not sure if I can blame it on that. But it sure changed me.

 

2)

My parents got divorced at age 18. A therapist might say that could be a reason. But I feel that it didn’t affect me that much.

 

Kind Regards

Nero

 

[focus83]

Hallo Landsmann,

I can very much relate to what you wrote. I'm also often at the verge of breaking down mentally and everyday things are so hard to do. I also suffer from light to moderate depression, coupled with complex anxiety disorders, and feel like my condition slowly but continuously deteriorates.

Back to you: Principally there is nothing wrong with taking Phenibut every day over the course of years unless you don't take excessive dosages and keep raising them on and on. You simply have to prepare yourself for a slow taper once you decide to get off the Phenibut some day. The long Phenibut thread on Mind and Muscle has shown that a slow taper with some Pregabalin, Baclofen or a Benzo at hand is a relatively painless process.

However, since you said tolerance and money are an issue, I advise you to switch to Baclofen instead as you seem to respond well to GABA-B agonism. It's also a GABA-B agonist and has only minor differences to Phenibut in the way it works. Maybe your psychiatrist is willing to prescribe you Baclofen off label since new research is emerging which demonstrates Baclofen's antidepressant and anxiolytic properties.

If that fails, I can give you a very cheap and reliable source via PM that requires no prescription.

[neroTulip]

Hi focus83,

 

Thank you very much for your reply. I really appreciate it.

 

I can very much relate to what you wrote. I'm also often at the verge of breaking down mentally and everyday things are so hard to do. I also suffer from light to moderate depression, coupled with complex anxiety disorders, and feel like my condition slowly but continuously deteriorates.

 

Did you come up with any strategies to combat your mental difficulties like exercise, therapy or meds? Could you talk a little bit about what you tried? Maybe you figured out something I didn’t. Even reports on stuff that didn’t work for you could help since it might be of some use for me.

 

The Phenibut is dirt cheap and incredibly effective. I don’t mind paying for that.

 

What really hurts money-wise is the Ritalin, since that stuff is incredibly expensive. Because of its ridiculously short halflife I need a ton of it and as you might know, nobody in our great country would describe it to me since it is actually something that works…

 

Kind regards

Nero

   

 

 

Edited by neroTulip, 28 October 2014 - 07:51 PM.

[focus83]

Did you come up with any strategies to combat your mental difficulties like exercise, therapy or meds? Could you talk a little bit about what you tried? Maybe you figured out something I didn’t. Even reports on stuff that didn’t work for you could help since it might be of some use for me.

 

The Phenibut is dirt cheap and incredibly effective. I don’t mind paying for that.

 

What really hurts money-wise is the Ritalin, since that stuff is incredibly expensive. Because of its ridiculously short halflife I need a ton of it and as you might know, nobody in our great country would describe it to me since it is actually something that works…

 

Kind regards

Nero

 

I've been through about 50+ meds, some of them prescribed, most of them self medicated (I've used quite a few of them for nootropic purposes and not to treat and disorder). It's been a long and arduous journey. For the most part I stopped self medicating as I found a good psychiatrist who is willing to think outside the box and try meds other than SSRIs and SNRIs.

To make a long medical history short, this is what has been helpful for me:

 

- low doses amisulpride for depression, although tolerance sets in insanely fast

- Baclofen and Phenibut for depression, GAD and better sleep

- Pregabalin for GAD and better sleep

- SSRIs do have some benefits in terms of depression and GAD, but they make me mentally and physically sluggigh, emotionally flat, destroy sex drive etc.

- Tramadol for depression and GAD (only used short term)

- Venlafaxine used to work very well for GAD, SAD and depression, but doesn't work nowadays anymore

- Exercise and strength training, if I can get myself to do it

- GHB, but that of course is not sustainable

 

Although some of these are very helpful, none makes enough of a difference for me to say I feel "normal", not even close. Even promising agents like NSI-189 have failed and I'm at a point where my psychiatrist will most likely put me on a whole cocktail of meds or, if all else fails, prescribe a MAOI.

 

What makes my condition so hard to treat is the combination of depression and several anxiety disorders, plus the fact that I react very sensitively to meds.

 

You might also want to consider low doses of Ketamine for your depression in case you don't find enough relief from the Phenibut.

 

All the best!

Edited by focus83, 29 October 2014 - 08:07 AM.

[neroTulip]

Hi focus83,

 

Thank you very much for your reply.

 

Seems like you’ve come a long way. I sincerely wish you the very best and that you succeed in beating this.

 

You probably know this Standford lecture on depression. Probably therapy could help to learn a better response to stress.

 

 

Kind regards

Nero

[Flex]

Hallo Landsman ^^

 

I´ve for some reason decided against psychology and started to look into Psychiatry/Bio-chemistry, when my problems have started.

Some problems are 100% solved by Psychology but some for 90% - 0%.

So You need to figure out whether Your depression responses to an altered behavior or enviroment and to what degree, but even this could lead to mistakes.

 

I cant count the hours who I´ve spend to psychiatry stuff but it must be over 10,000 hours..

(and, no I´m still not an expert -.-)

Because I had the luck to meet allways, either mute Doctors who dont want to say whats the cause

or Doctors who know.. not so much, like in the case of my current depression.

 

In regards of wasting my time and money, yes a lot of time + money was wasted, but I didnt and dont have an option.

(I´ve needed roughly 1 1/2 Years to find the cause of my current depression

Its highly likely Corticosterone.)

 

In short, if You dont find any good Doctor, perhaps Neuro-scientist (I would even pay for this) or somebody here or on reddit,

You have perhaps to go this way.

 

Strangely I´m so into this I would feel empty, if my problems are gone.

Anyway perhaps You have to go the money wasting and sometimes dangerous way of "Trial and Error" untill You´ll find somebody:

 

How do You respond to Cannabis ?

Not that I want to perusade You, I´m just asking for the case that You´ve allready used it.

- Instead of Ritaline,

You could try a reversible MAO-B inhibitor + PDE 4 inhibitor Neuravena

http://www.apotheke-...r-30stueck.html

- or MAO-A+B with Rhodiola rosea which decreases stress hormones like corticosterone

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20837037

https://www.google.d...0CIECEPMCMAs4FA

- For Canabinoid and GABA thesis:

Magnolia extract pills

http://www.ebay.de/i...=item35d8681f7f

http://www.ebay.de/i...=item4187459028

- Relora

Which contains only Honokiol, not Magnolol but Berberine

http://www.ebay.de/i...=item35ba1a9af6

- or just Berberine

http://www.super-sma...ne-500-mg--0633

( a bit too expensive )

- For cannabinoid thesis alone:

Maca extract

http://www.ebay.de/i...=item27c593c140

 

Cannbinoid CB1 blocker is Voacanga bark ( Rimonabant stays afaik for 7 days at the synapse so this could went easily wrong)

and a CBD source is here:

http://www.longecity...diol-cbd/page-7

 

Some of them thinn the blood, so dont throw them excesively in ;-)

 

Btw:

Could You PM Your source of Ritaline ?

Not that I´m interrested in this, but in other things.

 

Ah and avoid G&M Naturwaren / Hannes.

Its just herb powder without any extract

 

Edited by Flex, 31 October 2014 - 08:37 PM.

[Flex]

Forgot to add:

Salvia miltiorrhiza for the inhibition of glucocorticoid and mineralocorticoid receptors

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20380878

http://internet-apot...salviae-9740307

 

It also releases dopamine via potassium channel activation

but moderate it via Gaba activation, so its making actually tired

Be carefull in regards of mixing it with any other stuff or food e.g. too much garlic

it thinns the blood in different ways so, it "could perhaps" be dangerous.

Better do preventively a break of 5-7 days between other stuff.

 

 

Edited by Flex, 31 October 2014 - 10:32 PM.

[neroTulip]

Hi Flex,

 

Thank you very much for your answer.

 

Tons of info I never heard off. I’ll take me a while to plough through that.

 

I don’t respond very well to cannabis. It seems to make me more depressed. When I didn’t smoke for a long time, I feel relaxed for a while, but also completely dull. I also get very hungry. Chronic use even worsens my brainfog and my lack of motivation. To be honest I never liked it very much. Mainly because of the dullness, the brainfog and the lack of motivation. Areas that I have problems with anyways.

 

Kind Regards

Nero

Edited by neroTulip, 03 November 2014 - 09:31 AM.

[Flex]

Well we are perhaps in the same boat.

I also have some lasting issues through Cannabis.

 

If I have money somewhen, I will try CBD and Voacanga ( dunno I´m personally trusting more the nature than the Pharmas)

although Rimonabant could still be an option, despite the Depression and suicide reports.

I´m a blockhead in those regards ^^

 

Here is a source which offers those two

http://teamtlr.com/26-cannabinergics

 

But dont ask me about the quality, I dont know it.

Everyone talks the best from his self.

But its relative easy:

No evidence for the claims, means just: bla bla

 

An alternative source of Rimonabant are Bodybuilding/peptide vendors

https://www.geopepti...0mg-per-ml.html

 

If I remeber correctly, somebody or TLR(?) told that Rimonabant stays for several days in the synaptic space ( but cant guarantee that fact)

so better do "einschleichen" (lol) or You could try instead Voacanga.

 

But hey, I dont know that much about side effects !

And I cant say anything whether it would help, because I didnt had the money to try it. 

 

All I can say is, that THC acts on GPR55, CB1, CB2 as an agonist

and CBD blocks GPR55, whereas the other block the CB1 receptor.

 

An further alternative could be Curcumin but it seems strange

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19359525

VS.

http://link.springer...2-0716-2#page-1

- NRI or a2 adrenergic antagonism (mirtazepine), which increases glutamate.

D2 D3 + 5-ht2a inhibition do also increase Glutamate.

You could therefore, as said, try a SNRI or a tricyclic like Clomipramine

 

Btw: Be carefull with Glutamate it can destroy Braincells in excess.

So dont use a NMDA inhibitor with something Adrenergic or like that.

But You dont have to worry about Clomipramine & etc. in regards of too much Glutamate.

Edited by Flex, 03 November 2014 - 07:06 PM.