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Science and Quacks vs the aging process (I hate articles like this)

bullshit article fear mongering

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#1 TheFountain

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 03:46 AM


Is it just me or are articles like this designed to do two things?

 

The first of which is to frighten people into self paralysis and denial that we can and are doing something when we actively engage ourselves. 

 

The second is that it deduces every damn thing to magic genetics. With no mention of epigenetics and how CR, IF or several other proven methods can alter gene expression through thermodynamics!

 

Not a single mention of this and they want us to trust what this "doctor" says about dietary supplements or what I can do about health, aging and the rest of the equation? 

 

Nope, my guess is this article was written to frighten the people who are uncertain and on the fence. 

 

Whoever wrote this seems like an ignorant Tool.  But You be the judge.

 

http://mobile.nytime...pe=article&_r=0

 

Science (and Quacks) vs. the Aging Process
 
19IMMORTAL1-articleLarge.jpg
Alexander Turney, 96, is a participant in a longevity study conducted by the Albert Einstein College of Medicine.
MICHAEL APPLETON FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES
 
By TRACEY SAMUELSON
NOVEMBER 18, 2014

For thousands of years, people have sought to escape or outrun their mortality with potions, pills and elixirs, often blended with heavy doses of hope and will.

In the “Epic of Gilgamesh,” a Mesopotamian king searched for the secret of immortality after the death of his best friend. At least three Chinese emperors in the Tang dynasty died after consuming treatments containing lead and mercury that they hoped would make them immortal. In the late 19th century, a French-American physiologist seemed to have found the elixir of life by injecting the elderly and himself with extracts from animal testicles.

Despite this enduring quest, most scientists say we are no closer to eternal life today than we were all those years ago. The word “immortality” elicits a mixture of laughter and earnest explanations about the difference between science and science fiction.

Conversations about longevity, however, are an entirely different story. Researchers are optimistic about recent efforts to delay the effects of aging and, perhaps, extend life spans.

 
19SUBCOVER7-articleInline.jpg

But at the same time, the scientific community is wary of how quickly these findings are packaged and resold by companies promising a fountain of youth. “It’s probably worse today than it’s ever been,” said Dr. S. Jay Olshansky, a professor in the School of Public Health at the University of Illinois at Chicago and a research associate at the Center on Aging at the University of Chicago. “As soon as the scientists publish any glimmer of hope, the hucksters jump in and start selling.”

Understanding the process of aging and developing treatments that might slow the rate at which people grow old could help doctors keep patients healthy longer. We won’t be able to stop or reverse aging, but researchers are interested in slowing its progress, such that one year of clock time might not equal a year of biological time for the body. That could delay the onset of diseases like cancer, strokes, cardiovascular disease and dementia, which become more prevalent as people age.

“By targeting fundamental aging processes, we might be able to delay the major age-related chronic diseases instead of picking them off one at time,” said Dr. James Kirkland, a professor of aging research and head of the Robert and Arlene Kogod Center on Aging at the Mayo Clinic. “For example, we don’t want to have situation where we, say, cure cancer and then people die six months later ofAlzheimer’s disease or a stroke. It would be better to delay all of these things together.”

This is where the field known as the biology of aging is moving — to develop drugs that will increase life span and what researchers refer to as health span, the period of life when people are able to live independently and free from disease.

Dr. Kirkland said that at least six drugs had been written up in peer-reviewed journals and that he knew of about 20 others that appear to affect life span or health span in mice. The goal is to see if those benefits can be translated into humans to increase their longevity, “to find interventions that we can use in people that might, say, make a person who’s 90 feel like they’re 60 or a person who’s 70 feel like they’re 40 or 50.”

Other researchers are studying centenarians, seeking to understand whether certain genes have carried them past 100 years old and kept them in good health.

“Everybody knows someone who’s 60 who looks like he’s 50, or someone 60 who looks 70,” said Dr. Nir Barzilai, the director of the Institute for Aging Research at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine who is currently studying centenarians and their children. “Intuitively, we understand that we age at different rates, so the question is, really, ‘What’s the biological or genetic difference between those who age quickly and those who age slowly?’ ” Drugs that mimic the effect of those genes might be beneficial to the rest of the population not born with them.

Dr. Barzilai said that as a scientist his goal wasn’t to help people live longer, but to live healthier, although he did occasionally get emails from people interested in how his work might benefit their quest to live forever. He doesn’t respond — he says he has nothing to offer them.

 
19IMMORTAL2-articleLarge.jpg
Mr. Turney practiced some dance steps with his nurse, Debbie Trock, after he finished the walking exercises that were part of the longevity study.
MICHAEL APPLETON FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES

The global anti-aging industry was worth $195 billion in 2013 and was projected to grow to $275 billion by 2020, according to the market research firm Global Industry Analysts. Products include beauty creams, Botoxdietary supplementsand prescription medications, not all of which seek to reverse aging as much as minimize its visible effects.

Dr. Olshansky points to resveratrol supplements and human growth hormones as products that are marketed as having anti-aging benefits soon after initial scientific studies suggest promising results. But resveratrol, often made from the skin of red grapes, is still being studied and commercially available products are premature, he said. Growth hormones are a more severe risk, he said, because they can actually be dangerous for those who take them.

Dr. Barzilai noted that many of the centenarians he studied had naturally lower levels or activity of growth hormones.

“We think that’s important for their survival,” he said.

 
19IMMORTAL3-articleLarge.jpg
Mr. Turney has his lung capacity checked as part of the longevity study being conducted by the Albert Einstein College of Medicine.
MICHAEL APPLETON FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES

Other dietary supplements promise to help consumers reverse the aging clock. Such products aren’t required to prove their effectiveness or safety with the Food and Drug Administration before their sale, although the F.D.A. can take action against products that have misleading labels or that claim to treat diseases.

After being approached to sell a line of supplements, Melanie Young, a health coach who advises clients on weight and stress management, decided to try a series of products that promised to protect her body against the “ravages of aging.” She’d recently survived breast cancer and left behind a public relations and event management career. “A lot of health coaches supplement their own income by selling supplements,” she said.

She thought the company, which she didn’t want to name, had “all the right science.” But the half-dozen pills she took each morning and evening didn’t improve her energy as promised; they instead left her feeling dizzy. She quickly stopped taking them and told her clients to eat a balanced diet to get the nutrition they needed.

“People are aware of the aging process, and they want to interfere,” Dr. Barzilai said, but he said he thought it was a mistake to turn to Internet remedies. “Some are causing harm. Some, maybe, you couldn’t care less, and some might be even good, but we don’t know that.”

It is a message Dr. Olshansky echoes — instead of spending money on aging “fixes,” he suggests that people accept the bland prescription doctors have been offering for decades: a healthy diet and exercise. “You don’t need to spend money,” he said. “Maybe a good pair of running or walking shoes would work. Exercise is roughly the only equivalent of a fountain of youth that exists today, and it’s free to everyone.”

 

 

 


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#2 jroseland

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 05:00 PM

"$275 billion by 2020" At least!


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#3 Mind

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 07:39 PM

Most supplements are minimally effective for healthspan (when studied in isolation), but I am glad some people continue to give it a try. People who adopt a longevity lifestyle (diet & exercise) with supplements and hormones are great test beds for the rest of us. Some of it will work and the rest of us can learn from it.

 

Studying centenarians has proven mostly useless. These people have better genetics. End of story. Good for them. The rest of us lost the genetic lottery and will need something else.

 

 


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#4 Teakles

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 09:23 AM

I am absolutly sure that lonevity goes from inside, from your internal perception. People who complain regularly, search for some illness  - will of course find it. people who pay attention to good things which happen in their lives and have confidence that their health is better day by day - will live longer and happier.



#5 niner

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 01:19 PM

I don't think this article is all that bad.  Look at the comments from Dr. Kirkland-- he wants to slow aging and extend healthspan.  It wasn't that long ago that aging was considered to be something that was cast in stone, that you could do nothing about.  To talk about altering it might have had bad consequences for your career.  Now it's mainstream scientific thought!  I have no problem with warnings against hucksterism.  BTW, Jay Olshansky has an account here, although he hasn't posted in ages.  This article is basically talking about where we are today, right now.  We have nothing today that will make you biologically immortal.  We're working on that problem, (and you can help!!) but it's not ready yet.  The article was perhaps a little dour regarding the tools we have at our disposal today that will increase healthspan, but the author was talking to mainstream medicine types.  I don't think she was trying to harm people by writing this; I think she was trying to help them not waste money on the vast quantity of useless crap being proffered by MLM hucksters and the like.



#6 Marios Kyriazis

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 02:20 PM

Their final advice about exercise and healthy lifestyle is what Hippocrates used to recommend, and it is of no significant use to those who want to actively influence aging (who are likely to be already exercising and leading a healthy lifestyle). Many of the existing pills may not work, but some others do, to an extent. To dismiss everything as useless is...well, useless advice. It would be more productive to concentrate on what does work, and discuss it, highlighting both its good and the bad points, so people can make their own choice.


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#7 nowayout

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 04:16 PM

I don't see anything wrong with the article.  What exactly is your problem with it? 

 

The article is quite positive regarding the goal of slowing aging.  The reality, though, is that there are no new interventions proved to work yet. 

 

The bearer is not culpable for the bad news.  I think you are just shooting the messenger here. 


Edited by nowayout, 05 December 2014 - 04:22 PM.


#8 sthira

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 07:21 PM

My problem isn't so much with the news article, but with the state of the research itself. From the article:

"People are aware of the aging process, and they want to interfere,” Dr. Barzilai said, but he said he thought it was a mistake to turn to Internet remedies. “Some are causing harm. Some, maybe, you couldn’t care less, and some might be even good, but we don’t know that.”

It is a message Dr. Olshansky echoes — instead of spending money on aging “fixes,” he suggests that people accept the bland prescription doctors have been offering for decades: a healthy diet and exercise. “You don’t need to spend money,” he said. “Maybe a good pair of running or walking shoes would work. Exercise is roughly the only equivalent of a fountain of youth that exists today, and it’s free to everyone.”

To me, this just isn't good enough. It seems clear that if we don't push -- if we don't try following the research and then experimenting on a personal level with various touted supplement interventions or whatever -- then the alternative is: nothing. Or, the alternative to trying weird unproven stuff (Resveratrol, telomere-extenders, CR, blood transfusions, c60oo, NR, on and on with these dashed hopes that don't work) the alternative to these is to just grow old, sick, and demented like our ancestors.

SENs seems to far offer us nothing. Lots of words, a website, a staff of important people who all say nothing works, then constant requests for more donations to perform more studies, maybe offer science conferences which are not affordable to attend (and when we do attend, we just learn more details about why nothing works, and how we need to not get ahead of the science, it's too early to try anything interesting, eg, rapamycin...)

I agree it's a very frustrating moment in history to we who are tantalized by extending our health and lifespans while simultaneously informed than nothing works except diet and exercise, wear a car seatbelt, don't smoke, don't drink too much alcohol (some alcohol? No alcohol? Who knows...) I don't understand the slow pace. The tired old excuse of "human biology is just too damned complicated" is not good enough.
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#9 niner

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 10:08 PM

Barzilai said
 

some might be even good, but we don’t know that.”

 


Something tells me that Dr. B and his colleagues don't want to know that.

 

To me, this just isn't good enough. It seems clear that if we don't push -- if we don't try following the research and then experimenting on a personal level with various touted supplement interventions or whatever -- then the alternative is: nothing. Or, the alternative to trying weird unproven stuff (Resveratrol, telomere-extenders, CR, blood transfusions, c60oo, NR, on and on with these dashed hopes that don't work) the alternative to these is to just grow old, sick, and demented like our ancestors.


This is the stuff that "might even be good"...
 

SENs seems to far offer us nothing. Lots of words, a website, a staff of important people who all say nothing works, then constant requests for more donations to perform more studies, maybe offer science conferences which are not affordable to attend (and when we do attend, we just learn more details about why nothing works, and how we need to not get ahead of the science, it's too early to try anything interesting, eg, rapamycin...)


I think that's overly pessimistic. SENS has been running on a relative shoestring, compared to the money we squander invest in cancer treatments that give you two more months of miserable life. We can help to change that.



#10 sthira

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 11:34 PM


Something tells me that Dr. B and his colleagues don't want to know that.

What do you mean? What are you suggesting? Are you suggesting that because SENS hasn't (or won't) study c60oo that they don't want potentially good stuff to work?


I think that's overly pessimistic. SENS has been running on a relative shoestring, compared to the money we squander invest in cancer treatments that give you two more months of miserable life. We can help to change that.


Yes, maybe my comments are too pessimistic. Yet you linked to what I've been reading on the SENS site for several years now, eg:

"Early stage medical biotechnology research of the sort carried out at the SENS Research Foundation costs little nowadays in comparison to the recent past. The cost of tools and techniques in biotechnology has plummeted in the past decade, even while capabilities have greatly increased. A graduate student with $20,000 can accomplish in a few months what would have required a full laboratory, years, and tens of millions of dollars in the 1990s..."

Beautiful! I say great! So I've been reading those words for a few years now, and I'd like to know what relevant studies were accomplished, and where are the results?

I'll donate to SENS when it feels like I'm not throwing good money at bad money.

Edited by sthira, 05 December 2014 - 11:38 PM.

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#11 niner

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 02:59 AM

 

Something tells me that Dr. B and his colleagues don't want to know that.

 
What do you mean? What are you suggesting? Are you suggesting that because SENS hasn't (or won't) study c60oo that they don't want potentially good stuff to work?

 


It's my frustration talking. The whole modern gerontology enterprise is composed of people with their own agendas, chasing their own particular compounds and research interests. Some of them want to get rich, and they've tied up interesting compounds (or worse, compound classes) with patents. Most will ignore new developments, or they aren't interested in trying to reproduce an important result because they "don't believe it", due to the fact that it hasn't been reproduced. Stuff like that.
 

 

I think that's overly pessimistic. SENS has been running on a relative shoestring, compared to the money we squander invest in cancer treatments that give you two more months of miserable life. We can help to change that.


Yes, maybe my comments are too pessimistic. Yet you linked to what I've been reading on the SENS site for several years now, eg:

"Early stage medical biotechnology research of the sort carried out at the SENS Research Foundation costs little nowadays in comparison to the recent past. The cost of tools and techniques in biotechnology has plummeted in the past decade, even while capabilities have greatly increased. A graduate student with $20,000 can accomplish in a few months what would have required a full laboratory, years, and tens of millions of dollars in the 1990s..."

Beautiful! I say great! So I've been reading those words for a few years now, and I'd like to know what relevant studies were accomplished, and where are the results?

I'll donate to SENS when it feels like I'm not throwing good money at bad money.

I guess we need more advertising of things that SENS has accomplished, in addition to their intramural work and their strong extramural program.  I'm particularly interested in the efforts they're making within their extramural program to develop infrastructure for more widespread experimental work in the elimination of glucosepane AGE crosslinks.  One thing to bear in mind with SENS is that they are doing research that while very goal-directed, is also at a very basic level.  It's not the sort of thing that will lead to a treatment tomorrow or next year.  The reason I donate to SENS is because they are the only people working on things that are likely to help people who are already middle aged, and are the only people with a program that I think has a chance to profoundly change humanity.

 

I don't think the money I've given to SENS was a bad investment at all.  God knows, my life is littered with past expenditures that "seemed like a good idea at the time".  I'm very comfortable having given money to SENS, and will be giving them more in the future.


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#12 Mind

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 11:49 AM

I donate to SENS as well. Best bang for my buck.



#13 Marios Kyriazis

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 12:48 PM

One major disadvantage of SENS and similar approaches is that (unintentionally of course) it encourages people to sit back, give some money and wait for others to come up with the answers. We will eventually come to accept that the answer to aging depends on us, on our environment (niche), how we adapt to this environment, and what role - in the evolutionary sense- each one of us plays within society. Some of the most active and interested advocates of life extension (such as niner and Mind, here) go over and above simple donations and try to play an active role. But the majority of people do little more than to post a few comments about future genetic therapies and then do nothing else to change the status quo themselves.


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#14 TheFountain

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 11:25 PM

I don't think this article is all that bad.  Look at the comments from Dr. Kirkland-- he wants to slow aging and extend healthspan.  It wasn't that long ago that aging was considered to be something that was cast in stone, that you could do nothing about.  To talk about altering it might have had bad consequences for your career.  Now it's mainstream scientific thought!  I have no problem with warnings against hucksterism.  BTW, Jay Olshansky has an account here, although he hasn't posted in ages.  This article is basically talking about where we are today, right now.  We have nothing today that will make you biologically immortal.  We're working on that problem, (and you can help!!) but it's not ready yet.  The article was perhaps a little dour regarding the tools we have at our disposal today that will increase healthspan, but the author was talking to mainstream medicine types.  I don't think she was trying to harm people by writing this; I think she was trying to help them not waste money on the vast quantity of useless crap being proffered by MLM hucksters and the like.

 

But he is still miles behind us with regard to his attitude toward the aging process itself. 

 

I think we were ahead of his attitude 5 years ago, he has decades till he catches up to our community mentality regarding the aging process. 


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#15 TheFountain

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 11:29 PM

I don't see anything wrong with the article.  What exactly is your problem with it? 

 

The article is quite positive regarding the goal of slowing aging.  The reality, though, is that there are no new interventions proved to work yet. 

 

The bearer is not culpable for the bad news.  I think you are just shooting the messenger here. 

 

My problem with the article is it ignores the science behind many supplements.

 

It ignores how useful Resveratrol can be, it ignores carotenoids, it ignores the various publications on anti-oxidants and their contribution to longevity, it ignores telomere lengtheners and the actual research that has been conducted on them. It does precious little but deny the existing research in favor of a bland medical perspective. 

 

"Only your doctor knows best" is the tone of this damn article. 


Edited by TheFountain, 06 December 2014 - 11:30 PM.





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