7 replies to this topic

[serp777]

I'm wondering if there are any supplements out there that improve the speed of memory consolidation or otherwise improve the efficiency of rem sleep.

 

It would be amazing if there was a drug that could make six hours or five hours of sleep equivalent to eight. MAybe this is just a pipe dream but has there been any research or progress on such a drug?

[Gerrans]

Quality of sleep is improved if the mind is restful. I take magnesium in the evening and it makes me feel relaxed and my worries less insistent.

 

In the last year I have deliberately reduced my sleep from eight hours to about six; and it does not seem to have harmed me. I have dispensed with the last period of somewhat light and intermittent sleep which I believe has relatively little value (because once the body and brain have refreshed themselves over night they are ready to go).

[serp777]

Quality of sleep is improved if the mind is restful. I take magnesium in the evening and it makes me feel relaxed and my worries less insistent.

 

In the last year I have deliberately reduced my sleep from eight hours to about six; and it does not seem to have harmed me. I have dispensed with the last period of somewhat light and intermittent sleep which I believe has relatively little value (because once the body and brain have refreshed themselves over night they are ready to go).

 

What kind of magnesium do you take and at what dosage? Also have you done a quantitative analysis--such as seen any decreases in test scores, etc after getting only 6 hours?

 

I usually take magnesium l threonate since it helps with sleep a lot, but I still feel groggy and tired unless I get 8 hours. Any less than that and I feel compelled to nap/ feel like poop.

[Gerrans]

I have taken all sorts of magnesium. I believe the best supplement companies produce pills and capsules that are more or less equivalent to each other in effect, regardless of how much magnesium is quoted on the label. It is the absorption level that equalises the effect between, say, a magnesium oxide pill and a magnesium citrate pill. At the moment I take two magnesium citrate pills. The effect is not overt--you just get used to the lack of worry-interrupted sleep. Try four pills a couple of hours before bed, and I think you will physically feel your laid-back, chilled state when you get into bed. But that much is not necessary.

 

I do work that involves intense concentration, and I am able to do it just as well on six hours of sleep as previously on eight. But they have to be good hours of sleep. If something spoils my sleep, then I will take extra sleep to make up the difference. I think a Sunday lie in is a good weekly valve to have, though mostly I do not need it.

[serp777]

I have taken all sorts of magnesium. I believe the best supplement companies produce pills and capsules that are more or less equivalent to each other in effect, regardless of how much magnesium is quoted on the label. It is the absorption level that equalises the effect between, say, a magnesium oxide pill and a magnesium citrate pill. At the moment I take two magnesium citrate pills. The effect is not overt--you just get used to the lack of worry-interrupted sleep. Try four pills a couple of hours before bed, and I think you will physically feel your laid-back, chilled state when you get into bed. But that much is not necessary.

 

I do work that involves intense concentration, and I am able to do it just as well on six hours of sleep as previously on eight. But they have to be good hours of sleep. If something spoils my sleep, then I will take extra sleep to make up the difference. I think a Sunday lie in is a good weekly valve to have, though mostly I do not need it.

 

Hmm interesting. Have you tried magnesium l threonate and how does that compare with citrate in terms of sleep?. Thanks by the way.

[Gerrans]

I have experimented with magnesium L-threonate and I found it much the same as any other magnesium, so I dropped it because it costs more. I am a bit confused by the science behind it because it is said to get through the blood-brain barrier better than other formulations. But my experience of the relaxing effects before sleep surely shows that the other magnesium types get to my brain well enough. (By the way, I am not suggesting that magnesium actually induces sleep. Sometimes I find it hard to sleep even after taking magnesium, but the difference is that I do not feel bothered about it. I just lie there calmly, not stressing about the slow sleep onset, which has been a perennial problem of mine. I do not have racing thoughts when taking magnesium.)

 

I think my favourite formulas were magnesium glycinate and magnesium taurate. But I lately got a good deal on magnesium citrate, so I am going through that. Magnesium malate is fine too, as is LEF's mag 500, which is largely oxide.

 

I am not a great one for ascribing powers to supplements, because I am immune to most things. But I am in no doubt that magnesium is gently relaxing to me and calms my thoughts. Too much gets a bit cloying, but a couple of pills feels just about right.

 

We are all different, though. Other people might not respond the same.

Edited by Gerrans, 22 November 2014 - 11:06 PM.

[12 String]

 

In young subjects, high-dose MK-677 treatment resulted in an approximately 50% increase in the duration of stage IV and in a more than 20% increase in REM sleep as compared to placebo (p < 0.05). The frequency of deviations from normal sleep decreased from 42% under placebo to 8% under high-dose MK-677 (p < 0.03). In older adults, treatment with MK-677 was associated with a nearly 50% increase in REM sleep (p < 0.05) and a decrease in REM latency (p < 0.02). The frequency of deviations from normal sleep also decreased (p < 0.02). The present findings suggest that MK-677 may simultaneously improve sleep quality and correct the relative hyposomatotropism of senescence.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9349662

 

It's a SARM, available only as a research chemical, but it has been through some human trials. Oral dosage. Also known as Ibutamoren (MK-677, L-163,191). It's expensive.

[serp777]

 

 

In young subjects, high-dose MK-677 treatment resulted in an approximately 50% increase in the duration of stage IV and in a more than 20% increase in REM sleep as compared to placebo (p < 0.05). The frequency of deviations from normal sleep decreased from 42% under placebo to 8% under high-dose MK-677 (p < 0.03). In older adults, treatment with MK-677 was associated with a nearly 50% increase in REM sleep (p < 0.05) and a decrease in REM latency (p < 0.02). The frequency of deviations from normal sleep also decreased (p < 0.02). The present findings suggest that MK-677 may simultaneously improve sleep quality and correct the relative hyposomatotropism of senescence.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9349662

 

It's a SARM, available only as a research chemical, but it has been through some human trials. Oral dosage. Also known as Ibutamoren (MK-677, L-163,191). It's expensive.

 

 

very interesting, but i'm worried about that fact that it increases growth hormone. Although that may be a non issue, if you have a susceptibility to cancer it could increase your odds of contracting cancer, or accelerating latent cancer.