23 replies to this topic

[mag1]

After neurons mature they enter the G0 phase of the cell cycle.

This should mean that people's neurons outlive their bodies,

 

Does not this suggest a simple route to vastly extended human life span?

 

By simply printing off human organs on a 3D printer one would have the necessary biological machinery

to live a very substantial period of time (perhaps indefinitely). One of the only remaining concerns would  be neurodegenerative illness.

 

[Danail Bulgaria]

Yup, a lot of hopes are being given to the genetically identical organs transplantation.

 

The neurons die away, however. The senile changes of the brain confirm it...

 

There has to be found a way to imbune new neurons in the brain.

[mag1]

Neurodegeneration is not inevitable.

Some people do live to the maximum of human life span without it.

For them, it is their bodies that ultimately fail: not their brains.

If they had access to regenerated organs, then they would likely be able to continue to live for a

substantial period of time.

[Marios Kyriazis]

Age-related damage affects all organs, including neurons. It is true that neurons may be able to outlive their host, but they are still subjected to damage and will eventually fail. We don't know how long human neurons can live in a healthy body, but it could be that it is only a matter of a few years. For example if Jean Calment was able to live another 10 or 20 years, it is possible that she would exhibit significant loss of function due to neurodegeneration.

 

In any case, the general fact that human neurons can survive for a long time is an indication that evolutionary mechanisms are in favour of maintaining cognitive abilities for as long as possible,

[Danail Bulgaria]

How about replacing neurons in the brain, and training them to take the jodlb of the death neurons?

[Antonio2014]

How about replacing neurons in the brain, and training them to take the jodlb of the death neurons?

 

You can find a review of the current state of the research and the problems faced here: http://www.sens.org/...gent-janus-face

[mag1]

I still do not understand why the life extension community has not embraced the organ printing and replacement strategy as a near term strategy. Without a tangible success to point to, life extension will always seem on the fringe. Though from the comments above, there seems to be agreement that life extension is limited only by organs (which are replaceable) instead of  neurons. Yes, over the very long term view, questions related to cell replacement etc. would need to be resolved. However, why not grab the low hanging fruit? Current technology would allow for an impressive demonstration of the brain outlives the body hypothesis. Considerable attention

would be paid to any research group that could provide an example of an 150 year old human with intact cognition.  

 

It is important to note that current technology can detect brain changes that lead to Alzheimer's decades before clinical symptoms emerge. Once a person exhibits clinical signs of AD, the illness phase can last more than a decade. If a life extension experiment were undertaken, a subject could be selected based on the absence of such neurodegenerative pathology. Recently a mutation in the APP gene was found to be very protective against AD. People who are carriers of this mutation are super-agers with superior cognition into advanced age.  

[Danail Bulgaria]

I still do not understand why the life extension community has not embraced the organ printing and replacement strategy as a near term strategy.  ....

 

Hi mag1, it seems, that you have registered recently, or that you haven't been very active. If you go more regularly here, you will at some point notice, that the main part of the people here are not scientists, but rather a random crowd. They can't do for the 3D organs printing more than understand and learn about it. For pushing the big stone of the science even one milimeter further, they don't have neither the knowledge, nor the money (to buy a 3D printer for example), nor experience with science, nor the medical knowlege needed to do transplantations, nor the time needed for evolve the idea. If you can't understand why the life extension community didn't embrace the 3d organ printing strategy, ask yourself the same question - why you yourself don't embrace the 3d organ printing and transplantation things and make them happen.

[Antonio2014]

Organ failure is not the only threat to longevity. An organ transplantation can't save you from metastasis, atherosclerosis, AGE (Advanced Glycation End-products) accumulation, ... Also, you surely don't want a brain transplantation, don't you?

Edited by Antonio2014, 24 November 2014 - 09:37 AM.

[Danail Bulgaria]

Well... it can if we develope much further the transplantation and the 3D organs printing, than its current state.

 

AGE (Advanced Glycation End-products) accumulation in organs can be treated by replacing the organ with younger organs.

 

atherosclerosis of the blood vessels can be treated by transplanting blood vessels without atherosclerosis in them

 

Metastases in the organs - replace the entire organs.

 

Metsatses on the skin, bones and other tissues - large resections and tissues replacement.

 

Only the metastases in the brain are something, that I can't think out a solution for.

[Antonio2014]

All the solutions you propose have the same problem:

 

The damages I cited are spread damages, they affect a lot of organs at the same time, or even the whole body. You can't remove them by simple transplanting one organ or a few organs. For example, metastatic cells spread through the blood and limpha. Even if you replace a kidney with cancer, you still probably have hundreds of places in your body with metastatic cells. All the atherosclerosis solution doesn't make sense. How will you replace your entire circulatory system with a 3D-printed one??

[Danail Bulgaria]

Alright. We will combine the solutions with a futuristic blood and lymph cancer cells cleaning device, similar with the dialysis devices today.

[Antonio2014]

I think there will not be a single antiaging treatment. SENS lists 7 kinds of damage, each requiring a different kind of treatment, and even several treatments for each kind of damage. Probably in a postSENS age we will find other kinds of damage, that requiere other treatments.

[Danail]

How many would be the treatments, according to you?

[Antonio2014]

Nobody knows. The damage that SENS lists are the damages we can see today. But, when all SENS repair therapies are developed and we start living 150 or 200 years, probably other kinds of damage will become apparent, damages that accumulate more slowly than SENS damages and can oly be seen when we reach these ages.

Edited by Antonio2014, 28 November 2014 - 09:23 PM.

[Danail]

All sorts of accumulation chnges can be undone with younger organs transplantations.

[Antonio2014]

Nope. Read the above posts.

[corb]

Age-related damage affects all organs, including neurons. It is true that neurons may be able to outlive their host, but they are still subjected to damage and will eventually fail. We don't know how long human neurons can live in a healthy body, but it could be that it is only a matter of a few years. For example if Jean Calment was able to live another 10 or 20 years, it is possible that she would exhibit significant loss of function due to neurodegeneration.

 

Definitely. Neurons are not isolated from aging, there's supple amount of articles linked in the biomed news section about it, I've even posted some of them myself because it's an interesting topic for me - well it should be for everyone interested in life extension really, if you can't keep your brain young there really isn't much point to a longer lifespan.

 

Hopefully the damage in the brain can be completely halted or at least significantly slowed down in the near future, it's really one of those things that can make it or break it for life extension - as someone already pointed out in this thread - you wouldn't want to get a brain implant .

Edited by corb, 01 December 2014 - 07:46 PM.

[Danail Bulgaria]

Neurons are constantly dying. It can be seen by comaring hystologies (reduction of the neuron cells number) and brain scans of people (shrinking of the brain as general, deepening of the brain grooves) at different ages. The function of the brain can be restored at some degree, but with no new neurons produced naturally. I can't see another way to restore the number of the neurons except of artifitially (man made, operatively) replacing them with new ones...

 

Ofcourse, if some one has another oppinion, please share it.

 

[corb]

Neurons are constantly dying. It can be seen by comaring hystologies (reduction of the neuron cells number) and brain scans of people (shrinking of the brain as general, deepening of the brain grooves) at different ages. The function of the brain can be restored at some degree, but with no new neurons produced naturally. I can't see another way to restore the number of the neurons except of artifitially (man made, operatively) replacing them with new ones...

 

Ofcourse, if some one has another oppinion, please share it.

 

All the up to date papers I read say the brain has stem cells just like any other tissue. It should be capable of a repair.
The problem there is not the lack or inferiority of the repair mechanism. It's the other maintenance mechanisms which should be clearing out the junk and specifically the glymphatic system which are quite frail - the same damage people suffer with age can be observed in a young brain that has suffered a traumatic injury, because the trauma leads to a failure of the glymphatic system as well.

 

So it's not a question of repairing the brain, it's a question of avoiding the damage altogether. Probably by getting better clearance - both by upregulating the proteins already clearing up the junk and potentially with synthetic compounds like SENS proposes.

 

And of course avoiding getting hit in the head is a good idea too.

[mag1]

I do not understand the pessimism from the above comments.

 

A family member has struggled with Alzheimer's disease for decades. Dementing illness can be a very slowly progressive illness. It is true that ultimately everyone would likely be at risk for neurodegenerative illness, though considering the current advances in treatment, it is quite possible that if someone could preserve their other organ function then an effective treatment for dementia would arrive in time for them. They would only have to bridge over the dementia treatment.

 

The admission that the brain might outlive the body is (for me) very provocative.   

[Danail Bulgaria]

Ooohhhh, mag1, do you know how many sciences and non-science folks for how long time are trying to stop the dementia, and nothing really has been done so far. There are brain trainings, medications, advices for healthy life and sleep, herbs and whatever non traditional medicine. The best thing, that all that treatments do is that they only slow down the process, and they are not even slowing it fast enough. After huge amounts of money and hours of work wasted, nothing so far stops the dementia, not even mentioning reverses it. How not to be pessimist?

 

@corb, it seems, that for one or another reason the stem cells in the brain are not producing new neurons. So the prospect of making them outside the brain and transplanting them together with an extracellular tissue again comes as only theoretical option for now.

 

Edited by seivtcho, 04 December 2014 - 12:40 PM.

[Area-1255]

Sebastian Shaw...

 

 

[Area-1255]

The key to immortality would be to optimize hormone output by a diverse pharmacological and herbal regimen, focusing on growth hormone, growth factors, sex hormones and secondary factors such as SIRT-1.

 

You would also want to keep stress levels / hormones down, and alter the expression of neuro peptide Y ------

BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, RELENTLESSLY PURSUING WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY.

Then next, is making sure your confidence rivals your enthusiasm....

I'm fully convinced that the only people who achieve, are those who carry a sense of perpetual hypomania, at some time or another, even if brief .