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Pramiracetam killed me ?

brain damage mental weakness depression anxiety

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#1 Babychris

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 07:19 PM


Hello dear brothers and sisters. To be concise and clear let me explain. First of all I always been anxious and that is not my actual problem. I had a very very harsh year it was the 2012-2013 period when I had a veryyy challenging exam that led me to try a lot of stuff and not in the best manner.

 

The most awful stuff were modafinil and maybe more deeply pramiracetam. That could sound like a paranoid affirmation but trust I had some very serious side effects with these two, more periphicaly with modafinil with some heavy heavy dizziness and malaise and of course huge anxiety and kind of mania. Pramiracetam was absolutely mysterious : brain zaps, terrible feeling of doomness and emptyness, paranoia, sleep paralysis; Since then I achieve what I wanted to do last year but I'm not the same. I still feel weirdo since pramiracetam I had absolutely no sexual desire, not one day like as I have unactivated this brain zone. I'm not very fun anymore and I can't laugh too... I don't feel spontaneous anymore...

 

Do you think those symptoms are just the creation of my anxious and depressed mind or is it possible that pramicateam and/or modafinil had an impact on my brain ?

 

No dispespect here but I'm affraid that people here have not enough science to help me...

 

For info I have no obvious reason anymore to be depressed since I can continue my medical doctor studies... Even I have a lot of worries in life but that can't explain those brain weakness and this radical change of what I was and what I am...



#2 StevesPetRat

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 07:36 PM

The racetams have been on a rampage this week!


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#3 timhill88@outlook.com

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 07:41 PM

I took alot of nootropics bud and i eneded up with same as u with sevre brain fog notknowing where I am



#4 Babychris

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 08:06 AM

Yeah same here I live in a permanent semi-brain fog but more like a heavy head since I had a very intense sleep paralysis under modafinil. That's quite hellish and of course I think that there's no real cure. How to repair  something when you don't even know what you have destroyed ? 

 

Maybe Cerebrolysin.. ?



#5 timhill88@outlook.com

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 10:14 AM

hmm I didnt take Cerebrolysin... and im from UK and doctors here dont have a clue even nootropics they know os modafinil and thats it... So I think I might have done long term damage where I cant even have a vitmain Tablet and I swear it sets the dizzyness and anxity off many times I told the guys here about wht I took and what happend and many thought I was just testing out which nootoprics were good which we can find out whats good and whats not on internet but neever the less Now I met you who also had the same ossue.

 

I will post all of my story and maybe u could releate it but certainly I took Pricatam and modafinil togther and many more



#6 timhill88@outlook.com

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 10:16 AM

I took ,iron,zinc, vitamin C, b complex, omega 369, gingko biloba, cholin birrate, tribuls, maganism, Ltheanine, guraana 200mg, ecchinea, vinpoctine, phosphatigyl, Pramiracetam, Huperzine A, CO-enzyme Q10 and modafinil and cofee. I took all this for 6 months everyday with creatine and taurine addeed and I ended up having alot of panic attacks unable to breath, dizzyness, alot of anxity :( to a point i had to take my shoes off on the bus.. So I took way more stuff and took em throughout the day



#7 timhill88@outlook.com

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 10:21 AM

Dont give up though I cant have any powder or tablet if u can bare tablet or powder I would look into amino acid to balance the brain chemistry .

 

I have been on anti depressents didnt work anti phychtoic GP tired all the drugs that they have for anxity didnt work and made it worse


To me we are the testing AGE of nootropics, and this website is probley will be a tester on humans on the results what nootropics get in my openion becuase there hasnt been much sifficent so the data on this website will be able to help scienctists to know humans have tire dit and what the long term effects were



#8 Keizo

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 10:55 AM

If these problems are related to glutamate toxicity or some sort of homeostatic response to this activation, maybe Cerebrolysin will help. 
It does positively affect the GABA system (and from user reports, a lot of people feel calmer and less depressed), and cause "Increased density of glutamate receptor subunit 1"
Besides it perhaps having a general positive effect on brain health.
 
Though I don't have any deep knowledge about this. I used this stuff for benzo paws.
 
 

Edited by Keizo, 30 November 2014 - 10:56 AM.

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#9 timhill88@outlook.com

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 11:03 AM

Chears

Keizo

#10 Keizo

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 12:36 PM

These states of mind you two describe remind me how I felt last year, after having quit benzodiazepines. Or rather general effects some people experience after quitting benzodiazepines. 

I was extremely tense (also in my body), some would say anxious however it was also a rather numb and emotionally blunted state (so I would simply call it tension). Very easily if being in social situations would I get shaking hands and so on (social anxiety is a problem I have had long before this). I had a particular problem with brain fog and not being interested in anything, not being able to hold conversation (things just stood still in my head).

 

Perhaps the combination of modafinil and a racetam (or other additions) could cause a similar circumstance for some people. Wherein there occurs http://en.wikipedia..../Excitotoxicity This of course leaves something to be explained. (Whereas with benzodiazepines, we know that there is decreased function of the GABA system and compensatory increased gutamatergic activity in response to the drug, that given enough time or upon cessation can show itself as withdrawal).

If you are very tense in the neck area, that can be a cause of dizziness and poor cognition.

 


Edited by Keizo, 30 November 2014 - 12:42 PM.


#11 timhill88@outlook.com

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 12:44 PM

I stopped taking everything and this morning I tired to have Vitamin B3 and Im geting dizzyness and headces i have an appointment with a neurologiest in 2 months who wont probley have an idea as well my head is killing me right now


So yh I wont b taking any nootropics anyway I cant anyway and il just live like this as I tired many different methods and I dont wanna lose what I have left which is im alive at least :(



#12 timhill88@outlook.com

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 12:51 PM

Thanks bud Keizo though for helping me :( Il just carry on I took all that becuase I was raised and abused and wasnt great in mental tasks I gues I should be thankful I didnt have dizzyness and anxity but I hve them both now for one year i have been home and go out only for shopping and in home town and burning through my savings I watch movies, and stay in my room our GPs phychrists dont know what caused all this and are not willing to send me for brain scans as its NHS funding.

I turly feel helpless



#13 timhill88@outlook.com

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 12:55 PM

As im typing sweaty hands as well and dizzyness I think its anxity ??



#14 thomasthetrain212

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 05:31 PM

Cut out everything and reintroduce one by one. That list you had was so many things and so many variables. You also should be looking at environmental changes as well as dietary changes. There are so many variables that could be causing this. You need to do a complete system reset.
I think you should actually cut it all off for awhile. A few weeks with some serious detoxing.

#15 timhill88@outlook.com

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 06:11 PM

Hey thanks fpr reply and i havent touched a single thing for a year since i got ill and i did do basic detoxing with green tea alot pf water

#16 timhill88@outlook.com

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 06:15 PM

Iv beeen home all time im sending my hair sample for mercury testing if thata all clear i wil leave it i get more pain from tryin tablets
Im giving up i really feel down

#17 Babychris

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 07:46 PM

I'm exactly like you. Sorry but it seems that the issue we are facing is not a mercury intoxication and you going to a new dispointement. I will not say because I can't that I'm really hopefull about the future but you MUST don't give up ! 

 

You made the right decision by cutting everything and definitely. Don't reintroduce ANYTHING. If you want I strongly recommand you to try maybe some cerebrolysin and then NSI-189 as for me I have tried the later with good results but absolutely nothing we can compare to the old myself (which had A LOT of bad parts but everything that made who I'm) 

 

The most difficult is to don't know who I'am can't feel any real love, laugh, can't enjoy a movie etc..

 

Cognitively I have lost A LOT too! But that's a good point that we have found ourselve but we must take care to not push down each other but encourage to maybe find someday our old good self 

 

Finally please try to speak with your purest english. I see that you are from London I ask you that to see how evoluate your cognitive function...

 

 



#18 timhill88@outlook.com

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 09:49 PM

Sorry about the slang and I cant even take a multivitamin tablet let alone nootropics alot of headces so I dont think I can regarding me feeling as you and Yes I totally feel the same.


and yh I agree we wont be the same again as anxity is a natural response and the science isnt advanced as yet t do a brain scan to find out however by talking here I havnt given up and bealive me I didnt get out of bed today only on phone t check emails



#19 Babychris

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 10:21 PM

Yes same here now I react badly to every single product I can take...



#20 timhill88@outlook.com

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 10:45 PM

Hang in ther budy make sure u eat well abs excercise and wl leave it and o hav posted about my self online on most site that talk about nootropixs om hoping others learn from it drink water bud and hang in ther wr still breathing

#21 timhill88@outlook.com

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 10:48 PM

I finished my study doubt il get a job but in gna go for basic job cleaning doesnt require alot so i can still move and respond so il just do that itl put food ob table and bud if u ever come to UK let me knw il c u bud

#22 StevesPetRat

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 07:07 AM

Do you guys have many of these symptoms? If so, I think I know how to help.



#23 timhill88@outlook.com

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 07:19 AM

Hey thanks for reply and yh all of them its been a year thanks for the suggestions

Edited by timhill88@outlook.com, 01 December 2014 - 07:20 AM.


#24 Babychris

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 07:31 AM

You think that we need something cholinergic ? Sorry but that's ridiculous if you have an other opinion just tell 



#25 Keizo

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 10:13 AM

What doses did you use?



#26 timhill88@outlook.com

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 11:15 AM

Are you asking Chris or Me??



#27 timhill88@outlook.com

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 12:01 PM

I used everything as recommended dosage bt mixed eveything up

#28 Babychris

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 02:24 PM

Always been reasonable but made some terrible exception that I strongly suspect to be the culprit like mega-dosing aniracetam, Pramiracetam and one time modafinil...

 

it was about 10g of aniracetam 5 of pramiracetam not in the same course



#29 Tram

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 08:42 PM

How are you all doing now? It does sound like anxiety is, if not the source of your troubles, then at least a potentiatior. It's remarkable how powerful anxiety can be on both your mind and body. Have you tried meditating or cognitive behavioral therapy? What about travel? It sounds too simple to be true, but travel is a powerful medicine. A trip to London when I was 23 helped me finally overcome, once and for all, a horrible, life-altering, half-a-decade experience with tinnitus, hyperacusis (intolerance of everyday sounds to the point of suicidal ideation), OCD, hypochondria, depression, and bipolar disorder. 

 

You probably know about this already, but long-lasting, unchecked anxiety can manifest itself as a somatoform disorder, which means you exhibit very real and very distressing physical symptoms that mimic a range of diseases. I had terrible OCD and hypochondria and germaphobia for years and literally thought I had, or would soon manifest, conditions as unlikely as trichinosis, rabies, stroke, aneurysm, heart attack, multiple sclerosis, hypothyroidism, multiple-endocrine neoplasia (which runs in my family but which I do not have), diabetes, etc. On top of that, when I was 18, I developed tinnitus and hyperacusis from playing in loud bands. It changed the course of my life and kept me from playing music for years because I was constantly afraid I'd go deaf by age 21. I couldn't sleep because all I could hear was roaring and buzzing and crickets and ringing. My eardrum would spasm at the sound of my mom doing dishes even if I was in my bedroom with my door closed. I wore earplugs all the time--the worse thing you can do for a noise sensitivity but at least it kept the pain at bay! Moreover, I couldn't read a book or think straight (which is not a good thing for a writer) and feared that my life would just get worse and worse. I fucked up my first year of college because I couldn't read, focus, or do homework. I literally wanted to die and start over in another life (that was before I became an atheist and realized this life is an unlikely gift). 

 

Eventually, I started slowly exposing myself to pink-noise through headphones as a way of rebuilding my tolerance to sound. I forced myself to start another band and write songs and play shows (with ample hearing protection of course). Every day after practice, my ears would ring so bad that I'd freak out, though objectively I knew the earplugs and firing-range headphones were actually preventing any damage. I also started seeing a therapist and learning a variety of coping mechanisms. This was the most difficult journey of my life, even worse than overcoming severe hypochondria,. It took about five years, but eventually I regained my tolerance to sound and can live a totally normal life without fearing I'm going to go permanently deaf. I also got to the point where I literally don't notice the ringing in my ears unless I consciously force myself to pay attention to it. It's still as loud as it was then, and I can even make it louder just by thinking about it, but I learned how to detach the anxiety from the sensation and it no longer bothers me. Haha, I'm in a quiet living room right now and it literally sounds like a plane is idling in here with me, and I feel totally fine about it. When I was 18, I would have been in tears over this and praying for death.

 

Maybe you could look at it another way. Maybe you got used to functioning at a higher cognitive level, and when you stopped taking nootropics after experiencing some worrisome symptoms, you noticed a totally normal return to your old self. You got distressed by the symptoms and fell into a negative-feedback loop of anxiety --> worsened symptoms --> more anxiety --> despair --> continued symptoms.

 

I can totally see how this might happen. I've tried several racetams (pira-, ani-, oxi-, phenylpira-, colu-, faso-, and now prami-) and have noticed a dramatic return to baseline cognition whenever I cycle off. It worries me, but then I remember how anxiety could just make it worse, so I try to be mindful and just accept my normal dumb self. I think the racetams are subtle but powerful enough to artificially increase your capacity for abstract thought in a state-dependent manner, so that when you come off them, the disjunction between your nootropic self and your actual self is kind of alarming. Throw anxiety and a hard-to-overcome fatalism into the mix, and you can convince yourself that you're untreatable.

 

There's a Sartre quote that I may be misremembering, but which has always helped me in desperate times. The gist of it is: He who accepts himself as he is now, as what he will always be, accepts himself on bad faith. 

 

I am in no way trying to invalidate your experience or suggesting that you "just get over it." I'm just sharing my experience and encouraging you not to give into despair. Hopefully it helps! 


Edited by Tram, 01 March 2015 - 08:43 PM.

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#30 Plasticperson

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 11:37 PM

My friend complained of chest pain for one to two weeks after a single pramiracetam capsule.. i experienced acute, slight chest pain after extended use. Prami was from smart powders. Doubt it was the retailer just the substance. All their other stuff was great. 


Edited by Plasticperson, 02 March 2015 - 11:39 PM.






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