8 replies to this topic

[Mr.Bananas]

I've been taking a multivitamin for over a year now. I have used the same bottle for the entire time except for this past June when they didn't have it in stock. So instead I bought another bottle and what I didn't realize was that it contained rhodiola rosea. To put that in context I take 300mg of modafinil in the morning and 50mg of agomelatine and 200mg of lamotrigine at night before bed. When I started using the new multivitamin with rhodiola I started getting massive tension headaches and jaw clenching. I didn't realize at first that it was due to the new multivitamin, instead I started counter medicating the side effects that I got. I had some pramipexole laying around so I started taking that, I took approximately 0.45mg per day and it helped. I also took 50k IU of vitamin D every day. This combination sent me into hyper drive, I managed to relieve the muscle tension around my neck and jaw area and I got stimulated like hell. I would get goose bumps from talking about subjects that were mildly interesting. For example if I and a colleague talked about how the current situation of the production at the manufacturing plant where I worked was going, I could get extreme feelings of wonder and excitement.

 

Anyhow, I finally realized that the new multivitamin was to blame so I bought my regular one again and things kind of went back to normal. I felt a bit tired afterwards but I regained most of my strengths and then went on vacation. Since then I've stopped working but I've had residual neck tension and I have a diffuse headache and weird tiredness that feels similar to having a cold. For other reasons than my jaw tension I went to the dentist and we decided to mold a jaw splint which has made wonders for my tension headaches, but I'm not cured. Now that I study again I need to exercise and I did exercise regularly until I got ill from a cold. Since I got that cold I've been ill for almost two months now. I've gone to my doctor and have had some blood tests done, we looked at the immune system, glucose, thyrotropin, thyroxine and general blood status. It all came back looking normal. That led me to look into my medication and I realized that there might be an interaction between agomelatine and modafinil because when a patient starts medicating with agomelatine it is recommended that the liver values are regularly monitored because agomelatine can be toxic to the liver. Since modafinil inhibits two and induces one of the enzymes that metabolizes agomelatine, I've ordered liver tests and I expect to get the results early this week.

 

I currently take 8-9 grams of fish oil per day, 2500 IU of vitamin D Monday through Saturday and 50K IU on Sundays. I take a multivitamin and multimineral every day and since I feel like crap I also take 600mg of ibuprofen and 500mg of acetaminophen which helps a lot. I've tried taking 30-90mg of CBD per day for a few weeks, but recently I noticed that I get more neck tension when I do, so I've stopped taking it now. I don't understand why it causes _more_ neck tension since it is used for epilepsy and spasticity but don't shoot the messenger, thats the way it is for me. I sporadically smoke weed to ameliorate the malaise, but other than that it doesn't help.

 

But what this all boils down to is that I feel like shit and I'm afraid that I might have fried something in my brain when I accidentally took rhodiola for about two weeks this summer. Let's suppose that that is the case, what can I do to unfry my brain? Or if that hypothesis is totally wacky, what do you recommend that I do?

[Introspecta]

It could be withdrawal from the dopamine agonist pramipexole. Not sure how long you were taking it. Rhodiola probably just potentiated everything

[Mr.Bananas]

It could be withdrawal from the dopamine agonist pramipexole. Not sure how long you were taking it. Rhodiola probably just potentiated everything

 

Two weeks in late June and early July.

 

EDIT: By the way, I also got a concussion in early June, I felt kind of weird afterwards but I rested for four days and went back to work. That could be the case I suppose, is there a way to confirm that?

Edited by Mr.Bananas, 01 December 2014 - 11:49 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

"I would get goose bumps from talking about subjects that were mildly interesting." In and of itself, this is extremely interesting (and no, I'm not suffering from the very same problem). What you perceive as overdramatization of the mundane might instead be evidence that you discovered a pharmacological means by which to lower the barrier to high-amplitude (and possibly high-frequency) gamma brain wave synchrony; in short, you might have stumbled upon a meditation switch which does not depend on hallucinogenic drugs or even meditative expertise (like figure 1b, only with much less latency). The only other case of this of which I'm aware occurred in an individual with temporal lobe epilepsy; if I recall, his doctors decided it would be unethical to operate on him in order to cure the seizures because they were so speculacularly enhancing his quality of life. (Maybe your "lucky"concussion had something to do with this, which would be unfortunate, as it would negate the foregoing hypothesis.)

 

No, I'm not saying that "How's the weather?" would put you into an instant state of meditation, but more that your reported physiological sensitivity suggests that you wouldn't have had much trouble entering a rich meditative state if you actually wanted to. I don't think there's any reason to presume that our sense of the mundane is appropriately calibrated with respect to ambient levels of consciousness; your state of "extreme wonder and excitement" may actually be preferable.

 

Are you (still) capable of any such transitions? (In particular, when you're isolated from distractions, how do you respond to this 80 Hz monotone still video on YouTube? WARNING: Might induce seizure in rare cases, due to positive gamma wave feedback.)

 

Yeah, you fried your brain, alright. Can you tell me how to fry mine in the same way?

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 02 December 2014 - 05:30 AM.

[Mr.Bananas]

"I would get goose bumps from talking about subjects that were mildly interesting." In and of itself, this is extremely interesting (and no, I'm not suffering from the very same problem). What you perceive as overdramatization of the mundane might instead be evidence that you discovered a pharmacological means by which to lower the barrier to high-amplitude (and possibly high-frequency) gamma brain wave synchrony; in short, you might have stumbled upon a meditation switch which does not depend on hallucinogenic drugs or even meditative expertise (like figure 1b, only with much less latency). The only other case of this of which I'm aware occurred in an individual with temporal lobe epilepsy; if I recall, his doctors decided it would be unethical to operate on him in order to cure the seizures because they were so speculacularly enhancing his quality of life. (Maybe your "lucky"concussion had something to do with this, which would be unfortunate, as it would negate the foregoing hypothesis.)

 

No, I'm not saying that "How's the weather?" would put you into an instant state of meditation, but more that your reported physiological sensitivity suggests that you wouldn't have had much trouble entering a rich meditative state if you actually wanted to. I don't think there's any reason to presume that our sense of the mundane is appropriately calibrated with respect to ambient levels of consciousness; your state of "extreme wonder and excitement" may actually be preferable.

 

Are you (still) capable of any such transitions? (In particular, when you're isolated from distractions, how do you respond to this 80 Hz monotone still video on YouTube? WARNING: Might induce seizure in rare cases, due to positive gamma wave feedback.)

 

Yeah, you fried your brain, alright. Can you tell me how to fry mine in the same way?

 

I have meditated before, I even went on a 10 day silent retreat once and I can't begin to explain how awful it was, haha. Although once when I was meditating I suddenly asked myself "who is it that is thinking these thoughts?" and I was filled with excitement because holy crap that was so psychedelic! But in an instant I came back to reality and tried frenetically to get back to that state of mind, needless to say I failed and went to bed. While in bed I had a sudden head jerk/twitch which has never happened before or since. It is a memory that I think will always be with me.

 

But how can you achieve this state? I wouldn't recommend it, you run the risk of seriously harming yourself, but if you are feeling particularly reckless I suggest you experiment with modafinil, agomelatine, lamotrigine, rhodiola, pramipexole and 50K IU of vitamin D... Expect to experience serious side effects and possibly cause permanent damage, I'd rather microdose with some lsd or shrooms, it's safer and basically the same experience.

 

I listened to that 80 Hz still video for about 50 minutes and I didn't feel any kind of shift in consciousness, it didn't bother me either so perhaps it had some effect. I dunno.

[jroseland]

I don't think you fried your brain... I think you just discovered a hardcore allergy you have... I would recommend a mindfulness practice, use something like lift app for consistency.

[resveratrol_guy]

 

I have meditated before, I even went on a 10 day silent retreat once and I can't begin to explain how awful it was, haha. Although once when I was meditating I suddenly asked myself "who is it that is thinking these thoughts?" and I was filled with excitement because holy crap that was so psychedelic! But in an instant I came back to reality and tried frenetically to get back to that state of mind, needless to say I failed and went to bed. While in bed I had a sudden head jerk/twitch which has never happened before or since. It is a memory that I think will always be with me.

 

But how can you achieve this state? I wouldn't recommend it, you run the risk of seriously harming yourself, but if you are feeling particularly reckless I suggest you experiment with modafinil, agomelatine, lamotrigine, rhodiola, pramipexole and 50K IU of vitamin D... Expect to experience serious side effects and possibly cause permanent damage, I'd rather microdose with some lsd or shrooms, it's safer and basically the same experience.

 

I listened to that 80 Hz still video for about 50 minutes and I didn't feel any kind of shift in consciousness, it didn't bother me either so perhaps it had some effect. I dunno.

 

 

First of all, I agree with jroseland that mindfulness practice is pretty much a guaranteed winning bet. OpaqueMind had a brilliant piece on this in which he asserted -- which I think is supported at this point by fMRI -- that meditation reintegrates isolated neural nets in a cohesive cognitive whole; it is in the absence of such integration that obsessive positive-feedback loops form, e.g. addiction, jealousy, etc., which manifest as hyperintensities on fMRI (not to be confused with hyperintensities on "regular" MRI, which have entirely different clinical significance). Mingyur Rinpoche happens to be my personal favorite empiricist in this vein.

 

But someone with your knowledge of nootropics no doubt knows this already; that was mainly for the noobs. So more to the point, thanks for sharing your supplement list. As usual, it may well be a small subset of them in particular ratios which resulted in the effect. Your warnings are reasonable, to be sure, but at least we have a record for those of us who wish to push the envelope of exogenous gamma brainwave modulation.

 

Thank you for persevering so hard with the 80 Hz (and it's unfortunate that the video starts with an ad that you can't shut down for 5 seconds). I was a bit surprised at your "neutral" response, as I have rather the opposite challenge. It helps me enter a trance (or whatever one should call such a meditative state neurophenomenon of this nature) within a matter of seconds. It's unmistakable, and just like it was when I first entered such a state many years ago. So for once I actually tried not to enter a trance, and instead just listen to the 80 Hz like it were some sort of boring phone dial tone. I found that with some effort, it was possible to do this. But -- and this is where maybe I figured out how anyone (hopefully) can selectively transition into trance -- when I enter a trance, I drive back against the signal mentally, with an imagination of an identical tone, so that it quickly becomes ambiguous as to whether most of the 80 Hz is due to my imagination, or due to the video soundtrack. (Obviously an oscilloscope driving an 8-ohm cheapo speaker would be highly useful here.) I wonder, if you try doing that, if it would work for you. We have what seems to be strong physiological evidence that you can enter trance with a low stimulation threshold and without binaural stimulation of this sort, let alone shrooms; I'm hoping you can find a way to do it once again, albeit at a muted level compared to your "brain frying" regimen. If you pull it off somehow, please explain how you did this. What I'm driving at here is that there are major unanswered questions about the "gamma burst" transition. To put it simply, does it "just happen" to any given expert meditator, at around 1 minute into preparation, or is it externally triggerable to some degree? Answering this question could help you repair your putative brain damage, to put it mildly.

 

This is all kinda OT on my part, so maybe "binaural nootropism" deserves its own thread. In any event, thanks again for sharing your remarkable experience and data set.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 04 December 2014 - 05:56 AM.

[Mr.Bananas]

I tried listening to the 80 Hz video again, and this time I intentionally meditated. I haven't meditated for years now, but I sat for 20 minutes which normally is pretty hard so I suppose it helps to calm the mind in some way. I only stopped because I got a crazy itch on my toe, haha. But meditation is probably a good idea, I need to learn how to relax and since meditation helps to relax just about everything in the mind and body it is a habit that I want to try to pick up again. Hopefully it can help get rid of the tension headache that I've been struggling with for months now.

 

I re-read you message right after I meditated, resveratrol_guy, and I noticed that my reading comprehension was immensely better, it's as if I didn't read half of what you wrote before I meditated. This is totally trippy, haha! I think this will be good for me if I manage to keep it up. Thanks for pushing me in this direction, at first I was sceptical but I am desperate and since meditation only costs time and is a good investment in the long run, why the hell not?

[resveratrol_guy]

I tried listening to the 80 Hz video again, and this time I intentionally meditated. I haven't meditated for years now, but I sat for 20 minutes which normally is pretty hard so I suppose it helps to calm the mind in some way. I only stopped because I got a crazy itch on my toe, haha. But meditation is probably a good idea, I need to learn how to relax and since meditation helps to relax just about everything in the mind and body it is a habit that I want to try to pick up again. Hopefully it can help get rid of the tension headache that I've been struggling with for months now.

 

I re-read you message right after I meditated, resveratrol_guy, and I noticed that my reading comprehension was immensely better, it's as if I didn't read half of what you wrote before I meditated. This is totally trippy, haha! I think this will be good for me if I manage to keep it up. Thanks for pushing me in this direction, at first I was sceptical but I am desperate and since meditation only costs time and is a good investment in the long run, why the hell not?

 

Glad to hear it! It turns out that we seem to have experienced something similar to what is being discussed in this thread. Looks like you're on the right track with this.