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Building a supplement regimen for mild dysthymia

dysthymia ocd marijuana flatness blue

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#1 dreighver

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 11:05 PM


Hi all, I posted here back in mid-February after suffering a severe depressive episode, something I'd never experienced before. 

 

After 2-3 days of severe depression, my symptoms began to lift, I could fill tingles along my back, an obvious sign of neurotransmitter production (I'd imagine). While the worst of the symptoms lifted, I was left experiencing a mild blue/under-the-weather mood in the wake of that episode. 

 

I should note that I was a regular marijuana user for some time (late May-2013 through October 1st of this year). I haven't used it since October 1st, quitting entirely cold turkey. It may also be worth noting that a one-time use of 20mg of Vyvanse was what triggered my dysthymia. I have no familial history of depression, just mild OCD/over-worrying, but the symptoms have always been incredibly mild (never required medication) and had never impaired my functioning whatsoever. I still find the mild OCD is lingering to this day.

 

The dysthymia has been weighing on me recently. It's not horrible, quite bearable, really. I just find myself feeling "flat", unable to experience pleasure, and sometimes feeling perceivably "blue" and a touch sad, although I'd say the flatness is more noticeable than any kind of blue mood. 

 

Upon stopping smoking weed, I decided to clean up my supplement routine. All I've been taking is the following: 

 

4000mg fish oil -- 2000mg EPA, 300mg DHA (Country Life Omega 3 Mood, 4x per day)

2x 500mg vitamin C

1x multivitamin -- http://www.newchapte...upplement-facts

3x 300mg Perika St. John's Wort

 

About 4-5 days after stopping using weed, my mood improved hugely. There was no depression, no flatness. I entirely felt like myself! I figured I had found my cure -- just stop smoking weed. However, after a week of a having a normal mood, the dysthymia began to creep back in. 

 

Recently my flat, low mood is wearing me down. On top of that, I've been having some sleeping issues. During the first month after stopping smoking, my sleep was fine. I was resting well, had no problems falling asleep and no issues staying asleep. During early November, though, I started waking up early in the morning, not feeling sad or blue, just feeling "on edge" and slightly wired. Normally after 10-15 minutes of deep breathing I'd doze back off, but it was unsettling nonetheless. 

 

With all this in mind, I want to ramp up my supplement routine again and wanted to turn here for some advice. I'm thinking of going with the following, a fairly large (but hopefully helpful stack). Let me know what you all think. Would this be beneficial? And what specifically may help me given my background?

 

For whatever it's worth, here's my methylation profile that I recently had done:

 

99003369-73c7-4183-b116-727f1318772c_zps

 

Thank you all so much in advance. 

 

Country Life Omega 3 Mood (2x per day) 

34mg B6 (as p5p) 1x

300mg Perika St. John's Wort 3x

300mg magnesium 1x 

1000mg inositol 1x

Nature Made Multi For Him 1x (http://www.naturemad...s/multi-for-him)

500mg Vitamin C 2x

2000mg vitamin D 1x

Sunny Mood 3x (http://www.vitaminsh...69#.VJNcxmTF8pA)

Busy-Brain Release 1x (possibly 2x????) (http://www.rainbowli...-mini-tabs.aspx)

200mg or 400mg SAM-E 1x (Nature's Made)

 

The only other things I'd consider would be 5htp or tryptophan prior to bedtime, and/or choline. Not entirely sure if those would be needed, though. Perhaps ashwagandha and/or ginkgo biloba? Any other supplements that may be helpful given my methylation profile and history of OCD, and prior marijuana usage would be very helpful. I'm all ears! Fairly soon I do plan on seeing a Naturopath who specializes in methylation, however that appointment is over a month out, so I wanted to get some basic support in the meantime. 

 

Thank you all again! 

 

 


Edited by dreighver, 18 December 2014 - 11:33 PM.


#2 blood

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 07:04 AM

This contains way too much copper (2 mg/ serve):

 

 


Nature Made Multi For Him 1x

 

Supplemental copper from multivitamins has been linked (in observational/epidemiological studies) to accelerated cognitive decline. Simply put, people who take multivitamins containing copper go downhill, faster. (The slide into dementia happens even more quickly for those on a high fat diet who also consume excessive copper). A stack for dysthymia is a great idea, but you want to be careful in your choices, so you don't do yourself harm. If you are determined to take a multivitamin, I'd suggest sticking with the one you're already on (the New Chapter product).

 

For magnesium, I'd suggest a magnesium citrate product. There is some evidence (not a lot, admittedly) that the citrate form is more bioavailable than magnesium oxide or magnesium amino acid chelates (e.g., magnesium glycinate). Example product.

 

 


Edited by blood, 19 December 2014 - 07:16 AM.


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#3 dreighver

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 06:30 PM

Thanks for the feedback. My primary reason for going with the above multi was due to the extra zinc, but I'll switch back to the New Chapter multi and supplement zinc separately.

I took some of the Sunny Mood last night (one capsule) and found my mood improved. Not sure if it was due to the rhodiola (roughly 113.5mg in each capsule), or mere coincidence.

That said, I took two more this morning, along with another source of rhodiola and some ashgwanda for roughly 60 mg of ashgwanda and 320mg of rhodiola. I started to feel anxious and wired, followed by a minor crash and some depression, similar to that after having taken the Vyvanse -- it was short-lived and less severe, though. It seems dopamine antagonists don't like me, at least not at high dosages.

FWIW, I do seem to have an elevated mood for some time after these crashes following dopamine antagonist usage. I was on cloud-9 after recovering from the Vyvanse-induced depression, but I found I gradually settled into a dysthymic mood. I feel a slight buzz right now, too, after having recovered from that jittery, "on edge" feeling, followed by a brief depression.

Considering dropping the rhodiola altogether, or going with a lower dosage.

I did go with 500mg of choline and inositol, as opposed to the 1g of straight inositol.

Also thinking about dropping the SAM-e, since my MTHFR gene seems perfectly fine.

I slept rather well last night after having taken 1x busy brain release, 300mg magnesium, a country life fish oil, 500mg vitamin C, and 300mg SJW. The small amount of rhodiola I took in the afternoon (via the Sunny Mood 1x) didn't cause any issues sleeping.

Thanks again, Blood. Any other feedback is much appreciated.

Edited by dreighver, 19 December 2014 - 06:32 PM.


#4 Astroid

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 07:23 PM

I'd suggest making Magnesium Bicarbonate Water.. drink 1/3 bottle per day without food.. Soak in Epsom Salt bath for 35-40 minutes.. it helps calm you.. helps sleep and relaxes you. 

 

Methyl B12 under the tongue may be useful.. I take 5,000 units.

 

Folate.. is essential.. 

 

And maybe try Lithium Orotate  2-6 pills a day.. I started on 2 a day 3 days ago.. but have noticed nothing yet.. good reviews here however.

 

Finally, Dilantin is reported to help depressions.  Search Dilantin + Dreyfus and read his experience with it and depressions.  He raised $80 Million over 35 years promoting the benefits of Dilantin and did not make 2 Cent off the product ! It can be ordered from overseas pharmacy without a script.. 100-300 mg / day normal dosage.    



#5 dreighver

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 01:50 AM

So I yanked the SAM-e, since my MTHFR gene is fine. Really not solving an underlying issue.

Didn't sleep well last night, woke up at 6 AM feeling a bit restless, although I did doze back off after 15'ish minutes. My mood has been better today, may be starting to feel the synergistic effects of the SJW and Rhodiola, along with my other supplements.

I'll give it another night, but if I don't sleep well I'd like to add in some tryptophan or 5HTP. I have 50mg 5HTP lozenges with 1mg of p5p added (made by Carlson) and 500mg Source Naturals tryptophan. Which one would you guys recommend trying first? I plan on taking it first thing in the morning and immediately before going to bed.

 

EDIT -- I'm definitely getting a unique set of sensations. I feel a slight pressure around my head, but it's not painful whatsoever. I feel very much in the moment, and a focus, calm, and "heaviness" has come over me. I'd imagine it's either the rhodiola independently, or synergistic effects between the rhodiola and SJW. 

 

I have been taking the SJW for 23 days and hadn't felt much of anything. I wonder if the Rhodiola is working with it a bit.

 

Definitely will hold off on the tryptophan/5HTP for a couple days and see how my current stack works for me. Don't want to overload the neurotransmitters too much, but I figure I'm at a relatively safe point with the low-dose Rhodiola (340mg per day) and SJW (900mg per day). I really don't plan on starting the tryptophan or 5HTP unless I'm still having difficulty sleeping after awhile. Just wanted to get input as to what would be preferable, at least initially. 


Edited by dreighver, 21 December 2014 - 02:07 AM.


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#6 blood

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 04:43 PM

I'd be interested to hear how you selected your initial list of supplements for your dysthymia.

Have you thought about dietary & lifestyle factors? E.g., avoiding trans fats, eating more fruit, moving to a Mediterranean-ish diet (olive oil, fish, nuts), etc? They kinds of things could, conceivably, confer some degree of resistance against another serious depressive episode.
 

I have 50mg 5HTP lozenges with 1mg of p5p added (made by Carlson) and 500mg Source Naturals tryptophan. Which one would you guys recommend trying first?


It might not matter (which you try first). You could pick one, try it, & see what happens.

Melatonin could be another thing to try for sleep issues if the tryptophan/ 5htp don't work.

Edited by blood, 21 December 2014 - 05:01 PM.






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