9 replies to this topic

[sonshoku]

I read that low dopamine can cause social anxiety. But isn't that mostly if one has Low dopamine AND low serotonin? What if the person has high serotonin combined with low dopamine? Then maybe its just low drive, apathetic etc but not socially anxious because of the high serotonin right? 

 

And if have to choose one neurotransmitter thats gonna be high and the other low. Which is best for mood, and decreasement of social anxiety? is it high DA + low serotonin or High serotonin + low DA ?

 

Edited by sonshoku, 01 January 2015 - 10:24 AM.

[Area-1255]

if you have high serotonin, and low dopamine, you will likely have a wicked, persistent, lack of emotions but at the same time you will be anxious and / or depressed..you wouldn't be able to derive pleasure from any activity.

 

High serotonin also can cause other issues, such as heart inflammation, bowel issues; e.g diarrhea and irritable bowel, high or low blood pressure , cholesterol issues, it can cause sexual dysfunction, that can be untreatable unless the level is fixed and over a period of time...

Serotonin is not something to play around with, unless you know for a fact you are deficient or excess.  

 

Excess is a lot harder to treat, depending on the reason for it.

Edited by Area-1255, 01 January 2015 - 12:31 PM.

[factsmachine]

Selegine would be the best to try to increase DA, correct?
Also buspirone is a pretty harmless med I've found with a side effect that makes you feel uncomfortable if you take too much. But it does work for anxiety, especially if it's serotonim related.
I mostly go for pleasures like drugs, fast driving, risk taking. How could one gauge serotonin?

[Area-1255]

Selegine would be the best to try to increase DA, correct?
Also buspirone is a pretty harmless med I've found with a side effect that makes you feel uncomfortable if you take too much. But it does work for anxiety, especially if it's serotonim related.
I mostly go for pleasures like drugs, fast driving, risk taking. How could one gauge serotonin?

You can do a 24hour urine test, for the serotonin metabolite; 5-HT1AA ; get your GP/Doc to order it.

I routinely get this and the metanephrine/normetanephrine test done; just to be sure I'm at where I want to be - every 3 months.

 

Serotonin is an extremely over rated chemical, and though it has anti-depressant properties, the irony, is the receptors that produce this effect also tend to be the same receptors that are heterodimerized with autoreceptors or neurokinin, e.g 5-HT1A, say yet, buspar producing anxiolytic and even some anti-depressant effects.

 

Interestingly, the serotonin synthesis inhibitor ; p-chlorophenylylanine - doesn't induce depression in all of the studies..so there must clearly be more involved than just serotonin..and again, comes back to the individual in question.

 

I also believe social status is an overlooked factor in depression , especially for men...

If you have no ambition or place then this creates a psychological loop that leads to depression.

 

Same thing with testosterone levels. They are generally higher in people who CHOOSE to self-motivate themselves into success, they drive themselves into reward and success and then this burst of dopamine further stimulates testosterone...which is why the people that rarely ever run into hormone imbalance issues generally.

 

1.) Are successful in some way shape or form, or at least have some notoriety.

 

2.) Keep in shape and lean. (body fat increases estrogen) this also correlates to motivation as people concerned about mental health and cognitive function also usually work out to create synergism.

 

 

Neuropsychopharmacology. 1999 Aug;21(2 Suppl):24S-27S.

Sleep and serotonin: an unfinished story.

Jouvet M1.

Author information

 

Abstract

Serotonin (5-HT) was first believed to be a true neuromodulator of sleep because the destruction of 5-HT neurons of the raphe system or the inhibition of 5-HT synthesis with p-chlorophenylalanine induced a severe insomnia which could be reversed by restoring 5-HT synthesis. However the demonstration that the electrical activity of 5-HT perikarya and the release of 5-HT are increased during waking and decreased during sleep was in direct contradiction to this hypothesis. More recent experiments suggest that the release of 5-HT during waking may initiate a cascade of genomic events in some hypnogenic neurons located in the preoptic area. Thus, when 5-HT is released during waking, it leads to an homeostatic regulation of slow-wave sleep.

PMID:   10432485   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 

 

Edited by Area-1255, 01 January 2015 - 04:01 PM.

[factsmachine]

Once again, an informative post my friend.

How about dopamine, how can I determine that? My problems are not able to sleep, then sleep for up to 24 hours at a time (48 hours once) and depression, low motivation. But the drugs I have done give too many factors to play into this equation.

[sonshoku]

I found this thread about serotonin on the bodybuilding forum: http://forum.bodybui...d.php?t=4284053

 

 

 

Healthy test + healthy serotonin = a good chance to do well alpha wise. Alot of people think they have low test when often the problem is actually serotonin. Test is controlled more by your body where as serotonin can be heavily effected by ones demeanor. If you get down on yourself you can go in a down spiraling cycle with serotonin going down and down.

 

Is this a true statement?

[Area-1255]

Once again, an informative post my friend.

How about dopamine, how can I determine that? My problems are not able to sleep, then sleep for up to 24 hours at a time (48 hours once) and depression, low motivation. But the drugs I have done give too many factors to play into this equation.

DOPAC & HVA;homovanillic acid (also urine tests) can be used to determine dopamine....though it should be noted, it's not a precise science, just an indicator to go along with symptoms. 

 

Low dopamine can cause trouble sleeping as well, in fact more frequently than high dopamine....

Think ADHD, these kids/adults take stimulants to mellow them out, and can get to sleep fine on most stimulants....it's a pure example of how distorted the general population and their mind frame is about all of this ...

 

Neurology is complex,, but sleep is dependent on all GABA-ergic pathways, and also has to do with histamine...and with methylation rates....if you too little histamine, you won't sleep..too much, same deal. 

 

So a histamine blood test and a copper hair test should be warranted with people who have diagnosed or prevalent and distinct insomnia.

Copper degrades histamine and AT THE SAME TIME, stimulates the nervous system, adrenaline mainly..causing insomnia..and a very restless & uncomfortable kind. HIGH COPPER usually = jumpiness and paranoia as well. Sometimes contributes to shallow emotions.

Edited by Area-1255, 01 January 2015 - 04:07 PM.

[Area-1255]

I found this thread about serotonin on the bodybuilding forum: http://forum.bodybui...d.php?t=4284053

 

 

 

Healthy test + healthy serotonin = a good chance to do well alpha wise. Alot of people think they have low test when often the problem is actually serotonin. Test is controlled more by your body where as serotonin can be heavily effected by ones demeanor. If you get down on yourself you can go in a down spiraling cycle with serotonin going down and down.

 

Is this a true statement?

Well to an extent, but testosterone is responsible for maintaining and modulating serotonin 5-HT1A receptors, especially in response to stress....and it also is needed for noradrenergic anti-depressants to work properly.

 

http://www.pubfacts....otonergic-drugs.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9767398

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9767398

Eur J Neurosci. 1998 Aug;10(8):2685-93.

5HT1A-receptors and behaviour under chronic stress: selective counteraction by testosterone.

Flügge G1, Kramer M, Rensing S, Fuchs E.

Author information

 

Abstract

Behaviour of chronically stressed male tree shrews is characterized by a reduction in scent marking, self-grooming and overall locomotor activity. It has been proposed that this subordination behaviour is related to the down-regulation of 5HT1A-receptors occurring in distinct brain regions of the animals. The high cortisol concentrations which accompany chronic stress are supposed to induce 5HT1A-receptor down-regulation. Because chronic stress in males also decreases androgen levels we investigated whether behaviour and 5HT1A-receptor expression could be renormalized by testosterone replacement. Male tree shrews were submitted to subordination stress for 28 days, while during the last 18 days, one group was treated with testosterone and one with vehicle. Scent marking, self-grooming, and overall locomotor activity were monitored, and cortisol levels were measured in morning urine during the whole experiment. Brain 5HT1A-receptors were quantified by in vitro receptor autoradiography. Although in subordinate animals cortisol levels remained high during the testosterone treatment, 5HT1A-receptors in the hippocampal formation and the occipital cortex were renormalized to control levels by the androgen, but 5HT1A-receptors in the ventromedial thalamic nucleus did not return to base line levels. Scent marking and self-grooming behaviour were both renormalized by testosterone, but overall locomotor activity did not return to base line levels. These data indicate that a balance between glucocorticoids and androgens is necessary to maintain 'normal' numbers of the monoamine receptors. The fact that both, 5HT1A-receptors and certain behaviours can be renormalized by the sex steroid supports the view that 5HT1A-receptor are involved in the regulation of stress behaviour. However, the fact that overall locomotor activity was not returned to baseline indicates that different types of behaviour are distinctly regulated.

PMID:   9767398   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.researchg...d_11CWAY-100635

[Area-1255]

You don't want to elevate serotonin if it's not deficient, as serotonin has diverse neuro-endocrine effects and can blunt sex hormones as well as many other important hormones and peptides.

 

Serotonin tends to have an effect on viral activity, and high levels of serotonin can pre-dispose you to infections of some HPV strains and JC Virus in both men and women and cause abnormal proliferation of these viruses.

 

So again, emphasis on never raise if it's not deficient.

 

 

 

Inhibitory effect of serotonin antagonists on JC virus propagation in a carrier culture of human neuroblastoma cells.

 

Abstract

Human polyomavirus, JCV, causes fatal demyelinating disease, progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy (PML). It has been shown that 5HT(2A)R acts as a cellular receptor for JCV on human glial cells. In the current study, we examined the inhibitory effects of 5HT(2A)R antagonists, ketanserin and ritanserin, both on JCV infection and on propagation by using human neuroblastoma cells IMR-32 and JCI, which continuously produce JCV. Transcriptional analysis revealed that 5HT(2A)R was constitutively expressed in JCI cells. Treatments with 5HT(2A)R antagonists led to a significant reduction in the titers of progeny viruses and the population of infected JCI cells. In addition, the amount of JCV genomic DNA was decreased in JCI cells in the presence of 5HT(2A)R antagonists. These results indicate that 5HT(2A)R antagonists have an inhibitory effect on JCV infection and reproduction, and JCI cells are applicable to an experimental model for pharmacological evaluation of antiviral agents against JCV.

 

 

https://www.facebook...556896474387160

 

 

Edited by Area-1255, 01 January 2015 - 04:29 PM.

[sonshoku]

I purchased a bottle of solgar 5htp already before. So if im not using it, does it have long durability? I mean, lets say if i use the 5htp pills after a couple of months or a lot later this year, will the pills still be effective or do they become old soon? 

 

I dont afford to test serotonin levels, how can i find out if deficient? For example, if someone humiliates me and that creates a strong emotional response, does that mean low serotonin? Isn't  narcissism a symptom of low serotonin and/or low beta-endorphins?

Edited by sonshoku, 01 January 2015 - 05:06 PM.