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My intrusive thoughts and mood swings

pure o ocd mood swings 5htp niacin gaba serotonin accutane

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#1 Mydriasis

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 09:38 PM


Hi there! Thanks for opening this post. I need your help– any suggestion, comment or personal experience is greatly appreciated. Notice that this is my first time telling anybody about this.

 

I am 18 years old and this is my story with intrusive thoughts or, more medically, purely obsessional compulsive disorder (aka Pure O).  To be honest, it's just one intrusive thoughts– sexual thoughts with my mother. I recognise and strongly believe it has nothing to do with my personal history (I wasn't molested or anything) nor my sexual preferences (I'm straight and I am not into incest). I have been dealing with this issue for 6-7 months. I was taking Accutane– aka Isotretinoin– for my acne (I read it affects serotonin levels quite strongly because of cell regeneration). It all began one morning, when the thought just wouldn't go away– I realised something wasn't right. At first, however, I thought it was a side-effect of the drug I was taking, but when I stopped (last November), it would still not go away.

 

I want to point out I had stopped smoking marijuana for 7-8 days when this started. So I searched online, and I found I wasn't the only one. So I tried to stop for 50 days (I literally cold turkey'd) and noticed not much of a change. When I'm high (with really good weed, Amsterdam level), I tend to get distracted very easily, and I get the thought once every 1-2 hours.

 

I tried other drugs, too. I tried: ecstasy 3 times in 2 years (twice in the same week, 2 months before my thoughts starting); LSD once (I didn't like it that much); very, very small doses of shrooms twice; truffles once (10g, in Amsterdam, with Pure O– it was OK). That's it. I am not much of a drinker, but I do smoke weed quite frequently. It does not affect my life that much, though. I still get my stuff done and I have very high grades (even this year, with Pure O).

 

I noticed that throughout the day I tend to shift between two phases: (1) where I become very happy and cheerful about every aspect of life, even with my intrusive thoughts; and (2) where I start stressing a bit (never to the point of crying or breaking down, but it still kinda hurts) and about how much I am doing to keep it "under control." I have 4-8 cycles a day. I can really notice the change.

 

I have never told anybody about this– until now. I keep a normal attitude everyday– I don't repress it, I'm learning to accept it. Even in the worst moments, I have never thought of suicide or committing suicide. I don't have problems sleeping. I still go to high-school (last year) and I keep a positive attitude about things– I am about to go to university in the UK to study medicine and I am very happy about it. I do sports 3 times a week and I still hang out with my friends weekly.

 

I have tried many supplements, including:

  • 5-HTP (100-200 mg/day): didn't do much, kinda helped me to sleep.
  • Niacin or vitamin B-6 (up to 2-3g/day): helped me to slightly overcome anxiety, but the flushing was intense and I read too much can be bad.
  • Vitamin B-3 (300 mg/day): didn't notice much of an effect, but I tend to get more lucid dreams.
  • GABA (1250 mg/day): it relaxes me, but doesn't really help that much.
  • Myo-inositol (up to 10 g/day): I noticed some changes, but it wasn't long-lasting.
  • L-Theanine (up to 500 mg/day): helps me on the spot, and it kind of gets rid of stress and anxiety.
  • Magnesium (500 mg/day): has no psychological effect whatsoever, but it's good for the nervous system.
  • White Chestnut, a herbal remedy (up to 15 drops/day): I didn't really notice much of a change.

Quick brain and family health history:

  • My mother has early-stage MS, and has had panic attacks (she takes Paroxetine)– it's due to bad genetics :(
  • My father has hypertension;
  • My older brother has had problems with anxiety, but he's fine now;
  • I learnt to read, write and count when I was 3. I have always had very high grades (I speak 3 languages, one of which is self-taught English) and I was always kind of hyperactive as a kid (I still am at times, lol).
  • I have had a panic / delusional episode that lasted for 30 seconds while I was really, really high on some shitty hashish– that was 3 years ago;
  • I once had protected sex with a prostitute two years ago (I was very drunk, please don't judge me, lol) and I was obsessively fearful that somehow I had been infected with HIV– I had a few shitty months, but once I tested negative (3 months for window period) the obsession/fear eventually faded away.
  • I am not generally an anxious person, but I do tend to over-react at times and I am quite irascible.

I tried to tell my doctor, but all she did is prescribe some Delorazepam (a quite mild benzodiazepine). At first, in fact, I thought it would help, because I thought it was an anxiety problem. I took very few drops (1-4 mg) sporadically this summer, but the effect wouldn't last or it wasn't enough, so I decided never to use it again. Since then, I didn't decide to contact my doctor– I may do that sooner or later, but I am kind of afraid that she will misdiagnose me once again or send me to a therapist– I really don't want to take anti-depressants or anti-anxiety medication. I prefer to cope with the problem, rather than just cover it up. It's hard to resist to the temptation, but I have seen my mother go through some hard times trying to get off the Paroxetine– she cannot yet stop.

 

Recently, however, I have ordered Modafinil on the deep web, because I have read somewhere in this forum that a mild stimulant and a very small LSD/Psilocybin dose can help fix Pure O. Might be bullshit, but I kinda want to try Modafinil– I think Pure O is a matter of distraction, because that's when the intrusive thought... intrudes: when you're distracted. I don't know if it's something to do with serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, respective receptors, neural misfiring... I have read so much about OCD, and everyone seems to have a different opinion.

 

If you actually read all this, I literally love you. You are the first person in my life to every hear this story, so you're quite important for me now! If you also have any problem, I would love to reciprocally help you, as well.

 

Again, any kind of feedback is appreciated.


Edited by Mydriasis, 08 January 2015 - 09:40 PM.


#2 Mydriasis

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 03:59 PM

I forgot to add that I would also like to try NAC (N-acetylcysteine), which seems to be useful in people with OCD, but I am not sure if that would really help.

Excuse the double post, but I cannot edit the original one.



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#3 RJ100

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 05:43 PM

I would suggest NAC to start with. It's cheap and harmless.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....91/?tool=pubmed

 

http://link.springer...5-0246-6#page-1

 

http://www.sciencedi...545534305000076


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#4 Mydriasis

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 06:20 PM

 

Thanks for your answer. What dose you suggest I should take?



#5 Flex

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 12:31 AM

I would use 300-600mg for the first time, but after that You could use more.

They used in studies for various addicitons even doses of 2,400mg/day, but better read the side-effects in the package insert.

 

N-acetylcysteine in psychiatry: current therapeutic evidence and potential mechanisms of action

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3044191/

Its really easy to obtain. Just walk into a pharmacy and ask for the Over the counter cough expectorant Acetylcisteine like: FLUIMUCIL

 

Its good that You´ve avoided longterm benzodiazepines, because they can do longterm damage.

I had allways the "luck" to deal with incompetent Psychiatrist, actually Doctors in general, so a healthy mistrust is not bad.

The downside is that I´m doing recherche for allready 2 years for my depression and my progress in this is slow, but steady though.

The truth is that, for me there arent many options so I have to do it on my own.

 

I have developed something relative similair from my cannabis abuse in the adolescence and its hard to erradicate (I´m 29);

Its hard to explain, I get a kind of hyper-focus-look in my eyes and cant control it. My mimic becomes absent, males think I´m gay and females think something bad either.

I do notice it and that they notice my look+mimik and start behaving different and thinking whatsoever.. Its quiet stigmatising and rumors get started behind my back.

This can exacerbate, especially when smoked weed, that I´m start to look at the lower part of the body in males and females..

and when I´m tired, but it appears sometimes when I´m not.

 

The easiest way to prevent this, is by taking reversible dopamine D2 antagonists like Clomipramine, opipramol and quetiapine

(which is an antipsychotic but a veery weak one. Be carefull in regards of its possible blood-thickening properties -> stroke risk) .

The downside is the dulling effects, means cognition, sexuall desire and affect goes down.

I´ve taken also an strong antipsychotic( risperidone), but the effects lasted, mainly for 1 year, and 2 years in total(!), so better avoid it if You dont have to use it,

because You could turn cognitively & etc. to a pensioneer over night.

This meaned for me to break up school and beeing even not able to go to work for ~2 years

 

One further thing was adrenergic alpha2 agonism, which would mean that the a2 antagonism by Cannabis is partly responsible for that effect.

On the other hand, I´m taking regulary 45mg Mirtazpine for my chronic insomnia (triggered by cannabis) and the "impairment" is only getting stronger after cessation

 

On the other hand I´ve noticed that by using chinese herbs, I´ve recently got better, but I can only post a list of what I´ve used in the last 2 weeks, because I´m curently trying to cure my atypical depression and using several ones. So I dont know what its was, untill I try it again in the next days/weeks

 

My (sigh..current) theory is that the cause is not a mal-functioned Striatum, but rather respectively a mal-connected one or an, under-repressed limbic system (by the mesocortical pathway)

Quentiapine brought me actually to that idea, because it had some enduringly effects even after cessation ( arround 1 month) this could be perhaps due its metabolite which inhibits selective NET in the PFC and, by my intepretation," trains" the PFC (!?).

+ I dont feel cognitively impaired, due any enduring D2 antagonism

On the other hand, Some brain improving substances like bacopa monnieri havent affected it that much.

 

I will try to update, if found out something interresting.

You could also try Your luck in reddit, like

http://www.reddit.com/r/Psychiatry/

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskDocs/

 

I cant say whether a real one will respond, but there are real ones.


Edited by Flex, 10 January 2015 - 12:42 AM.

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#6 molecular joy

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 09:18 AM

OK, thanks for sharing. 

 

Quick question: Do you have some actual girls in your life? Some decently attractive females to focus on, and who are also interested in you? 

 

If not, if you're living in a romance wasteland, then IMO that right there is the problem, and it's not one that they ever made (or should ever make) pills for, because it's not a diet problem, it's a who-you-hang-out-with kinda problem, or a who-you're-having-sex-with problem.

 

So if you will, expand a bit about the ladies and romance, or at least the fwb's in your life.



#7 Mydriasis

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 12:03 PM

OK, thanks for sharing. 

 

Quick question: Do you have some actual girls in your life? Some decently attractive females to focus on, and who are also interested in you? 

 

If not, if you're living in a romance wasteland, then IMO that right there is the problem, and it's not one that they ever made (or should ever make) pills for, because it's not a diet problem, it's a who-you-hang-out-with kinda problem, or a who-you're-having-sex-with problem.

 

So if you will, expand a bit about the ladies and romance, or at least the fwb's in your life.

 

Hey there, thanks for your response! Unfortunately, no, I have been single for almost 2 years now. I am not used to it: before being single, I have been with two girls 1 year respectively, and I used to have good sex very, very frequently (like, almost every day) and the girls were really attractive (one of em was a cheerleader). But then I moved back to my home country, where girls are just snobby bitches and I can't really get the attractive ones... So I decided to enter a period of "dormancy" until I can find a fine girl.

 

I also remember that the day before my obsession started, I was trying to ask a girl out and she ended up choosing another guy (my best friend) to kiss– but that's because they had been together before. I got mad, but it passed quickly because she was quite ugly to be honest. I was looking for some quick night stand (lol).

 

So this may have triggered something in my brain, because the next morning, I woke up with the thought. That actually might be the problem, now that I think about it. After 2 years of constant sex, to 2 years of repression...

 

Do you think that could be the source?

Again, thanks for partaking in the discussion! :)

This is getting interesting.

 

EDIT: I want to point out that in these 2 years I have actually been seeing some girls, but sporadically and no more than 1/2 weeks– never had sex, however– just received a handy once (lol).


Edited by Mydriasis, 11 January 2015 - 12:04 PM.


#8 molecular joy

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 01:16 PM

Absolutely, 100% it has everything to do with it. Think about it. We're primates. Young male primates. I know we're somewhat busy building a society, buildings, architecture, whatever, but what's the MAIN goal in life when you're a fresh young lad? Besides food water shelter, what REALLY puts the pressure and annoyance on you, if you're not getting it? 

 

Girls. Sex. Skin. Boobies. Yum yum yum  :-D

 

Things like wars, sports fans beating each other's heads in, a bunch of human violence stems IMO from males feeling inadequate, getting in that idiotic monkey mode of having something to prove, by beating their chest, or on the contrary, falling in despair because that one girl didn't work out. This while they;re in a city with half a million other girls literally EVERYWHERE.

 

Now, good news, this will require no pills, no therapy, no psych wards and straitjackets. 

Bad news, it will require some PUA skills, the theory for which is super easy to get in places like youtube, RSD Tyler, RSD Julien (as channel names) or look for Mystery Method. THat's some basic stuff. 

 

For a more strategic, lifelong approach, I highly recommend the material of Dr. Paul Dobransky. He looks into rites of passage, the growth from boy to man, and has a fantastic and clear approach to explaining it, this is stuff that many people in the West never get right, hence you see all the misery and divorces. Failing to put some work early on, thinking marriage will solve everything, and then of course things come to the surface one way or another. 

 

Don't worry about weird sex thoughts, simply get your hands on some nice girl, get some nice hobbies to share, learn to give a good massage, that goes a long long way, and generally learn to express yourself with your hands. Things like making something by hand, drawing, modeling clay, sculpting, anything that goes beyond what your average nerd will do (ask for phone number and ask like a shmuck, hey you want to go out sometime). 

 

Learn to be bold and stand out, look inwards for answers as opposed to seeking approval from outside, from others, and you should find women respond naturally to that, you won't have yo do anything in particular to get noticed. 

 

As for failing with girls, absolutely get used to it. Even if you're at the very top of your game, there will still be girls who blow you off, or are intimidated or taken or in love with some other guy, that's perfectly normal. Only thing to do is say NEXT and move on to greener pastures. 

 

Is there anything else you'd like to ask or bring up, or is this sufficient to get you going on your way with enough confidence that you'll do well?



#9 Flex

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Posted 07 February 2015 - 01:16 PM

I´ve read somewhere that an underactive caudate increases sexual thoughts / arrousal,

but could only find this one

Electrical stimulation of dorsal and ventral striatum differentially alters the copulatory behavior of male rats.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20939668

 

I believe that Cannabis has decreased my glutamergic signaling in the caudate and thus causing it.

Because even Ethylphenidate hasnt such aphrodisiac effects as Cannabis for me.

 

 

 


Edited by Flex, 07 February 2015 - 01:21 PM.


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#10 Professorben11

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Posted 07 February 2015 - 02:43 PM

That's a totally normal thought to have pass through your brain OP.  It doesn't reflect on you or anything you've done, it's just one of those random thoughts that pop up from time to time.  What's making it a problem for you is reacting negatively to it every single time it comes up, which is a natural reaction if you have an anxiety disorder like OCD.  When it comes up simply be aware that it is currently present in your mind, and let it pass.

 

If you want to take something to help I would recommend NAC for starters.  It helped me dissociate myself from my anxious thoughts.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: pure o, ocd, mood swings, 5htp, niacin, gaba, serotonin, accutane

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