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My 2 year nootropic/supplement journey to help with unknown maladies.

phenibut sunifiram tianeptine selegiline meditation phenipiracetam modafinil adrafinil unifiram

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#1 Isabeau

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 01:25 AM


Hello ! I have been perusing the forum for a long while and thought it was finally time to share my nootropic/supplement adventure :)

 

So that you may forgive the long post and to spare those less interested in the anecdotal side of things (as laconic I am not) I have divided things into clear categories so you can easily skip where you want. And as you'll see the list is pretty exhaustive, but I've formatted things to make it easy to scroll through and find subjects you may be interested in.

 

In the end, I felt it was better to be thorough and helpful than avoid being chastised for being verbomotor!


[ ABOUT ME ]

 

My name is Isabeau, I live in Montreal and I have a small graphic design company, although now I mostly just do solo work when I can.

 

I guess it could be said that I was pretty lucky at the genetic lottery. I've always been a very happy person, and in my vocabulary the word anxiety seems to have been substituted for challenge as succeeding at things was easy: I had a lot of mental and physical energy, a lot of ideas and the motivation to see them through. I was also that annoying person that is seldom sick and never seem to age.

 

Of course as with any story, there had to be a triggering factor that lead me to here and in my case it was something completely banal: two years ago I stopped taking birth control. Out of nowhere I started being depressed with suicidal ideation. Later came crippling anxiety (I couldn't go outside without downing shots of vodka) and brain fog so thick that I couldn't even play video games (even those I knew by heart). Add to that constant fatigue and (for good measure) overwhelming pain, sort of a body headache that would bring tears to my eyes when I would dress up in the morning and wake me when I'd turn in bed at night. Just going to the bank was problematic and where fear wasn't really part of my reality before, it became intrinsic to my daily life.

 

For the sake of keeping it (relatively) short let's just say that there have been many visits to the doctors (where it took a long time to be taken seriously) but it seems to me that I have been managing symptoms since without ever finding their cause. I am better than I was and I am grateful for that. In part thanks to a few forums like this one!

 

On top of my wonderful life partner Alex, reading other people's accounts made me feel like I wasn't alone when people who once craved my company suddenly vanished. Reading about nootropics and trying my own “recipes” based on the knowledge and anecdotes I'd read here kept me semi-functional and sane all the while giving me hope. I found very touching the accounts of people trying to become better instead of feeling sorry for themselves. And I'll admit, some of the drama gave me a bit of social interaction by proxy, ahahhaha!

 

So now that I am doing well enough to put a few sentences together (albeit not in my mother tongue), I thought I'd say a huge THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart! My turn to share, in the hopes it may also help some people in their frantic Google searches, LOL.


[ NON SUPPLEMENTS ]

 

This won't be interesting for those involved in the quest for The One Pill that magically makes you crave doing the things you abhor. No substance does that without turning you into a pillwraith, so for those who want to better themselves but not mortgage tomorrow for a few good hours today, the following have been incredibly helpful to me:

 

Meditation

 

This is by far the thing that helped me out the most and reliably so. I started meditating for the anti-inflammatory properties and what do you know, the changes on my mental state were tremendous. It is the one thing that gave me back some control over myself and my perceptions even if just in realizing in the moment that I do have a choice, instead of letting circumstances and moods be at the helm. I've noticed that there is a clear distinction between the days I meditate and those I don't (when I do I tend to push myself more and am happier overall) although I do manage to not feel like meditating.

 

Cognitive Restructuring

 

Following the changes brought on by meditation, this allowed me a method to overcome myself as my own enemy. Meditation made me realize I had a choice and CR allowed me to choose wisely.

 

Good Nutrition/Exercise

 

Everyone knows the benefits of eating well so I won't go too much into that, but I will say that supplementing with vitamin D, krill oil, transdermal magnesium oil, reishi, vitamin B12 and Bio PQQ + Ubiquinol did actually make a difference.

 

I also am doing intermittent fasting (IF) which helps with my energy, but it only works if I drink a bulletproof (BP) coffee first thing in the morning (apparently it's common with women). BP coffee seemed really gimmicky to me but it was so crazy that I had to try! And I was actually surprised to find that it is the only coffee in reasonable amounts that gives me sustainable and interesting energy. My BF can do with or without BP coffee and IF has allowed him to cut down his gym time by 2/3 (no kidding he goes once a week and maintains his shape, the bastard! :)

 

It's been really hard to exercise regularly with the pain but even at 20 minutes a day I notice the difference on my mood, energy and mental capacities.

 

Polyphasic Sleep

 

I've been doing Polyphasic Sleeping (PS) for about 6 years. I experimented with different schedules (I did the überman schedule for a little less than a year) and the one I find is the best compromise between comfort and efficiency is Everyman 2-naps. It was actually a game changer for me. I used to have migraines and bad headaches very often and they almost completely stopped (I haven't had a migraine since). Before I got sick it gave me greater energy (no late afternoon crashes) and whereas before it took me at least 45 min. to wake up in the morning (and I used to hate mornings) it was a thing of the past. Also the quality of my sleep becane incredible, you fall asleep before your head hits the pillow! Interestingly, it also cut down on the sickness time when I had colds and such. I just let myself sleep when I felt the need and seemed to recuperate much faster than before. Of course in the last two years it's taken a hit, but lately I've been able to start again and I feel much better since. It really agrees with me!


[ NOOTROPICS ]

 

Notes: 1) I am not particularly sensitive to substances. For example, coffee rarely does much for me other than be a pleasant ritual (I can drink it before going to sleep, no problem). So doses that work are usually higher for me than for most. Also homeostasis is strong in this one so substances poop out really quickly. 2) Since most of these substances have been discussed extensively on the web and that my post is quite monstrous, I've kept my account as brief as possible and added subjective details that seemed of interest. Don't hesitate to ask questions! 3) I always start with the lower dose, wait 30 min. and increase until desired effects are achieved or until maximum recommended dosage has been reached without effects.

 

// FIRST ROUND // NALT, L-TRYPTOPHAN, ALCAR, CHOLINE CDP

 

I had used L-Tyrosene and 5-HTP in times of need in the past but this time around after a bit of research I substituted them for NALT and L-Tryptophan. I added ALCAR and Choline CDP.

 

Minor improvements. The Tyrosene and 5-HTP worked better when I was healthy...I eventually dropped the Choline as I don't seem to need it and I take 500mg ALCAR for it's health benefits (but cannot say I feel any effects from it)

 

// SECOND ROUND // NOOPEPT, ANIRACETAM, OXIRACETAM, PRAMIRACETAM, COLURACETAM, SULBUTIAMINE

 

Initially produced some great effects when combined with Sulbutiamine. But even when I'd use them not more than 2-3 times per week they all pooped out after about a month (which seems to be my usual motus operandi). If I use them once in a while they'll work but not two days in a row. I started sulbutiamine at 500mg and it felt potent but now at doses of 1g I cannot feel much (even after taking a break for 2-3 months).

 

◘ COLURACETAM - The effects remained constant, but although it would give me a mild mood brightening effect (20%) and lift the brain fog (15%) it was still mild and I kept searching in hope of better things. I do use it occasionally when I need a little boost late in the evening as the effects only last for 2-3h (I've been doing polyphasic sleeping (PS) for 5-6 years now although it's been much harder lately)

 

// THIRD ROUND // PHENIBUT, L-DOPA, PHENYLPIRACETAM, SUNIFIRAM, UNIFIRAM, ADRAFINIL, MODAFINIL

 

◘ PHENIBUT – Extremely helpful to relieve my anxiety but haven't felt the nootropic effects other people mention or any euphoria. I seem to develop almost no tolerance to it, as I sometimes have used it daily for months (dosing between 500mg and 2g as needed) and whenever I'd stop, although there was some withdrawal as I was more on edge for a few days but not to the extent that my BF would notice. On two stressful occasions I went above 3g for more than a day and did notice that some tolerance took place as effects were blunted the following days. Sleep is indeed fantastic but it's harder to get up in the morning (although didn't bother my naps on PS strangely enough) and on the days I didn't guage properly my dose and took a tad too much, it made me complacent and lazy (albeit not caring about it :P) I don't know why it takes hours for some people to feel it, for me it's always within 20-30 min. Something weird though that I've never seen written about anywhere : when I'm in withdrawal or if I'm extremely stressed, I sometimes have to take up to 4g to feel something, but the following day I'd be at 1g and it would be fine. Like there was a cover to pay, eh. So in short, an invaluable tool for anxiety but whenever I can do without I don't take it as I feel it dulls me.

 

◘ L-DOPA – Except for the first time where it worked great (more energy and motivation) I could never get to a working dose without nausea.

 

◘ PHENYLPIRACETAM - gave me great energy (although surprisingly was not better for exercising) at the cost of a terrible mood. To corroborate what I've read multiple times, it doesn't feel clean. Ephedrine makes me similarly edgy.

 

◘ SUNIFIRAM - was extraordinary! Exercising was so much fun, the fatigue was gone and most importantly, my thoughts were clear!! I kept my doses around or bellow 10mg and it worked flawlessly past my usual deadline with no sign of tolerance whatsoever. I could even lower my doses as time went by (5mg) as my baseline seemed elevated, I think because it reconnected me pleasantly with the things I had come to dread.

 

Then... I made a stupid mistake. Late in the afternoon I received a package with some adrafinil. I don't mix things without research but I didn't think about the suni I had taken that morning and like most boys and girls upon receiving something shiny, I wanted to try it right away. So I took a dose of adrafinil. Not long after I became extremely tired, with brain fog and a weird headache. The following morning my ears were blocked and I had terrible tinnitus. Needless to say that I stopped all nootropics for about a month until it eased. The tinnitus completely went away, thankfully! I was really worried as music is one of my greatest pleasure in this world and the thought of not experiencing it the same way saddened me greatly. Since then, it's never worked, even at doses of 15mg. I do think that my baseline has been slightly higher since, as I took better life habits during my time with suni and all I had to do after was maintain.

 

I'd recommend it wholeheartedly if it wasn't for the fact that it's a pretty unknown compound.

 

◘ UNIFIRAM - failed to give me any effects (tried after the suni). Worked great for my bf, suni made him aggressive and mixing them (5mg each) smoothed things out somehow.

 

◘ ADRAFINIL - didn't work well for me: sometimes took hours for doses to be effective and the dosage needed varied. It's not very practical to take something without knowing when it'll kick nor with what strength!

 

◘ MODAFINIL – managed to get a prescription when it was hypothesized that I had chronic fatigue syndrome. It definitely helps (although I do not experience the mood brightening effects) but at the right dosage to get the energy I need I become slightly unfocused and have bruxism that gives me headaches. Like phenylpiracetam, it doesn't feel clean. I am grateful to have it though as it is very useful once in a while.

 

// FOURTH ROUND // TIANEPTINE, SELEGILINE, PEA

 

◘ TIANEPTINE – ahhhh, sweet tianeptine of leuuuve. 4-5 minutes after my first liquid dose, it felt as if the sun started shining through the clouds (for real, I started seeing more light, like if my pupils were dilated but they weren't. And in my defense for using that cliché I *was* looking at the sky when it happened ;)) I was having a particularly bad day so it may have contributed to the magical feeling but this beautiful molecule certainly has been very helpful since (more than three months now). The sweet spot in liquid is 20mg (I barely feel 12.5). The powder is a reasonably hand drawn facsimile but definitely not as good. Certainly cheaper although I need 50mg to feel the same thing. I used to dose 3 times a day but now do it on a as needed basis. Like sunifiram, I feel this raised my baseline permanently. Notes: when I take a little bit too much of the powder I have nausea. When I take it but don't need it there are no effects (that I can tell). Interestingly, when my BF exercises the effects are more pronounced. Effects: anti-depressant, mood brightener, little bit of energy, little bit of motivation and a mild painkiller. BTW, I followed Gorthor's guide to nootropic solution to calculate the Tianeptine dose better and it's worked really well. Hides the terrible taste too! Now I want to do it with all sorts of bulk supplements.

 

◘ SELEGILINE – I had been interested in this for its anti-aging properties but it isn't until I read about the combination with PEA as an energy booster that I decided to take the plunge. I was extremely surprised when the selegiline on it's own provided me (instantly!) with energy, motivation and cleared most of my brain fog. I take 2mg sublingualy EOD after my BP coffee. The first week it put me in a slightly pleasant manic phase where I wanted to do everything and anything. It reduced my monstrous quantity of sleep to something more normal and thanks to it I am back on PS. I have been taking it for a month now and I am not sure if it fixed something broken in my brain or if i'd revert to my previous state were I to discontinue usage (but too chicken to try, eh). Some days my other symptoms take over so it's not flawless and I still have bad days (increasing the dose doesn't help)

 

◘ PEA – on the bad days where the selegiline didn't seem to have it's usual effect, I've experimented with PEA but I feel no love. The quantity of energy provided is on par with mental confusion for me so there is no point. I never did experience the wonderful euphoria some talked about, when I increased the dose out of curiosity (hey, I like euphoria as much as the next guy) I just felt confused and with a warm body sensation that should have been nice but somehow managed not to be. Maybe I was so hellbound on using it for productivity that I couldn't appreciate the hedonistic value, so I ought to try in the right context but haven't felt compelled to do so.

 


[ CONCLUSION ]

 

When possible, I think the first line of defense against depression and anxiety are exercise/healthy eating and meditation. The rest would ideally be build upon that. These things are powerful things that are grossly underestimated (even by doctors) and are easy to forget because they require effort. But in a way I do find that the road to getting better is to make efforts and get outside of our comfort zone when we can.

 

With the exception of Kratom I feel I have now tried all reasonable and legal substances that can help me. I am nowhere near my old self, but at least thanks to those supplements I remain somewhat functional while I can figure what is going on and hopefully someday I'll find the magic switch ;) Sometimes I'm stunned at the number of things I take in a week to make it bearable but then I think about the alternative and I happily take them!

 

I hope the usefulness of the info hasn't been buried under the abundance of information! I'm a bit worried at how long this post is, but at the same time I've cut all I could, I swear, ahahaha!

 

If you have any questions, shoot!


Edited by Isabeau, 12 January 2015 - 01:28 AM.

  • Informative x 5
  • Well Written x 2

#2 Mr Matsubayashi

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 12:07 PM

Hello Isabeau

 

That was very well written and I'm sure google searches will benefit from your contribution. :D

 

Did you ever investigate and build a hypothesis as to why cessation of the pill caused such dramatic effects?


  • Good Point x 2

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#3 Dee

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 06:35 PM

WHAT?????? 

 

I thought stuff like NOOPEPT, ANIRACETAM, OXIRACETAM, like would increase its effects over time. Different people say different things, seems you reacted to it differently then.



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#4 Isabeau

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 07:40 PM

Thank you Mr Matsubayashi! I just googled your avatar and fell on the youtubes, pretty funny!

 

The doctors are more or less scratching their heads and ordering tests (the waiting lists are pretty long though (BOO) but it's free (YAY)).

My current theory (they change according to my internet searches and as symptoms evolve, I'll admit) is rather circumvoluted, but it's the only one so far that explains all the symptoms.

 

The one thing that came back questionable outside of my thyroid was very low progesterone. I started the pill at the end of a long period of constant stress so I theorize that cortisol competing for common receptors with progesterone, my production was impaired but asymptomatic because of the artificial one I started to take. When I stopped it came back with a vengeance. I'm hoping it's that, all I'd need to do is apply progesterone cream twice a day! I have an appointment with the endocrinologist in three weeks, we'll see. There's the possibility of a brain tumour but my scans are a while away. At least they can deal with those pretty easily nowadays and cancer has been ruled out. So let's just say that although I find the present difficult, the future doesn't worry me, which is great :)

 

I guess life is taking all the pms I never had and compressed them into a 2 year plan :laugh:

 

@Dee yes me too. I can't wait to try all this again once I'm healthy, it'll be interesting to see if it changes something.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: phenibut, sunifiram, tianeptine, selegiline, meditation, phenipiracetam, modafinil, adrafinil, unifiram

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