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Neurotrophins increase

ngf bdnf nt-3 nt-4

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#1 welbi

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 03:07 PM


Hi, I wanted to open this topic regarding the increase of neurotrophins. I noticed that there are no conventional medicines containing these molecules, however there are several on the market homeopathic products that contain them. The dilution is CH 4, the lowest. I informed (calling) and homeopathic company in question contain neurotrophins synthesis which are subsequently diluted. What do you think about it, would be a desirable situation? Currently i take Lions Mane, Alcar, Omega 3 and Green Tea. What other solution do you recommend to increase neurotrophins?


Edited by welbi, 14 January 2015 - 03:08 PM.

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#2 HappyShoe

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 11:04 PM

Homeopathy is witchcraft bullshit


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#3 welbi

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Posted 18 January 2015 - 12:59 AM

Mine was only a hypothesis, because the products I mentioned contain the molecule, which is unavailable on the market. But which option would you choose?

#4 HappyShoe

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Posted 18 January 2015 - 06:39 AM

There are plenty of substances out there that increase BDNF and NGF, and many threads in which these are discussed. Use the search feature for BDNF or NGF and you'll find a lot of info on these. As far as NT4, NT5 etc. I don't know of anything available that acts on these.


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#5 Flex

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 03:11 PM

Like polygonatum sibiricum, which is somewhat stronger in BDNF enhancement than Selegiline.

For NGF, You could take e.g. Lion´s mane.

Btw: The half-life of Selegilines MAO-B inhibition is 4 weeks, so it could be unpleasant if You are sensitive to that.

 

The problem with Neurotrophins is, that they dont cross the blood brain barrier, in addition to that it would be expensiver that e.g. GDNF induction by Rehmannia glutinosa.

The other thing is, the effects of Homeophaty are not quiet validiated.

 

If You still want to get a homeophatic(dosed) neurotropic, try Tenoten:

http://awakebrain.com/tenoten.html


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#6 Flex

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 07:59 PM

Forgot to mention 7,8 DHT (7,8 dihydroxyflavone)

Its an agonist of TrkB

http://en.wikipedia....ceptor_kinase_B

 

So its equal to injecting BDNF. Consider this: after a while Those receptors become desentized and down-regulated.

Means: If You apruptly stop 7,8 DHT whitout tapering, it would have the same effect as inhibiting the TrkB receptor.

I dont know the exact consequences of this, but You could google it.#

 

By taking acetyl-carnitine(increasesw NGF to 100x) and acetyl-carnitine-arginate(NGF receptor expression) You´ll supposedly activate the NGF to a good extend

http://www.longecity...timulating-ngf/

 

However I dont know how to activate theTrkC receptor

 


Edited by Flex, 21 January 2015 - 08:21 PM.

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#7 HappyShoe

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 11:24 PM

There are plenty of substances out there that increase BDNF and NGF, and many threads in which these are discussed. Use the search feature for BDNF or NGF and you'll find a lot of info on these. As far as NT4, NT5 etc. I don't know of anything available that acts on these.

 

How is this dangerous irresponsible? This is just someone being butthurt repping me like that. This is just advice to go look up information. Whoever marked that is childish.


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#8 chemicalambrosia

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 03:15 AM

 

There are plenty of substances out there that increase BDNF and NGF, and many threads in which these are discussed. Use the search feature for BDNF or NGF and you'll find a lot of info on these. As far as NT4, NT5 etc. I don't know of anything available that acts on these.

 

How is this dangerous irresponsible? This is just someone being butthurt repping me like that. This is just advice to go look up information. Whoever marked that is childish.

 

 

There is a troll(s) that goes around down-repping random posts. It is unfortunate, because I think the rating system is pretty helpful if it is used correctly.


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#9 the_apollo

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 02:37 AM

Homeopathy is witchcraft bullshit

 

Companies selling nootropics and non-FDA approved "drugs" call it homeopathy to get around the need for FDA approval, the same is said for many other countries around the world with their respective government bodies for health/medicine safety.

But real homeopathic "medicine" is essentially just horsepiss mixed in with grass, so youre not so wrong to assume "homeopathy" with something negative.

 

Anyway, Flex did make a good point there above, neurotrophins does NOT cross the blood-brain-barrier, so taking anything that is or is in the body metabolized into an neurotrophin would not do anything for the brain since it's not able to reach cross to the brain.



#10 HappyShoe

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 08:05 AM

 

 

There are plenty of substances out there that increase BDNF and NGF, and many threads in which these are discussed. Use the search feature for BDNF or NGF and you'll find a lot of info on these. As far as NT4, NT5 etc. I don't know of anything available that acts on these.

 

How is this dangerous irresponsible? This is just someone being butthurt repping me like that. This is just advice to go look up information. Whoever marked that is childish.

 

 

There is a troll(s) that goes around down-repping random posts. It is unfortunate, because I think the rating system is pretty helpful if it is used correctly.

 

 

There is an easy fix to this, by showing who left each rep. That would identify who are the trolls, and if they are generally being disruptive elsewhere, they could then be dealt with.

 


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#11 Inosine

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 03:50 PM

Forgot to mention 7,8 DHT (7,8 dihydroxyflavone)

Its an agonist of TrkB

http://en.wikipedia....ceptor_kinase_B

 

So its equal to injecting BDNF. Consider this: after a while Those receptors become desentized and down-regulated.

Means: If You apruptly stop 7,8 DHT whitout tapering, it would have the same effect as inhibiting the TrkB receptor.

I dont know the exact consequences of this, but You could google it.#

 

By taking acetyl-carnitine(increasesw NGF to 100x) and acetyl-carnitine-arginate(NGF receptor expression) You´ll supposedly activate the NGF to a good extend

http://www.longecity...timulating-ngf/

 

However I dont know how to activate theTrkC receptor

How is it possible that alcar increase ngf a hundred times? If I were to take alcar and gain 100x as much ngf shouldn't I gain photographic memory or something?



#12 Flex

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 10:38 PM

Actually a good question but its propesed as such in the papers and advertisements of, dunno, nootropic vendors



#13 Duchykins

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 09:38 PM

The first responder here got it so right I actually laughed when I saw it.

 

Homeopathic "remedies" are so diluted and useless that they are used as placebo in real drug trials.

 

Now you know.



#14 Duchykins

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 09:41 PM

https://www.scienceb...-of-homeopathy/

 

Docs also prescribe homeopathic crap as placebo to their patients



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#15 Raza

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 09:43 PM

 

Forgot to mention 7,8 DHT (7,8 dihydroxyflavone)

Its an agonist of TrkB

http://en.wikipedia....ceptor_kinase_B

 

So its equal to injecting BDNF. Consider this: after a while Those receptors become desentized and down-regulated.

Means: If You apruptly stop 7,8 DHT whitout tapering, it would have the same effect as inhibiting the TrkB receptor.

I dont know the exact consequences of this, but You could google it.#

 

By taking acetyl-carnitine(increasesw NGF to 100x) and acetyl-carnitine-arginate(NGF receptor expression) You´ll supposedly activate the NGF to a good extend

http://www.longecity...timulating-ngf/

 

However I dont know how to activate theTrkC receptor

How is it possible that alcar increase ngf a hundred times? If I were to take alcar and gain 100x as much ngf shouldn't I gain photographic memory or something?

 

 

Not really, since NGF doesn't seem overly involved in the brain. It's mostly a peripheral neurotrophin. In fact, my neuroscience textbook didn't paint a very optimistic picture of what beneficial effects of increasing neurotrophins in the brain could be expected... it said that you could knockout BDNF in mammals (rats?) and hardly see the difference in the brain tissues. Which made me wonder, what research are we actually basing ourselves on trying to increase neurotrophins? I mean, I know about benefits in depression and following up on various insults, but is there even so much as an animal study showing increased learning in rats or something?

Also, Re:above, I don't think TrkRs do classic downregulation. They undergo endocytosis as part of their primary signaling cascade, taking their ligand and intracellular signalling proteins with them on a dynein ride to the soma. Theoretically, this is supposed to be more to limit ligand availability than to limit receptor availability, but presumably it'd effectively limit whichever of the two is scarcer. Now, neurotrophin absorption is a competitive business, and axons absorbing TrbR-ligand complexes like this are supposed to gain a growth advantage that lets them compete with rival synapses even better in the next round, so I would guess that you might see positive sooner than negative feedback on receptor turnover from strong agonism, but again, emphasis on guess.
 


Edited by Raza, 05 August 2015 - 09:45 PM.






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