8 replies to this topic

[TheFountain]

There is something my girlfriend has made me aware of in the past few months. And that is the fact that Americans have this tendency to be inconsistent, with friends, family, work, goals etc, compared with Asian people, particularly the Chinese. 

 

And she's right. I mean she's basing this on first hand observations having lived both places. Most Americans I know who judge the shit out of China and its culture have never been there and the ones judging tend to be narcissists anyway. American culture fuels that mentality of course, as we know.

 

But some glaring examples she has brought to my attention are as follows:

 

-Chinese people are always goal oriented in the practical sense. They choose goals and focus on them till they are accomplished. Many Americans say this, they say that, but they so frequently do not follow up on it.

 

-The sense of community is much stronger in Asian countries, especially China. People literally treat each other like family. Strangers on the street are literally thought of as Family. In America we are taught and conditioned to have this consciousness of directional vectors related to danger. Every stranger (especially men) are thought of as potential dangers, potential competitors, potential foes. Strangers in china are greeted pleasantly, as family, whether they are men or women. This pleasantness is a constant behavioral norm in China, not a behavior that shows up and is gone as often the case in America. 

 

-Because of the consistent compassion Chinese people have for one another as family and community, there is basically no poverty anywhere in China. And what they consider poverty isn't absolute poverty like we think of in America. That is non-existent there. Even those in so called 'poverty' in China live comfortable lives in houses and have cars. In America, when we think of poverty we think of someone living in a run down building, unable to support themselves or their children if need be. 

 

-Teachers in China are ALWAYS paid an excellent wage, whereas in America the wages teachers are paid varies from decent to poor. This consistency of that portion of the chinese economy is probably why there are so many thriving scientific and business oriented minds coming out of china. And as a matter of fact, everyone gets paid a minimum of a living wage in China, regardless of their job!

 

So my main interest now is to discover why Americans treat one another in such an inconsistent way, and is American inconsistency the reason for all our myriad problems? 

 

Is it the reason we have one of the highest poverty rates of any civilized nation? Is it the reason we cannot educate those in poverty? Is it the reason we have so many friggin druggies running around? Is it the reason corporations are taking over and private businesses are falling under? Is it the reason we have so many god damn narcissistic and insecure people in this country? Is it the reason many teachers get paid so badly in America?

 

Anyway, let's shoot. I know this is going to be a topic of interest for anybody who cares about the mental health of their fellow human beings. 

[serp777]

The United States is a very inconsistent nation. We are scientific and have the best universities in the world, yet 40% of the nation believes in creationism instead of evolution.

 

We are a republic and value democratic choice above almost everything but the outcomes of elections and congressional votes are mostly determined by campaign finance and lobbyists

 

We have a health food craze going on, and yet we have the most obese population on the planet.

 

We ask other countries to reduce their pollution while the average American Joe demands cheap gas and electricity thus making us the biggest polluters on the planet.

 

We want to be at the forefront of technology, and yet we are unwilling to pay for higher education.

 

We want to have good healthcare and social security, but we,especially the rich, don't want to have to pay taxes, .

 

There are about a million other things too. The United States is the master nation of inconsistency.

 

 

Edited by serp777, 12 February 2015 - 04:24 AM.

[TheFountain]

Part of the problem is also that while we might have the best universities, we do not actually have the best minds. Most of those come from over seas to utilize our university resources. 

 

No where is that more cleverly portrayed than in The Big Bang Theory episode where Dennis Kim, the Korean prodigy makes Sheldon look kinda small, and with little effort. But the truth is Dennis Kim's fate is not likely IRL. 

 

So we must up the ante on those synaptic connections in America. Get the poisonous piss out of us from the junk food and the soda and get back on our feet. All the while learning a thing or two from supposedly inferior nations. 

[Sanhar]

Speaking generally, America is a very stratified society.  We have different groups of people who do different things and in sum total things tend to get done but only based on what the appropriate groups do.  I tend to think of it as a grand leader vs. follower scenario.  You have your political leadership, intellectual leadership, social leadership... then the masses.  The masses do not seem to be particularly motivated or capable of rising to leadership although individuals may do so.  This may be supported by the current structures in education, social policy and the like and it may be the case that leadership wants to keep the masses as they are.

 

Current trends in technology (the internet, youtube, etc.) have made it easier for the average person to make something of themselves but they still need to be minded to do so.  Many people are in fact simply desiring to live a simple life of relative happiness and comfort and don't want to contribute more than they have to, believing that they can't do more and think someone else is better able to do that whether or not they want to do more.  They tacitly accept being controlled as long as that control is benevolent, i.e. the subject tolerates the existence of the king if the king is good.

 

All of this being said it is a matter of debate as to whether or not this system is working sufficiently well for existing leadership.  I absolutely do think that people gaining indefinite lifespans is not going to make it worse and in fact will probably make it better.  It's also what, behind the scenes, the leadership will ultimately want since less generational turnover leads to greater stability and toleration of the existing regime (conservatism over time).  This being said those people who want to do more and be more will have a better chance to do so as they will have more time to try.

[TheFountain]

Why was this moved to politics and law? What did I mention about politics in my post? Explain, thanks. 

[Russ Maughan]

So my main interest now is to discover why Americans treat one another in such an inconsistent way, and is American inconsistency the reason for all our myriad problems? 

Mostly television instead of parenting, nurturing.

 

Is it the reason we have one of the highest poverty rates of any civilized nation?

Yes. Many college graduates are deluded from TV that there will be a big bucks job waiting on them.

 

Is it the reason we cannot educate those in poverty?

No. Poverty stricken people suffer from mental atrify.

 

Is it the reason we have so many friggin druggies running around?

Yes. Sex, drugs and rock and roll are not the same as eat, drink and be merry.

 

Is it the reason corporations are taking over and private businesses are falling under?

Yes.

 

Is it the reason we have so many god damn narcissistic and insecure people in this country?

Yup.

 

Is it the reason many teachers get paid so badly in America?

No teachers here have always been altruistic and do not want a million a year to teach. What they can not do is teach kids that do not want to be taught.

 

Anyway, let's shoot. I know this is going to be a topic of interest for anybody who cares about the mental health of their fellow human beings.

Do what you can when you can. Every little bit helps.

[Russ Maughan]

Probably moved here because if you study the evolution of laws in this country you see just how inconsistent it has been from the start. Most of our laws are just barrowed from England and edited to support business.

[Sanhar]

So my main interest now is to discover why Americans treat one another in such an inconsistent way, and is American inconsistency the reason for all our myriad problems? 

Mostly television instead of parenting, nurturing.

 

Is it the reason we have one of the highest poverty rates of any civilized nation?

Yes. Many college graduates are deluded from TV that there will be a big bucks job waiting on them.

 

Is it the reason we cannot educate those in poverty?

No. Poverty stricken people suffer from mental atrify.

 

Is it the reason we have so many friggin druggies running around?

Yes. Sex, drugs and rock and roll are not the same as eat, drink and be merry.

 

Is it the reason corporations are taking over and private businesses are falling under?

Yes.

 

Is it the reason we have so many god damn narcissistic and insecure people in this country?

Yup.

 

Is it the reason many teachers get paid so badly in America?

No teachers here have always been altruistic and do not want a million a year to teach. What they can not do is teach kids that do not want to be taught.

 

Anyway, let's shoot. I know this is going to be a topic of interest for anybody who cares about the mental health of their fellow human beings.

Do what you can when you can. Every little bit helps.

 

In order:

 

a.  Television (or the internet, or gangs, or... anything) are the replacement for the nurturing that many parents either cannot or will not give their children.  The problem is centered on poor parenting capability/desire.  Children naturally want their parents' attention and if they get it will normally adhere to that as opposed to other sources in exclusivity.  It changes a bit in the teen years but teenagers don't have to be in full out rebellion if parents are in good order about things.

 

b.  Much of the college situation at the moment is a lie and is being sold as a product much like you'd find on any infomercial.  It's taking the country a long time to come around to this fact although I am seeing it happening.  Between many people thinking you have to have a college education to be a decent person and many other people thinking, as you say, that college is a ticket to a job by default we have a situation where people are getting degrees without a clear and effective plan to use it.  College *should* be a well-thought out tool, not a rite of passage or a status symbol.  This has to change and it is changing.

 

c.  Poverty-stricken people sometimes suffer from mental atrophy but that's mostly because they have given up on the notion of socioeconomic mobility.  It may also be that some povery-stricken people are simply not minded by way of familial culture or other generation-based attributes but I don't think that is universal by any means.  I've met poor, intelligent, capable people who are frustrated and don't know how to make something of themselves.  I hear from them that "no-one wants to take the time to explain things to me, or to help me".  Their schooling didn't help (and I understand why) and then society cuts them loose.  What did we think would happen?

 

d.  People are largely into drugs because they're avoiding the pain and despair of their life situation.  Others also take drugs because they see no reason not to - they don't see a future for themselves beyond what they have and they don't care if it kills them one day (or so they think).  The solution to d. is the same as to c. and could be partly (not entirely) solved by the solution to a.

 

e.  For-profit corporations exist to make a profit.  It's the only thing you can rely on them to do.  They will do this in any way they are legally allowed to do and, in some cases, not legally allowed to do, some of such ways seem to go uncaught.  This is dealt with by regulation and is absolutely necessary to some extent.  Keeping this balanced and relatively unharmed by corruption is a running issue and may well not be being dealt with effectively at this time.

 

f.  I don't feel it's so much that people are narcissistic.  It's more that people follow the pleasure principle - they do what feels most good given their current options and capabilities.  We don't seem to have the social culture or sense of personal ethics ingrained into the individual public that was once there and so they're reverting to "this works for me".  It's unfortunate because "what works for me" is, truly, usually what works "for everyone" but that requires long-term thinking that I do not see promoted or described often.  Commercials are getting people to buy things and appeal to the pleasure principle, not what's good for society.  Thus, whose fault is this exactly?

 

g.  Teachers are not martyrs.  They want to get paid a good 60 to 70k a year for what they do, it's just not available.  Other countries DO pay this sort of salary and get what they pay for.  No, teachers aren't asking for 200k, but no-one needs that.  As for kids not wanting to learn, it's more that schools aren't teaching them much that they want to learn.  Throw a bunch of irrelevant data at a child/teenager and you will see them shut down very quickly - and I don't blame them.  School reform is a big issue and has been discussed for years at this point.

 

[Russ Maughan]

I think our country is growing up some finally. It's odd though. In 1962 when I started first grade we had booklets you pasted stamps of great painters masterpeices into. That inspired me. Otherwise yes, the curriculum was for babies. Long 12 years.