5 replies to this topic

[mistfit]

Hi, I just ordered some noots for sampling and evaluating their individual effects. 

 

First, I read there are very few drug interaction problems but would like more input on this. Right now I take meds for GAD, mild depression and ADHD.

 I also have a serious alcohol addiction problem that I want to address ASAP since I started getting neuropathic symptoms.

 

My goals are to taper off the meds and switch to noot equivalents. And address my addiction the smart and efficient way.

 

I take these in the morning. 

- Vyvanse 40mg

- Effexor 150mg

 

The nootropics I ordered are:

 

- Piracetam + Aniracetam (for comparison)

- Picamilon + Phenibut (for comparison)

- Phenylethylamine HCL

- Sulbutiamine

 

Nootropics I have started experimenting with are:

 

- Inositol (still testing with dosage increments but promising...mega-dosing for ADHD ?)

- Agmatine sulfate (anxiolytic, anti-depressive, appetite stimulant, anti-addiction) 

 

agmatine = definite calming effect and reduction of the shakes

 

So here are my questions:

 

1. Are there any possible negative interactions with my meds if taken simultaneously vs hours apart.

 

ex: picamilon/SNRI as it is a MAOI. I figure it's not enough to cause SS but perhaps?

sulbutiamine/amphetamine work the opposite way. issues?

 

3. what is the best time for each of these and could/should they all be stacked together? combos and timing?

 

4.  Would sulbutiamine (being a more potent version of B1) help with neuropathy and withdrawal?

 

5. besides phenibut, picamilon and agmatine, is there another I should beware of with taking alongside alcohol? racetams?

 

 

I mean to test them individually before stacking, I just want a heads up on possible no-no mixes and best practices.

Also any other advice is welcomed.

 

 

thanks a bunch. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TylerSkippy]

This looks like a teeny bit of overkill. Your poor brain might pop. Or you'll replace those meds with blood pressure meds. I think you might be barking up some of the wrong trees. Here's my recommendation:

 

1. Get this: 

f.lux: software to make your life better

 

This has worked wonders for me. Quality sleep, even in small amounts, does wonders for your brain.

 

2. Get a fish oil supplement. While the research is a bit scattered, it's looking like fish oil supplements are important for mood and focus regulation. Plus--and most people don't think about this--your brain is made up of fat. Protein for your muscles, (healthy) fat for your brain. Besides, worst case scenario, you improve your heart health. It will also help with any joint pain.

 

3. Get protein in the A.M. It's easy to avoid because a lot of people can't handle heavy, savory food, especially with amphetamines, in the morning. But your neurotransmitters are all made up of amino acids, which come from protein. 

 

4. Take L-Tyrosine at night. This is the amino acid that grows up to become dopamine, and amphetamines are like a juicer to the fruit that is your dopamine/tyrosine stores. Give them a chance to replenish.

 

5. Keep your blood sugar steady. Basically avoid taking in dissolved sugars on an empty stomach, and especially avoid sodas. Stick to complex carbs, small-medium amounts of sugar in SOLID food (you don't have to go full atkins), and protein is key to steady blood sugar levels. Don't let them tank either. Keep snackin. Trail mix is an excellent option.

 

6. Drink water. Constantly. Just do it.

 

7. Stretch/do yoga. I know my lower back pain is distracting and prevents good sleep/relaxation, so if you have some aches that aren't joint-related, look up a stretch program you can do first thing in the morning, right when you get home from work, and right before bed. Most people sit or stand a ton which generates bad hips/hip flexors. Your hip flexors attach to your lower spine. 

 

As far as herbal/chemical noot supplements go, it seems you've jumped to the extremes a bit. These are my favorites:

 

1. Quercetin. I don't know why/how, but it makes me feel...lifted? It's quite nice, and best with a gentle pinch of caffeine (>50 mg)

2. Eleuthero Root/Siberian Ginseng. Similar effect to quercetin. Makes me feel good, but not buzzed. Almost like I'm lighter, I guess.

3. Other Ginsengs. Help me focus and get shit done. I'm less anxious when I'm kicking shit off the to-do list. Similar to #2.

4. Tums/alka seltzer. Why? Because raising blood ph increases the power of the Vyvanse.

 

 

[Galaxyshock]

2. Eleuthero Root/Siberian Ginseng. Similar effect to quercetin. Makes me feel good, but not buzzed. Almost like I'm lighter, I guess.

3. Other Ginsengs. Help me focus and get shit done. I'm less anxious when I'm kicking shit off the to-do list. Similar to #2.

 

I agree, at least one adaptogen is great general help and rarely has interactions with meds, also side-effects are rarely experienced. Although, Panax Ginseng is a 5ht2a-agonist, so certain concern is when combining with SSRIs, at least in bipolars it can induce hypomania. Eleuthero is faster acting so may be a nice choice. I'd also take Gotu Kola because it's anti-addictive, mood-stabilizing and nootropic.

[mistfit]

This looks like a teeny bit of overkill. Your poor brain might pop. Or you'll replace those meds with blood pressure meds. I think you might be barking up some of the wrong trees. Here's my recommendation:

 

1. Get this: 

f.lux: software to make your life better

 

This has worked wonders for me. Quality sleep, even in small amounts, does wonders for your brain.

 

2. Get a fish oil supplement. While the research is a bit scattered, it's looking like fish oil supplements are important for mood and focus regulation. Plus--and most people don't think about this--your brain is made up of fat. Protein for your muscles, (healthy) fat for your brain. Besides, worst case scenario, you improve your heart health. It will also help with any joint pain.

 

3. Get protein in the A.M. It's easy to avoid because a lot of people can't handle heavy, savory food, especially with amphetamines, in the morning. But your neurotransmitters are all made up of amino acids, which come from protein. 

 

4. Take L-Tyrosine at night. This is the amino acid that grows up to become dopamine, and amphetamines are like a juicer to the fruit that is your dopamine/tyrosine stores. Give them a chance to replenish.

 

5. Keep your blood sugar steady. Basically avoid taking in dissolved sugars on an empty stomach, and especially avoid sodas. Stick to complex carbs, small-medium amounts of sugar in SOLID food (you don't have to go full atkins), and protein is key to steady blood sugar levels. Don't let them tank either. Keep snackin. Trail mix is an excellent option.

 

6. Drink water. Constantly. Just do it.

 

7. Stretch/do yoga. I know my lower back pain is distracting and prevents good sleep/relaxation, so if you have some aches that aren't joint-related, look up a stretch program you can do first thing in the morning, right when you get home from work, and right before bed. Most people sit or stand a ton which generates bad hips/hip flexors. Your hip flexors attach to your lower spine. 

 

As far as herbal/chemical noot supplements go, it seems you've jumped to the extremes a bit. These are my favorites:

 

1. Quercetin. I don't know why/how, but it makes me feel...lifted? It's quite nice, and best with a gentle pinch of caffeine (>50 mg)

2. Eleuthero Root/Siberian Ginseng. Similar effect to quercetin. Makes me feel good, but not buzzed. Almost like I'm lighter, I guess.

3. Other Ginsengs. Help me focus and get shit done. I'm less anxious when I'm kicking shit off the to-do list. Similar to #2.

4. Tums/alka seltzer. Why? Because raising blood ph increases the power of the Vyvanse.

 

Thanks, yes I didn't mention in my post what I was already taking as basic supplementation.

Also, as I mentioned, This list is just stuff I ordered and never intended to stack all of it but rather experiment the individual effects for comparison and later stacking ideas.

- Have been using f.lux for months.

- Am taking high quality Omega3 @ 1g

- I do the green protein shake as meal replacement

- I drink tons of water (carbonated) 

- I try to keep my diet as close to paleo/bulletproof as possible (no snack no crap)

 

Thanks for the info on noots et al. Quercetin seems interesting.

I recently tried phenibut and noticed a slight effect on anxiety and withdrawal symptoms. need more testing.

[TylerSkippy]

Inositol is fine, it will either help or do nothing. Phenibut worries me a little, but I'm mostly concerned about the racetams. If something goes horribly wrong with those, there are few docs that are gonna know what to do since it's gray market stuff. If you do want to get a supplement regimen down, I'd recommend stopping everything but the basic supplements and your meds and saving up for an extended vacation. If you get the chance, I'd take this stuff to some place where you can be outside in someplace gorgeous (I'd go to colorado for a month or two for my happy place) and start a diet/exercise routine and get some zen and give yourself a chance to approach this scientifically. First take care of the alcohol issue, then ween yourself off of effexor. I'm not sure going off adhd meds will be worth it full time, it'll likely make your depression worse though your anxiety will go down. The anxiety should be priority 1 because it seems to cause the other two. It's tough to focus when you're constantly obsessively worried right? And then you need booze to calm down and relax?

 

I just recently started Vyvanse and have been spending the last month doing a spring cleaning of EVERYTHING. Unfortunately I have other shit I should be doing, but my pre-medicated self left present me a lot of things to take care of and clean. If I could take a month of from work and school, I would. Perhaps some time off to eliminate and confront some of those stressors, and figure out what stressors you should/can avoid. For me, it's clutter. Knowing that there's space not being properly used and feeling closed in stresses me out. So I clean everything, and I feel GREAT. For you there's likely a common factor or a way to categorize your stressors. For me it's clutter, finances, and confrontation in my relationships. So I've been keeping things clean (the garage is getting it's ass kicked this weekend), I disabled notifications for almost everything and deleted half my apps on my phone because the clutter on the screen was stressing me out and my phone blowing up was stressful. I got a new e-mail so I get less spam, used an unsubscribe service to lessen spam, cleaned up my computer, and switched to google stuff because there aren't ads all over the screen. Then I started figuring out how to budget my money, and got a system that makes me feel in control. Finally, I stopped holding stuff in and made sure that I addressed things with my roommates and girlfriend that need to be addressed, and let her know that things were gonna be different and I wasn't going to bottle things up just to avoid an argument. 

 

I'm not saying your stuff is the same, I'm just saying all the nootropics in the world won't necessarily help. Anxiety, substance abuse, and depression all can be put behind you to where medication wont be necessary. ADHD unfortunately is something you're kinda stuck with, because those dopamine receptors ain't coming back. I know there's a stigma on counseling but I wish my psych did more of it and didn't just throw meds at me. I've been using technology to streamline my life and feeling optimized makes me feel less stressed and mentally clear. 

 

Sorry, got a little preachy there. Vyvanse peak lol. I just like to help people, I guess. But I hope I've been helpful and not annoying, and I'll be rooting for you to kick the booze and the worry! I'm not sure what it is you drink, but drinking from the same vessel (glass bottles or rocks glasses) has helped some of my friends. Best of luck to you!

[mistfit]

Thanks Tyler, Yes streamlining is very alleviating. I'm doing that too.

I'm actually going into a 3 week rehab program this monday. So that's a start. The nootropics I'm looking into right now are mostly for neuroprotection (as detox can be damaging) and some of them actually are anti-craving since they bind to GABA receptors. Vyvanse is the last thing I'll  address but have read that it does make you biochemistry sluggish in the long run. I will however, prioritize techniques like neurofeedback and yoga as much as possible. Also diet and excercise. I think noots could be helpful in specific "as needed" situations. Racetams have extensive studies and no major negative side effects have been found yet (piracetam more specifically since it's the oldest). Cheers