13 replies to this topic

[Brandon innes]

Hey guys, so Ive been diagnosed with add (not hyper) and I've tried everything from concerta,adderall xr/ir, to now vyvanse. Vyvanse is only thing that works and after a couple months I figured how to get vyvanse to work perfectly (played with my dosages, eating and sleeping habits, exercise) I found 40mg works best and anything more makes me over stimulated and tired. So I take 1 every morning... after two months it started wearing off around 3-4pm and I asked for dexedrine for a booster and got it (doc didn't even know what it was till I told her it was basically vyvanse instant). I got 5mg of dex for a booster. Although I tried the dexedrine on its own and it's like vyvanse without the energy properties... Zero burst in energy (don't recommend adderall ir my body doesn't work well with addy). So I've been trying to take days off instead ,which work, but it's so damn hard without vyvanse I'm back to being useless or self medicating with alcohol. Nootropics work a little for me, but not worth getting off vyvanse for and I will not combine racetams (aniracetam is the best for me). I just need something to help kind of give that extra boost to add with my vyvanse (help get that energy burst) So I considered certain noots like vinpo,ginkgo, bacopa, huperzine, dmae. Will adding these supplements with vyvanse help(they help a lot with energy and clarity) give me that extra edge I'm looking for? And are they safe to add with vyvanse and dexedrine? I know racetams are bad but idk about these. I feel if I combined them it'd be my magic cure to both mental focus and energy/motivation. Also adding NALT (hdx mix) drink before bed to replenish dopamine helps vyvanse length too I found. Sorry for the scattered post, I'm multitasking right now and posting on my phone.

[TiredAt45]

I've tried a low dose of caffeine + bromantane on days off from Dex.  Seems smoother (less anxiety, grumpiness), slightly better mood with bromantane than without.

I've also tried Tianeptine just recently.  This also seems to make days off much more tolerable, but I need to test it more to be sure.

I have some problems that make me descend into a literal hell of crushing fatigue, psychomotor paralysis, and extreme irritability when off Dex.  I don't believe this is normal.  I was just as bad b4 taking Dex, so I don't believe it's withdrawals.

 

Why are you averse to racetams?

 

Dr. didn't know what's Dexedrine?  Shouldn't have a license IMHO.

[Brandon innes]

I hear they're bad to mix with vyvanse and dexedrine because exotoxicity (probably spelled that wrong) but I found my vyvanse works very well if I take it every morning with a full glass of water and remember to eat throughout the day a lot and drink tons of water. Protein shakes help too. Working out helps it a lot. SLEEP is the biggest factor in getting vyvanse to work i realized. If I don't get atleast 7 hours, I'm focused but My eyes are droopy and I'm tired But still motivated.

Vyvanse is amazing. Wonder drug for me. No complaints. Found out 40mg is perfect for me anymore than that I get over stimulated and feel like shit. same even when I drink coffee on it. No other Stims with vyvanse is key For me. Just food and lots of water. Chewing tabacco helps a lot too.

The dexedrine though.. my doctor knew what it was but I refused the addy booster so she finally said okay to the dex, she just never prescribed it before She always gave addy boosters.. I only got 5mg and I feel it's way too low I don't feel much at all on it just like a really calm focus but not that energy, motivation vyvanse gives me.. any reason why you think? I tried taking 10mg at once of it and it felt perfect still not as motivated but way better so I'll ask to get it higher.

Any reason why dex doesn't give off the energy and motivation feel vyvanse does even though it's basically the same?

with the racetams... I don't want to have that much brain activity going on and kill cells. If vyvanse works and works well and already stimulating lots of neurons I'm not trying to mess with my brain any more than that besides for like NALT anD Phenibut.

Although Id love to run piracetam. I like piracetam For memory. Is it safe to use piracetam with vyvanse and dex?

[TiredAt45]

I hear they're bad to mix with vyvanse and dexedrine because exotoxicity (probably spelled that wrong) but I found my vyvanse works very well if I take it every morning with a full glass of water and remember to eat throughout the day a lot and drink tons of water. Protein shakes help too. Working out helps it a lot. SLEEP is the biggest factor in getting vyvanse to work i realized. If I don't get atleast 7 hours, I'm focused but My eyes are droopy and I'm tired But still motivated.

Vyvanse is amazing. Wonder drug for me. No complaints. Found out 40mg is perfect for me anymore than that I get over stimulated and feel like shit. same even when I drink coffee on it. No other Stims with vyvanse is key For me. Just food and lots of water. Chewing tabacco helps a lot too.

The dexedrine though.. my doctor knew what it was but I refused the addy booster so she finally said okay to the dex, she just never prescribed it before She always gave addy boosters.. I only got 5mg and I feel it's way too low I don't feel much at all on it just like a really calm focus but not that energy, motivation vyvanse gives me.. any reason why you think? I tried taking 10mg at once of it and it felt perfect still not as motivated but way better so I'll ask to get it higher.

Any reason why dex doesn't give off the energy and motivation feel vyvanse does even though it's basically the same?

with the racetams... I don't want to have that much brain activity going on and kill cells. If vyvanse works and works well and already stimulating lots of neurons I'm not trying to mess with my brain any more than that besides for like NALT anD Phenibut.

Although Id love to run piracetam. I like piracetam For memory. Is it safe to use piracetam with vyvanse and dex?

 

Are you talking about 5-10mg of Dex. by itself, or in addition to 40mg Viv.?  I would expect that if you take 5mg later in the day, say 4-8 hrs after the Viv., then you should get a boost from that.  Exactly as intended.  But if you take 5-10mg by itself, that is probably below threshold for most people.  Threshold is probably about 15-20mg for dextro-amphetamine for virgin brains in 150lb bodies.

 

It is safe to use Piracetam with Dex./Vivanse, AFAIK.  There are differing reports about whether P suppresses vs. potentiates amphetamines.  Maybe it is unsafe for people taking abusive doses of amph.

[NinefingerJoe]

I wouldn't worry too much about he excitotoxicity as amphetamines work through dopamine and 'racetams work with acetylcholine and sometimes (depending on which one) glutamate.

Personally I take Adderall IR 10mg 2x/day and supplement with Noopept to fill in the gaps that the addy misses. I know that doesn't have anything to do with he problems you've described above but I'm just tying to let you know that I know where you are coming from.

As for the days off… yeah they are non-existent for me. I simply can't do it. Psychological dependence? Quite possibly…

[TiredAt45]

I wouldn't worry too much about he excitotoxicity as amphetamines work through dopamine and 'racetams work with acetylcholine and sometimes (depending on which one) glutamate.

Personally I take Adderall IR 10mg 2x/day and supplement with Noopept to fill in the gaps that the addy misses. I know that doesn't have anything to do with he problems you've described above but I'm just tying to let you know that I know where you are coming from.

As for the days off… yeah they are non-existent for me. I simply can't do it. Psychological dependence? Quite possibly…

 

What happens if you actually abstain for a day?  Extreme misery, or just low functioning?

 

I can deal with not doing much, if I didn't feel like hell.

 

Noopept helps much?  At what dose?  Thanks.
 

[NinefingerJoe]

I wouldn't worry too much about he excitotoxicity as amphetamines work through dopamine and 'racetams work with acetylcholine and sometimes (depending on which one) glutamate.

Personally I take Adderall IR 10mg 2x/day and supplement with Noopept to fill in the gaps that the addy misses. I know that doesn't have anything to do with he problems you've described above but I'm just tying to let you know that I know where you are coming from.

As for the days off… yeah they are non-existent for me. I simply can't do it. Psychological dependence? Quite possibly…

What happens if you actually abstain for a day? Extreme misery, or just low functioning?

I can deal with not doing much, if I didn't feel like hell.

Noopept helps much? At what dose? Thanks.

General misery and irrational agitation. It goes beyond not doing much, it's doing NOTHING. Literally. Sit and stare at the wall blank. The second day without is a little better though. Really it takes about 4 days to get back to "normal" but about a month to actually feel normal. Not sure if that makes any sense, but that's the best I can describe it.

As for the Noopept, I played with and tweaked the dosage and ended up with 30mg sublingually only once a day. It's not the immediate effects that really help me, it's the long term ones. For memory that is. I haven't experienced too much by way of focus and/ or motivation, but mood is better. And on a side note, since I've been taking the Noopept my reflexes are amazing. I feel like a cat or a ninja or something haha.

EDIT:
Upon reading this, it sounds like I'm trying to sell you on the noopept. Wasn't trying to.
Everyone is different and you'll have to find what is right for you. I'm just letting you know there are options.
From what I've read, a basic CILTEP stack seems to help potentiate amphetamines, but I haven't taken that and don't have any experiencial wisdom to share.

Edited by NinefingerJoe, 28 February 2015 - 04:35 AM.

[TiredAt45]

Joe, what you describe is similar to what I experience.  It's interesting that you use the exact language that I've used to describe it to others: "sit and stare at the wall blank."  For me usually the first day isn't so bad.  The 2nd and 3rd days are worse.  Functionality is 0%.  I try to keep alert by watching YouTube videos.  Later morning I'll have to take a nap.  Same in the afternoon.  By the evening, the difficulty motivating any action leads to edginess, and I start wanting to freak out and break or throw things.  The only escape is sleep.  however, sleeping arbitrarily results in a breakdown of circadian rhythm.  I wind up at 11pm-3am having a bit of relief, feeling not too awful  Good enough to surf the www again.  So I stay up all night even off the stuff!

 

Like I said, I don't believe this is normal.  ADHD patients who take "holidays" I don't believe go through this much difficulty.  My problem is Hg poisoning.  I felt nearly as bad 3 years ago before starting stims, which the Drs. put me on for excessive daytime sleepiness related to sleep apnea, which the stupid idiots thought was the problem with me, even though I told them that I had been deteriorating for 20 years, and a prior sleep study showed no sleep apnea.

 

Among other weird symptoms, I also experience varying degrees of psychomotor paralysis, particularly being unable to speak, or only with excrutiating effort, and just enough to tell someone "I can't talk now."

 

I'm convinced now that as I start chelation therapy to get the Hg out, that in time I'll feel better in general, and probably it will become less agonizing to stop the Dex. for varying amounts of time.

 

What worries me now is longer term anti-motivational problems.  I'm afraid I may one day feel like I can maintain energy without it normally again, but I still can't *do* anything, which was also the problem for years before.

 

Basically the stuff saved me by buying some time.  I would have been disabled 3 years ago.  If I had stopped working, I probably wouldn't have discovered the clue which revealed that I had Hg poisoning.  I'd probably have offed myself by now due to toxic psychosis.

 

I hope you find some solutions to your own problems.  I see you're relatively new here.  Feel free to PM me if you want to know more about where I'm at.  Maybe we have some things in common.

[Brandon innes]

When i was reading about the noopept , you said memory. Come to think of it, my short term memory is not so great when im on vyvanse. Ill repeat a story the next day and have someone tell me i already explained the story twice haha and i have no idea of it. Not a concern, i just repeat myself (probably because i love talking on vyvanse haha). it doesn't make me forget , say , my wallet or lose my keys. Anyway... i decided to play around with some things and talked to a pharmacist about it. Over the last few days ive taken this. 

 

Vyvanse 40mg morning with 250mg of magnesium..  10mg dex (got it upped)  in the evening 

Noopept 20mg morning

A product called celuron, and the ingredients are Bacopa powder,DHA,DMAE,Korean Ginseng Root Powder,L-Glutamine,Ginkgo Biloba Leaf extract.

Normal whey protein shake. Neat trick here... I actually have been opening the capsules and just mixing them with my shake , it seems like the vyvanse hits much faster, stronger, and lasts longer for some reason, even compared to taking the capsule with water and still drinking the shake.

 

Anyway, Effects are very weird. Good weird. But nothing like them on their own. Ive tried noopept dozens of times, and it never worked for me. Now, everything around me is so breathtaking , so much clearer and colors and visuals are just insane. Smell, sounds (music) , mood, memory, all are just amazing. ive never felt this good. the vyvanse is doing what its supposed to do and works great for me, but it seemed like adding the noopept and celuron is a must for now. it almost reminds me of the first week on vyvanse, that amazing uplifting euphoria. 

 

Seems like these are playing nice together. Im going to monitor it just incase, i still am a little iffy on mixing racetams with amphetamines. But if it stays like this, ill never complain again. 

[NinefingerJoe]

@Tiredat45 thank you so much for understanding what I mean. I know it's just a little thing, but I'm so glad somebody else out there knows. I've tried to explain it to my wife a thousand times but she maintains that I rely on my addy because I want to be "high."

@Brandon innes what type of magnesium are you taking? Magnesium Oxide has extremely low bioavailability. You might as well take sugar pills for all that actually gets into your bloodstream. Try an amino acid bonded form, such as Magnesium Glycinate or Magnesium L-Threonate as these will be activly absorbed through the gut and into the bloodstream.

[Brandon innes]

@Tiredat45 thank you so much for understanding what I mean. I know it's just a little thing, but I'm so glad somebody else out there knows. I've tried to explain it to my wife a thousand times but she maintains that I rely on my addy because I want to be "high."

@Brandon innes what type of magnesium are you taking? Magnesium Oxide has extremely low bioavailability. You might as well take sugar pills for all that actually gets into your bloodstream. Try an amino acid bonded form, such as Magnesium Glycinate or Magnesium L-Threonate as these will be activly absorbed through the gut and into the bloodstream.

 

[Galaxyshock]

Escalating doses with amphetamines is all downhill, sooner or later. Nootropics can delay and prevent some damage, but also fool you to think it's ok to keep going semi-scatterbrained.

[Brandon innes]

Hey guys I quit taking noopept and the other nootropic. I got bad headaches. Now it's just phenibut three times a week and normal vyvanse and dex once a day. So the vyvanse works obviously but I was almost thinking of switching back to nootropic for awhile. I'm not sure why. I feel I can get better results if I make the right stack. I was thinking pheylpiracetam,tyrosine,agpc,sulbutiamine,alcar,unifiram maybe. Hmm

[NinefingerJoe]

I also am trying to come up with a stack to let me cycle the amphetamine.
Right now I'm trying Oxiracetam, caffeine, and Sulbutiamine. Seems ok for today, though I did break down and take a 5mg "booster " of amph (compared to my usual 20mg).

I seem ok, I've got actual motivation as opposed to the amphetamine-induced COMPULSION to get things done. A nice change.

I've been doing some reading and playing around with the idea of using a hybrid CILTEP/ uridine stack to upregulate by dopamine receptors in the hope that I will be able to take lower effective doses of amphetamine.

What do you guys think?