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Best supplements for high blood pressure?

blood pressure

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#1 zwentibold

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 07:29 PM


Hello,

 

I am here, because I need advice for my dad. He's 61 and struggles with his high blood pressure. He's non smoker and maybe 2 kg above his optimal weight, so these are not the causes. The docs couldnt really help him and even with standard medication + supplements his blood pressure is often > 140/90. Here the current medication (derived mostly from Ray Kurzweil's book):

 

- Moxonidine 0,3 mg (2x/d) (docs prescription)

- Super Omega-3 EPA / DHA (2x/d)

- Curcumin (2x/d)

- Green Tea Extract (1/d)

- B-Vitamins

- Multivitamins

- Hawthorn (2x/d)

 

He takes the supplements for about 1,5 months and the moxonidine since mid 2014.

 

I know he should exercise more, but he has to work a lot and is often tired after work so he's lazy about that issue. He also has sleeping disorders and I guess this has also a negative influence on his blood pressure.

 

 

Thanks for your advice!



#2 Dorian Grey

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 04:08 AM

Magnesium relaxes arterial smooth muscle and there are reports of a modest effect on BP.  

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....cles/PMC295901/

 

Magnesium Citrate is easiest on my stomach.  I can't take more than 200mg at a time without getting loose bowels, so moderation is wise.  Low doses twice a day might be better than single large doses.  

 

Fresh brewed green tea has personally lowered my BP to a point where I sometimes get a down-rush standing up too quickly from a relaxed/seated position, even several hours after drinking it.  Don't know if the extract/supplement might be missing a key ingredient, but a little experiment swapping real green tea for the GTE for a week might be in order.  You might not want to take both the extract and tea every day as large doses of GTE can stress the liver.  

 

Many BP patients are admonished to control their sodium, but fail to do so...  Increasing fluid throughput might be an alternate way to lower sodium if he's not restricting salt well on his own.  

 

Not much, but I hope this helps a bit.  


Edited by synesthesia, 15 February 2015 - 04:15 AM.


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#3 Dolph

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 08:13 AM

Moxonidine seems like a very strange choice for a first line, single active ingredient hypertension drug to me. Do you know why the doc prescribed this one and not an ACE-inhibitor, angiotensin blocker, beta-blocker, a diuretic, or a combination of those?

 

Light-salt (50% potassium) is something I would add, but only if not on a potassium sparing diuretic.



#4 zwentibold

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 10:28 AM

Thanks for your posts. I think the doc first prescriped some other drugs before, but the side effects were too strong and they had to change. These drugs were:

 

1. Candesartan

2. Valsartan

3. Ramipril

 

Now he takes these green tea pills: http://www.amazon.co...een tea extract

 

I will check about your ideas. Thank you!


Edited by zwentibold, 15 February 2015 - 10:34 AM.


#5 timar

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 06:05 PM

Anthocyanine-rich fruit or hibiscus extracts (tea, juice) and whole, ground flax seeds are the most potent single non-pharmacological interventions.

 

See the 10-step nutritional program against high blood pressure I posted here. That was, however, before I became aware of a study showing the blood pressure lowering effect of flax seeds, which is covered in this recent video from nutritionfacts.org (never mind the vegan propaganda, it has some reliable information ;))

 

I wrote a disqus comment there, bringing up the equally powerful potential of anthocyanins:

 

 

Dr. Greger has also done several videos on the blood pressure lowering effect of hibiscus. Black chockeberries, which are among the most concentrated sources of anthocyanins in Nature (but also contain a fair amount of other polyphenols), have been shown to have a similar or even more powerful effect on blood pressure. Remarkably, both an open trial in patiens with metabolic syndrome as well as a double-blind trial in patients already receiving a statin drug have shown not only a significant drop in blood pressure but also marked improvments in a whole host of other important risk markers (LDL, triglycerides, hsCRP - you name it).

Although I am not a medical doctor, I regularly give dietary advice to people with hypertension, which is based on a predominantly (but not exclusively) plant-based, sodium-reduced, whole food diet, but also "prescribes" these most potent specific dietary interventions. Everyone that I counseled and from which I received some feedback has seen marked improvements. In one case, a middle-aged woman with familial hypertension, who took large doses of three different anti-hypertensive medications and still regularly had a systolic blood pressure in the 150s wrote to me that after three months of religiously following my advice (which included 30g of milled flax seeds daily, 50ml aronia juice, a cup of hibiscus tea and a magnesium supplement), she was able to reduce her medication to the minimum dose of only one drug and safely maintain her systolic blood pressure in the 120s or below.

 

 


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#6 Dolph

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 06:14 PM

Yes, anthocyanines are interesting... If considering hibiscus tea be aware about its very high acidity and the resulting risk of tooth enamel erosion. 



#7 timar

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 06:56 PM

Tooth decay seems preferable to stroke or heart failure though ;)

 

Seriously, just avoid brushing your teeth or putting abrasive stuff into your mouth for a half an hour after drinking hibiscus tea. That should go a long way in protecting your teeth from the acidity. Or drink chokeberry or elderberry juice instead, which have a much higher concentration of anthocyanins and lower acidity.



#8 Dolph

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 07:04 PM

 

Seriously, just avoid brushing your teeth or putting abrasive stuff into your mouth for a half an hour after drinking hibiscus tea. That should go a long way in protecting your teeth from the acidity. 

 

Not really. My front teeth became pretty transluscent at the edges after several months of my hibiscus experiment. m(

My dentist suggested using elmex gelee for a few weeks straight to try to remineralize the enamel (worked pretty well by the way...), laughing when I explained him how I did this to my teeth. He said normally he sees this only in children drinking soda exclusively.

 

Acid is by the way perfectly enough to cause erosion. Brushing etc. just makes it worse. http://en.wikipedia....ki/Acid_erosion



#9 timar

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 07:46 PM

Damn, and I thought avoiding tooth brushing would render me immune to tooth decay ;)

 

How much hibiscus tea did you drink. btw? Have you tried substituting aronia juice or something else for the hibiscus?


Edited by timar, 15 February 2015 - 07:50 PM.


#10 Dolph

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 07:55 PM

I used a pretty concentrated concoction made of three teabags steeped in ~200ml of water for ~20 minutes three times a day during this period. 

 

At the moment I eat Arroz com feijão based on black beans and thai rice every single day at least once. They (black beans) are also pretty rich in anthocyanins but given that the hibiscus didn't do much for my BP this is rather an added bonus.

On the other hand I have the best lipid profile I have ever had right now (LDL 61mg/dl, HDL 58 mg/dl) and think it might be a consequence of the polyphenols and/or the specific soluble fibre in these beans... But that's rather a guess, of course. I admit that I eat it because it's damn tasty and I can't seem to get tired of it.


Edited by Dolph, 15 February 2015 - 08:06 PM.


#11 timar

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 08:15 PM

Well, I'm not surprised that it didn't do much for you, as the effect is usually the larger the higher the blood pressure and yours was quite acceptable to begin with. The acidity from that concentrated brew must have been quite hefty indeed.

 

I agree that some of the most basic traditional dishes are also the most healthy and tasty. To bring it to the boil, so to speak, you could use black rice instead of the thai rice. But I guess that would come out a bit too black-on-black :ph34r:

 

 


Edited by timar, 15 February 2015 - 08:17 PM.


#12 Dolph

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 08:18 PM

Yes, would probably look a little morbid. ^^

But you won't be surprised that I have this one on hand, too. Really love it with white fish.  :laugh:

 

EDIT/ Sorry for completely highjacking this thread.  :ph34r:


Edited by Dolph, 15 February 2015 - 08:19 PM.


#13 timar

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 08:27 PM

Trying to eat healthy can really turn you into a goth!

 

(I'm sorry too. Let's liberate the thread now by keeping quit :sleep:)

 

 



#14 zwentibold

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 09:02 PM

Thanks for the information. Some questions about that:

 

- is there a hibiscus-supplement (pill?) available or only tea? If tea, could you recommend a certain brand (maybe from Amazon?).

- my dad takes the Centrum50+ multivitamins, but they contain iron (2,1mg/d). Are there any other multivitamins you would recommend without iron?

 

 

Thank you guys.



#15 rubegoldberg

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 10:17 PM

Part Two of a Five-Part Series on Heart Health
 
“Epidemiological, experimental and clinical studies suggest that magnesium deficiency (i.e., hypomagnesemia) plays a role in the pathogenesis of hypertension.”
...
“One of the better studied supplements for maintaining blood pressure already within the normal range is CoQ10,” she says. The ubiquinol form of CoQ10 has been found, at potencies of 100–200 mg per day, to counteract the oxidative stress that can constrict blood vessels, reduce nitric oxide levels, and thus elevate blood pressure.
...
Murray’s Encyclopedia details the benefits of arginine for blood pressure. This amino acid plays a key role in nitric oxide production, and may produce meaningful decreases in systolic blood pressure, particularly, research suggests, in younger people with hypertension.
...
 “Several clinical studies using aged garlic extract (AGE) have been shown to reduce multiple risk factors of heart disease, including elevated blood pressure, cholesterol, homocysteine and atherosclerosis...”
...
Nattokinase is an enzyme derived from fermented soybeans that brings blood-thinning capabilities to the table. In the mid-1990s, Levy says, Japanese researchers at Miyazaki Medical College and Kurashiki University looked into nattokinase’s effect on blood pressure. Their experiments revealed that nattokinase naturally inhibits ACE, kicking out one leg of the renin/angiotensin/aldosterone system that can elevate blood pressure when over-stimulated.
...
“Certain herbs,” Levy also notes, “such as hawthorn berry and cayenne pepper have been shown to benefit circulation.”
...
“Mild” herbs with blood pressure-lowering effects include ju hua or Chinese chrysanthemum flower, motherwort, linden flower (suitable for tea) and hibiscus (another tea herb)... Eucommia bark and Dan shen (Salvia miltiorrhiza), both Chinese herbs, are also good for blood pressure, according to Winston. 
...
In addition, others such as parsley leaf, celery seed and golden rod provide the same fluid-reducing benefits, and work well in combination with herbs that affect blood pressure more directly, according to Winston. Pande adds that decaffeinated green tea is an effective aid for blood pressure, as are guggulipid, policosanol and tulsi.
...
Four supplements are at the top of Bowden’s list for supporting blood pressure in a healthy range, and omega-3s, cocoa flavanols (more on these in a moment) and magnesium are the first three. “Fourth is a newcomer to the list, which has been shown in some very good research to be effective at lowering blood pressure: olive leaf complex,” he says. Olive leaf is included among the “strong” herbs that Winston cites.
...
In what the researchers classified as short-term trials, a median vitamin C dose of 500 mg/day resulted in significant blood pressure reductions, with slightly larger reductions in hypertensive subjects... blood pressure levels studied here were only “minimally reduced” by vitamin C .
...
lycopene and protein now appear to hold promise for HBP sufferers, according to Sugraek MacDonald. Lycopene was identified in a review of intervention trials to significantly reduce systolic blood pressure at doses of over 25 mg daily.
...
"... After taking Pycnogenol for eight weeks, patients’ endothelial function improved significantly”
...

BloodPressureProdSide.jpg

 

 



#16 Dorian Grey

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 10:19 PM

Speaking of iron...  A little blood letting has been shown helpful for metabolic syndrome.  

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22647517

 

"SBP decreased from 148.5 ± 12.3 mmHg to 130.5 ± 11.8 mmHg in the phlebotomy group"



#17 serp777

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 02:54 AM

See if you can get his doc to prescribe clonidine. Its a great, safe drug for blood pressure. It also helps with sleep.



#18 timar

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 09:54 AM

- is there a hibiscus-supplement (pill?) available or only tea? If tea, could you recommend a certain brand (maybe from Amazon?).

 

No idea. I just buy the cheap store brand tea bags. I don't think that there are big differences in quality, actually. The color of the tea tells you all about the efficacy - the more intense, the more anthocyanins the tea contains.

 

 

- my dad takes the Centrum50+ multivitamins, but they contain iron (2,1mg/d). Are there any other multivitamins you would recommend without iron?

 

AFAIK Centrum Silver for men shouldn't contain any iron, at least not the recent formula. Anyway, that's a rather low dose, so it would be acceptable to just use them up and then get the formula without iron. I'd recommend LEFs Two-per-Day at 1/2 dose (that's one per day), though. Much superior to the Centrum and about the same price.
 



#19 Dolph

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 09:57 AM

I wouldn't break my head over iron too much before checking his actual ferritin level. Although men generally have higher ferritin then women, especially on high fibre/high polyphenol diets men can have very low ferritin, too...


Edited by Dolph, 16 February 2015 - 09:58 AM.


#20 timar

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 10:24 AM

True, my ferritin is on the lowish side too, probably due to my mostly vegetarian, high-polyphenol diet. Anyway, I think every men with metabolic syndrome risk factors ought to have his ferritin level tested.  A genetic tendency for hemochromatosis combined with a life-long diet of red meat can cause metabolic havoc. Regular blood donation and dietary changes work wonders in those cases.



#21 Dolph

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 10:30 AM

The problem is that with metabolic syndrome present ferritin primarily measures hepatic inflammation. Not sure if reducing dietary iron in this case will do anything to improve this...



#22 timar

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 10:44 AM

Cause and effect are not mutually exclusive - that's what we call a vicious cycle...

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22647517



#23 MarcD

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 08:56 PM

I'm fine with 80mg telmisartan + 4mg doxazosin, 4g arginine and 3g citrulline... no other supps at the moment. but Niagen also lowered my blood pressure. 



#24 zwentibold

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 09:02 PM

Btw, is there any risk that his current medication could worsen his situation? Maybe its just a coincidence, but in the past two weeks he had about 2 crises with blood pressures up to 210. I really have no idea what could cause this and there are no visible external influences. So we are all really concerned about this.



#25 zwentibold

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 07:49 AM

News: my dad was in the clinic for some testing and he was lucky to get into one of the best cardiologies in Germany. After some test (MRT, cardiac catheterization,...) we know now, that his heart is healthy, kidneys as well. Like no plaques or stenosis. They say his high blood pressure is either genetics or psychosomatic. So I guess we will cut back a little of the supplements, maybe hawthorn, and find some psychologist, maybe this could help him...



#26 timar

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 08:18 AM

Remember though that this diagnosis doesn't render the hypertension itself less dangerous!

 

A psychologist may help if he suffers from a generalized anxiety disorder causing chronic stress. Otherwise a combination of regular physical exercise, mindfulness meditation and breathing exercise (e.g. yoga, Feldenkrais) would be a more promising approach that is likely to produce stronger improvements much sooner.

 

Also don't forget that the supplements/nutritional interventions I mentioned are particularly powerful for treating stress-related hypertension. Have you put him on aronia/hibiskus yet? I bet it will make a marked difference.



#27 Dolph

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 08:19 AM

I also think you misunderstood the statement of the doctors. Essential hypertension might(!) have a psychological component (I don't think this is a major problem in most cases...) but that doesn't render aggressive treatment unnecessary.



#28 zwentibold

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 09:34 AM

Well thats true, the hypertension is still there and we will keep most suppelements (like DHA, curcumin, etc...). The hibiskus seems very promising and we will try that ofc, but most people in my family think that my dads job is the real cause for the problems (hypertension, sleeping disorder). It might be very difficult to get a solution for this, but this is not about supplements anymore. Yoga etc would be very good, but my dad is always "active" and its very hard for him to slow down a bit and get the stress away...



#29 timar

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 01:45 PM

Huh? Do you really think that when you have a hypothesis about the "real cause" of his hypertension, treatment becomes any less important?

 

His stressful job may be to blame, his attitude towards life, or his genes - almost certainly it is a combination of all three factors. Anyway, one cannot easily change his own nature, so it remains paramount to bring the blood pressure down by the means of medication, supplements, diet and other simple to implement lifestyle measures.


Edited by timar, 20 February 2015 - 01:47 PM.


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#30 chipdouglas

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 10:48 PM

As far as green tea's blood pressure lowering effect, is it best to brew tea for shorter (i.e. < 3 minutes) or longer time (> 3 minutes) ?

My point being that time (assuming a given water temperature, i.e. 75 Celsius in the case of most sencha teas) is known to affect both caffeine and polyphenols concentration.

 

Scroll to bottom of page for a graph on caffeine release over time : http://camellia-sine.../tea-and-health

 

Most of the time, I allow my teas to brew for 3-4 minutes. That being said, I've found that this causes my resting systolic blood pressure to reach between 131 - 140 - diastolic is usually 80 or slightly less. On most days, I'll usually have 4 teas, each being ~ 200 ml. 

 

If I stop having tea, BP goes back down to ~ 120/80. 

 

 







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