27 replies to this topic

[cylon]

Confused about the difference between Turmeric and Curcumin. I'm a middle aged healthy male and have recently added  the former to my daily regimen.

 

Should I be taking both?

[adamh]

Turmeric contains curcumin, which is considered the main active ingredient. I myself take only turmeric since that way you get all related compounds rather than something chemically separated. There may be undiscovered co factors in the raw turmeric. But, there is nothing wrong with taking curcumin, its just more expensive.

[Dorian Grey]

I take both...  Turmeric has the theoretical co-factors, but curcumin content of turmeric does not reach substantially therapeutic levels.  Curcumin is expensive and doesn't contain the co-factors, but gives a therapeutic dose of the active ingredient of turmeric, curcumin.  

 

I take a cheap turmeric supplement in the morning and a enhanced absorption curcumin supplement with dinner.  The best of both worlds!  

Edited by synesthesia, 25 February 2015 - 03:38 AM.

[timar]

Turmeric, the dried rhizome, has a curcumin content of ~5%. However, due to synergies naturally present in the whole food, the curcumin is much more efficently absorbed than purified curcumin from (most) supplements, particularly if the turmeric has been heated in some oil, like traditionally done for an Indian curry.

 

Based on turmeric, I have conceived a recipe for a "whole food supplement", creating a synergy of some of the most powerful health foods - my Polypulp.

 

It is simple to make, inexpensive and effective - backed by a lot of research, some of which I have referenced in the topic. Give it a try!

 

Edited by timar, 25 February 2015 - 10:36 AM.

[8bitmore]

Turmeric contains curcumin, which is considered the main active ingredient. I myself take only turmeric since that way you get all related compounds rather than something chemically separated. There may be undiscovered co factors in the raw turmeric. But, there is nothing wrong with taking curcumin, its just more expensive.

 

I agree with this sentiment, a lot of the "improved" curcumin variants basically starts to add back in co-factors from the turmeric that were already there to begin with before the extraction process. Also there's the risk of overdoing it with curcumin, too much of a good thing can be bad for you. Also, you can get really nice organic turmeric which goes down really well with lots of different dishes (I add it when baking as well)

[xls]

There's a lot of positive studies on turmeric. They're both good for you.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....books/NBK92752/

 

edit:

Turmeric is tasty as a spice so there's no downside.

Edited by xls, 28 February 2015 - 03:23 AM.

[ta5]

Phytother Res. 2014 Apr;28(4):517-25.

Therapeutic potential of turmeric in Alzheimer's disease: curcumin or curcuminoids?

Ahmed T1, Gilani AH.

Alzheimer's disease (AD) is the most common form of dementia. There is limited choice in modern therapeutics, and drugs available have limited success with multiple side effects in addition to high cost. Hence, newer and alternate treatment options are being explored for effective and safer therapeutic targets to address AD. Turmeric possesses multiple medicinal uses including treatment for AD. Curcuminoids, a mixture of curcumin, demethoxycurcumin, and bisdemethoxycurcumin, are vital constituents of turmeric. It is generally believed that curcumin is the most important constituent of the curcuminoid mixture that contributes to the pharmacological profile of parent curcuminoid mixture or turmeric. A careful literature study reveals that the other two constituents of the curcuminoid mixture also contribute significantly to the effectiveness of curcuminoids in AD. Therefore, it is emphasized in this review that each component of the curcuminoid mixture plays a distinct role in making curcuminoid mixture useful in AD, and hence, the curcuminoid mixture represents turmeric in its medicinal value better than curcumin alone. The progress in understanding the disease etiology demands a multiple-site-targeted therapy, and the curcuminoid mixture of all components, each with different merits, makes this mixture more promising in combating the challenging disease.

KEYWORDS:

curcumin; curcuminoids; dementia; synergy; therapy; turmeric

PMID: 23873854

 

[Kalliste]

I eat mostly the roots. Sometimes the powder, sometimes roots and powder. The Turmeric roots are actually quite delicious, I'll add them to classic indian food with garlics and onions and plenty of olive oil.

Timars method is also really good.

 

I would use Curcumin-pills if I had cancer but not as long as I'm healthy.

Curcumin induces senescence of primary human cells building the vasculature in a DNA damage and ATM-independent manner.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25649709

 

By the way, sometimes when reading about Curcumin research I get a weird feeling that there might be a bit of positive group-think going on. Am I the only one who gets this feeling?

[Hepoberman]

The most comprehensive, unbiased review I've read about Tumeric, Curcumin, the research, and the brands that manufacturer the supplements was written by Dr Trutt and posted at truttmd.com:

 

Curcumin: Not all brands are created equal!

 

and then a more recent follow up post adding details about Theracurmin:

 

Curcumin update: What about Theracurmin?

 

At 26:00 - 40:00 he goes over Curcumin research in this youtube video.

 

I personally have been taking CurcuBrain, which is 400 mg of Longvida. 

 

Hep

[Kalliste]

For those who are taking the high-dose formulations, what are your thoughts about the possible toxicity? Senescent cells are ugly players. You want no more than what you get through normal aging.

[cylon]

Hepoberman.Interesting. Never heard of that brand...but the price???? Need to do more research at first glance sounds like snake oil to me. Going thru his blog. What is the association with Vitamin Research Products?  I wish the consumerlabs site was more comprehensive... I prefer the approach of a standardized set of tests and then rating by price

Edited by cylon, 28 February 2015 - 02:22 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Curcumin is better for brushing your teeth, as its taste isn't as strong.

[stan08]

The most comprehensive, unbiased review I've read about Tumeric, Curcumin, the research, and the brands that manufacturer the supplements was written by Dr Trutt and posted at truttmd.com:

Curcumin: Not all brands are created equal!

and then a more recent follow up post adding details about Theracurmin:

Curcumin update: What about Theracurmin?

At 26:00 - 40:00 he goes over Curcumin research in this youtube video.

I personally have been taking CurcuBrain, which is 400 mg of Longvida.

Hep

How many do you take each day (with or without food)? I've been taking one longvida capsule with breakfast and dinner. Have you tried the bcm-95 extract? Curious as to how it compares to the longvida extract.

[timar]

The most comprehensive, unbiased review I've read about Tumeric, Curcumin, the research, and the brands that manufacturer the supplements was written by Dr Trutt and posted at truttmd.com:

 

Curcumin: Not all brands are created equal!

 

"Unbiased review"? ROFL! This is neither a scientific review, nor unbiased, but a barely concealed, poorly written advertisement for the Longvida curcurmin supplements.

Edited by timar, 28 February 2015 - 07:09 PM.

[HighDesertWizard]

I helped a friend with her multi-year struggle with Interstitial Cystitis pain by recommending Curcumin...

 

 

<< snip >>

I believe I once triggered significant and positive Epigenetic change in myself by accident...

<< snip >>

 

... my early stage CTS symptoms may have vanished in a very short time via epigenetic processes through Mega Doses of 5-Loxin - Boswellia [AKBA]. In this post, I'll provide links to studies that suggest this hypothesis is not without foundation.

<< snip >>

 

Like an increasing number of others, I believe that most Adult Onset Health Disorders, by definition, have a specific Epigenetic cause. And I mean this in very specific health disorder contexts, e.g., in my Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (CTS) experience.

• In this post, I summarize a friend’s recent experience to date, following a path generally grounded in learnings from my experience with CTS and Boswellia.
• In my next post, I will circle back around and provide the scientific study reference links that led me to believe this path might work for her.
• I’ve spent a little time imagining a framework for evaluating study evidence to help with thinking through which similar health disorder contexts might be addressed in the future with this approach. If I can get it to a point that might add value, I’ll share it.

-------------------------------------------------

I have a mid-50s, female friend who who has suffered from Interstitial Cystitis (IC) for years. Recommended changes in diet would make a difference but have been difficult to follow consistently. And periods of stress would exacerbate the pain symptoms even when the proper diet was followed. To make a long story short, based on my own experience and research I summarize in my next post, my friend decided to do her own n=1 experiment to address her IC.

• In my next post, I’ll provide the reference study evidence that explains the rationale for using the Life Extension Super BioCurcumin product.

• My friend began by taking 1 capsule a day and increased the dose over time to a maximum of 6 capsules a day over a period of 45 to 75 days.

• Before the max dose of 6 had been reached, the IC symptoms appeared to subside at lower than 6 capsules a day and then returned. A lesson of the CTS/Boswellia experience was that the symptoms might be pressed to vanish at a higher dose.

• She took 6 capsules a day for about a month.

• A few weeks ago, due to a shipping/delivery problem, she ran out of Curcumin and didn’t have product for 10 days. She experienced no IC symptoms during that time.

• Most recently, with product back in hand, she’s taking 4 capsules a day and the current strategy is to reduce that dose by 1 capsule per week for 3 weeks. The current plan is to continue to take at least 1 capsule per day indefinitely.

• Needless to say, my friend is happy to have this multi-year condition addressed, at least for now.

Feedback especially appreciated because we know of no other comparable experiment from which we might learn. All feedback, constructive or otherwise, has the potential to add value.

 

 

 

Edited by HighDesertWizard, 28 February 2015 - 08:03 PM.

[cylon]

timar, did you watch the video? I was skeptical as well but it seems he claims he has no affiliation with Longvida. If you know otherwise, please let me know.

Curious as to how it compares to the longvida extract.

 

ditto, as it's half the price!

[Galaxyshock]

Curcumin works through the cannabinoid receptors which must affect epigenetics by modulating endocannabinoid signaling.

 

The dietary polyphenols trans-resveratrol and curcumin selectively bind human CB1 cannabinoid receptors with nanomolar affinities and function as antagonists/inverse agonists.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19359525

The CB1 Receptor-Mediated Endocannabinoid Signaling and NGF: The Novel Targets of Curcumin
http://link.springer...2-0716-2#page-1

 

Other cannabinoidergic herbs: black pepper, oregano, maca, echinacea, olive (oil), raw cocoa.

I sometimes mix these in different combinations and get blissful anandamide highs, temporary mild stoned feeling even. Except maca and cocoa tend to be more stimulating.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 01 March 2015 - 10:09 AM.

[Hepoberman]

 

The most comprehensive, unbiased review I've read about Tumeric, Curcumin, the research, and the brands that manufacturer the supplements was written by Dr Trutt and posted at truttmd.com:

Curcumin: Not all brands are created equal!

and then a more recent follow up post adding details about Theracurmin:

Curcumin update: What about Theracurmin?

At 26:00 - 40:00 he goes over Curcumin research in this youtube video.

I personally have been taking CurcuBrain, which is 400 mg of Longvida.

Hep

How many do you take each day (with or without food)? I've been taking one longvida capsule with breakfast and dinner. Have you tried the bcm-95 extract? Curious as to how it compares to the longvida extract.

 

 

I take one AM and one PM with food but I skip a couple days per week. I was taking a bcm-95 form from LEF until Dr. Trutt pointed out the suspicious nature of their bio available studies. Longvida seems to be the only one with solid laboratory evidence of its efficacy. 

 

When explaining his skepticism on bcm-95, Dr. Trutt says, "Here’s why: Typically, clinical trials of “regular” curcumin show negligible plasma levels with oral dosing: at doses less than 8 to 10 grams per day, the plasma levels obtained should be very low, lower than 5ng/mL or ~0.02uM. 4,5 But this is not the case for the BCM-95 studies. Their studies show 4g of their control, the “regular” curcumin, peaking at about 250ng/g = 125ng/mL = 0.34uM/L. The Curcugel study shows 2g of “regular” curcumin peaking as high as 0.17uM/L (in Volunteer D); in other words even when they used their “regular” curcumin controls, they somehow got more than ten times the concentration usually found in other studies for “regular” curcumin. So it raises doubts about their results, both for regular curcumin and for BCM-95. Perhaps they are accidentally measuring metabolites or… perhaps something else was off. I emailed them about this and they feel certain their HPLC is calibrated well and they know what they’re doing. I don’t think they are trying to scam anyone, but the data just doesn’t make sense to me. "

 

Many brands/distributors use Longvida, Meriva, or bcm-95 as the core of their formulations. I chose NOW's Curcubrain because it cost less than most other brands but it still is one of the most expensive supplements at nearly $1 per day.  -Hep

[cylon]

Thanks. Came across another interesting comparison

http://www.amazon.ca...s/dp/B004ZLM986

(see 1st review)

 

Now's Circubrain only contains only 80 mgs curcuminoid per capsule compared with 100mgs for the Vitamin Research Product but Circubrain is also almost half the cost!

 

That particular review tends to rate other brands much higher though

 

Innovix Labs High Absorption Curcumin, Nutrigold Turmeric Curcumin Gold, Doctor's Best Curcumin C3 Complex with BioPerine, Viva Labs Curcumin C3® (Turmeric) w/ Bioperine, and Swanson Superior Herbs Curcumin Complex five stars.

 

A littlemore research is needed but certainly I'm better off with any of these than a regular Turmeric supplement? I seem to recall reading that Longvida (and bcm-95) are supposed to cross the blood brain barrier better than other forms...

[Kalliste]

This is a good write up from Life Enhancement that put into word some of my subconscious suspicions regarding the consumption of Turmeric-roots. They seem to imply that you could buy their Turmeric extract but the article mostly read as an excellent commercial for Turmeric roots which can be found in Indian and Asian stores.

I am going to increase my consumption of these roots after something of a hiatus now.

 

 

Comparison of Efficacy of Turmeric and Curcumin 
in Immunological Measures and Gene Regulation

We have long been interested in assessing the differences between ingesting healthful substances as parts of a whole food or an herb as compared to taking them as an individual ingredient.

A new paper¹ examined the comparative efficacy of extract of turmeric rhizome (ETE, prepared as an ethanolic extract of raw turmeric) as compared to commercially obtained curcumin, the yellow component of turmeric that has been widely studied for beneficial effects (such as antioxidant, neuroprotection, memory enhancement, cancer preventive, and anti-inflammatory). There has been little published comparing the effects of turmeric and curcumin, so we were especially interested in the results. The two were compared for immunostimulatory, anti-inflammatory, and antioxidant properties in a mouse model. In addition they were compared for gene expression of perforin (a pore forming protein important in T-cell mediated cytoxicity), IL-2, IL-6, TNF (a powerful inflammatory cytokine), and iNOS (the inducible form of nitric oxide synthase, which plays an important role in many inflammatory conditions).

Results included: Turmeric extract “caused a heightened expression of perforin, the effector molecule to carry out T-cell mediated immunity. It was almost double to that with curcumin which could not elicit the response beyond controls.” The better efficacy of turmeric extract for immunostimulation “was also observed when we measured the expression of concerned gemes, such as IL-2, IL-6 and perforin in assay ...” In fact, “[f]or the expression of IL-2, IL-6 and [as mentioned in quote above] perforin curcumin could not elicit response beyond controls.” “This seems notable to establish superiority of ETE in induction of certain immunologically important genes over curcumin.”

Both ETE and curcumin significantly downregulated the inflammatory cytokine TNF-alpha expression in mouse splenic T-cells.

The foot pads of mice were injected with an inflammatory agent, 2,4-dinitrofluorobenzene, to induce swelling and redness. Turmeric extract was found to inhibit generation of superoxide and hydrogen peroxide in cells from these mice significantly more effectively than curcumin, while the turmeric extract and curcumin inhibited hydroxyl radicals equivalently. “The percentage of inhibition in [superoxide] generation with ETE treatment was almost double to that of curcumin treated ones. The ETE also could inhibit [copper chloride]-ascorbate derived hydrogen peroxide generation in murine [mouse] lymphocytes by higher percentage over control; whereas the percentage of inhibition with curcumin treatment was even lower than the alcohol control.” “Thus, ETE is found to be effective antioxidant, at times better than curcumin.”

Photographs of mouse paws showed the results of the delayed hypersensitivity reaction induced by the 2,4-dinitrofluorobenzene. The paws of the animals receiving turmeric extract looked less swollen than those that received curcumin.

The results of this study provide some support for what the authors call “the general belief with Ayurvedic practioners” that a crude extract of turmeric is more effective than the purified compound curcumin in curing human ailments. Of course, the “general belief” of anyone is only anecdotal until supported by hard data.

The authors also note that “it is an age old common practice in India to have oral uptake of 5–10 g of turmeric rhizome with molasses in the morning in empty stomach.” Too bad they didn’t mention what it is that people get or expect to get from this supplementation.

A separate study² published the same year as the one above reported findings on comparative antioxidant capacities of curcumin and extract of Curcuma longa (turmeric). BecauseCurcuma longa has a content of 31.9% curcumin and the purity of their curcumin standard was 70%, the authors “normalized the results of antioxidant capacity to the curcumin content.” “The results expressed in this way showed the increased antioxidant activity of curcumin in C. longa extract in comparison to that in the curcumin standard in DPPH- and ABTS-scavenging assays, peroxidation of DOPC liposomes and FRAP assay. These results emphasize the role of synergistic effects of other constituents of C. longa extract on the antioxidant activity of curcumin.

However, the authors note, the curcumin standard they used was only 70% pure, with other curcuminoids in the remaining 30%. Thus, they recalculated the results on the basis of total curcuminoid content and found similar antioxidant results for turmeric extract and the curcumin standard in the ABTS test. What this suggests to us is that pure curcumin (which, unlike the curcumin “standard” used in this study, wouldn’t include other curcuminoids found in turmeric) would be, in the tests as listed above, less effective than turmeric. However, the curcumin standard did have much higher antioxidant activity than the extract in a model of enzymatic lipid peroxidation (LOX catalyzed linoleic acid hydroperoxide formation).

Another paper,³ this one published in 2002, adds to the data by reporting that dietary supplementation with an antioxidant-rich hydroalcoholic extract of the curcuma rhizome (turmeric) in human subjects resulted in a decrease in total blood lipid peroxides as well a decrease in HDL and LDL-lipid peroxidation.

They report³ that these anti-atherogenic effects were accompanied by a turmeric antioxidant-induced normalization of the plasma levels of fibrinogen (a pro-clotting factor) and the apoB/apoA ratio, suggesting additional anti-atherogenic effects.

There wasn’t a direct comparison of the effects of curcumin and turmeric in this paper, however, but the authors’ review of the literature (some of the research was carried out by the authors and others at their lab) suggests that “the main antioxidant from Curcuma, i.e., curcumin or 1,7-bis-(-4-hydroxy- 3-methoxyphenyl)-1,6-heptadiene-2,5-dione, as well as a hydro-alcoholic extract of the dry Curcuma rhizome are powerful anti-inflammatory, immunomodulating, tumor-preventing and antiatherogenic drugs [sic] suitable for clinical testing in order to assess their probable therapeutic potential.” “The curcuma antioxidants might be especially useful as antiatherogenic agents in those processes linked to a marked increase in blood lipid peroxidation such as myocardial infarction, diabetes, and dislipemias in women after menopause.”

Hopefully, we will see more research comparing the effects of the complex mixture of constituents in turmeric to that of curcumin to help untangle these complex comparisons. The difficulty of attributing the source of benefits is one reason that researchers prefer to study a single entity rather than mixtures, yet mixtures are potentially sources of benefits beyond that of a single component. The FDA compounds the problem of getting information on mixtures by refusing to accept any data on beneficial results derived from mixtures in the determination of qualified health claims for dietary supplements and foods on the basis that it is unclear what is responsible for the benefits. What we are likely to see in further detailed comparisons of turmeric and curcumin, we think, is differences in efficacy that are dependent upon what biochemical processes are being examined, ie. sometimes turmeric may be more efficacious and other times curcumin may.

On the basis of the limited information currently available, we prefer to supplement with turmeric root powder to get the full spectrum of curcuminoids as compared to curcumin alone. For optimal effects, we suggest taking powdered turmeric with meals. We have a glass of wine with lunch and dinner (Durk) or just with dinner (Sandy), and the wine, acting as a delightful hydroalcoholic extracting agent, may further the beneficial effects of turmeric as well as providing benefits of its own (such as increasing HDL and decreasing insulin resistance).

References

1. Chakravarty et al. Comparison of efficacy and turmeric and commercial curcumin in immunological functions and gene regulation. Int J Pharmacol 5(6):333-45 (2009).
2. Rackova et al. Comparative study of two natural antioxidants, curcumin and Curcuma longa extract. J Food Nutr Res 48(3):148-52 (2009).
3. Miquel et al. The curcuma antioxidants: pharmacological effects and prospects for future clinical use. A review. Arch Gerontol Geriatr 34:37-46 (2002).

 

[AlexCanada]

Tumeric makes my eyes sting badly. very sensitive to watching tv. Also my vision gets bit desaturated. Blurry colors.

 

Does anyone know why this happens?  I usually feel some calm dullness from it on it's own. But can enhance the effects of stimulants. 

 

 

[dazed1]

Maybe it makes something to your blood sugar?

 

Anyway, turmeric paste trumps ANY curcumin supplement ever created, do not get into the hype, cook turmeric together with coconut oil, water, black pepper (ground by you not pre-grounded) ceylon cinnamon, and ginger.....cook this for 20 mins and stir permanently on 80-100c, then put it into freezer, eat around 3-6g at day separate doses. Also at the end, when you are over with the cooking -  add the same ingredients, but not cooked, to achieve maximum and whole range benefits.

 

When heated turmeric - 12 fold increase in absorption, 3-4 anti-oxidant and free radical scavenging, the ginger gets anti radioactive properties when cooked also, which are 150 foldes stronger then the common anti-radioactive medical substances.

 

I tried,

 

Meriva

Longvida

C3 complex

 

Nothing comes EVEN close to this paste, trust me.

Edited by dazed1, 10 April 2016 - 03:01 AM.

[joelcairo]

Nothing comes close to that paste in terms of what effect?

[BobbyDick]

Anyway, turmeric paste trumps ANY curcumin supplement ever created, do not get into the hype, cook turmeric together with coconut oil, water, black pepper (ground by you not pre-grounded) ceylon cinnamon, and ginger.....cook this for 20 mins and stir permanently on 80-100c, then put it into freezer, eat around 3-6g at day separate doses. Also at the end, when you are over with the cooking -  add the same ingredients, but not cooked, to achieve maximum and whole range benefits.

 

 

Why with coconut oil?

 

MCT go directly into liver, where curcumin is broken.

[dazed1]

Nothing comes close to that paste in terms of what effect?

 

 

Anti - inflammatory, and general well being- health related feeling, pain goes away,  totally, mood goes up significantly more then even longvida - its epic.

[hallucinogen]

Could you please provide the exact weights that you use of each ingredient in your paste ?

Do you peel turmeric root ? do you always get organic ? do you puree the root in a blender prior to cooking ?

Is there a specific time you need to cook turmeric root in incease absorption ? What temperature exactly, and what is the minimum cooking time at that temperature ?

 

Does raw paste of these ingredients work better or worse ? (have you tried ?, what are differences ?)

 

Thank you

 

 

 

Nothing comes close to that paste in terms of what effect?

 

 

Anti - inflammatory, and general well being- health related feeling, pain goes away,  totally, mood goes up significantly more then even longvida - its epic.

 

 

[davis89x]

Could you please provide the exact weights that you use of each ingredient in your paste ?

Do you peel turmeric root ? do you ...

@dazed1 I am also interested in this infos.

[dazed1]

There are not exact measurements, but...1 tablespoon coconut oil, 1 tablespoon turmeric, 2 teasppons freshly ground black pepper, 1/2ablespoon ginger, 2 teaspoons cloves, 3 teaspoon rosemary, add some water as well to avoid burning the spices and cook at 100c, stir continusly until most of the water is removed, you can add 1g sea salt, and 1/4 sugar just to preserve it a bit better, keep in freezer, and take it 3x/day at start of the meals, 1 teaspoon max.

Dont forget to add the same ingredients (without) black pepper, in 1/4 of the original amount, let a bit water to stay so it can absorb the dry powders.