46 replies to this topic

[nicklesprout]

St. John's wort for depression, anhedonia and to upregulate GABA-A. It also has some empathogenic qualities through 5-ht receptor upregulation. Give it at least a couple of weeks for best effects.

how long did it take you to notice any effects? I'm on 600mg of SJW from Eclectic Institute, been about a week or so and i don't feel anything. thoughts?

[Junk Master]

SJW won't touch PAWS, IMO.  Now, I did have some luck with lessening the symptoms with--

 

http://www.swansonvi...225-mg-180-caps

 

I still think intense exercise is the best non-prescription remedy.

[AlmostEasy]

SJW won't touch PAWS, IMO.  Now, I did have some luck with lessening the symptoms with--

 

http://www.swansonvi...225-mg-180-caps

 

I still think intense exercise is the best non-prescription remedy.

 

Passion flower helped you with PAWS?  And what type of exercise?  I lift very heavily but I don't do any cardio or HIIT etc.

[Junk Master]

For me, the best exercise was cardio of no less than 45 min duration-- that seems to be the endorphin sweet spot.

 

I do think H.I.T stuff is helpful too.  

 

I also had good results from working a heavy bag for 3 five minute sessions.

 

The passion flower was combined with lemon balm and a couple other herbs.

 

Low dose SSRI would most likely be helpful as well.

 

Epsom salt baths.

 

One note of caution is after an initial 3-4 day period I found any alcohol to jump start PAWS symptoms again!  Nothing horrible, but I did notice a bad day after consuming just three drinks.

[β-Endorphin]

For me, the best exercise was cardio of no less than 45 min duration-- that seems to be the endorphin sweet spot.

 

I do think H.I.T stuff is helpful too.  

 

I also had good results from working a heavy bag for 3 five minute sessions.

 

The passion flower was combined with lemon balm and a couple other herbs.

 

Low dose SSRI would most likely be helpful as well.

 

Epsom salt baths.

 

One note of caution is after an initial 3-4 day period I found any alcohol to jump start PAWS symptoms again!  Nothing horrible, but I did notice a bad day after consuming just three drinks.

If you're looking for enhancement of endorphin release, enkephalinase inhibitors could be the way to go. D-phenylalanine is the first one to come to mind, though I'm sure there are probably others out there.

You might also look into upping dietary protein intake or just taking straight protein powder itself, as these act as precursors to most opioid peptides in the body(including endorphins).

 

Vitamin B1 could also be of use, as it acts as the main cofactor for the synthesis of acetylcholine and GABA. So It might be able to increase GABA synthesis and release with little effect on glutamate levels(High glutamate levels seem to be responsible for Alcohol/benzo hangovers, so its not a stretch to believe they might be involved in Benzo PAWS)

 

If your looking to enhnace serotonin, maybe a serotonin precursor would be a better choice than an SSRI. L-tryptophan would be the safest one. Of course incorporating Vitamin B6 and B3(Cofactor for synthesis of Serotonin and other stuff) into your stack would also be helpful.

[Junk Master]

Great post!  I've always wanted to try low dose naltrexone at night in combination with d-phenylalanine on an empty stomach pre-aerobic exercise.

 

I find d-phenylalanine doesn't do anything for me alone.  Though, I do start every day with 23 grams of some variety of protein (rotated sources) within 20 minutes of waking up.

 

I'm a fan of L-Tryptophan and L-Theanine, but I wouldn't say either has anything approaching a "drug-like" effect on me-- meaning if I'm really feeling the PAWS rat chewing it's way out of my stomach, they aren't going cut it.

 

Frankly, a low dose of Lexapro isn't either.

 

Good luck to everyone facing any extended anxiety issues!  Know you are not alone and keep searching for something that works for you.  It can get better!

[AlexCanada]

How might Gabapetin effect benzo withdrawl? I notice gabapentin auro has astonishing anti-anx effects + anti-dep effects and induces positivity in the short term but I pay for it 20+ hours later with some strong hangovers. Even if I use 100mg doses. 

 

Unfortunately without gabapentin my days are just dreadful and/or apathetic usually. if it wasn't for the hangovers I'd take gabapentin very consistently. it even has some positive adrenaline effects unlike the anxiety kind from Vyvanse, i feel more excited about things but without the negatives of stimulants. 

 

I been down to 1.2mg valium, few months ago I was at 1.7mg. It's progressively more difficult unless other factors are at play. 3 years ago I was at 5mg+.  These may seem like small doses but I am very sensitive to meds.  negativity, irritability, cold body chills, lot of intense hunger sensations (may relate to hypoglycemia), and generally bit dysphoric mood keeps creeping up on me aside from very strong anhedonia and poor motivation. 

 

 

Also how may pregnenolone effect benzo withdrawl? It is a gaba antagnonist but i enjoyed taking it sometimes because it would help me feel more empathy and kindness at times. I am Testosterone and cortisol deficient after all. I have taken pregnenolone in about 9+ days because oral form is inconsistent. sometimes i felt better, sometimes worse, and it recycles itself in the body for over a week. sometimes i'd very noticably feel it days later.

 

I ordered some sups/nootropics in the mail so hopefully something can help soon. Tongkat Ali for Testosterone is among them. 

Edited by AlexCanada, 25 April 2015 - 12:34 PM.

[nicklesprout]

I think you may should try high dose niacin or niacinamide if you haven't yet. Google it. When it works for me, it really helped.

[AlexCanada]

I think you may should try high dose niacin or niacinamide if you haven't yet. Google it. When it works for me, it really helped.

 

I have actually at various times. Problem i have with niacin is that it felt so inconsistent. Sometimes I would have a strong flush within 30 minutes which would last 1-2 hours. During this time I'd feel sleepyyy and slow minded but then when the flush subsided I would feel remarkably better. Much more positive mood and a much easier ability to think. Thoughts would just come so freely compared to normal. 

 

But sometimes I would feel a low grade flush and dullness/apathy for upwards of 20+++ hours. Such as when I tried it over a week ago. I just felt so bland. After taking some milk thistle 800mg tincture something occurred and it felt like the flush was over and I had a decent morning where I was able to react to things with more life in me,  though gabapentin auro may have been part of it as well. 

 

Unfortunately I have no idea how to make the benefits of niacin more predictable. What are the effects on blood sugar btw?

 

I was fortunate last year to have a solid month where Niacin was helping me quite a bit but half the time I felt so tireddd and out of it during flush periods. Some of my absolute best moods were when flush was over and something just aligned correctly. The most pro-social, friendly, and fun loving moods. Sometimes it felt like it was putting me in a bit of a hyper state.  It was really something and normally I am very introverted.  This was sometimes when I took it in combination with Vyvanse but I am trying to stay away from stims right now.   I do have the negative symptoms of schizophrenia and Niacin supposedly has benefits towards that area. 

 

 

Are there any tips for dosing?  I used to have it in capsules and just take it out but ran out and was then using tablet form. Seemed bit less effective but maybe coincidence. Hard to remember. 

Edited by AlexCanada, 25 April 2015 - 06:55 PM.

[nicklesprout]

i took up to 5g of niacinamide and up to 4 or 4.5g of niacin (in 3x daily doses). when it worked, it felt good like you say, but it wasn't consistently helping. not sure why. could have to do with methylation as niacin steals methyl donors from my understanding. i really have no clue though.Gabapentin didn't help too much with my withdrawal, it did some times when i was on a high dose but it pooped out on me too. some people like blue lotus. there is a website called mind and mood or something like that that sells it.

[AlexCanada]

 

I seriously doubt if any non-pharmaceutical option is any more effective than a temporary palliative.  That's not to belittle any protocol that eases in any way the suffering from PAWS, but only that there's no substitute for time.

 

I, myself am interested in NSI-189 combined with daily CBT treatments and meditation, plus H.I.T exercise.  With the H.I.T I find C60 is quite effective at suppressing DOMS and speeding recovery.  Again, this is something I rotate.

 

 

Bacopa has been shown to upregulate GABA receptors in mice.  It has also been shown to be as effective as pharmaceuticals for depression in human trials in India.

 

As far as exercise; I have found that TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) and heavy resistance training puts me in a great mood and has almost completely ameliorated any withdrawal symptoms associated with my BZD taper.

 

Bacopa worked for me previously, and vistaril (hydroxyzine) works splendidly as well for anxiolysis, insomnia, and SSRI/SSNRI discontinuation syndrome.

 

 

if only i could be so lucky. finding a decent doctor willing to prescribe testosterone in markham ontario canada is a nightmare. i am trying to find a decent toronto doctor. one who isn't part of one of those special clinics where I have to pay extra to get in. i can hardly afford such a thing.   my testosterone levels are through the floor. 

 

Testosterone Total:   2.3 nmol/L               range:    8 - 32

SHBG  34 nmol/L                      range:   11-78

Testosterone, Bioavailable (calc):     1.0 nmol/L         range:  4-17

Estradiol:           <37    pmol/L                 range:   40-162 

 

 

maybe i try more cordyceps.  there is a urologist i am suppossed to see but i been waiting 2 months and he hasnt' so much as called. i'm sick of it. i don't even have an appointment. i'm so tired of being in this miserable state. i had such a bad experience with the past two endocronologists who refused testosterone treatment that i don't know if i should rebook any appointments with them or if they would even bother to care. when they looked at my results they weren't as bad as they are now. Not even close. My Total testosterone for instance was 10 rather than 2.3. 

 

my brain fog is so heavy and it's difficult to know what steps to take right now. out of desperation maybe i will go for one of those fancy clinics. i'm not sure. 

[sensei]

 

if only i could be so lucky. finding a decent doctor willing to prescribe testosterone in markham ontario canada is a nightmare. i am trying to find a decent toronto doctor. one who isn't part of one of those special clinics where I have to pay extra to get in. i can hardly afford such a thing.   my testosterone levels are through the floor. 

 

Testosterone Total:   2.3 nmol/L               range:    8 - 32

SHBG  34 nmol/L                      range:   11-78

Testosterone, Bioavailable (calc):     1.0 nmol/L         range:  4-17

Estradiol:           <37    pmol/L                 range:   40-162 

 

 

maybe i try more cordyceps.  there is a urologist i am suppossed to see but i been waiting 2 months and he hasnt' so much as called. i'm sick of it. i don't even have an appointment. i'm so tired of being in this miserable state. i had such a bad experience with the past two endocronologists who refused testosterone treatment that i don't know if i should rebook any appointments with them or if they would even bother to care. when they looked at my results they weren't as bad as they are now. Not even close. My Total testosterone for instance was 10 rather than 2.3. 

 

my brain fog is so heavy and it's difficult to know what steps to take right now. out of desperation maybe i will go for one of those fancy clinics. i'm not sure. 

 

 

Cordyceps won't help -- herbal testosterone boosters are rubbish.

 

Your levels are so low you are clinically hypogonadal and both free and total are below the reference range  -- medically TRT is warranted a regular general practitioner can prescribe Testosterone

 

I get a 3 month supply of cream 10% testosterone by weight for $100 US, from a compounding pharmacy

[AlexCanada]

 

 

if only i could be so lucky. finding a decent doctor willing to prescribe testosterone in markham ontario canada is a nightmare. i am trying to find a decent toronto doctor. one who isn't part of one of those special clinics where I have to pay extra to get in. i can hardly afford such a thing.   my testosterone levels are through the floor. 

 

Testosterone Total:   2.3 nmol/L               range:    8 - 32

SHBG  34 nmol/L                      range:   11-78

Testosterone, Bioavailable (calc):     1.0 nmol/L         range:  4-17

Estradiol:           <37    pmol/L                 range:   40-162 

 

 

maybe i try more cordyceps.  there is a urologist i am suppossed to see but i been waiting 2 months and he hasnt' so much as called. i'm sick of it. i don't even have an appointment. i'm so tired of being in this miserable state. i had such a bad experience with the past two endocronologists who refused testosterone treatment that i don't know if i should rebook any appointments with them or if they would even bother to care. when they looked at my results they weren't as bad as they are now. Not even close. My Total testosterone for instance was 10 rather than 2.3. 

 

my brain fog is so heavy and it's difficult to know what steps to take right now. out of desperation maybe i will go for one of those fancy clinics. i'm not sure. 

 

 

Cordyceps won't help -- herbal testosterone boosters are rubbish.

 

Your levels are so low you are clinically hypogonadal and both free and total are below the reference range  -- medically TRT is warranted a regular general practitioner can prescribe Testosterone

 

I get a 3 month supply of cream 10% testosterone by weight for $100 US, from a compounding pharmacy

 

 

Hopefully i can handle it and make it to walk-in clinic tomorrow. I don't know. My stress response to dealing with ''doctors'' sends me into a horrible state of fear. gabapentin may allow me to handle it as it has helped me make some postings today and be more open to communicating with people.    

 

I am in canada though and general health care appointments are free. And this could mean that doctors are less willing to help. they are absolutely soulless here for the most part unfortunately. 

 

i will print out my tests and maybe try tomorrow. i don't know. i'll see if i can handle it. 

 

Those compounding pharmacies... what is their relevance? Do they specialize in hormone treatments?  

 

Any general tips on what I may ask or request of the doctor?  hopefully my brain fog wont be too intense tomorrow.   My goal is that if he/she is unwilling to prescribe anything then for me to try to get a referral.   my own family doctor i know is unwilling to touch hormones so i have to see someone else. 

[sensei]

 

 

 

if only i could be so lucky. finding a decent doctor willing to prescribe testosterone in markham ontario canada is a nightmare. i am trying to find a decent toronto doctor. one who isn't part of one of those special clinics where I have to pay extra to get in. i can hardly afford such a thing.   my testosterone levels are through the floor. 

 

Testosterone Total:   2.3 nmol/L               range:    8 - 32

SHBG  34 nmol/L                      range:   11-78

Testosterone, Bioavailable (calc):     1.0 nmol/L         range:  4-17

Estradiol:           <37    pmol/L                 range:   40-162 

 

 

maybe i try more cordyceps.  there is a urologist i am suppossed to see but i been waiting 2 months and he hasnt' so much as called. i'm sick of it. i don't even have an appointment. i'm so tired of being in this miserable state. i had such a bad experience with the past two endocronologists who refused testosterone treatment that i don't know if i should rebook any appointments with them or if they would even bother to care. when they looked at my results they weren't as bad as they are now. Not even close. My Total testosterone for instance was 10 rather than 2.3. 

 

my brain fog is so heavy and it's difficult to know what steps to take right now. out of desperation maybe i will go for one of those fancy clinics. i'm not sure. 

 

 

Cordyceps won't help -- herbal testosterone boosters are rubbish.

 

Your levels are so low you are clinically hypogonadal and both free and total are below the reference range  -- medically TRT is warranted a regular general practitioner can prescribe Testosterone

 

I get a 3 month supply of cream 10% testosterone by weight for $100 US, from a compounding pharmacy

 

 

Hopefully i can handle it and make it to walk-in clinic tomorrow. I don't know. My stress response to dealing with ''doctors'' sends me into a horrible state of fear. gabapentin may allow me to handle it as it has helped me make some postings today and be more open to communicating with people.    

 

I am in canada though and general health care appointments are free. And this could mean that doctors are less willing to help. they are absolutely soulless here for the most part unfortunately. 

 

i will print out my tests and maybe try tomorrow. i don't know. i'll see if i can handle it. 

 

Those compounding pharmacies... what is their relevance? Do they specialize in hormone treatments?  

 

Any general tips on what I may ask or request of the doctor?  hopefully my brain fog wont be too intense tomorrow.   My goal is that if he/she is unwilling to prescribe anything then for me to try to get a referral.   my own family doctor i know is unwilling to touch hormones so i have to see someone else. 

 

I don't know how it works in Canada, but since you are lower than the lowest reference range for total and free (bio available) Testosterone -- you should be able to get a prescription

[AlexCanada]

 

 

if only i could be so lucky. finding a decent doctor willing to prescribe testosterone in markham ontario canada is a nightmare. i am trying to find a decent toronto doctor. one who isn't part of one of those special clinics where I have to pay extra to get in. i can hardly afford such a thing.   my testosterone levels are through the floor. 

 

Testosterone Total:   2.3 nmol/L               range:    8 - 32

SHBG  34 nmol/L                      range:   11-78

Testosterone, Bioavailable (calc):     1.0 nmol/L         range:  4-17

Estradiol:           <37    pmol/L                 range:   40-162 

 

 

maybe i try more cordyceps.  there is a urologist i am suppossed to see but i been waiting 2 months and he hasnt' so much as called. i'm sick of it. i don't even have an appointment. i'm so tired of being in this miserable state. i had such a bad experience with the past two endocronologists who refused testosterone treatment that i don't know if i should rebook any appointments with them or if they would even bother to care. when they looked at my results they weren't as bad as they are now. Not even close. My Total testosterone for instance was 10 rather than 2.3. 

 

my brain fog is so heavy and it's difficult to know what steps to take right now. out of desperation maybe i will go for one of those fancy clinics. i'm not sure. 

 

 

Cordyceps won't help -- herbal testosterone boosters are rubbish.

 

Your levels are so low you are clinically hypogonadal and both free and total are below the reference range  -- medically TRT is warranted a regular general practitioner can prescribe Testosterone

 

I get a 3 month supply of cream 10% testosterone by weight for $100 US, from a compounding pharmacy

 

 

Would AndroForte5 cream (bioidentical) be of any real benefit? I noticed mixed reviews.  Is the bioidentical stuff worth it?

 

What kind of testosterone would be most cost effective aside from injections? If a general practitioner is willing to prescribe he/she may not know. 

 

 

 

on topic:   For PAWS I have noticed some benefit with gabapentin 100mg doses (likely higher doses would be needed for general public since I am sensitive to meds).  More functionality but unfortunately and more able to enjoy things to some small extent but still oddly feeling disconnected from the world. It does have bit of a euphoric stupor I notice. 

Edited by AlexCanada, 02 June 2015 - 03:03 AM.

[AlexCanada]

Someone stated Taineptine was good for his PAWS. I may be inclined to agree. I previously was having mixed results but I think it was just interactions with Dendrobium at the time and possible other substances.  I been having much more positive results from Taineptine now when Dendrobium and NSI-189 are out of the picture. 

 

Lower anx state, more peaceful, even bit pleasant. Combined with gabapentin it seems to have added benefit. 

 

Too bad I still have fairly poor motivation and anhedonia. Though with 50mg rhodiola added yesterday evening (with Taineptine 5mg + 100mg gabapentin) I was the most productive that I have been in weeks.  I even felt if things continue to improve that I may be able to even visit a friend this summer.    And after a really worthless day today I am finally starting to feel better after Taineptine + gabapentin dosing.  I may need to stick with this and see what happens. Cautiously optimistic!    Do need to really try to work on mental clarity. Yesterday night/morning several hours after Taineptine I noticed more clever thoughts and insights that I would not have realized under previous circumstances.  Really improved my problem solving skills. Rhodiola though was a large factor behind the motivation, I could tell due to the bit uncomfortable adren effects and feelings in my chest.  I felt burned out a bit by mid afternoon. Rhodiola residual effects lasted nearly 22 hours. I was even motivated enough to see a walk-in clinic doctor regarding fungal infection on certain parts of my body and also show them my Testosterone results. For me that was pretty big as I normally feel very defeated at the mere thought of seeing a doctor and yet I was able to go out there and handle it effectively enough.  

Edited by AlexCanada, 03 June 2015 - 04:26 AM.

[Duchykins]

Theanine is sorcery. Magnesium, potassium, a b complex with only active Bs (theyre harder to find but swansons makes the best ive found yet, very pleased with it) Some of the Pukka and Yogi tea blends are amazing my favs are Three Ginger, Relax, Refesh from Pukka; Calming, Honey Lavnder Stress Relief, St Johns wort Blues Away from Yogi. Yogi also has kava tea but I tend to steer clear of it. be careful of what teas you get because most of the major household brands have been found with pesticide reside, heavy metals absorbed though the soil depending where their crops are grown, etc. My husband works at starbucks and used to bring boxes of tazo blends until he found out tazo wss one of the worst offenders of contaminated tea

Edited by Duchykins, 13 June 2015 - 06:29 AM.