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A good red wine extract without green tea or knotweed?

resveratrol red wine extract

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#1 TheFountain

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 12:13 AM


I am having a difficult time finding a red wine extract without knotweed added for the resveratrol portion and green tea added for some reason. Can the red wine polyphenols not stand on their own two feet? Do they need green tea to constantly be present too? I ask because I don't want any stimulant effect from the caffeine in the green tea extract. Maybe that is why people complain about a stimulant effect from pure red wine extract, and they blame it on the grapeseed? 


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#2 TheFountain

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 09:27 PM

Incase anybody else is wondering, I found one by Doctors best that has 'Biovin' which is some french wine patented extract. And the resveratrol comes from the extract itself not knotweed. I am just sick of Revgenetics constantly having then not having products, changing it so only people willing to pay no less than 30$ a month can get their resveratrol. They use to have one for 13.99 a month which was perfect. 


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#3 AlexCanada

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 11:03 AM

The knotweed in a 50% trans resveratrol content may have been responsible for lasting joint issues and some collagen loss on my face that I suffered.    The cost of quality is quite high though :(



#4 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 04:17 PM

Incase anybody else is wondering, I found one by Doctors best that has 'Biovin' which is some french wine patented extract. And the resveratrol comes from the extract itself not knotweed. I am just sick of Revgenetics constantly having then not having products, changing it so only people willing to pay no less than 30$ a month can get their resveratrol. They use to have one for 13.99 a month which was perfect. 

 

 

TheFountain,

 

grape or "Red Wine" resveratrol is usually provided in very low purities. By now, you know who I am as I represent the company you mentioned in your post above. Here is a little history so that you can understand how the quality and pricing has evolved.

 

======================================================

 

1- Out first product was a 1000 mg capsule with 500mg of pure trans-resveratrol, and yes we where the first to provide that amount in a capsule... I don't care if Biotivia says they did it, we can prove otherwise since the all the material being sold at that time has only a 50% max on purity (later we made a 300mg capsule which we have discontinued)

 

Now the issue has always been emodin, as too much of it could cause the runs. Some older people liked the regularity that a little emodin provided, however most of the younger crowd just didn't like this regularity at all. That is why we started providing 99% pure resveratrol to avoid all that issue that some had with emodin. 

 

2- We produced the X500 which is 500mg per capsule of pure white Trans-Reveratrol (now in an enteric capsule)

 

That said, we then saw that micronized resveratrol (at 1-1.5 microns) was absorbed two times better according to the Sirtris data we have. It is because of this that we ended up producing the capsules with 500 mg of Micronized Resveratrol. Let's get one thing straight... this micronization process is done solely within the United States, it has been impossible to duplicate from any source outside of the United States.

 

3- Our Micronized 500 mg capsules has Micronized Resveratrol at 1.5 Microns encapsulated in vegetarian capsules.

 

At this time, Megaresveratrol can not match this micronized material as they state that their resveratrol is 2.5 microns which is close to double that of what we produce, however I suspect it is actually 7.5 microns to 10 Microns because we have tested two resveratrol sources from china (one of which told us that they supplied MegaResveratrol and Longevinex with micronized resveratrol). The particle analysis is attached and as you can see, both chinese "Micronized" batches have an average size of between 7.5 and 10 microns. 

 

Attached File  Chinese-res-2013.png   210.48KB   5 downloads     Attached File  Chinese-res-2016.png   372.75KB   5 downloads    

 

Now, I have been tempted to purchase the Chinese Resveratrol and call it Micronized just to sell it to you guys cheaper since many here apparently like cheap res over quality. But the truth of the matter is that we would be reducing the quality that American made micronized resveratrol provides us and used in many of the university resveratrol studies. It is because of this that I am hard pressed to do that at this time.

 

Now because of the same Sirtris data, we then made our resveratrol & tween capsule that uses tween emulsification to increase the resveratrol absorption by up to 10 fold.

 

4- Our Micronized Resvertrol and tween capsule is born. 

 

Lastly... Our Polydatin capsules. Some call this stuff "Time-released" resveratrol others simply say it lasts longer activating SIRT 1 than resveratrol, while still others know it is more water soluble than resveratrol and therefore absorbed better. Two studies show it creates a synergy with resveratrol to boot... Whatever the story you have heard, Polydatin is one of those molecules that has not received the attention it deserves and still relatively unknown to the general public.

 

5- We create the first 500 mg Polydatin capsules because of it's synergy with Resveratrol.

 

======================================================

 

People like cheap, I get it TheFountain.

 

People will go to Wallmart and purchase cheap and throw quality under the bus, I have seen it. They will go to Amazon and buy a cheap product, believing the quality is there... just because it's on Amazon, only to be purchasing stuff that amounts to dirt. I actually went out and tested an Amazon product to prove my point here: http://goo.gl/jlmmpk

 

Well fine...

 

If you want a $13.99 product, let me see if I can make one without all the bells and whistles. Now If I do make it, it will not be pure (and more like the old R300 we used to make) it will only be sold on autoship as I would be stripping all the marketing dollars from it.

 

How does that sound TheFountain?


Edited by Anthony_Loera, 01 April 2016 - 04:19 PM.


#5 TheFountain

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 04:51 PM

 

Incase anybody else is wondering, I found one by Doctors best that has 'Biovin' which is some french wine patented extract. And the resveratrol comes from the extract itself not knotweed. I am just sick of Revgenetics constantly having then not having products, changing it so only people willing to pay no less than 30$ a month can get their resveratrol. They use to have one for 13.99 a month which was perfect. 

 

 

TheFountain,

 

grape or "Red Wine" resveratrol is usually provided in very low purities. By now, you know who I am as I represent the company you mentioned in your post above. Here is a little history so that you can understand how the quality and pricing has evolved.

 

======================================================

 

1- Out first product was a 1000 mg capsule with 500mg of pure trans-resveratrol, and yes we where the first to provide that amount in a capsule... I don't care if Biotivia says they did it, we can prove otherwise since the all the material being sold at that time has only a 50% max on purity (later we made a 300mg capsule which we have discontinued)

 

Now the issue has always been emodin, as too much of it could cause the runs. Some older people liked the regularity that a little emodin provided, however most of the younger crowd just didn't like this regularity at all. That is why we started providing 99% pure resveratrol to avoid all that issue that some had with emodin. 

 

2- We produced the X500 which is 500mg per capsule of pure white Trans-Reveratrol (now in an enteric capsule)

 

That said, we then saw that micronized resveratrol (at 1-1.5 microns) was absorbed two times better according to the Sirtris data we have. It is because of this that we ended up producing the capsules with 500 mg of Micronized Resveratrol. Let's get one thing straight... this micronization process is done solely within the United States, it has been impossible to duplicate from any source outside of the United States.

 

3- Our Micronized 500 mg capsules has Micronized Resveratrol at 1.5 Microns encapsulated in vegetarian capsules.

 

At this time, Megaresveratrol can not match this micronized material as they state that their resveratrol is 2.5 microns which is close to double that of what we produce, however I suspect it is actually 7.5 microns to 10 Microns because we have tested two resveratrol sources from china (one of which told us that they supplied MegaResveratrol and Longevinex with micronized resveratrol). The particle analysis is attached and as you can see, both chinese "Micronized" batches have an average size of between 7.5 and 10 microns. 

 

attachicon.gifChinese-res-2013.png     attachicon.gifChinese-res-2016.png    

 

Now, I have been tempted to purchase the Chinese Resveratrol and call it Micronized just to sell it to you guys cheaper since many here apparently like cheap res over quality. But the truth of the matter is that we would be reducing the quality that American made micronized resveratrol provides us and used in many of the university resveratrol studies. It is because of this that I am hard pressed to do that at this time.

 

Now because of the same Sirtris data, we then made our resveratrol & tween capsule that uses tween emulsification to increase the resveratrol absorption by up to 10 fold.

 

4- Our Micronized Resvertrol and tween capsule is born. 

 

Lastly... Our Polydatin capsules. Some call this stuff "Time-released" resveratrol others simply say it lasts longer activating SIRT 1 than resveratrol, while still others know it is more water soluble than resveratrol and therefore absorbed better. Two studies show it creates a synergy with resveratrol to boot... Whatever the story you have heard, Polydatin is one of those molecules that has not received the attention it deserves and still relatively unknown to the general public.

 

5- We create the first 500 mg Polydatin capsules because of it's synergy with Resveratrol.

 

======================================================

 

People like cheap, I get it TheFountain.

 

People will go to Wallmart and purchase cheap and throw quality under the bus, I have seen it. They will go to Amazon and buy a cheap product, believing the quality is there... just because it's on Amazon, only to be purchasing stuff that amounts to dirt. I actually went out and tested an Amazon product to prove my point here: http://goo.gl/jlmmpk

 

Well fine...

 

If you want a $13.99 product, let me see if I can make one without all the bells and whistles. Now If I do make it, it will not be pure (and more like the old R300 we used to make) it will only be sold on autoship as I would be stripping all the marketing dollars from it.

 

How does that sound TheFountain?

 

 

Have you heard of Powdercity?

 

They have a bulk 99% trans-resveratrol product i've been using that the manufacturer says is made synthetically and that this means emodin is never an issue. 

 

Any thoughts?



#6 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 05:20 PM

 

 

They have a bulk 99% trans-resveratrol product i've been using that the manufacturer says is made synthetically and that this means emodin is never an issue.

 

First off, the 99% resveratrol we have has no issues with emodin. Heck even the 50% resveratrol with less than 2% emodin is used by lots of people without any issues.

 

Now let's talk about synthetic stuff... There is expensive synthetic stuff made in Germany (which is retarded since the 99% plant base stuff is as pure as the synthetic German stuff) and there is the synthetic stuff made in china.

 

The last time we tested synthetic from China you are right the emodin was not an issue... but we believed the residual solvent Toulene was...

 

Attached File  Screenshot 2016-04-01 13.03.46.png   218.52KB   12 downloads  Attached File  Screenshot 2016-04-01 13.07.20.png   122.36KB   6 downloads

 

We actually tested Synthetic Resveratrol For Lots Of Things... because frankly lots of things can be left in as residual solvents in a synthetic product.

 

But hey... if you and others don't mind Toulene or other residual solvents that NOBODY currently tests for when importing synthetic stuff... then great... let's do a poll and see if this stuff is acceptable. Now If it isn't acceptable, then there is no reason I would make it.

 

Hell, I wouldn't give it to my family or the dog, unless I knew it was clean, as we all take resveratrol. 

 

The expensive German synthetic stuff... is expensive, so no cost savings there. I have spoken to the Germans many times over the years and they hate me because I keep telling them to lower their price.

 

 

A

 


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#7 TheFountain

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 07:30 AM

 

 

 

They have a bulk 99% trans-resveratrol product i've been using that the manufacturer says is made synthetically and that this means emodin is never an issue.

 

First off, the 99% resveratrol we have has no issues with emodin. Heck even the 50% resveratrol with less than 2% emodin is used by lots of people without any issues.

 

Now let's talk about synthetic stuff... There is expensive synthetic stuff made in Germany (which is retarded since the 99% plant base stuff is as pure as the synthetic German stuff) and there is the synthetic stuff made in china.

 

The last time we tested synthetic from China you are right the emodin was not an issue... but we believed the residual solvent Toulene was...

 

attachicon.gifScreenshot 2016-04-01 13.03.46.png  attachicon.gifScreenshot 2016-04-01 13.07.20.png

 

We actually tested Synthetic Resveratrol For Lots Of Things... because frankly lots of things can be left in as residual solvents in a synthetic product.

 

But hey... if you and others don't mind Toulene or other residual solvents that NOBODY currently tests for when importing synthetic stuff... then great... let's do a poll and see if this stuff is acceptable. Now If it isn't acceptable, then there is no reason I would make it.

 

Hell, I wouldn't give it to my family or the dog, unless I knew it was clean, as we all take resveratrol. 

 

The expensive German synthetic stuff... is expensive, so no cost savings there. I have spoken to the Germans many times over the years and they hate me because I keep telling them to lower their price.

 

 

A

 

Was this specifically powdercity's brand you tested? 

 

 



#8 Never_Ending

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 03:40 PM

I think many of them don't contain green tea , but knotweed is hard to avoid.   Is there any Specific reason to be against knotweed ? I mean it's still a source of resveratrol.



#9 maxwatt

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 04:41 PM

Here's one extracted from grape skin and pulp, 30% polyphenols.

http://www.swansonvi...00-mg-90-caps 

Maybe some grape seed, but more pulp and skin.



#10 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 04:53 PM

 

 

 

 

They have a bulk 99% trans-resveratrol product i've been using that the manufacturer says is made synthetically and that this means emodin is never an issue.

 

First off, the 99% resveratrol we have has no issues with emodin. Heck even the 50% resveratrol with less than 2% emodin is used by lots of people without any issues.

 

Now let's talk about synthetic stuff... There is expensive synthetic stuff made in Germany (which is retarded since the 99% plant base stuff is as pure as the synthetic German stuff) and there is the synthetic stuff made in china.

 

The last time we tested synthetic from China you are right the emodin was not an issue... but we believed the residual solvent Toulene was...

 

attachicon.gifScreenshot 2016-04-01 13.03.46.png  attachicon.gifScreenshot 2016-04-01 13.07.20.png

 

We actually tested Synthetic Resveratrol For Lots Of Things... because frankly lots of things can be left in as residual solvents in a synthetic product.

 

But hey... if you and others don't mind Toulene or other residual solvents that NOBODY currently tests for when importing synthetic stuff... then great... let's do a poll and see if this stuff is acceptable. Now If it isn't acceptable, then there is no reason I would make it.

 

Hell, I wouldn't give it to my family or the dog, unless I knew it was clean, as we all take resveratrol. 

 

The expensive German synthetic stuff... is expensive, so no cost savings there. I have spoken to the Germans many times over the years and they hate me because I keep telling them to lower their price.

 

 

A

 

Was this specifically powdercity's brand you tested? 

 

 

 

No TheFountain, I stated "The last time we tested synthetic from China" which makes the cheap stuff. I also stated Germany had good synthetic but theirs was extremely expensive compared to the plant based resveratrol. 

 

Summary:

German Synthetic Res (Expensive but Clean) -> Plant Based Resveratrol (Inexpensive and Clean) -> Chinese Synthetic Res (Super Cheap But Has Issues With Residual Solvents)

 

If you are a proponent of a particular store or brand, then it is up to you to make sure they are selling you stuff that is safe... How? I would ask those that specifically sell synthetic for a COA that includes residual solvents. 

 

If they give you one without Residual Solvents.. then they simply never tested for them.

 

I have been in this business too long to see how companies order stuff. Heck my company was in business 7 years before the company you talk about was even a twinkle of an eye of its founder. I have seen how people limit their tests to safely remain ignorant... just for a quick buck. 

 

Do your homework... we did, and we didn't like what we saw.

 

A


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#11 gomesbs

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 10:35 PM

Hello,

I'm no expert, but isn't the daily concentration limit ppm for toluene 8900 (1g)? The chinese tested res had around 32 ppm... What kind of risks are associated to the batch dosage?

Thanks
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#12 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 02:47 AM

Hello,

I'm no expert, but isn't the daily concentration limit ppm for toluene 8900 (1g)? The chinese tested res had around 32 ppm... What kind of risks are associated to the batch dosage?

Thanks

 

Per the EPA:

 

The EPA has recommended a drinking water guideline value of 1 mg/L for toluene. OSHA has set a legal limit for workers of 200 ppm for toluene in air averaged over an 8-hour workday. NIOSH has set a recommended limit of 100 ppm for toluene in air averaged over a 10-hour workday. ACGIH recommends that toluene in workplace air not exceed 20 ppm (average levels over 8 hours).

 

Per the CDC.gov site:

 

Headaches, dizziness, or unconsciousness. However, effects such as incoordination, cognitive impairment, and vision and hearing loss may become permanent with repeated exposure, especially at concentrations associated with intentional solvent abuse. High levels of toluene exposure during pregnancy, such as those associated with solvent abuse, may lead to retardation of mental abilities and growth in children. Other health effects of potential concern may include immune, kidney, liver, and reproductive effects.

 

Single exposures to toluene or repeated exposures over a few weeks can cause headaches and sleepiness, and can impair your ability to think clearly. Whether or not toluene does this to you depends on the amount you take in, how long you are exposed, and your genetic susceptibility and age. One very dangerous activity is to expose yourself to a large amount of toluene in a short time by deliberately inhaling/sniffing paint or glue. At first, you will feel light-headed. If exposure continues, you can become dizzy, sleepy, or unconscious, and you might even die. Toluene causes death by interfering with the way you breathe and the way your heart beats. When exposure is stopped, the sleepiness and dizziness will go away and you will feel normal again.

 

Low to moderate, day-after-day exposure to toluene in your workplace can cause tiredness, confusion, weakness, drunken-type actions, memory loss, nausea, and loss of appetite. These symptoms usually disappear when exposure is stopped. You may experience some hearing and color vision loss after long-term daily exposure to toluene in the workplace. Combinations of toluene and some common medicines like aspirin and acetaminophen may increase the effects of toluene on your hearing. Researchers do not know if the low levels of toluene that you breathe at work will cause any permanent effects on your brain or body after many years. If you choose to repeatedly breathe in toluene from glue or paint thinners, you may permanently damage your brain. You may also experience problems with your speech, vision, or hearing, have loss of muscle control, loss of memory, poor balance, and decreased mental ability.

 

Some studies in people have shown reproductive effects, such as an increased risk of spontaneous abortions, from exposure to toluene in the workplace. However, other factors, such as exposure to other chemicals, smoking, and alcohol use, may have affected the results of the studies, so it is not possible to say whether toluene has reproductive effects in people. Additionally, exposure to high levels of toluene could possibly damage your kidneys and liver.

 

The effects of toluene on animals are similar to those seen in humans. The main effect of toluene is on the brain and nervous system, but animals exposed to moderate or high levels of toluene also show harmful effects in their liver, kidneys, and lungs and impaired immune function. Animal studies do not indicate that toluene exposure results in reproductive effects.

 

Studies in workers and animals exposed to toluene generally indicate that toluene is not carcinogenic (cancer-causing). The International Agency for Research on Cancer determined that toluene is not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity in humans (Group 3). The U.S. EPA determined there is inadequate information to assess the carcinogenic potential of toluene. The American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists determined that toluene is not classifiable as a human carcinogen (A4). The U.S. National Toxicology Program has not considered the carcinogenic potential of toluene.



#13 TheFountain

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 07:12 PM

I will email powdercity and ask about residual solvents. 


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#14 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 08:29 PM

I will email powdercity and ask about residual solvents. 

 

 

Awesome!

 

A



#15 maxwatt

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Posted 08 April 2016 - 10:59 PM

There are two kinds of synthetic resveratrol.  The true synthetics made from chemical precursors (such as Orchid, from India, use in Sinclair's early studies) and those made from yeast which has been modified to produce resveratrol. I am not familiar with the process whereby resveratrol is purified from the yeast culture, but would be surprised to find more than ethanol and possibly hexane as residues.  The other chemicals I would expect to see in the true synthetics.


Edited by maxwatt, 09 April 2016 - 01:40 AM.


#16 chipdouglas

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 06:34 PM

How safe is Megaresveratrol ? Judging by what Anthony has posted, it's not completely safe. 



#17 geo12the

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 05:14 PM

The product I have been using for a while is Resvida which is synthetic. My spouse and I were having terrible tendon issues on the ultra pure (99%) resveratrol isolated from knotweed. They have vanished since we switched to resvida. 

 

http://www.dsm.com/m...ls/resvida.html

 

Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2011 Jan;1215:131-7. doi: 10.1111/j.1749-6632.2010.05855.x.
Safety of resveratrol with examples for high purity, trans-resveratrol, resVida(®).
Abstract

Studies with resVida(®) (a high purity trans-resveratrol) show that trans-resveratrol is a substance of low oral toxicity. An acceptable daily intake (ADI) in food of 450 mg/day has been defined, a level well beyond natural dietary intake of trans-resveratrol. The ADI was based on no-observed-adverse-effect-levels (NOAELs) of 750 mg/kg bw/day in 13-week developmental toxicity studies by the dietary route and a standard safety margin of 100. In studies by gavage, the kidney and bladder are target organs at very high dosages (2,000-3,000 mg/kg bw/day). Six-month studies in rat and rabbit models show no significant increase in toxicity in comparison to 4-week studies. Lower quoted NOAELs in gavage studies (ca. 300 mg/kg bw/day) potentially reflect more rapid bioavailability, but different dosage regimes complicate comparisons. Short-term studies show no genotoxicity in vivo. A 6-month mouse carcinogenicity model showed no increase in tumors. Clinical data support an ADI of at least 450 mg/day, and kinetic data from the DSM 13-week toxicity study also support the expectation of no increase in toxicity with longer term intake.

 



#18 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 08:53 PM

Hi again,

 

ReVida is an expensive synthetic. I haven't found a low price ResVida product that beats natural resveratrol prices.

 

Tell you what, let me reach out to my DSM contact (yet again) and ask.

I have known the DSM folks since 2008... when I first told them they were way too expensive...

 

A



#19 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 06:37 PM

Hi everyone,

 

I got the price back from DSM and just as I have suspected, they haven't lowered their price much...

The price is over $720 a kg, and you need to buy close to half a ton a year.... which basically makes any resveratrol product using it much more expensive.

 

Sorry but in my opinion as a manufacturer of high quality resveratrol products since 2007, you will not save money with synthetic Resvida when you compare it to natural resveratrol products.

 

So... sorry, I prefer natural resveratrol for lots of different business and health reasons.

 

A



#20 hav

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 06:34 PM

Don't see any moisture readings in the COA's Anthony posted. Would vacuum drying purge Toluene along with any moisture?  I sometimes do my own extractions with Vector high purity Butane and vacuum dry overnight to remove that solvent.

 

Howard

 


Edited by hav, 23 April 2016 - 06:35 PM.

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#21 TheFountain

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 05:23 PM

PowderCity now includes a reading of all the residuals of their bulk powders right on the outside of the label.

 

Also, they seem to be having a huge liquidation sale on their main website. Not sure what is going on there, or with their business but yea. 



#22 maxwatt

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 01:41 AM

Powder City is being sued due to a death of a teenage customer who used one of their products.  Probably forcing them out of business.

 

http://www.longecity...ss/#entry809140


Edited by maxwatt, 17 March 2017 - 01:44 AM.

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#23 chipdouglas

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:28 AM

Powder City is being sued due to a death of a teenage customer who used one of their products.  Probably forcing them out of business.

 

http://www.longecity...ss/#entry809140

 

This sheds light as to the reason why they're being forced out of business. However, I cannot say I'm all that surprised.  



#24 hazy

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 07:25 PM

can this guy's death really put them out of business? their material clearly states not for human consumption. nobody is going to get a settlement out of this, or can they....


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#25 Geoffrey

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 05:17 PM

A court of law isn't going to buy the standard "Not for human consumption" disclaimer, when all these "supplement" companies clearly market their products on the basis of effects which no-one would be interested in for their pet chimpanzees. So, noopept will help your pet chimpanzee to concentrate harder on her homework, and remember information more clearly. And your depressed hamster clearly needs to take NSI-189 because it will help him with his depression... 


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#26 fntms

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 09:52 PM

Isn't there some kind of loophole in the US which allows all the peptide sites to sell their products if they are labeled as research chemicals and with potentially lethal side effects if ingested ? No such thing seems possible in the EU.
At any rate my latest order from Nootropic Source came with a 1 page disclaimer...





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: resveratrol, red wine extract

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